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How much does poor grammar turn you off? (self.intj)
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submitted 3 years ago by BBtheRipper
Back I am to those mostly depressing online dating websites. Oi. Would it be conceited / arrogant to just not respond to someone who lists themselves as a teacher and writes like this: "I def agree that we have a lot in common & ur close - that's a huge plus! Would luv to chat further & meet up one of these days 4 drinks. :) Hope to hear back...." "I'll text/call u 2mro ur free..." "If ur free*. Meant to say earlier. Typo lol" Am I an asshole for feeling instantly turned off by this lack of grammar coming from a teacher? That one's a 96% match with me based on 333 of the same questions answered - so, apparently our morality, interests, goals, etc are very similar... Huh. 70 comments
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[–] CaptainCrutches INTJ 19 points 3 years ago
I tend to agree... A lot of the time I'll think less of someone's intelligence, education, or language proficiency if they don't take the time to type properly. It actually takes significantly more concentration to read abbreviated text-speak, and I find myself going a word at a time like a first-grader would plod through a reading assignment. I could be engaged in a roleplay or conversation and be totally immersed, whether it's adventure, diplomacy, sex, whatever... and then someone types "your" or "ur" instead of "you're" and it's an instant mood-killer for me. I try to look past it, but it just throws off my groove, so to speak, and gets me shaking my head for a few seconds.
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Welcome to /r/INTJ. This sub is open to all types. Flair up! Check the /r/INTJ rules and FAQ before posting. We have a Wiki, too. INTJ Links: INTJ Personality Type - a well-written and consistent
Can't speak to dating sites as I've never tried those, but I think I would react similarly to you. I value communication skills, and I count description of the INTJ type and its functions. legible typing among them, especially for adults who should know better. Rational Portrait of the Mastermind - an alternative permalink
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[–] [deleted] 34 points 3 years ago
Am I an asshole for feeling instantly turned off
Cognitive functions test - a test that calculates your most likely type based on function usage and developmental states.
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[–] SenorWorkman INTP 15 points 3 years ago
I HATE text speech like the examples you gave, and when people mess up on things like your vs you're, their, they're, there etc. I have by no means perfected my own grammatical skills but using the wrong form of a word really gets under my skin, it's so easy to learn how to do it correctly! I don't mind the abbreviations "lol" "jk" "brb" "idk" or small common stuff like that, but the "c u 2mro" "ur" makes me want to invade Poland or something.
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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago
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[–] Shibboleeth INTJ 6 points 3 years ago
I'm a technical writer. I'd say 98% of my job is fixing errors other technical writers have introduced to my documentation. I deeply sympathize with your pain. permalink
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MBTI in general - MBTI [–] TurtleSmile1 INTJ 7 points 3 years ago
NT “Rationals” - ENTP | INTP | ENTJ | INTJ
Perhaps it's a little bit short-sighted of you. Is it really a deal breaker if someone types with bad grammar? I find it annoying. I don't see the allure of typing poorly. It's unprofessional, unnecessary, and unhelpful. But is it enough so that you're willing to give up the best match you have? That sounds rhetorical, but as I put myself in your spot, I can see your displeasure. My first interaction with this girl will be of me hating how she types because it's stupid. However, it might help you loosen up and let other people live how they wanna live. It's not a moral issue. It's relatively insignificant considering how difficult it is to find a suitable mate. I guess it's up to you. If you really want to, you can let her know that it bothers you and ask her to change. If she won't change, move on, and if she does, go for it.
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 2 points 3 years ago*
That's my thoughts as well, TurtleSmile1 - it's possible she prefers shorthand type of text to save time, rather than someone who won't take the time to make a decent first impression insofar as an online dating site. So it raises a red flag, but I'll keep an openmind for now, despite poor grammar coming from someone who apparently is a teacher as a first impression. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 3 points 3 years ago
It gives away an image of laziness / sloppiness. If she can't be bothered to type correctly to make a good impression she probably won't be an interesting person. It is somehow even worse if she does not realize it does make a bad impression. I would remark her on it then I would probably let her go if she does not change anything but I am a judgemental asshole. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Hehe, ditto qukiuti. A woman I was seeing for 5 years would comment from time-to-time that I'm the nicest asshole. Apparently, she found it charming in some way, or she'd not have kept me for 5 years (looks like Catherine Zeta Jones, fun, smart, and sexier than any human ought to be allowed). Being a "judgmental asshole" seems to be a similar trait amongst many INTJs. (as per page 19, Solutions, at http://www.true.co.za/downloads/mbti/intj.pdf ) permalink
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[–] kairisika 5 points 3 years ago
Completely and totally. I have zero tolerance for poor grammar (consistent - everyone makes errors and typos), and I'll only consider not looking down on you for chatspeak if you're still using a flip-phone with T9. This person comes off as an idiot or a child, and that would kill it for me. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 3 points 3 years ago
Here's a haunting thought....the person teaching your kids.....is on an online dating website.....and types like this. You're welcome. permalink
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[–] kairisika 2 points 3 years ago
Not my kids, I assure you.. but the total failure of the school system is hardly news. permalink
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[–] sloby 3 points 3 years ago
Alot :) permalink
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[–] TheWiseTroll 3 points 3 years ago
As it becomes increasingly incomprehensible, I become more Irate. Language is only functional when it can actually convey a message. permalink
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[–] brutallyhonestharvey INTJ 2 points 3 years ago
Never has the expression "Those who can't do, teach," been so appropriate. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 2 points 3 years ago
Hahaha! Great point, brutallyhonestharvey. Hahaha. permalink
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[–] Liddl INTJ 2 points 3 years ago
It's an instant turn off for me too. I don't even understand how people can text it anymore, it would be really annoying to teach the damn autocorrect on the phone all that crap. I keep having to teach mine possessives. It's thing's not thing ' s! Pebble is a word, phone! Maybe the just turn it off. What were we talking about? permalink
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[–] MadDogTannen 2 points 3 years ago
I'm pretty sensitive to bad grammar. It's not that I'm trying to be judgmental, but it just stands out to me and I find it hard to ignore. We all have our sensitivities. I have no fashion sense, and I'm sure there are some people who can't help but notice when I'm wearing something that doesn't match. I'm just not that sensitive to colors and patterns the way I am with words. As for the text speak, that's another issue entirely in my opinion. Personally, I would find it immature, but I'm also approaching 40 and most people in my age group don't write like that, so you kind of wonder about the ones who do. permalink
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[–] score_ 2 points 3 years ago
I used to, but not anymore. After having lived in the two extremes of the northeast and Deep South US growing up, I realized that things that sounded weird to me growing up, e.g., y'all, started to sound normal after becoming immersed in southern culture, and it was the "you guys" that started to sound strange. I started to realize that successful communication doesn't depend on correct grammar, but rather being relatable to your intended audience. What cemented this concept for me was Tobias Wolff's short story, A Bullet in the Brain. Now I write and speak in a way that I find enjoyable, be it grammatically correct or not. And I realize that many other people may be doing the same. I have way too much other important shit to worry about to get bent outta shape over how someone writes or speaks. permalink
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[–] kairisika 1 point 3 years ago
but rather being relatable to your intended audience. If your intended audience is fellow adults, don't type like a twelve-year-old. permalink
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[–] InformalCriticism INTJ 2 points 3 years ago
You should stomach it. She sounds younger, and that's just how younger people learned they were allowed to communicate on electronics. They didn't have any transition from written proper English to electronic written English. If I had to guess, a thoughtful youth might even say that it's like electronic English is a different language, much like book language, or spoken word will be a different format. If I were you, and I was physically attracted to her, I would find out more about her and weigh options after all the important information is gathered. If she's too dumb and that's a deal breaker, then you can get on with your life. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 years ago
She sounds younger, and that's just how younger people learned I resent that stereotype so much. I have yet to meet an over-50 who can type properly at all on the internet, and most of the people I know who use clunky text-speak (and there's an obvious difference between what she wrote and the actual lingo and shorthand that a 17 year old would use; their writing goes through trends just like everything else) like that are older than 35. There seems to be a written literacy drop-off around that age even though they're supposed to be better educated than us. permalink
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[–] InformalCriticism INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
The same logic applied to old people makes sense to me. If you're old, and you're given a device on which to communicate English, but you didn't grow up or learn it like Millenials have, then you're probably going to go the path of least resistance and look like you're 13. I see old people use shorthand typing a lot, too. I don't like it, but I understand it; it's just how people who didn't grow up during the tech boom learned it. permalink
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[–] leper99 1 point 3 years ago
I have yet to meet an over-50 who can type properly at all on the internet Come see me next year when I'm over 50. Text-speak drives me absolutely crazy. Misplaced/missing apostrophes and incorrect homonym usage, not to mention that damned lose/loose thing, make me agree with /u/SenorWorkman about wanting to invade Poland. No one seems to know how to spell anymore (Pepperidge Farm remembers!). I hear people say the 140 character limit on Twitter imposes contraints on how they can disseminate their message, but really? Send a second message containing the other half, FFS. :) The age 35 cutoff you mention is somewhat true for many. It's at this age where you you start encountering people who didn't grow up with computers in their lives. Spelling aside, it's pretty obvious they are not comfortable with technology; it's something they are forced to endure. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 years ago*
It's entirely possible that this group of people assumes this is how you're supposed to speak on the internet in messages, and have changed their cadence to reflect such. Maybe she's not dumb and simply doesn't know better. A lesser version of this debate comes up between me and a friend while chatting on Facebook -- I use no punctuation at all except for commas and apostrophes, but still maintain spelling. He uses the full set of correct writing. As I've told him, it's not that I'm being intentionally obtuse, and I'm certainly not too dumb to understand what punctuation is, but rather it's easier for me to type like that in text chat scenarios and I've already adjusted to that being the 'standard' on the internet (think of places like IRC rooms: the people who insist on full sentences stand out like sore thumbs). If she doesn't spend too much time on the internet she might not know the proper protocol, and for someone who doesn't spend all day on here, it's an extremely subtle thing to catch onto. Proper grammar in static messages, unless you're close and it's a quick message, and non-proper punctuation in instant messages, and what about texting? If she's browsing on her phone she may not even know the difference between all of these in a technical sense, let alone recognize it. As another example to the standard that exist on different sites and contexts, you saying each user's name in your reply would throw a lot of people off and be seen as unusual -- probably not exactly the same as you being annoyed by shitty writing but still. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It annoys me too but I've given it some thought. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Thanks Doctor_Zhivago. I've replied to her via email, and she sent me the same type of shitty writing via cell phone texting. While it's an initial turn-off, I'll give it a chance to hear what she's like via verbal communication, and then perhaps meet her in person. It'll be interesting to note if this kind of grammar translates to similar characteristics in person. Perhaps some graduate student in an English Dept or Social Media Dept has done that dissertation. permalink
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[–] midnightlover9 ENFP 1 point 3 years ago
Typing on a phone sucks with the predictive text and the fact that it's just faster to type on a keyboard. But if I'm excited to respond, then I will do it, and it will be pretty brief. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 years ago
depends on context. if it's a close friend "eta 10m" I actually prefer that. but if it's professional or people I don't know I type things out a bit more. if it's something serious that needs to be discussed... well they just lost a large part of their argument already. permalink
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[–] _libertine_ INTJ 4 points 3 years ago
Hugely. I have tweeted authors about poor grammar in their articles. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 1 point 3 years ago
so, apparently our morality, interests, goals, etc are very similar... Huh. She's also a liar. /u/BBtheRipper you need to run in the opposite direction at the speed of light. permalink
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[–] MerryGoWrong INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
The only time the answer would be "no" is if it is someone whose native language isn't English. permalink
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[–] annesthesia 1 point 3 years ago
I usually put up with it if it's a text or something. At least in your example, she/he punctuated okay, so you know he/she's not a total idiot. But yes it DEFINITELY turns me off. Especially in professional settings. permalink
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[–] GrownBravy INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
Going against the grain here, but if I can make out what they're saying, it's not a big deal for me. I abbreviate and truncate all the time when I'm on my phone because i feel what's said is more important than how. Now on a dating site, it can go both ways. Childish messages over childish topics or that pendantic i've-got-to-make-my-MFA-inwriting-mean-something-to-me strict adherence over really laid back topics kinda turns me off. Maybe I'm looking for someone more flexible, or maybe I'm really not attracted to that Holden Caulfield-like behavior at all. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Holden Caulfield. Right, GrownBravy. I'm not refuting with you as to my perhaps being the nicest asshole. While it's sometimes easier for others to judge one's self as to what is and is not socially acceptable, I likely am a very nice asshole. The last woman I had a relationship with (lasted a year), told me that she loves me and thinks I'm the best thing that may have ever happened to her within 2 weeks of meeting me. 0.o It was a bit of an asshole thing for me to say to her that I loved her, as just a friend, as that's all 2 weeks could muster in me. shrug. She turned out to be even more an asshole than me, which worked out well at that time. The homemade make-up batches of cookies made up for her offensiveness. permalink
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[–] vogon_poem_lover INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
I would only be slightly bothered had I received the message you posted on such a site. The context is informal and it's likely they've become accustomed to writing that way as a result of using a mobile device. In the past it was somewhat understandable to want to abbreviate and shorten your text messages as much as possible when using a mobile device due to unwieldy input devices and limits on message size or data caps. This has led to a generation that find it completely acceptable to converse in that manner. That said, when people use such language when using other devices with full keyboards and no text/data limits issues or when communicating in that manner in a professional capacity, then I find it much more bothersome. permalink
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[–] nmss INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
My best friend types like this and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. permalink
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[–] CeeDiddy82 INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
This conflicts me. I have judged people on how they text, but I have a friend who's pretty much the smartest person I know and in med school who uses "txt spk". I guess it never hurts to get to know the person, but it is definitely hard to get past things like that. permalink
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[–] sporkpdx INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
I've found out that I don't really get along with people that "typ lik dis" for more reasons than just their poor language skills. At one point I went on a date with someone who couldn't construct a real sentence to save her life, as it turns out she was also an educator and disliked reading(!!). Um, no thanks. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Thanks for the input, sporkpdx. Hahaha, that's funny - "couldn't construct a real sentence to save her life, as it turns out she was also an educator..." Hopefully she taught something like Chemistry or Physics, and Not English! Haha. permalink
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[–] sporkpdx INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
Sadly at the time she was substituting and aiming to become a full-time elementary school teacher. =\ permalink
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[–] midnightlover9 ENFP 1 point 3 years ago
GIGGLES!!! You sound like my INTJ friend when she complains about the people on online dating sites. :x It's her gripe, too. She will also read me all the guy's listed information/interests/bio, while judging, and be like "can you really trust a person is all these traits when they type like this?!?!" I understand first meeting time is when most people try to present themselves at their best, because there's little background information to make a decision regarding them--even I am shocked when people type terrible, at least at first--so you expect more formality. I will consider whether it's actually horrible grammar and spelling because the person doesn't know or whether they are short cuts. Like "luv" and "2mro," but I will admit "ur" does grate only because that doesn't translate well to your/you're and I have to think a tiny bit more to get past it. Haha. I also consider content. I mean, some of my INTJ friends use "wut," "wat," "gaems," "bored" instead of "board" games, all the time; it isn't standard English, but a part of their personality/intonation...in my head, I read it in their voice, too. Haha. Makes me giggle. So I wouldn't necessarily write a person off if they wrote something in a non-traditional way, because certain spellings and capitalization has a different emotional nuance and intonation, or at least in my head, when I read it. LoL. Then again, writing like a kid can detract from taking a person seriously, I used 2 type lyk dis all da tyme (n i suppose it wud drive my INTJ friends crazy) in high school, but they were still my friends probably because they saw in class I wasn't retarded. :x :D I didn't do the capital-lower-case-capital thing, though--even I can't read that. It's like the equivalent of illegible handwriting or someone mumbling, it just takes so much effort to understand. :D :D I don't anymore, because then what if you forget your settings and default to slang speak/spelling in a more formal environment? Haha. :x So for me, it's jarring, but if the content is there, then I would give them a chance before writing them off. :D Also, I tend to type with capitalization and grammar in Reddit because I know everyone that doesn't actually know me is going to judge what I say and whether it's legit by how I present it, but in casual conversations on FB chat, Steam, and emails, I don't use capitalization, but I do use grammar because run on sentences suck. I'd say phone, but my predictive text manages to apply proper capitalization and standard spellings of words. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 2 points 3 years ago
Hehe midnightlover9. I'm laughing too, and will give that lady a chance to step up past the childish-looking writing style. Perhaps it's like what one can find in the movie Legally Blonde. permalink
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[–] Mamertine INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
Yes it's a turn off for me. In fact it's a big one. Before you dismiss her see how she's doing things. Grammar rules are quite different when texting or using a phone. If she's using a phone for the interface for the site. I'd let it slide. If she's not put up with it until you meet her, then decide. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Thanks Mamertine, for the sound advice. =) permalink
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[–] wolfcry0 1 point 3 years ago
A lot, I can't stand it. permalink
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[–] j4h4j 1 point 3 years ago
things that turn me off are 14 year old teenage girl grammar. i don't have good grammar myself (and have been constantly reminded of it by people in this sub) but but come on, does it really matter if i capitalize I's and follow all the grammar rules to the teath? permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
that's "teeth", lol. ;) permalink
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[–] j4h4j 1 point 3 years ago
forgot to capitalize the begining of your sentence. got you. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
good catch ;) permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
oops, I did it again. haha. But, you're calling the kettle black now. permalink
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[–] j4h4j 1 point 3 years ago
and again. for what it's worth i could have "prestine grammer" if i wanted to learn about it and look up the spelling of every single word i type and spend time proof reading everything, but 95% of the time it just is a waste of time IMO permalink
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[–] kingpolly1 INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
Totally. I can't have someone around me who is not at least reasonably intelligent and comparable to myself (I struggle with anyone IQ lower than 120 [yes, I IQ tested my friends]). Otherwise I begin to devise ways to escape. permalink
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[–] zuiper 1 point 3 years ago
You should test your friends on cognitive capacity rather than IQ. I mean, I've heard of people who have mensa-level IQ who'd basically qualify as retards to me. I'd say cognition is made out of 3 qualities: Analysis Synthesis IQ IQ is only 1/3 of the thing that matters. You have all 3 of them, as far as I can tell. It is estimated that 60% of people lack the first, rendering them practically idiots compared to the other 40% who do, regardless of IQ. The second is just the ability to synthesize concepts, sometimes called creativity. permalink
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[–] dirntbag INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
Oh god, I have an English teacher right now whose grammar/spelling/formatting is just abysmal. He'll give us a worksheet in class and it'll have 1-2-3s and bullet points and a-b-cs on the same page, and it's just horribly inconsistent. I feel like screaming YOU ARE AN ENGLISH TEACHER, GET IT TOGETHER! It doesn't bother me to the point that I'll think less of a person with bad grammar, but I just think it's really funny when people don't use it correctly. I mean, I'm no grammar-wizard myself, but some people just make the stupidest of mistakes. It's worse when they call themselves a teacher. permalink
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[–] LadyPo INTJ 1 point 3 years ago
I don't mind texts ending without a period, as long as the person knows to include them in other forms of writing. Anything beyond that is just intolerable. It says a lot about someone if they forego decent grammar/spelling. That speech is almost disrespectful and makes the person seem lazy when it comes to details. I can see how people think it makes them seem more sociable, but I prefer properly written messages. However, it's not everything. I say give them a chance because it (probably) won't hurt. It's annoying to read such an eyesore of a message, but don't judge a book by its cover. If they are a teacher, they have had training/education and most likely aren't as empty-headed as their texts. permalink
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[–] theBCexperience 1 point 3 years ago
It's not a big deal as long as I can understand it with ease. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Hmm... so the poor spelling chick sounds a lot smarter on the phone than via email. Phew. Though... gulp ... she was a DJ at one of NYC's premiere bar/dance clubs for a decade. Something about that just makes me nervous because, while my social skills are ok, it feels kind of intimidating, conversation-wise, because I'm more into intellectual conversation than party scene conversation. Date is next week on a weekday. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 1 point 3 years ago
I have briefly studied psychoanalysis, linguistics and programming, and do believe that a lot can be said about a person and his capacity for language. However, at the same time, I wouldn't strictly attribute text-speak to a lack of intelligence. I work at a university and have academic colleagues who have adopted text-speak even while expressing intellectual ideas. For me, text-speak is, in itself, a language with its own rules and conditions. Of course, all of this depends on context. For example, receiving professional emails from superiors that are not grammatically sound does irritate me. Not only is this a bad practice and renders one's message vague and susceptible to misinterpretation, but it is mostly a poor display of one's comprehension of syntax, semantics and the overall subject matter being addressed. I think this is consistent with the idea that INTJ's are simply unable to respect an authoritative figure who is intellectually—I mean to use this word loosely—beneath them. permalink
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[–] BBtheRipper [S] 1 point 3 years ago
Thanks for the input, czimhmxe. It turns out, this potential date... maybe even girlfriend, in time, at least seems driven. She was a DJ for 10 years at a premiere club in NYC, and is now a high school teacher. So, she's likely great at making connections and networking with the 'right' people, and / or good at her craft. Hopefully, she's intellectually-inclined to enjoy talking about some nerdy topics from time-to-time. This week, I've 4 dates. pantpant They say it's a numbers game. Heh. permalink
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[–] [deleted] 0 points 3 years ago*
if im going to let something bother me, there are a lot more interesting options should i be impressed you are showing off skills one may master in grade school? should i envy your mastery of the finger swipe for checking apa guides? permalink
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[–] CardinalMars 0 points 3 years ago
there's a difference between people who don't stick to technically correct grammar because they're actually just dumb, and people who deliberately deviate from it as a means of creative expression the example given in your post is very clearly the former permalink
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