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106 posts 1 2 3 4 5

#1

kkumar29 Posts: 46 Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 20:26

by kkumar29 » 27 Jul 2006, 00:52

Hi, There seem to be a good number of people who know Telugu participating in this forum. This question is directed at them. I am a Tamilian and I want to learn enough Telugu to understand the compositions written in Telugu. I don't want to go through a comprehensive language course, but something quick and dirty that will do the job. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, K. Kumar. 0 x

#2

cmlover

by cmlover » 27 Jul 2006, 02:36

Posts: 11498 Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36 x 2

LEARN TELUGU THROUGH TAMIL By Srinivasachariar Balaji Publications 103 Pycrofts Road Chennai 600014 0 x

#3

rshankar

by rshankar » 27 Jul 2006, 03:31

Posts: 12980 Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26 x 256 x 69

CML, On a lighter vein, I am sure books like these are to blame for the following blunders: panDurIdi koluvIyavaiyyA abba rAma bhaktI mAgElarA vijAramU kanDajUDumI ATa mODi kaladE and many, many more that I have heard! I am sure DRS/Kiran/Sarma will be able to add many more.... Ravi

0 x

#4

Suji Ram

by Suji Ram » 27 Jul 2006, 22:09

Posts: 1529 Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04 x 1

Watching telugu movies, TV channels -Quick and dirty way :cheesy: Though Im not sure if it will help understanding kritis. I studied telugu until 10th - In general I can can understand the kritis, but for certain words I need telugu pandits. Ravi, It is an inherent trait of my Mom's generation to replace Pand B, T and D sounds. My mom would call my friend Badmaja for a long time, until one day she got it right. But still I liked the way she said it.... 0 x

#5

rshankar

by rshankar » 27 Jul 2006, 23:20

Suji, I have said this many times, but this habit of switching the p and b sounds and d and t sounds were resposnible for the creation of the first (Indian) Batman amongst my friends: born in Pondicherry, when his parents went to register his name, they said 'batmanAbhan', and the French clerk wrote it down verbatim/phonetically as 'Batmanabhane' (they added an e at the end to many names)....and, being (very cruel) children, we used to call him 'batman' much to his and his parents' annoyance.

Posts: 12980 Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26 x 256 x 69

This issue is not a problem just for your parents' generation - it is still a problem for may tamizh speakers who use the tamizh script to write lyrics. The examples I posted above are from listening to certain contemporary artists featured on MIO. Another that comes to mind is an example of mutilating the meaning of a name with one such substitution: the phrase in question is 'aditiyin maindA pOtri' - but having been mutilated, it is (in the final recorded version for the world to hear) 'atithiyin maindA pOtri' - so, instead of praying to the son of aditi (the mother of the Gods), the singer is asking us to pray to the son of our guest!!! Maybe there is a hidden meaning here (after all we are supposed to be experts in atithi sanskAr) that equates a guest to God.... Ravi 0 x

#6

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 27 Jul 2006, 23:39

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

Lets recall the example I posted a good wgile ago "bADi bogaLuveno" for "pADi pogaLuveno parama puruSha"(ODi bArayya) by an Iyer mAmi, no doubt a dedicated music student. "padigi hAradIre"

and "kShIrAbdi kannige" fall in the same category. 0 x

#7

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 27 Jul 2006, 23:44

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

One Lady learning the navAvaraNas always said "kaNDa kridi nanakke sariyAki baralilla". The guru said "kaNDa heNDati yAvuddU barOdu bEDa. ghaNTa bandare sAku( Not contrive. real incident as also bADi bogaLuvenu) 0 x

#8

rshankar

by rshankar » 27 Jul 2006, 23:48

Posts: 12980 Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26 x 256 x 69

LOL! DRS!!!! ROFL.... Ravi 0 x

#9

rshankar

by rshankar » 27 Jul 2006, 23:51

Posts: 12980 Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26 x 256 x 69

A couple of days ago, in the Bangalore papers, there was review of a dance performance: pAl vaDiyum mukham/mugam became pAlvaDi un mukham.... sounded like a new variety of kAvaDi...or something! Ravi 0 x

#10

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 27 Jul 2006, 23:52

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

pAl vaDiyum mukham/mugam became pAlvaDi un mukham.... Ravi

Yeah . I saw it too. :cheesy: 0 x

#11

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 27 Jul 2006, 23:58

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

Here it is. Perhaps the naTTuvanAr was singing it for the dancer. hehe http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thsc ... 14/&prd=fr& 0 x

#12

Suji Ram

by Suji Ram » 28 Jul 2006, 00:00

Posts: 1529 Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04 x 1

LOL!, I always wonder how they don't get confused when to use T and D while reading tamizh. What' the grammer behind it. I can read tamizh slowly-once read Muttachar Nachar for Mudassar Nazar. My cousins do make fun of me too. 0 x

#13

srkris Site Admin

by srkris » 28 Jul 2006, 00:47

Suji, You are probably right in reading it the way you did. Tamil does not have the 'sa' consonant. It has to be 'cha'. Today tamils say 'sa' in some places and 'cha' in other places wherever ' ' appears.

Posts: 3402 Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 03:34 Location: London, UK x 4 x 8 Contact:

0 x

#14

rshankar

by rshankar » 28 Jul 2006, 01:54

Posts: 12980 Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26 x 256 x 69

I always wonder how they don't get confused when to use T and D while reading tamizh.

Suji, The problem is that there is no reason/rule for this, and hence the issue with wrong/inappropriate pronunciation.... Ravi 0 x

#15

arasi

by arasi » 28 Jul 2006, 01:57

Posts: 15582 Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30 x 223 x 134

My dad used to say this when I was a little girl: "es E voy 'say'-innu sollaRa sollukku, adu sollaRa sollukku sollaRa sollu". May be you have to say it aloud a few times before you get it. Now take sollu. My preference is to say shol or chol, dependent on the context (or while singing a song). Solla (as in soda) is something I don't savor, especially in a song. There is also usage, exposure to mass media and other elements which cause these problems... Here is an amusing one. The mother was repeatedly calling her daughter when she was with her friends, lost in play. 'E BUTmiNI! vA inge!' How did they enroll her in school? As buTmiNi or Padmini?? 0 x

#16

abadri

by abadri » 28 Jul 2006, 03:59

Posts: 183 Joined: 08 Jun 2005, 00:04

I always wonder how they don't get confused when to use T and D while reading tamizh. Suji, The problem is that there is no reason/rule for this, and hence the issue with wrong/inappropriate pronunciation.... Ravi

Ravi, I think there are rules alright, but they apply only to native tamil words. For eg. take "P" vs "B". "paTTam", "pAmbu", etc.. I think you can't lead the word off with the "B" sound. So the first symbol always stands the "Pa" sound. Similarly in the word "pAmbu" the symbol has to mean only the "Bu" not "Pu" as it follows the "im". So as long as one works with native tamil words, the symbol can denote only one sound, depending on the context. These kind of contextual rules are what keep the tamil script compact. Hence for example, why the first indian language typewriter was in tamil. Someone with more knowledge than me (of Tamil in general and works like tolkAppiyam, etc) can explain this in more detail. I guess problems start happening when you start representing non-tamil words in the tamil script. And then of course representing aspirated sounds is out of the question. A further problem is the governement mandated rules that take out the grantham symols for sounds like "sha", "ha" etc. 0 x

#17

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 28 Jul 2006, 04:27

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

Yes the rules are clear for tamizh words., although it can lead o ludicrous results when applied to borrowed words(even the commonly used ones). In the beginning of the word, only the khara(unaspirate) sounds(ka, ca, Ta, ta, pa) can occur. Never the aspirates. But when the same letter occurs in the middle or end of a word alone(not as part of conjunct), it should be pronounced as an aspirate(ga, sa, Da, da, ba). Note here that ca is not pronounced as ja but as sa in middle. And when a letter occurs as a conjunt(as kk, cc, TT etc), the sound will always be unaspirated i.e as kk and never as gg.(similarly for others). The behaviour of c interesting here as j is not represented. This could point towards the original sound which was likely sa and not ca and hnce this seemingly odd behaviour. Of course this may not be the case. In the beginning of a word, c can and often is pronounced as sa or Sa. T, N, r, l, zh, L, R and Rannagaram(the last n of the alphabet) do not occur in the beginning of tamizh words. This is not allowed. R in compound(RR) is pronounced as TR 0 x

#18

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 28 Jul 2006, 04:32

Some difficulties occur because of these rules pAvam for both sin and emotion(bhAva). sabittal for both cursing and repeated prayer(japa) kAnti and Gandhi(Mahatma Gandhi) are both kAndi.

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

I have a tamizh translation(in verse) of D.V.Gundappa's "mankutimmana kagga". Of course it reads "mangutimmana kakka" by "Ti.Vi. kuNDappa". kannaDigas will appreciate the joke. (the tamizh name for this book is mangutimmanin pidaTralgaL) DISCLAIMER: No requests for translation will be entertained. 0 x

#19

Suji Ram

by Suji Ram » 28 Jul 2006, 11:56

Posts: 1529 Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04 x 1

I hope we didn't scare KKumar 29 away. Coming back to learning telugu.. There is no easy way. Regular usage and a dedication to learn over time (say one year) will help. There are n number of web sites you can learngoogle. As I said earlier movies/songs with subtitles will help. I used to watch german news and movies during my stay in Deutshland without any subtitles and over time I could follow German pretty well. Just keep in mind to get B P and T D correct 0 x

#20

vasanthakokilam

by vasanthakokilam » 28 Jul 2006, 12:13

Posts: 10883 Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01 x 3 x 21

Just keep in mind to get B P and T D correct

LOL.. Here is something from my experience, as someone who is in a similar situation to Kumar. In the short term, since the objective is to follow CM krithis in Telugu, what I found useful is to follow the word for word translation posted here at the Sahitya forum and build a vocabulary. There are several words that are repeated quite a bit and they can act as a bridge. Comparing and mapping it to close Tamil words help in remembering them. Some knowledge of sanskrit words in common and religious usage help as well. Suji, I am with you on your comment about being dedicated in this endeavor and keeping this in constant usage help a lot. It is amazing how just that "strong intention" to learn and keeping that intention in the forefront of one's consciousness in itself makes you encouner opportunities to fulfil that goal. It is not that dissimilar from when your car headlights are out, you tend to noitce many cars on the road without headlights. 0 x

#21

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 28 Jul 2006, 19:44

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

Now "Enduku beddala" in areview in the Friday section of The Hindu(Today's Chennai edition). http://www.hindu.com/fr/2006/07/28/stor ... 610600.htm It could easily have been "enduku bettala", apt starting line for a kRti(maNipravALa?) on kalki avatAra.

0 x

#22

kiransurya

by kiransurya » 28 Jul 2006, 21:23

Posts: 781 Joined: 13 Dec 2005, 15:58 Location: Great Britain

Funniest of all is, I heard a recording of Smt M.S Subbulakshmi's AIR recording where the announcer says Enna Gamana suka raani- ---RagamThyagaraja. I thought it was a rare krithi of thyagraja in a language other than telugu/sanskrit. I was totally shocked when I heard M.S singing Ennaga manasuku raani in neelambari.... 0 x

#23

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 28 Jul 2006, 22:02

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

O yes Kiran. Loads of such howlers on AIR One guy announced "kRpa jUcukudu" faltering over each syllable.(It was kRpa jUjuaTku) One of the worst ones that gets to my nerves is kirubAgaran for kRpAkaran. And kiruba means "hyena" in kannaDa :cheesy: And hear this one by a hindi announcer. When announcing the name of an award-wining kannaDa movie "Banker mArgayya" (In those days of regional movies on sunday afternoons on DD), you could see the woman sweating as she started "bainkar", a prominent pause, clearing of throat and "mar gayA" hohoho. Had my sides stitched although it was rreverent to laugh at someones death ANd to clarify "enduku bettala"- "bettale" means "naked" kannaDa. So "Why naked" will be apt for kalki(And Buddha in some depictions). 0 x

#24

kkumar29

by kkumar29 » 28 Jul 2006, 23:42

Posts: 46 Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 20:26

Hi guys, Thanks a lot for the wonderful discussions on tamilians pronouncing words in other languages. I grew up in Delhi and am very much aware of the tamilian going to the shop and mentioning "devuna devu devatta po". I tried following the route suggested by VK but it appeared that it will take a long time to collect all the words. I was just wondering whether there was any shorter and easier way to learn enough Telugu so I don't have to go looking for my notebook everytime I hear a Telugu composition. As for watching Telugu serials, if they are anything like what I have seen in Tamil and Hindi serials, no thanks. Do you know whether there is a Telugu dictionary type thing where the Telugu words are in English and the corresponding meanings listed as in a phrase book. That might be useful. Any way I will keep plugging on while you guys can provide more funny anecdotes on Tamilians and their language adaptation skills. K. Kumar. 0 x

#25

drshrikaanth

by drshrikaanth » 28 Jul 2006, 23:56

Posts: 4066 Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01 Location: Maidstone, UK

Kumar try these http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/brown/ http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/gwynn/ More Telugu dictionaries on this page http://www.multilingualbooks.com/online ... elugu.html 0 x

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