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M20 How Do You DO That? - Onyx Path Publishing | Mage 20th Anniversary | DriveThruRPG.com
(drivethrurpg.com) submitted 2 years ago by Furoan 7 comments share save hide
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[–] A_Bearcat 3 points 2 years ago*
Full disclosure: I'm more of an Awakening guy, and increasingly a narrative/story game guy, looking forward to the even more streamlined rules in MtAw 2e where you don't have to worry about Forces and Life dot exceptions, and everything has the same base spell factors, etc. I did have Ascension from 1e in '93 to Revised, and never fully played it but loved the idea of it. It was generally the metaplot and the local fanbase for WoD I wasn't into. I never had much of an opinion back then because everyone wanted to be backstabbing vampires if they liked WoD. Still, the material was very formative, thought provoking stuff for a late teen to early 20s person. I got M20 as an early Christmas present, and I've been trying to read through it in order from the beginning. OP has done a ton in Ascension's 20th anniversary to make everything more explicit, up-to-date and generally palatable. I think having setting info written from a more neutral tone is absolutely essential in a game about subjective reality. For some reason, even though it seems obvious now, having them spell out the fact that everyone - Technocracy and Tradition - is doing magic regardless of what they say and therefore their belief system is a tool (and a bunch of affected crap) and nothing more is huge in terms of being able to appreciate and present the setting. Consensual reality is still a bit dodgy, but I digress.
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43 users here now A community for fans of White Wolf's roleplaying games, notably: The Classic World of Darkness (Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, Wraith: The Oblivion, Changeling: The Dreaming, Hunter: The Reckoning, Demon: The Fallen, Orpheus) The Chronicles of Darkness (Vampire: The Requiem, Werewolf: The Forsaken, Mage: The Awakening, Promethean: The Created, Changeling: The Lost, Hunter: The Vigil, Geist: The Sin-Eaters, Mummy: The Curse, Demon: The Descent) Exalted Discussion of non-WW Onyx Path games (Scarred Lands, Scion, Trinity Continuum) has moved to /r/OnyxPathRPG.
Great stuff, although I'm only just wrapping up the history part and getting into the traditions. I keep thinking I could probably make this work with the right players. However, any glimpse of the rules that I've seen so far has reminded me of why I'd rather wait for Awakening 2nd. I thought I might change my mind about that if I got "How Do You Do That?" Nice Art. Good quality. Decent writing. About what I'd expect. This shouldn't be taken as a criticism of the book so much as the rules system which seems largely unchanged from the 90's. But oh, damn, does this remind me why I'd much rather play Awakening 2e. The pedantry of the magic rules goes beyond anything I remember. I think I might go double autistic if I read it too long. Conjunctive spheres. The ever-present Prime 2. Optional rules for manipulating the elements as a spiritual character (add Spirit 2 to your requirements if you're playing a Last Airbender type spiritual manipulator of elements.) What seem to be non-optional rules that say you have to have Mind 3 to psychically manipulate elements. Why? As opposed to what? Just mystically manipulating them? Maybe all the narrative games from the last two decades has muddled my mind, but it seems like if I add a descriptor to how I do something by magic, it shouldn't make it harder. (Why is it optional to add Spirit 2 to your fire spells if you say you're a shamanistic type but not optional to add Mind 3 (and why Mind 3?) if you say you manipulate fire psychically?) It seemed like anything worthwhile required multiple spheres at master.
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Oh, gods, the shapeshifting stuff. The book does a really good job of breaking down what you need to do in order to do anything. Unfortunately that's the thing I dislike most about the game and that I've been avoiding so far while getting back into reading about Ascension. If Ascension is your game, mechanically as well as setting, this is probably a good book. Even though all of this is a big "Nope" for me, it's a kick to be reminded of all the exceptions-based simulationist stuff that was used to somehow emulate "freeform" magic. It's good, but it absolutely demonstrates that the rules are the part of the game OP didn't really update or change very much. It's probably the strongest litmus test you could have as to whether or not the game is right for someone: just have them read a bit from one of the sections in this book. permalink
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[–] Furoan [S] 2 points 2 years ago*
That's a fair criticism. EDIT: I was going to mention what I thought the mind thing worked but realised it didn't really matter. Honestly I've always liked Ascension more than Awakening because of the largness of the setting but I can certainly understand the daunting prospect of the mechanics compared to what Awakening has. permalink
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SamuraiCarChase 1 point 2 years ago
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But oh, damn, does this remind me why I'd much rather play Awakening 2e. The pedantry of the magic rules goes beyond anything I remember. It goes beyond anything you remember because it does the same for all of us. Mage was never this overdrawn or complex, and didn't break down into the minutia. I don't know why M20 decided "we have to have a rule for absolutely every possible scenario," because it really made a philosophical game into a new form of crunch.
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GaySkull 2 points 2 years ago
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Holy shit, this looks like it'll be 100% required reading. Anyone already read it? Thoughts? permalink
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I love M20 as an anthology piece, but I'm not going to stop running Revised anytime soon... permalink
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[–] Furoan [S] 2 points 2 years ago
I'm currently reading through it now. I'm only in the first section (talking about shapechanging, conjuring etc) but it looks interesting. permalink [–]
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GaySkull 2 points 2 years ago
Cool beans. The two reviews are promising. permalink [–]
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tlenze 2 points 2 years ago
I had the PDF from the KS. It's awesome. It clarifies lots of things. permalink
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