tape recorded interview with mp mp mp mp - Independent Jersey Care

4151

Tape Reference No: MP/3

Case Ref:

~ÿ.\

Exhibit No.

MP.32

No. of pages

22

M.Pick

Tape Reference No: MP/3

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH 120

ON SATURDAY 16TM FEBRUARY 2008 @ 10:34 AM

MP

=

Civilian Officer Michael Pick

DP

=

Dawn Pearce

120

=

C

120

[Tape Commences] 120

Out the window. I was on penicillin, as per usual.

MP

Looking out of what window?

120

The window. You got the swimming pool there ain't you, round here, where's the swimming pool from here?

MP 120

I think it's under that cover, ain't it? Just under there. Is that right? Yeah, that's it.

MP

Is that the right position for it?

120

Yeah, hang on. Right. I'm looking out the window.

MP

Can't see what you're doing. Yeah.

120

And there's a little swimming pool for the little 'uns to swim in.

MP

geah.

120

Now

was no bigger than a grasshopper's kneecap. Not even about 3, I

wouldn't even say 2.

1

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4 ] 5 2

MP Right. What age did they go in there then? 120 Uhln, any age I suppose.

MP

Okay.

120

So, uhm, the staff sittin' standin' around, like around that area, right, you know? See, like that.

MP

By the edge of the pool, yeah.

120

Yeah. And you've got a little boy and he's face down in the pool and they're laughing, at this, and I'm banging on the window, and in the end I screamed.

MP

So where were you then? Were you in the building then?

120

I was in the building. I screamed to who was standing, say like that, it was , god bless him, he's dead, he saved his life.

MP F 120

what's F

Uhm, P

MP F 120

S name? .

..

Oh now look, I don't know.

MP You don't know. I'm sorry. I keep doing that to you. 120

UIÿn.

MP Was that not covered in then when you were there? 120 . No.

MP

Just an open swimming pool?

120

That was an open swimming pool, but the little 'un, you got a little swimming pool there for the toddlers, but he was faced down the pool, the little fucker,

and I screamed out to

, and it was

and give him mouth-to-mouth. Now

that had to bring him out is still alive which am

going to meet, am going back to Jersey shortly,

MP

What's that for?

120

6 Ulÿn, to see my family. ended up in hospital over this and I don't want nothin to happen to her. Ulÿrn, yeah, yeah, gave him mouth-to-mouth.

2

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4 ] 5 3

MP Right. He obviously lived? 120

The little boy lived, yeah.

MP That was good. 120 But, he wouldn't have lived otherwise.

MP

120

They've got a lot of diggin up to do. There was one boy, oh it was horrible.

MP Tell me about it. 120

We ran from you've got Haut De La Garenne, that's a detention room, all 136 right. So me and call her, we ran out from this side and run across this field, all right, and we hid in the bushes, we got bushes down that

way ain't ya? All right. And I hid in the bushes, I didn't hide for fuckin long when I seen the hand.

MP A hand? 120

A hand. And 136 oes 'that's a body' and 1 look and I said "can't be a body" I said "it's a hand".

MP Where was that then? 120

Down that way.

MP

There's

120

Yeah, I soon bloody ran. I ran back into Haut De La Garelme (indistinct) running from it.

MP

What was the hand doing then?

120

I don't know what the was bloody doing. It was just there. Myself and 136 shit ourselves. I was about thirteen, and she was about twelve.

MP What, just a hand? 120

That's all we seen, just a hand.

MP

What, just laying on top of the ground or..

120

No, it was like, sort of like, you know like leaves. I don't know whether it was connected to a body to tell you the truth but it was the way I ended up on top of the bloody thing and 136 say's there's a hand. I looked at it and first I

3

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4 ] 5 4

said don't (indistinct) and out the bloody bushes we ran. Alright we had (Indistinct) on our head.

MP Did you tell anybody? 120

No.

MP Do you know if anybody ever found it? 120 Oh, I did, I tell you I did, I did. I told F MP 120

Yeah. l, god bless him, and

who is a very close friend of mine.

Yeah.

MP

Do you know what they did about it?

120

I know they went to their mothers, uhm, she's dead now, but .

MP

Are you still in touch with him then, or..?

120

No, uhm I went over to Jersey two year ago to see m

6

right, obviously

we are close like, uhm, ...

MP Is that bringing back memories? 120 Could put bomb up fuckin place up to tell you the truth. 120

MP

What else can you tell me from there

120

Lots of things. Its changed, Jersey has changed a lot though, I told you that. It's getting more and more like England.

MP

What else happened up there then?

120

What didn't happen up there? The fields. I notice they didn't put the dolmens there though did they? The dolmens are that way. Across the field that way.

MP The dolmens being? 120 The dolmens, like the Romans. MP 120

Yeah.

Oh, they didn't tell you about that did they? The bastards. About that lad that wouldn't give me pocket money. We were down Gorey Hill to go down the hill, that way.

4

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41 5 5

MP To the village, yeah. 120

MP 120

MP

Yeah. No, not the village.

All right. You got the village that way. Down to ....

120 The harbour. Gorey.

MP 120

The port is it? something port. Yeah. And, uhm, he I said something, my love 'ave never seen anything like this, and this is the first time I seen anyone die. You coming up, you got 6 136 sitting Gorey Castle, right, we sit down there, myself and o down there.

MP

136

120

136

as in? I call her

136

os she's

.

MP

Yeah, yes, I'd lost that for a minute.

120

365 So we sit down there and we're waiting for a froln Le Preferance to come and I'm looking at this lad to see what the f .... n hell he is doing and you go round the back of the castle you got rocks, do you understand what I mean and it' s one hell of a drop. This lad was climbing up, I think to myself, he's going to fall but he was from the Haut De La Garenne but he was older than us, he was must have been about fourteen. We were

twelve or somethin like that. We were watching, Jesus Christ, that lad we watched him fall to his death. There was nothing we could do, we couldn't help him, do you know what I mean, we couldn't do nuthin. Say a bit further away say about not even 50 yards that's exagerating and from side of the room to the other and a bit longer if you know what I mean. I said 136 and by the time we got up to him his head was split in two - he only hit the rocks and he was from the Haut De La Garenne. Nothin, nothin said about it, nothin.

MP

Who else was there

120

136, 365, 6

MP 120

120

?

and, I saw it.

Just the three of you? Four of you and ....

But he ...No, I think there was holidaymakers, I think it was one of the holidaymakers that went to ring for the ambulance and she said she was, what was her name, Mandy, some name, she was from Yorkshire, but she was on

5

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4"! 5 6

holiday like, and she said "I don't thiN( you ought to be looking at this because you are too young. You could tell that she was experienced like, you know.

MP How old do you think you would be? 120

About twelve at the time. But it was horrible, horrible. Did actually I saw the boys head and I don't care what anyone I am sure they killed n. You don't tie your hands up and hang yourself.

MP

he one in the

120 It wasn't a flat it was a room. MP

Room, I meant, sorry.

120 I don't care what anyone says. MP But you don't if the Police came to that or not. 120

They didn't give a shit anyway. They were all in one, as far as I'm concerned. I know she's from Jersey and I don't care where she's from.

MP 120

Just take you back to the map then. You mentioned the hand in that hedge down there. Anything else you know about the land.

I know everything about the bloody land.

MP Tell me about it then. 120

That.

MP What's that? 120

You got a house there. You forgetting about the steamroller on that side in it.

MP Steamroller. What steamroller? 120 There was a steamroller there. There was swings there.

MP Like a play area then? 120

Yeah

MP What sort of steamroller? 120

Well, a real.

MP A proper one?

6

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

41 5 7

Yeah.

MP What was it doing then? 120

MP What dead body?

120

Well, there's a dead body there.

MP Where 120

As you come out of there right. You go down there, you got playing fields

there, right?

MP

Put me a cross there where you just marked that. That's it. Yeah. And that's where the steamroller was?

120

And then you've got on that side, you got the seesaw there, you got the swings there.

MP

You just put two crosses, one nearest the house is a seesaw, ones fresher away are the swings. Yeah.

120

Swings, right. Swings.

MP Yeah 120

Aw right? Then there's a steamroller there.

MP Where the line is. Yeah. 120

And you got the seesaw there, seesaw margery door, and you got, there was

the body.

MP What body. 120

Of a young boy. Don't ask me his name because I don't know.

MP How did he get there then? 120

Well, ask the staff from round the godly place.

MP Where is it? Is it still there? 120

I don't know darling, I really don't know. Even when I went over t Jersey three years ago darlin I would not go near that shit hole.

MP Did you see it being put there?

7

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

4 ] 5 8

No.

MP How do you know it's there? 120 Because me and MP 120

136 as playing seesaw margery door.

Yeah. And she noticed the foot. I said "don't be ridiculous" and then I looked "whah". We weren't seesaw fuckin margery door then. I thought, We were on the seesaw weren't we?

MP

Yeah.

120

Then we see the foot.

MP Foot? What, just explain how the foot was? 120

It was sort of down, it looked down. It looked like he had been, how can you explain it, been strangled. You know when you hang someone the foot goes down don't they. That' s how he looked, so it looked like he was carried there.

MP So was it a full body that was there then? 120

Full body, yeah. He had black hair. I'd say he would have been about my age now, roughly about my age.

MP

All right.

120

Only young.

MP What happened to him? 120

Look, I nearly got strangled myself an that bloody place.

136 , god almighty, I'll never forget

MP Did you tell anybody? 120

Yeah, I told F

nd told

his mother.

MP But, you don't know what happened to the body? 120

No, no, we can't do nothin we were only kids, you know what I mean?

MP How old do you think you'd be then? 120

I was comin up fourteen,

136

as thirteen.

MP Okay.

8

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4 ] 5 9

120 Yeah, them bushes, they haven't changed much have they?

MP Anything else about the grounds? 120

Yeah, looking at it love, that's a good place to look on this side though.

MP That field to the right hand side? 120

Yeah. Where we found the body with the hand.

MP The hand under the hedge? 120

I don't know whether it was a full body there darling, all I know is it didn't look that old I just stared at it and 136 was pulling me away like, you know.

MP Okay. 120

That field was where we used to run across. It's a long walk when you're

seven years of age to St Helier. MP It would have been a long walk at 47 years of age. 120

Laughs. I'm not that age yet.

MP

Laughs.

120

That's where the detention rooms were. Where the car park is.

MP Right. 120

Its gotta be.

MP

Bottom right. Oh.

120

Yeah.

MP What else can you tell me then. 120

I try to remember everything I can. I told the truth but.

6

I promised her I would tell

MP

That's what I want.

120

I'm telling you the truth. Why is all them cars there now.

MP 120

Because there doing building work. There all builders vans and cars that are doing building work. Spending a lot of money on it. A lot of money.

What did you say they're going to do on it?

9

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MP

41 6 0

Certainly part of it now is a youth hostel. You lcaaow for ramblers and people who want cheap accommodation. I'm not sure, can't remember what there

doing with the rest of it. They're spending a lot of money on it. 120

Well, they should blow it up.

MP Making something decent out of it perhaps, eh? Do you think. 120

I don't know.

MP So you said to 120

6

hat you'd tell the truth.

Yeah, ah promised her. I was spealdng to her not last night it was Thursday

night. Didn't I tell you? Yeah, Thursday night, I was talking to her, oh God, doesn't she go on, bloody hell.

MP Has she spoken to the Police? 120

6

Yeah, in Jersey, she was down, uhrn, what you call it, Rouge

Bouillon talking to them. MP And she told them everything that she knew? 120

Yep. Ugh, She said ... I said to you didn't I darling, I said when she rang up I fought it was a death in the family. goes to me, r". I nearly died of a heart attack, she doesn't usually ring me up. When she did ring me up.

MP Who else do you remember from the Home. 120

I remember quite a few my darling. I want to know what happened to

MP

120

MP 120

I don't know her second name. She was no bigger than that, she was like a and I want to know what happened to that girl. She was only about 3, 4, say about 4 or 5 years of age, and she used to bang her head against the wall. As you go down to the Detention Rooms, right? Yeah. Well, getting frog marched down there. She used to bang her head like that all the time and my heart went out to her. I must have been about 14 or somethin like that, I was always in bloody trouble with them. I kidnapped her and took her to the Battle of Flowers and gave her a candy.

MP Oh, right. 120

Okay?

10

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4 ] 6 ]

MP Right. 120

Well, we got caught obviously I come out of the Detention Rooms and she was still banging her head and I looked at her and I went to give her some sweets, and that's the last I seen of that child.

MP Right. 120

A

er name was.

MP Do you think she could have been fostered out, or? 120

Doubt it.

MP Doubt it. 120

MP

I mean to say if you are screaming at a kid like that, of course you're going to wet yourself. And you don't have to bloody well have to punish them. Bastards. There was only a couple I liked there. The rest of them I couldn't stand, to be quite honest with you. Always hit these bloody relations. So, we've spoken about you being physically, oh we've not spoken about your broken nose.

120

Oh yes, when he decided to rape me.

MP That was the first occasion? When he hit you in the face? 120

Yeah, I should have had stitches, don't you dare laugh at me.

MP That's the first occasion when he takes you in that room? 120

MP

God, it's better if you didn't have a better map. Well, you've drawn one here haven't you? So that happened on that occasion?

120

Yeah.

MP Did you go to the doctor's in relation to that, 120

120

They wouldn't let me go to the doctor's. Nah, would they fuck?

MP Did they have a doctor that used to come in then? 120

No, they used to take me down to uhm, what you call it? They could have had a doctor goin up there but he didn't see me or what have you. They used to take me see a psychiatrist.

11

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4 ] 6 2

MP That's him yes, Foggerty 120

Yes.

MP You mentioned him. 120 MP 120

He gave me that, you know, it's about that big, like a cup, they give me, right? Yeah.

they give me, right? The next minute if I didn't take it they used to put it like uhm, like a needle sort of thing. You know ...

MP A syringe? 120

Correct. They used to put that, they used to force me like that. I was f... g about.

MP But you didn't know what it was? 120

It was Clear.

MP Clear liquid. 120

I'm still under a psychiatrist, do you know that?

MP

Are you.

120

Yeah. I don't know his name.

MP For what? For what? 120

Depression. I've still got medication.

MP What' s your psychiatrist' s name? 120

I don't know.

MP You don't know? 120

No. They put me in hospital because I nearly had anel, ous breakdown again.

MP Right. 120

I told you about that didn't I love?

MP Was that recently?

12

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

41 6 3

Yeah, all over this. I mean to say I was off the drink 10 months, I was doing really great, but you didn't see me did you? Before I went into hibernation, Helle Ulml, I was off the drink 10 months, cause my palÿner ....

MP You told us about him yeah? 120

MP

But (clicking noise) and then this. Okay, so you've told us about your broken nose, you've told us about being raped by

120

on one occasion ...

Have you got him?

MP And on a number of other occasions. 120

MP

120

You tell me the truth. Have you got the bastard? I can't tell you one way or the othe 120 I'd love to tell you but leave it with us eh, leave it with us. So he raped you only on the one occasion that you mentioned there but there were, how many other occasions? About three or four.

MP Three or four occasions. What in the same room? 120

Yeah.

MP Always in the same room? 120

Yeah, no I tell a lie. It wasn't. He got me down by the .... How he got away

with it. You know the launderette and you've got the bathroom there?

MP 120

Mm. The two bathrooms. He had me in there in the launderette one night. Oh, fuck this. So in the end I kept running away.

MP Right. Was it only him that raped you? 120

He was the only one. There's somethin I want to tell you.

MP

Yeah.

120

There was, how can I put it, you know like

MP Right. 120

Uhm, they come and go.

MP What, to the home?

13

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

41 6 4

They come and go. They' r were all right, what have you. There was one called

. Some of them 7 his name

was, don't ask me his second name.

MP What was he like? Can you describe him, or ... 120

1 liked him actually, tell you the truth, uhm, he ended up not welcome for

. He ended up doing

. Now he was

and am fucking glad because he was lovely. He was very, how can I put it, he wasn't abrupt, he was firm but fair and I thought got someone there and that's when everything cooled down.

MP Right. 120

When he took over and fair play to him, he is back in Jersey,

7

now

his name was, so if you ever see him give him my

regards.

MP

Yeah.

120

Yeah.

MP

Were you going to tell me something about him to start with or is it just that he was good to you.

120

Oh, he was good that's what I was saying.

MP Oh right, oh, I thought initially you were going to say something about him. 120

No, no, I mentioned the copper and am not over keen on them usually, but he was lovely, but the other couple who ended up being Police, I couldn't stand them. Because they knew what was goin on, they were like Police cadets and 6 I get their names. If I had my phone I could ring up, uhm, they knew what was goin on, and I don't care what you say, you might be a copper, you might be this and that but I don't give a shit who you are, if you show me respect I will show you respect. That's my motto. But these.

MP How do you mean, they knew what was going on? 120

Well, they knew because they were welcome there overnight, weren't they darlin.

MP They used to stay there? 120

Yeah.

MP Oh right.

14

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

4] 65

Because they were doin that thing for, what you call it, Childcare, because they had to do that, listen to children's problems with children an all that, well of course we all have bloody problems with them lot. They were our problem not us.

MP Right. 120

Mind you, we did used to do somethings naughty. You know the kitchen, the door. The chef was always pissed and he used to leave the door open to cabinets and we used to get crisps and everything out there at night.

MP Midnight snacker. 120

Yeah. We used to do that. Yeah. All kids, all sneaking down the corridor in

their little nighties. Yeah, man, yeah too bloody right, until we got bloody caught. And Jaffa Cakes, we used to nick loads of Jaffa Cakes and were all like little rabbits, mmm, mmm!

MP Can we go back to t 120

hen?

Some of them were good but as far as I am concerned the only one I did get on 7 well with was his name is. He was firm but he was fair, he never laid a hand on us. He used to watch us and he used to look over us, but he never ...... but the rest of them, I'm trying to get their names, juju juju, Jesus, I haven't even got my phone number. I left my phone at home. Ulun,

there was one there and he ha

hair, I remember him, got

hair by

now, he was one fucked up pig as far as I'm concerned. I don't care what anyone says.

MP All right. What was wrong with him? 120

He used to laugh. He used to laugh at our downfalls. We were only children, you know, we're all human beings in the end, he had no rights to laugh at me, 6 kicked him in the anlde. you know, till my

MP What happened about that. 120

Oh, 6 was frog marched again and then I intervened 6

got away with it

and I blinkin well got put in the Detention Room. MP Detention room the cell you used to call it. 120

It is a cell. It's a proper cell darlin, you know when you're in there you feel alone.

MP 120

Yeah. You know you feel lost and feel everyone's against you.

15

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MP 120

4 ] 615

I want to be honest with you 120 the number of people I've spoken to have all mentioned the cell and have been put in there for varying reasons. Bastards. I mean to say it's not as though we, I mean we never committed a

crime, all right, we nicked Jaffa Cakes and things like that but that' s harmless innit? You're not going to put someone in a Detention Room for nicking a

Jaffa Cake, are you? Ooh! MP Anything else? 120

MP

I walma know how

s getting on.

, yeah, well we'll see if we can find out how these people are, once we've found 'em, because we've got lots and lots of people to see.

120

I didn't know this was goin on for two years.

MP What was going on two years? 120

This case.

MP This case? 120

I mean to say, why the f .... , oh God, I don't understand it, right. That's

supposed to be a youth hostel, right, yeah, fair play, yeah, good luck to the kids. But why, I mean to say, no, they should have left it as it is and got in contact with us lot. I would have went, well, I go back over to Jersey to see 6 my family, because I don't want to end up in hospital again thanks to you lot. I would have walked around there with you.

MP Right. When are you going over? 120

As soon as I get my

which is this week. Got to find out how

much of the ....... The fare goes down dun it about this time of year? MP

120

What fare? Plane or ....

Plane. I go by plane even though I don't like heights. with me. I will send her a birthday card, I promise you.

MP Anything else C 120 120

will be coming

at happened to you whilst in there, darling?

Yes, a few things. Get smacked about.

MP

Yeah, you told me about being hit, about being put in the Detention Room, all the other staff.

120

Tell, when you meet up with

, tell here froln

120

which is my maiden name.

16

Tape Reference No: MP/3

4 ] 6 7

MP How do you spell your surname? 120

Oh God, fuckin hell. Surname is

.... No.

MP No that's an 120

My maiden name is ... that's why they call me

MP 120 MP 120

MP

Hang on. That's my first name. How much did yeah, am not allowed to talk to you. Let me just check with

give you me this morning? Oh

see if there's anything we've not covered, all

right? 120

Can I have a fag then?

MP Not yet, just a minute, just a minute. 120

Okay. Never seen you so quiet my love. Are you feeling all right? Fair play to (indistinct) in_nit. (Indistinct). Can I have a fag now.

MP

You know the Detention Cell Block you mentioned. What colour was it, can you remember?

120

Oh, it's looking up someone's nose, that's what I said to the psychiatrist that I went to the intelwiew with. Oh, and I forgot to tell her that they put two chairs in there and my mother, got my mother with Dr Fogerty, the psychiatrist, and he gave me a cigarette. Now, I'm talking about when I was a kid, I'm not talking about when I'm now.

MP

Mm.

120

Turns around and says to me. "How does it feel being in here?" So I looked at him, looked around the room and I looked at Mama again. You know like the gloss, that gloss paint and it was white and the ceiling was white obviously and it was painted green, right. I said "how would you like to be up someone' s fuckin nose?" My mother burst our laughing.

MP

So it was green.

120

It was green, yeah, like gloss, the paint was like gloss.

MP Shiny? Like these doors. The white on the doors.

17

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

4]68

That's it.

MP Okay. 120

And I looked around and I looked at lriy mother and I said "how would you like to be up someone's fuckin nose?". My mother burst out laughing.

MP

And the other thing is, are you sure about the name

120 MP Yep. Where was he from? 120

He was English.

MP English? 120

But he had a .... What I'm tryin to say to you darlin his name was say 'a', right, but that was his middle ....

MP G 120

uld have been his surname, his middle name rather than a surname. Ugh.

know that for a fact. If he walked in the door now I'd

punch lfim in the head. MP Okay. 120

Am a good girl now. His middle name was somethin else.

MP So he was

omething

120

No, ugh!!

MP

I've confused you, I'm sorry.

120

His first name was say F,

MP Right. 120

His first name wasn't

you understand.

MP His first name was something else, then 120

His middle name, like my name is a 120

120

I could always use my name

MP Right. 120

But his name they used to call him

.

18

,Tape Reference No: MP/3

4 ] 13 9

MP Okay 120

MP

But his first name, luck 1;aaows.

Okay. Right and just to clarify you have been physically assaulted as in beaten, thumped, broken nose, kicked about the legs and hips, sexually abused, raped by and him only, and ....

120

What did they call it? They didn't call it paedophile then did they?

MP All sorts of names. 120

Child abuse.

MP Child abuse. 120

Recently they just call them paedophiles and that's what he is, owing to a woman called .

MP And then being put in the cell, etc., beaten around the head. 120

6

I'll never forgiven her for that, never. I was put in the cell, you know what I did? Do you know the urns of milk, am lookin at her when she come out and said 'Tin hungry", you know I looked at her and said "What do you mean you're hungry?" but I did go to the Detention Room but I was out 6 the back talkin to she was crying. That made me upset, anyway she got out and I thought they were feedin her but the bastards weren't. Anyway, I went into the kitchen, issed up as per usual, that's b)' the way. I pulled up the urn, opened you know like the scoop we got in there, we nicked some bread and made like a sandwich for my sister and I nicked some crisps. was too drunk, was working that day and she takes no notice of us kids and the next minute she was scoffing herself. You got (indistinct) in there, you got like a hot plate thing there, and am looking at her, she was nearly choking and had to bang her on the back, banging her on the bloody back and she brought that up again then I was escorted down to fuckin Detention Rooms.

MP

Oh dear.

120

For nickin milk.

MP Okay. 120

And she wasn't in there for two days. She was in there three days.

MP Three days, yeah. 120

There is not one day that me and 6 were very, how can I put it, we used to fight like cat and dog when we were kids, but if anyone intelwened, that was a different kettle offish. We'd beat them, ha, ha!

19

Tape Reference No: MP/3

4 ] 7 0

MP

Have you understood everything we've said today. Yeah.

120

Yeah.

MP

Thank you very much for talking to me.

120

That' s all right.

MP

I hope you've got some relief out of being able to sit down and talk it through. I hope it's not brought back too many bad memories.

120

Yeah, I'll have to take it out on

MP

You've been very helpful in painting the picture of what the place was like and that's beneficial.

120

now.

You lÿaow one thing that I was looking at just now while you were talking. I know my eyesight is getting worse.

MP

Yours and mine both.

120

Let's have a look at this again. That's the front entrance. That's the Detention Rooms there. Bastards.

MP

Let's put a cross on it where it is.

120

And cunts.

MP

Mm.

120

MP 120

Yeah, but we at the back of it my dear, I'll put another little cross. Go on then.

Ugh? There was another Detention Room and the kids used to come ... because we all used to stick up for each other, I know things were rough and we used to hah hah where's the pool gone from there? So you had Detention Rooms there and I was in the Detention Room, no offence to you two, right, ah, ah, , God bless him, he's dead, , actually. I was lookin out the window, was a year older than me, and am crying my eyes out, I wanted nay Mummy and the next minute, was on the top of the pole - it was the Queen's Jubilee, wannit?

MP

Oh, right.

120

1987, and the tears welled up in my bloody eyes didn't it. He wouldn't get down. The Police, the Fire Brigade, you name it were up there baby. You

have a look at them fields, you got a lot of digging up and I wish you all the best mate.

20

Tape Reference No: MP/3

MP

41 7 1

Okay. Thanks so nmch. Am going to end it there

120

ecause the tape is

coming to an end. It's 2 hours and we've ugh ..... it's now 12.35 and I'll conclude it there.

120

Yeah, what's your name.

MP Mick Pick. 120

MP

Mick Pick That's lily surname, surname is Pick. When we were having children, when

we were thinking about having children at home, we ended up having two girls but one of the boys' names we were thinking about, not seriously but we

were thinking about we were going to call him Nicholas Michael Richard so it would be Nick, Mick, Dick Pick. 120

MP

Takin the piss, innit eh. Go and have your fag and talk t

while I sort the tapes and things out.

Thanks ever so much, I've enjoyed your company.

120

I'm a bit of a nutter but not that mad.

MP You've got to go outside to smoke.

[Interview Ended]

21

Tape Reference No: MP/3

41 7 2

22

Case Ref:

Signatures.. "

Exhibit No.

MP.31

No. of pages

20

i" ',,

4113

• ÿ- -- ÿ--iÿ ÿ

M. Pick

Tape Reference No: MP/2

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH 120

• ON SATURDAY 16TM FEBRUARY 2008 @ 10:34 AM

MP

=

Civilian Officer Michael Pick

DP

=

Dawn Pearce

120

=

120

[Tape 2 commences] 120

136 was so deep, like if we were sitting in there 136 would say nuthin, but if we were on our own she would, she said um, what did she tell me, we were on the, we were on

the run, I know we were running like hell. 136 as you go up the stairs, right listen to me, as you go up the stairs there's a bathroom there, right 136 was having a bath but there was no lock on it so that she, I've never seen J 136 run so fast, she was, ah she was naked, I said to 136 "what the fuck are you doin" 136 I call her but she come in she goes "he's after me, he's after me" but she was bleedin down from the vagina, do you understand, and I turned around and I said, 136 what's going on" she was only a 136 is, she still is baby, you know how , you know and seeing I said "oh, we'll do a bunk tonight". So as we ran away, me and 136 I looked up and I said to her I wonder what happened, he come in and he done it to me, he only forced her that's why she was bleeden.

bastard. He raped her, she was only, tw...

MP In the bathroom 120

In the bathroom, and I'll show you the ba, when I can, I know the Haut de la Garenne better than anyone, I meant to say that you got a girl sittin on the windowsill, a bit bigger than that a little, high up and she was just singing that song for, Drummer Boy,

she had a beautiful voice MP What was her name? 120

, I don't know her second name though, um she would always have her nose in the book, quite intelligent little girl you know, that's the one I was telling you about. The next minute she thought the staff were coming in, she only jumped out the bloody window and we were all looking down, it splattered, just gone, dead

MP Oh right

1

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Page 2

41 7 4

120 I mean it wasn't fulmy

MP She just jumped out of the window 12 She just, she was that frightened, she just jmnped out, she was very young, placid sort 0 of girl you know what I mean but this st .... MP Did the police come and, anybody come 120

Oh, no the police weren't involved, the police wasn't involved when hanged himself and it' s funny how a person can hang themselves when their hands are tied on the back. You know that place I was telling you

MP That's the one in the boiler house 120 Ah he, he, he, he's in the, this is another one this is

MP Oh go on then 120

This, and was lovely, oh he was, I know he wore glasses and that and he was, he wore glasses, he had brown hair, quite slim, tall I'd say about 15 years of age and he was in the 'B' in the back room (indistinct) Haut de la Garenne, you see you got 'B'

wing MP Yeah 120 Then you go up the stairs don't you, yeah, and then you got another stairs up and his room was there, then you go in there and you got 'A' wing, right but he was hanging

MP Did you see him? 120 See him, I never ran, I never shit myself so much in all my life, I ran like, oh God

Ahnighty did I run MP What was he hanging from? 120

It looked like a, I don't know, I just looked at him he, he, he only had his socks on, he 136 was naked, myself and looked, we looked at each other, so let's just get the fuck out of here and it was horrible, well God Almighty I must have been coming on to 13

MP Right 120

And 136 12, I just looked and that he was 15 as I know that as he wanted to go to university, he was always on about that, he was always playing his stupid guitar and that but he, he was lovely, was and he used to smoke in his room because the staff didn't, couldn't see us, you know when you're naughty little kids like and the next minute um he was just, I can't understand it, the way he were, he was just, hands tied up behind his back if you know what I mean and his socks on, I was just lookin at him and I said 'this is not real' and she goes 'yes it bloody well is' and 136 dragged me, I could, we just ran down the other stairs, ran out the back door actually, well it wasn't back door actually, it wasn't a back door it was the, I'd run down the stairs, there's a toilet, the girl, the boys toilet there and the girls toilets there, so we jumped through the

2

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4175

men's', the boys toilets and we done a rumaer over the fields around to my lnum's and

told nay mum about it

MP

Did the police come to that one? No, you shook your head did you?

120

I don't know darling

MP Okay 120

All I know is my mother made um a complaint about it and I went down t with my Aunty which was my mother's aunty, does that make sense and this 377 is the one who committed suicide over this, and I'll never forgive the police over this, because I know they are all bloody involved in it. I stayed down her

place for about a week and I thought ah sod it I might as well go back and face the music because they kept hassling my mother, them from the Haut de la Garenne and I

know they wanted us little brats back as they called us, but I still say I don't care what anyone says the police must of known something about it and we say that if you got a child whose running away from the children's home constantly, you gonna think aren't you, but they didn't think, not one of them bloody bastards have MP What else can you tell me about the place? 120 It was a shit hole MP What about yourself, I know you mentioned being raped in that room 120 I don't like getting pulled by the hair

MP Who used to do that to you 120 ? 120

, she weren't much older than me though and she was a member of staff, I thought she was a right fucking old cow but there was a couple I loved and I wonder

and I hope to God there still alive,

and

MP Why did you like them? 120 They were so kind

MP Where were they from? 120 E

I think it was n I'm not a hundred percent sure but they had a dog called used to follow me oh and it was company

MP What sort of dog was it 120

he was beautiful he were

MP Right, how long were they there for? 120 Ah, I can, I dunno know MP Who else, who else do you remember, I see that's brought back good memories, you've

got tears in your eyes, yeah who else was there?

3

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Page 4

41 7 6

120 They were, they were the most kindest people I ever met MP Good I'm glad to hear somebody was kind to you 120

They drugged me up when I was a kid, not

and

, they were rock solid

MP They as in who? 120

Them bastards and don't mention that

fucked up pig, he is

MP Who? 120

Charles SMITH

MP Right 120 Evil and fucking b, I hope she' s, I think

6

aid she was dead, I hope she is fucking

dead MP Tell me about him then 120 He was in charge of childcare

MP Childcare at the home 120 All of it, all of the chi..

MP Outside the home 120

All of it right, (whistling)

MP Charles SMITH 120

Charlie SMITH

MP Charlie SMITH 120

bastard, I hope he's dead, oh knowI don't, I hope he suffers cause ifhe's

dead he's not going to feel anything is he MP What, why don't you like him then 120 He knew dam well what was going on

MP And, and 120

He's got high, let me get the name of it, you got Wellington Park, right take Wellington Park and I'll get the name of it, High, Highlands College, Highlands College, right it used to be a Monks place but they made it into like how can I put it, um Highlands College that's right but it was a urn, they made it into childcare, they moved from ah Regents Street, to childcare now I'm talking, I'm going back a good few years now but

4

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 5

41 7 7

they moved out to there, there was Barbara CHAPEL who nicked my fucking dog, bitch, anyway that gave me, little , anyway

MP Whose 120

?

Um she was domestic in um Haut de la Garenne, again she was lovely but I suppose she's up in the heavens now, God bless her urn, Barbara CHAPEL and there was a woman, then you got what's his name, ah Charlie SMITH

MP And he was in charge of all childcare 120 Yeah, at the time, then you got BYGRAVES, Barbara BYGRAVES

MP Right 120 I forget her name, I know something BYGRAVES, then you got HUNT, don't ask me her first name

MP Right 120

I remember her, I can picture her face, she had Some of them weren't too bad but the rest of them were, when I was little I ran away from the Haut de la Garenne and they arrested me again. They took me back to Highlands College so I was sitting on the steps. Barbara, I said Barbara, I said Barb, Barbara CHAPEL, she sat down next to me and I must have been about well 11 if that and I looked at her because your mum's got a problem like I was and I looked at her, I said my mum's an alcoholic and she looked

at me sort of really as though God where did you get that from even thought they doped me up all the time you know, it was a liquid like that they used to give me and if I didn't take it they used to put it down my mouth ah have that you fucker THOMPSON ha ha.

MP What colour liquid 120 ? 120 Pardon

MP What colour liquid? 120 White, it was that it looked like water, it tasted horrible MP Do you know what it was? 120 Ask Dr FOGERTY know doubt that bastard's dead

MP Why were they giving you that? 120 Cause you know when a kid is so, what you call it, by, hy, what's the word, hy, hyperactive

MP Hyperactive 120 Yeah, I was like that all the time because you know what I mean I didn't want them to beat me, but they did beat me in the end because I can't read and write through them

5

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 6

41 7 8

properly, you know what I mean eh, so they, so they would take the piss out of me, they've got the better of me obviously

MP Why didn't you like the Doctor, Dr FOGERTY did you say 120 He was a psychiatrist, I didn't want, to need see a psychiatrist, there was nothing wrong with my head, I didn't want to go there

MP How often did you have to see him then? 120 Every week, then a gynaecologist which I can't have children now thanks to Mr bloody

MP Why, why did you have to see the gynaecologist? 120

Because I had a heavy, heavy, heavy monthly and it wasn't blood, blood it was like

coated with this, it was like clots of blood coming out and I thought, at first I thought I was pregnant after what he did to me

MP In that room? 120 Yeah, oh no that's not the first time and it wasn't the fucking last MP Well, I was going, I was going to ask you that a bit later on but why you mention it 120 He was a pervert but that...

MP How many times do you think it happened? 120 About three or four times MP What around the same age? 120

Yeah I was coming on and then, I must have been, ah who did I tell, oh yeah 174 told, well I told my mother, her hands were tied but my mother was just my mum you know, my mother in it, she was an alcoholic, she couldn't help

like you know MP Is your mum still alive? 120 My mother died when I was 18 MP Okay, I'm sorry 120

It's alright, not one day that goes by when I was at home that I don't think of her thought, only a woman she was beautiful yeah I went to the funeral, I

watched her die actually MP That must have been hard 120

There is nothing you could do when it was of the , when you were bleeding from the nose, the mouth and the ears. I rang up the ambulance and they said there was nothing they could do for her, it just comes out everywhere doesn't it really, I

6

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 7

was just staring out her, I didn't have the heart to tell

6

41 7 9

and just

MP But you told

174

120 About the rape

MP Yeah 174 120 Yeah, hen I was 12, he come up, that's the first time I met thought he was a copper actually, myself and 136 looked at each other.

174

[

MP Is he older than you 120

Yeah,

years older than me

174

is but we got to know each other over the

week, he got some funny ah, what did he say, the words to me, cause he was very deep,

because what's the matter with you, you're walking funny, I shouldn't laugh and then I 174 sat down and I burst out crying and I told I never seen a bloke go so doolally in my life, I thought he was going to kill him, you know, that's when it stopped when I was about 12, I was coming on to 13

MP What stopped? 120 The rape

MP Right 120

Well it's not rape, I don't know what it was, I mean I was only a kid, you know you're petrified, you know you can't say anything, then I think what does sex mean to you, he looked at me you see my brother's taller than me like you know, he said what you mean about sex, cause we're all Catholics like you and they don't believe in sex before marriage, you know what I mean, they're ah, 174 was raging you know he bought me an ice cream, we were at Gorey village and you got the Secret Gardens there, and he bought me a cup of tea and a bun and a ice cream, kind of him weren't it

MP Jersey cream, go on

120

And then he goes when we walk back, he goes, I don't know, he goes, 'I'll kill the bastard' and that's all he said, now we're walking back, you got Gorey village, then

you got steps which leads up to (indistinct), I told you which leads, you got different ways of running away from that place, I know that place like the back of my hand believe me, you could blindfold me and I know it, you go up the stairs, up the steps, up 174

that way an

looked at me and he goes, 'I will, I will personally kill the fucking

bastard', so we were walking up hand in hand and my brother an awful habit of holding my hand because I was a lot smaller than him like you know, walking over, yes the

police did get involved MP Right, and what 120

174

ot arrested for GBH

MP On

7

Tape Reference No: MP/2

120

Page 8

4180

he hit him

MP Did you see him hit him 120 Cause I didn't, I ran a bloody mile away, 174 s mental when he starts, when, I look I said 174 leave it, he wouldn't leave it, can you blame him, really MP So he gets arrested 12 0

174

ot arrested, he punched this lunatic in the head and I was standing there, and they were

MP So what happened to

?

120 When he went flying MP Yeah, no I mean in relation what he had done to you 120

Nothin

MP Nothin, nothing at all, 120

Nothin

MP But CG

174

ets arrested

174 got arrested

MP Was it mentioned as to what happened to you 120

No

MP That never got mentioned at that time, but 120

174

174

knew

knew, my older brother, he goes I will be back for you, that's all he said,

said, but they barred him for coming up to see me then, bu

174

did leave me

alone after

MP How much longer was

working there after that

120 Phew, hang on a minute you got me confused there now mate, cause I know he didn't come near me, a 174 said not to walk down the corridor on my own um

MP Good advice 120 I'm not too sure, I think, he was married to a woman called truth I don't know how long he was there for

um to tell you the

MP It's alright, I'd rather you said, you say that than say something that um you're not sure about 120 No, I don't, I don't know

8

Tape Reference No: MP/2

IvIP So is there just

Page 9

41 81

hat you're talking about that has raped you whilst you were

in the home? 120

He was just, no that the other staff was, how can you put it, ah there is something else I got to tell you, um wasn't only a rapist, he was a fucking bully, I used to see him pulling boys hairs around and that you know, you know what I mean he was just an arsehole as far as I'm concerned and he, I don't know,

MP

.

120

MP 120

yeah He was married to ah God what was her name, I can't remember his name, I think it was or something like that, not hundred percent sure but anyway he was a you know what I mean and she was

MP Is there anything else about him, you were saying that he was a 120

He could be shitty sometimes you know what I mean, he never, he used to give you a back hander, I going to say that the hand was like a shovel in the face, he didn't like

how can I put it, it was like that his hands MP His two hands, his hands were too big 120

136 , ah 136 again, she was like a little sister to me, you'll love her when you meet her, we are trying to get contact with each other, 136

Yeah, yeah and what did we do

anyway he smacke I looked at him, I though you fucking bastard, I got this brick and I threw it at him, hit on the forehead like that, oh the biggest mistake 136 I ever done, (singing) well he shouldn't hit her, she was is yeah MP Why was it a mistake then

120

120 Because he beat the fuck out of me, I couldn't walk for a bloody week

MP Oh right 120

He was a, I mean to say a jumping up and down on me, he was urn, you know like a trampoline like you know, I was only sticking up for my mate, she was like a little sister to me

MP Did he injure you then? 120 Yeah, on the hips and that, that's why I couldn't walk, I thought you little bastard MP What, what, how did he injure you, you say your hips 120 He hit me and he started kicking me about like I was a football

MP Right

9

Tape Reference No: MP/2

120

Page 10

41 8 2

I'll never forget that, and he was a and I mean he was than and that's saying something, in it, no I didn't thilÿ it was fumay at all. I only stuck up for 6 my mate and she had no sisters you see, she classed me an s sisters and we 136 classed her as our little sister, she was lovely was

MP Who else, who else..

120

There was , and I wonder what she was on about on the phone with 6 6 , I am very close to by the way 6 , and um , we called her ' ', we got nicknames for each other like you know. I'm walking down the corridor with 136 I said what, and I thought I was imagining things, head down and she ha n hair thing with hair you know, l said 136 what the fuck's going on here' and , it was, you could tell if its tears, crocodile tears or whether its coming from the heart you know, you get brought up with that and it was literally coming from the heart. I looked at her and I said, what's the matter, he's done it, he's done it'. Do you know what that girl ended up having a

baby, a little boy [slapping noise]

MP By 120

if he is still alive and is man'ied to

but

um the bath, the bathroom had, the bathroom alright, as you go in, you got the front door there and you go, you go in, you got the field, you got the playing field ain't you, alright you got all that there right and you go up the steps, a couple of steps, you go in there, there was like 2, if I remember there was 2 baths together, what they used to do to us when we were kids, it was just always on the weekend, I reckon they were out their heads or there was something on the weekends, especially a Friday. Well we used to run away on a Thursday to get away from them, maybe a Wednesday because it 6 was better, you were in the clear then aint ya. We, I said to I said good night 6 like, I gave a kiss goodnight like you know, we were close like you know, she was in one room and I was in the other, next minute carted down stairs screaming and

shouting, well of course there going to screw you, you figured they're going to bloody 6 kill you, I had s cold and I was freezing cold, it was a winters night, I think it was October sometime, had me in there and I was screaming and they were ducking me

in and they were laughing, come unstuck and I said to MP That's 120

and the rest of the staff, and I thought oh I could 6 what and they put in the bath with me

6

6 , they starved 6 for 3 days in the detention room and that, its like a 6 prison cell, I told you about that, that is wrong. I thought me and are very close when we were children and we still are close so I thought hang on a minute where, where the hell is she, breakfast time, I thought where is she, come tea time no turn up on 6 , I thought I'd do a trot I thought she had done a bunk, a bunk means..

MP Run off, yeah 120

136 Yeah, I goes, I said I said I got to make it back to my mum's tonight, she says I come with you, we crossed fields, God knows what else, the mental institution we had to cross, I'm surprised I didn't even end up there. See we

MP What's that called?

10

Tape Reference No: MP/2

120

Page 11

4183

6 St Saviours. ended up there 18 months thanks to them bastards, ah god 6 , mum goes I thought almighty, anyway I get down to my ma's, I said where's she was with you, I said no she's not, ah they come along and we went back again.

They didn't lock us up, because we weren't out overnight if you know what I mean and 6 then I said where's , they said in the detention room thanks to 6 that fucking S bitch, so what happened was they let out after 3 days, I said what's the matter with you, she was crying ah them eyes, hair right and I look at her and I said to her urn, you okay, she says I'm starving, I said what do you mean you're starving, they didn't feed me for 3 days, ah 2 days, I said 6 I said you were locked in there for 3 bloody days. What did 120 go and do,

you got the kitchen there then you got like, um well you got like, what you call like hot plates, well they were quite big on that side which leading into the what you call it room. I said you sit down in there and I'll sort you out but

MP Why didn't they feed her 12 Because their bastards, that was her punishment 0

MP What had she done? 120 I think she tried to commit suicide that time, she jumped in Gorey Pier if I remember

rightly so they decided to put her into the detention rooms okay MP So they brought her back and put her in the detention room 120 Yeah, they're very nice people,

MP

120 She's a

hen, where is she from or.

bitch

MP Alright 120 She. MP Is she staff?. 120 She was

at the time

MP Right, so she's under THOMPSON then 120 At the time, cause

ft and don't ask me when, what time that bastard left,

um (singing) MP And 120

omes and takes his place

202 Yeah but we was hoping it would be 202 um er name was, she was, she was brought up with us when we were kids but she went over and done child care, lovely 202 was. There was another woman over there, um I don't care what people what they are, they can do what they bloody like as far as I'm concerned but she was a but she left and I remember she had hair..

MP Can you remember her name?

11

Tape Reference No: MP/2

120 No,

6

Page 12

4 3 84

does

NIP Okay 120 It's a pity I can't, I, I haven't got my bloody phone, I can't ring of credit though, she should be ringing me

MP Do you speakto 120

6

6

it's a waste

?

I speak to 6 a lot, um, ah she was a, I don't know she must have seen a hell of a lot because I remember her, ah I could picture her, she walked down the corridor and she was cryin, now this is the

one I'm talkin about, she was, an, and I mean

cryin and she said to Morag, Morag was a bloody, we used to call her horse face..

(laughing).. MP Is Morag a different person to.. 120 Ah, ah

MP Why? 120

Um, sh, she was as well but I mean to say 6 says everyone of them was but they weren't, a lot of them were English, urn, Jersey and some of them were alright you know what I mean, that, you know you get good and bad in everyone in life you know..

MP What about Morag then? 120

Morag, horse, horse mouth, um (laughing) I shouldn't laugh really but she did have a horse mouth. Morag was strict but okay, you know what I mean, she was alright, 202 was alright..

MP But 120

you didn't get on with..

6 I couldn't stand her for what she did to , I'll never forgive her, I hope she, she had a sister called , as you're walking down that corridor like I told you, right, I put these away, you got the corridor there and that's the way they go, ah you go there..

MP Opposite the entrance, main entrance..

120 No, no, here, this is the back then on top of that it's B, that's where we were, but you got gates..

MP Yeah 120 There the wall was stopped there, there was her flat where

were

MP Right 120 Do you understand what I'm saying?

12

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 13

4185

MP Yes, Yeah 120

, they were like chalk and cheese,

was

as far as I was

6 concerned. was a cow for what she did to , I'll never forgive her but ended up pregnant, don't ask me who by (laughing) madness ain't it but she was lovely, she had really dark.. MP You don't, you don't know who by? 120

Um,

MP Or you're not telling me?. 120 No, I don't know

MP That's okay 120

Honest to God I don't know, if I knew, I mean to say she had different people going into the, that flat there, she was a lovely, oh alright she was , I think she was a bit younger than um but she was alright but it was was, I thought that was Hitler's

wife MP Right and she's the one that put your 120

in detention..

Detention rooms and that was over 6 wanting to come, I don't know what happened to 6 , half the time they separated us if you understand what I'm saying, they separated us and I said as you watch, actually I nearly got drowned my bloody self.

MP Nearly got.. 120 Drowned myself, I had to dive in the bloody Pier after her..

MP After

6

?

120 Mm, she wanted to commit suicide, we were just, you know .. MP Yeah..

120 We were both working there well I was 15,

6

was 17, no

MP What did they used to do there, what did 120 MP 120

6 And um, we're coming out of there one night me and and obviously we had given mother some money, you know what I mean see the mum alright, I was 15 and 6 there was, I said 'I'll catch you up later ', that's what I called , 6 she says 'okay' the next minute I didn't see for two weeks I wondered where

13

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Page 14

41 8 6

the hell she was. I hunted the bloody island out for her. No one told me, she was only in the ward thank you very much

MP What's that ward for? 120 Urn, psychiatric

MP Right, okay 120

6 And I went in with the , you know didn't even recognise me, didn't 6 recognise me at all. I said to her it broke my bloody heart. ' I said 'what' s the bloody matter with you' she just looked at me like I'm, she was just like urn, I looked at my mum and said 'I think we'd better go'. Then they put her in St Saviours, that's what cracked me up, then I ended up in La Moye which is the prison and that's the best time

of my life MP So you said, so you said, let me take you back to the children's home then, you mentioned the grounds, what was out in the grounds? 120 The grounds, they got a lot ofdiggin up to do ain't they

MP Why? 120 You know the dolmons

MP The what? 120 The dolmons, its called the dolmons, you got Haut de la Garenne there, you go across the field just around the corner between the bushes, you got a couple hanging up..

MP Couple of what? 120 Bodies from Haut de la Garenne, I wonder why..

MP Who were they? 120 I mean, some of them I didn't know their names but I know there was one called

MP Right 120 And on, ah..

MP What were they hanging from? 120 A tree

MP What, both at the same time? 120

Two of them, yeah but I don't know the other one, I don't know whether he was from Haut de la Garenne or whether he was from Le Preference, but with the Preference, you see you got St Martin's, do you know what I mean darlin, you got St Martin's then you got Gorey but you can go down the route and we all used to team up together, the kids, if you know what I mean and um he was from Le Preference

14

Tape Reference No: MP/2

NIP That's

41 8 7

?

120 No, MP

Page 15

was from the..

was from Garenne

120

as from where I was but the other lad was from Preference..

MP What happened to them then? 120 They just ha, I don't know, just hanged theirselves, I don't know, I don't know what was goin on..

MP Why, why do you say 'you got some digging up to do?' 120 Well more than likely you got a lot of bodies there, there ain't there.. MP Do you know for certain there's bodies there? 120 I wouldn't be surprised MP Was it something you'd seen 120

120

it is quite important, is it something you've seen?

This, this is all goin to come back on me, you know that, you know if I tell you everythink, it's going to come back on me because these people are devils and their demons..

MP We need as much information from you as you can give us 120 The field next door, the field next door

MP Sorry? 120 The field next door

MP Which side are we looking at? 120 Well you're drivin up ain't you, well, well it depends which way you're comin ain't you MP I've brought with me a map, plan an aerial plan of the children's home 120 Oh God it's not the children's home, that's the devil's home.. MP Well it's not now, cause it's been done up, it's a

120 Well I wouldn't bloody be surprised, ha, ha MP So you're telling me you come through the main entrance 120 Hang on a minute, let me have a look at this..

15

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 16

4188

MP The main entrance is down at the bottom where you are now look, that's the road at the bottom..

120 Yes

MP I would think it's probably altered quite a bit from when er 120 Why have they done that?, what, what they doin to it, they fucking it up ain't they MP It's a, er urn, making a youth hostel and something else as well 120 Ha, ha, poor bastards, that's where he sprained his ankle

MP Where? 120 Rulming from there MP Let me see, [ can't see

120 That's where he sprained his ankle, that's brilliant ha, ha

MP That's the left hand side of the road near these buildings on the left there, yeah, is this the field that you're talking about, the field in the grounds 120 That's the field ain't it

MP That's the field on the right that you're talking about? 120 Yeah, but there's the main entrance, right you go in there, you got the garage there ain't you..

MP That's on the right yeah, near them three white blocks yeah.. 120 But there was the detention rooms, there was, oh poor MP Tell me about

um there

?

120 She was

MP What happened to

?

120 That was my favourite staff MP Yes, yeah, yeah, and is that where she was, she lived then? 120 Yeahjust off on the top there, that's where

was

MP And on the bottom right, just above the entrance yeah.. 120 Yeah, see there.. MP That's the left-hand corner, yeah

16

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 17

41 8 9

120 Yeah

NiP On the front 120 Along there

MP Halfway down 120 Yeah, the top was where that girl used to sing rum, ta, tun tun

MP Oh right, the one that jumped out of the window 120 Jumped out the window but I don't know, we just looked out and all we seen was this

speck body MP Do you think she died? 120 Well obviously she must of died, because all we seen was a speck body MP Could you, no, what was down that side, down the left-hand side 120 Down there, give me that I'll show you, down ere you come out of it, you got that ain't you

MP You go halfway down, yeah 120 Yeah, the, the dorm was up there, then you got like a little boiler room, the side there we used to..

MP Was that the boiler room you were talking about? 120 No, no, no the boiler room is on that side

MP Alright 120 No inside there, down that way, there MP Yeah..

120 Then you got the little steps coming out there, then you got the laundry there MP Yeah..

120 No sorry MP The laundry room front left, yeah 120 No, no hang on um you got the bathroom then you got the..

MP Which bathroom, the bathroom you were talking about? 120 Yeah, then you got upstairs..

17

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 18

41 90

MP With urn, who was the one you say was raped in the batlv'ooln? 120 I think it was

MP

..

yeah

120 But there, that's where we, that's the last time I seen

, that's my

MP Right before he left and went home and hunghimself, yeah 120 Yes

MP Yeah, yeah 120 I hate them bustards for it, but there, just in there was a little boiler room, but there in there, there was like a little hut, sort of thing, that's where we used to go in. MP What, for a smoke? 120 Yeah. MP Yeah. 120

Hah!

MP It's not, it's not the boiler room on the back then? 120

How are they doing?

MP Tell me about them then. 120

391, 383

there was .

MP Are these, are these kids that were in there or staff?. 120

No, no, no, no, they were children and uhm.

MP What age would they be then? 120

Younger than me. Uhm, it was penicillin, as per usual.

- I was looking out the window, I was on

MP Looking out of what window? 120

The window- you've got the swimming pool there ain't you, round (indistinct) where's the swimming pool from here?

MP I think it's under that cover isn't it? Isn't it under there. Is that right? 120

Yeah, that's it.

18

Tape Reference No: MP/2

Page 19

41 91

MP Is that the right position for it? 120

Yeah, hang on. Right, I'm looking out the window.

MP

Can't see what you're doing. Yeah.

120

And there's a little swimming pool for the little 'uns to swim in.

MP

Yeah.

120

Now,

was no bigger than a grasshopper's kneecap, wasn't even about 3, I

wouldn't even say 2.

MP What age did they go in there then? 120

Uhm, any age I suppose.

MP Okay. 120

So, uhm, the staff standing around, like around that area, right, you know.

MP Yeah, yeah. 120

Yeah, yeah. See, like that.

MP Yeah. Around the edge of the pool yeah. 120

Yeah, and you got a little boy. And he is face down in the pool and they're laughing at this. And I'm banging on the window and in the end I screamed.

MP So where were you then. Were you in the building then? 120

I was in the building. I screamed to F

ho was standing say like that.

MP Right. 120

It was F

MP

F

120

P

god bless him he's dead. He, he saved his life. What's

name?

MP

120

MP 120

Don't know the name.

You don't know. Sorry. I keep doing that to you. Was that not covered in then when you were there? No.

MP That was just an open swimming pool.

19

Tape Referenee No: MP/2

120

Page 20

41 9 2

That was an open swimming pool. But the little 'un - you got a little swimming pool there.

[Tape Ends]

20

LA CEY ADV OCATES

Independent Jersey Care Inquiry

Historic Abuse Redress Scheme Documentation 120

Application Form and Supporting Documentation

Consent of claimant has been obtained

1

~

States ~

of jersey Hjstorjc Abuse Redress Scheme -Application Form

Established in respect of Historic Child Abuse suffered when in the Full-Time Residential Care of the States of Jersey: 9 May 1945 - 31 December 1994

The completion of this Application Form is required in order to consider your claim for financial compensation. Therefore. please take time to provide the requested information as accurately and as fully as possible. The States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozannes, may require additional information in respect of the content of this Application Form if considered necessary to evaluate and process your claim. If there is insufficient room for any answer, a separate sheet may be attached to this Application Form

1.

Personal details

Forename: 120 Surname:

120

Any former names or names by which known whilst in care: 120

Contact telephone number: Date of birth:

1962

Place of birth: St Helier, Jersey

When submitting this Application Form, please provide certified copies of any two of the following: (a) passport; (b) driving licence; (c) birth certificate; (d) marriage certificate; (d) a recent utility bill;

(e) any other official document confirming your identity

2

2.

Claimant's representative (if appointed)

Name of representative: .. ;.!!'!!!'.9.~--~~~-I.I..~P.I.t~!!~.~~---··············· ........ Grove Place Bedford!........... MK40 3JJ Address of representative: .32 ························ .. }................ . .......... ·························· ·············· ..................................................................................... ......................................................................... ._.................................................. .

Relationship of representative to you:_~.Y..~9.!!.~~-~~9.~.................................................................... .

3.

Details of care

Dates when in the full-time residential care of the States of Jersey: .......................................... . Oetober--1-962 - - La.C~~che- ·························--······································ · · ···· ···················· ·················· G:t~I9..~9..t~?.~.:-..'.'tr:t..~m9..9.!Jt9.f..~.~x~~:....................................................

.......................................

1973 to 1978 - Haut de Ia Garenne Care Home(s) in question: Please see above

Any relevant family background (if known): When I was 6 months old I was placed into the care system of the States of Jersey.

MV "fil'St""placeme·nt·was· r~· creclle·care·11om·e-: --Ft6ttrthat ·p~l'fod· o·n;· rwa~· rn·~n·d ·but ····

of care.

Names of any other children in care who were your friends or associates when in care: ........................ . ............ ...................... .............................................. ..................... ...... .. .... ... ........ . ............................................ . 136, 147, 171, 43

······ ................ ...... ..................................................... ·· .. ......................................

2

3

~

States ~ of 4.

Jersey

Abuse alleged to have taken place

The following information is required to evaluate and process your claim. If there are events or matters you feel unable to commit to writing, please contact your representative or the States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozannes, in order to discuss how to proceed. Detail if lengthy may be set out in a separate sheet to be attached to this Application Form

Detail of abuse: .§.E?.'.<.Y.~.I....P.hY.~lc;:l?.I...~D~U~!TI.
Perpetrator(s) of abuse:

,·n;·en;be·

5.

of Haut de Ia Garenne);

·.............................. .........................

Complaints of abuse

If you complained or confided in any other person at the time or shortly thereafter'ln"reiation

t.o..!~~-~-~-l_J-~-~-!~.9.t.J.~~-~iC?~.~.P.!~~-~~--~C?.~n~~--~9.-~~9.~. Y..C?.t.J..~~~P.!~!~~~--9.~.)0..~-~.C?~. Y
what you advised them and of any action taken they or you took as a result: ... ............... , .. . .. .... ............ ...... ...... . .. . ......... .. ............. ....................... . . ......... . ......... -- .......................... .............................................. In February 2008 I made a statement to police in relation to the sexual, Pt1~§!~.~L~n~L~mg.ti
~

4

~

S tare~ ~ o fje r~e y 6.

Criminal proceedings

Please confirm if you provided a statement to the States of Jersey police as part of the NO historic abuse inquiry: Please confirm if any previous police statements have been provided in relation to the abuse YES to any police force at any time: If YES, please specify the (approximate) date(s) of any statement(s) provided to the police: Police statement dated 16 February 2008

If YES , by submitting this Application Form you are giving your unconditional consent to the release of all such police statements to Mourant Ozannes in order to consider your claim. If NO, please explain the reason for not providing a statement to the police: ..........................

Please confirm whether to your knowledge any of the persons named as abusers have been (whetber found guiltY..Pr not) ir:1 an)!.jJ.u:ts.oic~j Pr:t .and ..Qive..aoy detail known to you: ~~bject.to . cijmiD.al.pro<;eeding,s

r·ao··nofT<"now·wfietne·r-crTmin-aT·proceearngs·navifo·een·iii"sti9~itecra"Qalns"f ·any· o·rn;y- ··· abusers .

................................. .... ...... ....... ...... . ------·· ........................................... ................................................................... ........... .............................. _... . Please confirm if you have ever given evidence in any criminal proceedings in relation to the ~Q.V.~-~--~mUf. sg_§tP.~~--ttl~-~-qurt.~.r:td..~RPCO'.<.i.rn'ilt~ .Qf!l~..e.vj.d~nc;:e..w.'il.~..si.Y.~D ~- .......•.......•.....•.•..•. _.

·····---~·-··· -

···-----·--........ -- ... .No. ........................................................ ······-···· ................ ······•···•· .....................·······-

.................. ............................................................................... -· ... . ...........................·--··-··· ................................................... ···········......... .

... ................................ .. ............. .............................. ......................................................................................................... ........ ........ . ~

............

....

...................... ....................................... ............ .............. . ........................................................................ ......................... ................... .

4

5

~~

Stares ~

ofJersey 7.

Criminal Injuries Compensation Board application/award

Please confirm if you have previously submitted a claim for compensation in respect of historic child abuse to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in Jersey: NO If YES and you did submit a claim, please confirm the outcome and the amount of any compensation received by you: historic abuse inquiry: ...................................................... ..

If YES , by signing this Application Form you are giving your consent to the release of all papers· held· by1he--Criminal·lnjorres· Competrsation ·Boarct-in·respect·uf·your·daim··and the outcome of it.

8.

Previous c ivil proceedings

Please confirm if any previous civil proceedings have been threatened or commenced by you or on your behalf against any party in relation to the allegations of abuse: : NO If YES, please provide the details and the outcome :

6

~

Sta tes ~ of j ersey 9.

Claimant's personal declaration

By signing this Application Form, I acknowledge and confirm that: (a)

I consent to the States of Jersey Police releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statement I have made in relation to an allegation of historical abuse;

(b)

I consent to any police authority releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statements made in connection with any alleged abuse;

(c)

I consent to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any claim submitted by me for financial compensation for any alleged abuse and any award made in my favour;

(d)

I consent to the disclosure of th is application form to the States of Jersey Police and the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board;

(e)

I acknowledge and accept that in order for my claim to proceed, I may be required to meet with and discuss my claim with a psych iatrist in order that a psychiatric evaluation/report be prepared for the purposes of considering the compensation claim. I confirm that I agree to co-operate fully in such a report being prepared and provided to Mourant Ozannes and further agree that any material obtained pursuant to this application form may be shared with the psychiatrist preparing the report;

(f)

I agree that to the best of my abilities I will otherwise co-operate fully with Mourant Ozannes in providing information relevant to the determination of my compensation claim and to provide any relevant material in my possession to Mourant Ozannes for that purpose;

(g)

Save as explained above, I confirm that I have not received any form of damages or compensation from any source in respect of any of the allegations put forward in this Application Form;

(h)

I confirm that any records held by the States of Jersey, including social services records, hospital records, education records, medical records and mental health records will be reviewed as part of consideration of my claim;

(i)

I consent to the release of my private medical records (including general practitioner records and records held by any hospital or other medical practice, as I detail in the attached authority) to Mourant Ozannes for the purposes of assessing my claim and provide the attached authority for the purposes of obtain ing those records from any medical practitioner(s).

6

7

States . of Jersey 10.

Warning : Risk of criminal prosecution

I understand and acknowledge that the provision by me of any information that I know to be untrue or false , or which I do not believe to be true , with a view to obtaining the payment of financial compensation under the scheme established by the States of Jersey is a criminal offence. As such , I am fully aware that, should the States of Jersey's advisers at any stage become concerned as to the truthfulness of any statements made by me, this Application Form and any other information supplied by me with a view to obtaining the payment of financial compensation will be referred to the States of Jersey Police for investigation and possible criminal prosecution.

11 .

Declaration of truthfulness

By signing below, I HEREBY CONFIRM AND DECLARE the contents of this Application Form to be true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief.

Signed

120

Claimant Signature: ............

120

(Print Name): ... Dated : ...........................

....................................................... .

................................................... ..

{.1/'-/t-6.. .. ................................... ......... ..............................

In the Presence of Signature: ....... ~~-- .. . .............................................. (Print Name and Professional Qualification): . (}

fv.r.kU. . {JJ~c.lfo~~ .}tP..~r!) ............... .

All communications in respect of the Scheme should be addressed as follows :PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL HISTORIC ABUSE CLAIMS Mourant Ozannes 18-22 Grenville Street St Helier Jersey JE4 8PX Tel: (00 44 1534) 676371 Fax: (00 44 1534) 676333

Email: [email protected]

8

Authority for access to Medical Practitioner Records I, hereby authorise the Medical Practitioners listed below to release to Mourant Ozannes of 12 Grenville Street, St Helier, Jersey, JE4 8PX 21! of my records held by them to include, but not be limited to, copies of all consultation notes, hand written notes, computer records, test results, imaging results and any other records held by the medical practitioner. I understand that the request for

s!! records will include everything held by my medical practitioner

whether the medical practitioner considers them relevant to the allegations that I am making or not, so that a full medical history is known.

Signature:

120

Print Name and Address:

Date of Birth:

62

Names of both past and present medical practitioners that you have been registered with since birth:

Date A copy of thrs authorrty shall be deemed to have the same authonty as the original.

8

9

Tape Reference No: MP/3

4151 Signatures

Case Ref:

Exhibit No.

'l\ IP.32r ..v

No. of pages

22

., .~

M.Pick

Tope Reference No : MP/3

TAPE RECORDED INTE RVIE W WITH

120

ON SATURDAY' 16™ .FEBRUARY [email protected] 10:34 AM

MP

=

Civilian Officer Michael Pick

DP

=

Dawn Pearce

120

=

120

(Tape Commences] 120

Out the window. J was on penicillin, as per usual.

MP

Looking out of what window?

120

The window. You got the swimming pool there ain't you, round here, where's the swimming pool from here?

MP

I think it's under that cover, ain't it? Just under there. ls that right?

120

Yeah, that's it.

MP

ls that the right position for it?

120

Yeah, hang on. Right. l'm looking out the window.

ME

Can't see what you' re doing. Yeah.

120

And there's a little swimmjng pool for the little 'uns to swim in.

P 120

Yeah. Now was no bigger than a grasshopper's kneecap. Not even about 3, I wouldn't even say 2.

10

Tape Reference No: MP/3

4152

MP

Right. What age did they go in there then?

120

Uhm, any age 1 suppose.

MP

Okay.

120

So, ulun, the staff sittin' standin' around, like around that area, right, you know? See, like that.

MP

By the edge of the pool, yeah.

120

Yeah. And you've got a little boy and he's face down in the pool and they're laughing, at this, and I'm banging on the window, and in the end I screamed.

MP

So where were you then? Were you in the building then?

120

I was in the building. I screamed to who was standing, say like that, it was , god bless him, he's dead, he saved his life.

MP 120

, what's Uhm,

.MP

'S name? .

••

120

Ob now look, 1don't know.

MP

You don't know. l'm sorry. 1 keep doing that to you.

120

Ulun.

,M})

Was that not covered in then when you were there?

120

No.

MP

Just an open swimming pool?

120

That was an open swimming pool, but the little 'un, you got a little swimming pool t11ere for the toddlers, but he was faced down the pool, the little fucker, , and it was that had to bring him out and I screamed out to ·s still alive which am and give him mouth-to-mouth. Now going to meet, am going back to Jersey shortly,

IMP

What's that for?

120

6 Uhm to see my family. ended up in hospital over this and I gave him don't want nothin to ha en to her. Uhm, yeah, yeah, mouth-to-mouth.

11

Tape Re rerence No: MP/3

tP'

415 3

Right. He obvi ously lived?

120

The little boy Jived, yeah.

MP

That was good.

120

But, he wouldn't have lived otherwise.

MP

120

They've got a lot of diggin up to do. There was one boy, o h it was horrible.

MP

Tell me about it.

120

We ran from you've got Haut De La Garenne, that's a detention room, all l call her, we ran out from this side and run right. So me and 136 across this field, all right, and we hid in the bushes, we got bushes down that way ain't ya? All right. And 1 hid in the bushes, I didn' t hide for fuckin long when 1 seen the hand.

MP

A hand?

120

A band. And 136 goes 'that's a body' and !look and I said "can't be a body" I said "it's a hand".

MP

Where was that then?

120

Down that way.

MP

There's

120

Yeah, I soon bloody ran. I ran back into Haut De La Garenne (indistinct) running from it.

MP

What was the hand doing then?

120

I don't know what the hand was bloody doing. It was just there. Myself and 136 shit ourselves. I was about thirteen, and she was about twelve.

MP

What, just a hand?

120

That's all we seen, just a hand.

MP

What, just laying on top of the ground or ..

120

No, it was like, sort of like, you know like leaves. I don't know whether it was connected to a body to tell you the truth but it was the way I ended up on top of the bloody thing and 136 say's there's a hand. I looked at it and first 1

12

Tape Reference No: MP/3

4154

said don't (indistinct) and out the bloody bushes we ran. Alright we had (Indistinct) on our head.

MP

Did you tell anybody?

120

No.

MP

Do you know if anybody ever found it?

120

Oh, I did, I tell you 1 did, I did. I told

MP

Yeah.

120

god bless him, and

who is a very close friend of mine.

Yeah.

flP

Do you know what they did about it?

120

I know they went to their mothers, uhm, she's dead now, but .

MP

Are you still in touch with rum then, or ..?

120

No uhm I went over to Jersey two year ago to see we are close like, uhm ...

MP

Is that bringing back memories?

120

Could put bomb up fuckin place up to tell you the truth.

MP

What else can you tell me from there 120 ?

120

Lots of thjngs. Its changed, Jersey has changed a lot though, I told you that. It's getting more and more like England.

MP

What else happened up there then?

120

What didn't happen up there? The fields. I notice they didn't put the dolmens there though did they? The dolmens are that way. Across the field that way.

MP

The dolmens being?

120

The dolmens, like the Romans.

MP

Yeah.

120

Oh, they didn't tell you about that did they? The bastards. About that lad that wouldn't give me pocket money. We were down Gorey Hill to go down the bill, that way.

6

, right, obviously

13

Tnpe Reference No: MP/3

4155

MP

To the village, yeah.

120

Yeah. No, not the village.

MP

All right.

120

You got the village that way.

MP

Down to ....

120

The harbow·. Gorey.

MP

The port is it? something port. Yeah.

120

And, uhm, he I said something, my love 'ave never seen anything like this, and this is the first time I seen anyone die. You coming up, you got Gorey Castle, ri ght, we sit down there, myself, 6 and oh 136 sitting down there.

MP

6

120

6

as in? I call her

6

cos she's

MP

Yeah, yes, I'd lost that for a minute.

120

365 So we sit down there and we're waiting for a from Le Preferance to come and I'm looking at this lad to see what the f. ... n hell he is doing and you go round the back of the castle you got rocks, do you understand what I mean and it's one hell of a drop. This Jad was climbing up, I think to myself, he's going to fall but he was from the Haut De La Garenne but he was older than us, be was must have been about fourteen. We were twelve or somethin like that. We were watching, Jesus Christ, that lad we watched him faJI to his death. There was nothing we could do, we couldn't help him, do you know what I mean, we couldn't do nuthin. Say a bit further away say about not even 50 yards that's exagerating and from side of the room to the other and a bit longer if you know what I mean. I said " 6 ' and by the time we got up to him his head was split in two - he only hit the rocks and he was from the Haut De La Garenne. Nothin, notbin said about it, nothin.

MP

Who else was there 120 ?

120

365, 136, 6

and, I saw it.

MP

Just the three of you? Four of you and ....

120

But he ...No, I think there was holidaymakers, I think it was one of the holidaymakers that went to ring for the ambulance and she said she was, what was her name, Mandy, some name, she was from Yorkshire, but she was on

14

Tape Reference No: M P/3

4156

holiday like, and she said "I don't think you ought to be looking at this because you are too young. You could tell that she was experienced like, you know. MP

How old do you think you would be?

120

About twelve at the time. But it was honible, horrible. Did actually I saw the . You boys head and I don't care what anyone I am sure they killed don't tie your hands up and hang yourself.

MP

's the one in the flat at the-top above B wing.

120

It wasn't a flat it was a room.

MP

Room, I meant, sorry.

120

I don't care what anyone says.

MP

But you don' t if the Police came to that or not.

120

They didn't give a shit anyway. They were aJl in one, as far as I'm concemed. I know she's from Jersey and I don't care where she's from.

MP

Just take you back to the map then. You mentioned the hand in that hedge down there. Anything else you know about the land.

120

I know everything about the bloody land.

MP

Tell me about it then.

120

That.

MP

What's that?

"120

You got a house there. You forgetting about the steamroller on that side in it.

l'v1P

Steamroller. What steammller?

120

There was a steamroller there. There was swings there.

MP

Like a play area then?

120

Yeah

MP

What sort of steamroller?

120

Well, a real.

TvJP

A proper one?

15

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

4157

Yeah. What was it doing then?

120

MP

120

Well, there's a dead body there.

MP

Where

120

As you come out of there right. You go down there, you got playing fields there, right?

MP

Put me a cross there where you just marked that. That's it. Yeah. And that's where the steamroller was?

120

And then you've got on that side, you got the seesaw there, you got the swings there.

MP

You just put two crosses, one nearest the house is a seesaw, ones further away are the swings. Yeah.

120

Swings, right. Swings.

MP

Yeah

120

Aw right? Then there's a steamroller there.

MP

Where the line is. Yeah.

120

And you got tbe seesaw tl1ere, seesaw margery door, and you got, there was the body.

MP

What body.

120

Of a young boy. Don't ask me his name because l don't know.

MP

How did he get there then?

120

Well, ask the staff from round the godly place.

P

Where is it? Is it still there?

I don't know darling, I really don't know. Even when 1 went over l Jersey three years ago darlin I would not go near that shit hole. MP

Did you see it being put there?

16

4 1 58

Tape Rderencc No: MP/3

120 '

No.

MP

How do you know it's there?

120

Because me and 136 was playing seesaw margery door.

MP

Yeah.

120

And she noticed the foot. I said "don't be ridiculous" and then I looked "whah". We weren't seesaw fuckin margery door then. I thought, We were on the seesaw weren't we?

MP

Yeah.

120

Then we see the foot.

MP

Foot? What, just explain how the foot was?

120

It was sort of dov.rn, it looked down. It looked like he had been, bow can you explain it, been strangled. You know when you hang someone the foot goes down don' t they. That's how he looked, so it looked like he was carried there.

MP

So was it a full body that was there then?

120

Full body, yeah. He had black hair. I'd say he would have been about my age now, roughly about my age.

MP

All right.

120

Only young.

MP

What happened to him?

120

Look, I nearly got strangled myself and 136 god almighty, I'll never forget that bloody place.

MP

Did you tell anybody?

120

Yeah, I told

MP

But, you don't know what happened to the body?

120

No, no, we can't do nothin we were only kids, you know what I mean?

MP

How old do you think you'd be then?

120

I was comin up fourteen, 136 was thirteen.

MP

Okay.

and told

his mother.

17

4159

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

Yeah, them bushes, they haven · l changed much have they?

J\1P

Anything else about the grounds?

120

Yeah, looking at it love, that's a good place to look on this side though.

MP

That field to the right hand side?

120

Yeah. Where we found the body with the hand.

MP

The hand under the hedge?

120

I don't know whether it was a full body there darling, all I know is it didn't look that old I just staJed at it and 136 was pulling me away like, you know.

MP

Okay.

120

That field was where we used to run across. It's a long walk when you're seven years of age to St Helier.

MP

It would have been a long walk at 47 years of age.

120

Laughs. I'm not that age yet.

MP

Laughs.

120

That's where the detention rooms were. Where the car park is.

MP

Right.

120

Its gotta be.

MP

Bottom right. Oh.

120

Yeah.

MP

What else can you tell me then.

120

I try to remember everything I can. I told

6

1 promised her I would tell

the truth but. MP

That's what I want.

120

I'm telling you the truth. Why is all them cars there now.

I\1P

Because there doing building work. There all builders vans and cars that are doing building work. Spending a lot of money on it. A lot of money.

120

What did you say they're going to do on it?

18

4160

Tape Reference No: MP/3

~ lP

Certainly part of it now is a youth hostel. You know for ramblers and people who want cheap accommodation. I'm not sure, can' t remember what there doing with the rest of it. They' re spending a lot of money on it.

120

Well, they should blow it up.

MP

Making something decent out of it perhaps, eh? Do you think.

120

I don' t know.

MP

So you said to

120

Yeah, ab promised her. I was speaking to her not last night it was Thursday night. Didn't I tell you? Yeah, Thursday night, 1 was talking to her, oh God, doesn't she go on, bloody hell.

MP

Has she spoken to the Police?

120

6 Bouill~n

6

that you'd te II the truth.

Yeah, in Jersey, she was down, uhm, what you call it, Rouge talking to them.

MP

And she told them everything that she knew?

120

Yep. Ugh, She said ... I said to you didn't I darling, r said when she rang up I fought it was a death in the family. -goes to me, " ". I nearly died of a heart attack, she doesn't usually ring me up. When she did ring me up.

MP

Who else do you remember from the Home.

120

I remember quite a few my darling. I want to know what happened to

MP 120

I don't know her second name. She was no bigger than that, she was like a and I want to know what happened to that girl. She was only about

3, 4, say about 4 or 5 years of age and she used to bang her head against the wall. As you go down to the Detention Rooms, right? MP

Yeah.

120

Well, getting frog marched down there. She used to bang her head like that all the time and my heart went out to her. 1 must have been about 14 or someth.in like that, I was always in bloody trouble with them. I kidnapped her and took her to the Battle of Flowers and gave her a candy.

P 120

Oh, right. Okay?

19

Tape Reference No: MP/3

MP

Right.

120

Well, we got caught obviously I come out of the Detention Rooms and she was still banging her head and I looked at her and I went to give her some sweets, and that's the last I seen of that child.

MP

Right.

120

4161

, her name was.

MP

Do you think she could have been fostered out, or?

120

Doubt it.

MP

Doubt it.

120

I mean to say if you are screan1ing at a kid like that, of course you're going to wet yourself. And you don't have to bloody well have to punish them. Bastards. There was only a couple I liked there. The rest of them I couldn't stand, to be quite honest with you. Always hit these bloody relations.

MP

So, we've spoken about you being physically, oh we've not spoken about your broken nose.

120

Oh yes, when he decided to rape me.

MP

That was the first occasion? When he hit you in the face?

120

Yeah, I should have had stitches, don't you dare laugh at me.

MP

That's the first occasion when he takes you in that room?

120

God, it's better if you didn't have a better map.

MP

Well, you've drawn one here haven't you? So that happened on that occasion?

120

Yeah.

MP

Did you go to the doctor's in relatio n to that, 120

120

They wouldn't let me go to the doctor's. Nab, would they fuck?

MP

Did they have a doctor that used to come in then?

120

No, they used to take me down to uhm, what you call it? They could have had a doctor goin up there but he didn ' t see me or what have you. They used to take me see a psychiatrist.

20

4162

Tape Reference No: M P/3

That's him yes, r uggcrty 120

Yes.

MP

You mentioned him.

120

He gave me that, you know, it's about that big, like a cup, they give me, right?

MP

Yeah.

120

they give me, right? The next minute ifl didn't take it they used to put it like ulun, like a needle sort of thing. You know ...

MP

A syringe?

120

Correct. They used to put that, they used to force me like that. I was f ... g about.

MP

But you didn't know what it was?

120

It was Clear.

MP

Clear liquid.

120

I'm still undeLa psychiatrist, do you know that?

MP

Are you.

120

Yeal1. I don' t know his name.

MP

For what? For what?

120

l've still got medication.

MP

What's your psychiatJist's name?

120

J don't know.

MP

You don't know?

120

No. They put me in hospital because I nearly

MP

Right.

120

I told you about that didn't I love?

MP

Was that recently?

again.

21

4163

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

Yeah, all over this. I mean to say I was o ff the drink IQmonths. I was doing really great, but you didn't see me did you? Before I went into lubernation, Helle Uhm, I was off the drink 10 months, cause my partner ....

MP

You told us about him yeah?

120

But (clicking noise) and then this. Okay, so you've told us about your broken nose, you've told us about being on one occasion ... raped by

120

Have you got him?

MP

And on a number of other occasions.

120

You tell me the truth. Have you got the bastard?

MP

I can't tell you one way or the other 120 . I'd love to tell you but leave it with us eh, leave it with us. So be raped you only on the one occasion that you mentioned there but there were, how many other occasions?

120

About three or four.

MP

Three or four occasions. What in the same room?

120

Yeah.

MP

Always in the same room?

120

Yeah , no I tel l a lie. lt wasn't. He got me down by the .... How he got away with it. You know the launderelle and you've got the bathroom there?

MP

Mm.

120

The two bathrooms. He had me in there in the launderette one night. Oh, fuck this. So in the end I kept running away.

MP

Right Was it only him that raped you?

120

He was the only one. There 's somethin I want to tell you.

P

Yeah.

120

There was, how can I put it, you know like

MP

Right.

120

Uhm, they come and go.

MP

What, to the home?

?

22

4164

Tape Reference No: MP/J

120

They come and go. They're were all right, what have you. There was one called was, don't ask me his second name.

7

Some of them , his name

MP

What was he like? Can you describe rum, or ...

120

1 liked him actually, tell you the truth, uhrn, he ended up not welcome for the He ended up doing Now he was in charge of the and am fucking glad because he was lovely. He was very, how can I put it, be wasn 't abrupt, he was firm but fair and ! thought got someone there and that's when everything cooled down.

MP

Right.

120

When he took over and fair play to him, he is in charge of the now back i Jersey, 7 his name was, so if you ever see him give him my regards.

MP

Yeah.

120

Yeah.

MP

Were you going to tell me something about him to start with or is it just that he was good to you.

120

Oh, he was good that's what I was saying.

,MP

Oh right, oh, I thought initially you were going to say something about him.

120

No, no, 1 mentioned and am not over keen on them usually, but he who ended up , I couldn't stand was lovely, but the o and them. Because they knew what was goin on, they were like 6 J get their names. Ifl had my phone I could ring up, ulm1, they knew , you what was goin on, and l don't care what you say, you might be might be this and that but I don't give a shit who you are, if you show me respect I will show you respect . That's my motto. But these.

MP

How do you mean, they knew what was going on?

120

Well, they knew because they were welcome there overnight, weren't they darlin.

MP

They used to stay there?

120

Yeah.

MP

Oh right.

23

Tape Reference No: MP/3

120

Because they were doin that thing for, what you call it, \htiJ~:are. because they had to do that, listen to children's problems with children an all that, well of course we all have bloody problems with them lot. They were our problem not us.

MP

Right.

120

Mind you, we did used to do somethings naughty. You know the kitchen, the door. The chef was always pissed and he used to leave the door open to cabinets and we used to get crisps and everything out there at night.

MP

Midnight snacker.

120

Yeah. We used to do that. Yeah. All kids, all sneaking down the corridor in their little nighties. Yeah, man, yeah too bloody right, until we got bloody caught. And Jaffa Cakes, we used to nick loads of Jaffa Cakes and were all like little rabbits, mmm, mmm!

MP

Can we go back to the Police cadets then?

120

Some of them were good but as far as I am concerned the only one I did get on 7 well with was his name is. He was firm but he was fair, he never laid a hand on us. He used to watch us and he used to look over us, but he never. ..... but the rest of them, I'm trying to get their names, juju juju, Jesus, I haven 't even got my phone number. I left my phone at horne. Ulun, there was one there and he had hair, I remember him, got hair by now, he was one fucked up pig as far as I'm concerned. I don't care what anyone says.

MP

All right. What was wrong with him?

120

He used to laugh. He used to laugh at our downfalls. We were only children, you know, we're all human beings in the end, he had no rights to laugh at me, 6 you know, till kicked him in the ankle.

MP

What happened about that.

120

Oh, she was frog marched again and then 1 intervened, she got away with it and J blinkin well got put in the Detention Room.

MP

Detention room the cell you used to call it.

120

It is a cell. It's a proper cell darlin, you know when you 're in there you fee l alone.

MP

Yeah.

120

You know you feel lost and feel everyone' s against you.

4165

24

4166

Tape Reference No: MPf3

Ml'

I want to be honest with you 120 , the number of people I've spoken to have all mentioned the cell and have been put in there for varying reasons.

120

Bastards. J mean to say it's not as though we, I mean we never committed a crime, all right, we nicked Jaffa Cakes and things like that but that's harmJess innit? You're not going to put someone in a Detention Room for nicking a Jaffa Cake, are you? Ooh!

MP

Anything else?

120

r wanna know how

MP

, yeah, well we'll see if we can find out how these people are, once we've found 'em, because we've got lots and Jots of people to sec.

120

I didn't know this was goin on for two years.

MP

What was going on two years?

120

This case.

MP

This case?

120

1 mean to say, why the f. .. ., oh God, I don't understand it, right. That's supposed to be a youth hostel, right, yeah, fair play, yeah, good luck to the kids. But why, I mean to say, no, they should have left it as it is and got in contact with us lot. I wbuld have went, well, I go back over to Jersey to see 6 my family because I don't want to end up in hospital again thanks to you lot. 1 would have walked around there with you.

MP

Right. When are you going over?

120

As soon as 1 get my which is this week. Got to find out how much of the ....... The fare goes down dun it about this time of year?

MP

What fare? Plane..or ....

120

Plane. I go by plane even though 1 don't like heights. with me. I will send her a birthday card, I _promise:: you.

.MP

Anything else 120 that happened to you whilst in there, darling?

120

Yes, a few things. Get smacked about

MP

Yeah, you told me about being hit, about being put in the Detention Room, all the other staff.

120

Tell, when you meet up with 120 which is my maiden name.

is getting on.

will be coming

, leJI here from 120

25

4167

Tape Reference No: MP/J

MP

How do you spell your surname?

120

Oh God, fuckin hell. Surname is

MP

No that's an

120

My maiden name is ... that's why they call me

MP

120

.... No.

120 .

t0P

Hang on.

120

That's my first name. How much did yeah, am not allowed to talk to you.

MP

Let me just check with Sian, see if there's anything we' ve not covered, all right?

120

Can 1 have a fag then?

MP

Not yet, just a minute, just a minute.

120

Okay. Never seen you so quiet my love. Are you feeling all right? Fair play to (indistinct) innit. (Indistinct). Can I have a fag now.

MP

You know the Detention Cell Block you mentioned. What colour was it, can you remember?

120

Oh, it's looking up someone's nose, that's what I said to the psychiatrist that 1 went to the interview with. Oh, and I forgot to telJ her that they put two chairs in there and my mother, gormy mother-with Dr Fogerty, the psychiatrist~ and he gave me a cigarette. Now, I'm talking about when I was a kid, I'm not talking about when I'm now.

M,P

Mm.

120

Tums around and says to me. "How does it feel being in here?" So I looked at him, looked around the room and I looked at Mama again. You know like the gloss, that gloss paint and it was white and the ceiling was white obviously and it was painted green, right I said "how would you like to be up somcone's fuckin nose?" My mother burst our laughing.

MP

So it was green.

120

It was green, yeah, like gloss, the paint was like gloss.

MP

Shiny? Like these doors. The white on the doors.

give you me this morning? Oh

26

4168

Tape Reference No: MP/J

120

That's it.

MP

Okay.

120

And I looked around and I looked at my mother and l said "how would you like to be up someone's fuckin nose?". My mother burst out laughing.

MP

And the other thing is, are you sure about the name

120

MB

Yep. Where was he from?

120

He was English.

MP

E"oglish?

120

But he had a .... What I'm tryin to say to you darlin his name was say 'a', right, but that was his middle ....

MP

could have been his surname, his middle name rather than a surname.

120

Ugh. I know that for a fact. If be walked in the door now I'd punch him in the head.

MP

Okay.

120

Am a good girl now. His middle name was somethin else.

MP

So he was

120

No, ugh!!

MP

I've confused you, l'm sorry.

120

His first name was say F,

MP

Right.

120

His first name wasn't

MP

His fi rst name was something else, then

120

His middle name, ljke my name is as .

MP

Right.

120

But his name they used to call ltim

Something

if you understand.

120

. I could always use my name

27

Tape Reference No: MP/3

MP

Okay

120

But his firslmune , [uck knows.

MP

Okay. Right and just to clarify you have been physically assaulted as in beaten, thumped, broken nose, kicked about the legs and hips, sexually abused, raped by and him only, and ....

120

What did they caJI it? They didn't call it paedophile then did they?

MP

AlJ sorts of names.

120

Child abuse.

MP

Child abuse.

120

Recently they just call them paedophiles and that's what he is, owing to a woman called .

MP

And then being put in the cell, etc., beaten around the head.

120

6 I' ll never forgiven her for that, never. I was put in the cell, you know what I did? Do you know the urns of milk, am lookin at her when she come out and said ''I'm hungry", you know J looked at her and said " What do you mean you're hungry?" but I did go to the Detention Room but I was out 6 the back tal kin to she was crying. That made me upset, anyway she got out and f thought they were feedin her but the bastards weren't. Anyway, I went into the kitchen, pissed up as per usual, that's fb/ the way. I pulled up the urn, opened you know like the scoop we got in there, we nicked some bread and made like a sandwich for my sister and Tnicked some crisps. was too drunk, was workjng that day and she takes no notice of us kids and the next minute she was scoffing herself. You got (indistinct) in there, you got like a hot plate thing there, and am looking at her, she was nearly choking and had to bang her on the back, banging her on the bloody back and she brought that up again then I was escorted down to fuckin Detention Rooms.

4169

Oh dear. 120

For nickin milk.

MP

Okay.

120

And she wasn't in there for two days. She was in there three days.

MP

Three days, yeah.

120

There is not one day that me and 6 were very, how can 1 put it, we used to fight like cat and dog when we were kids, but if anyone intervened, U1at was a different kettle offish. We'd beat them, ha, ha!

28

4170

Tape Reference No: MP/3

NIP

Have you understood everything we'vt: said today. Yeah.

120

Yeah.

MP

Thank you very much for talking to me.

120

That's all right.

MP

I hope you've got some relief out of being able to sit down and talk it through. I hope it's not brought back too many bad memories.

120

Yeah, I' 11 have to take it out on

MP

You've been very helpful in painting the picture of what the place was like and that's beneficial.

120

You know one thing that I was looking at just now while you were talking. I know my eyesight is getting worse.

MP

Yours and mine both.

120

Let's have a look at tills again. That's the front entrance. That's the Detention Rooms there. Bastards.

MP

Let's put a cross on it where it is.

120

And cunts.

MP

Mm.

120

Yeah, but we at the back of it my dear, I'll put another little cross.

MP

Go on then.

120

Ugh? There was another Detention Room and the kids used to come . .. because we all used to stick up for each other, 1 know things were rough and we used to hah bah where's the pool gone from there? So you had Detention Rooms there and r was in the Detention Room, no offence to you two, right, ah, ah, , God bless him, he's dead, actually. I was lookin out the window, was a year older than me, and am crying my eyes out, 1 wanted my ummy and the next minute, was on the top of the pole_,... it was the Queen's Jubilee, wannit?

NP

Oh, right.

120

1987, and the tears welled up in my bloody eyes didn't it. He wouldn't get down. The Police, the Fire Brigade, you name it were up there baby. You have a look at them fields , you got a lot of digging up and I wish you all the best mate.

now.

29

Tape Reference No: MP/3

MP

Okay. Thanks so much. Am going to end it there 120 because the tape is coming to an end. It's 2 hours and we've ugh ..... it's now 1'2.35 and f'U conclude it there.

120

Yeah, what's your name.

MP

Mickl>ick.

120

MickPick

MP

That's my surname, surname is Pick. When we were having chi ldren, when we were thinking about having children at home, we ended up having two girls but one of the boys' names we were thinking about, not seriously but we were thinking about we were going to call him Nicholas Mkhael Richard so it would be Nick, Mick, Dick Pick.

120

Takin the piss, innit eh.

MP

Go and have your fag and talk to Dawn while I sort the tapes and things out. Thanks ever so much, I've enjoyed your company.

120

I'm a bit of a nutter but not that mad .

l'v1P

You've got to go outside to smoke.

417 1

[Interview E nd ed]

30

Tape Reference No: MP/3

4172

31

41~ 3

Signatures

Case Ref:

Exhibit No.

MP.3l

No. of pages

20

\_\ I

-

- ""'-

M. Pick

Tape Reference No: MPJ.Z

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH

120 ; ON SATURDAY 16TH"FEBRUA"'RY 2008
MP

==

Civilian Officer Michael Pick

DP

=

Dawn Pearce

120

=

120

[Tape 2 co mmences] 120

136 was so deep, like if we were sitting in there 136 would say nuthin, but if we were

on our own she would, she said urn, what did she tell me, we were on the, we were on the run, I know we were running like hell. 136 , as you go l:'P the stairs, right listen to me, as you go up the stai rs there's a bathroom there, right 136 was having a bath but there was no lock on it so that she, I've never seen 136 run so fast, she was, ah she was naked, I said to 136 "what the fuck are you doin" 136 I call her but she come in she goes "he's after me, he's after me" but she was bleedin down from the vagina, do you understand, and I turned around and I said, 136 what's going on" she was only a 136 is, she still is baby, you know how , you know and seeing I said "oh, we'll do a bunk tonight". So as we ran away, me and 136 , I looked up and I said to her I wonder what happened, he come in and be done it to me, he only forced her that's why she was bleeden. bastard. He raped her, she was only, tw ...

MP In the bathroom 120

In the bathroom, and I' 11 show you the ba, when I can, I know the Haut de Ia Garenne better than anyone, Lmeant to say that you got a girl sittin on the windowsill, a bit bigger than that a little, high up and she was just singing that song for, Drummer Boy, she had a beautiful voice

MP What was her name? 120

>I don't know her second name though, um she would ahvays have her nose in the book, quite intelligent li ttle girl you know, fhat's the one I was telling you about. The next minute she thought the staff were coming in, she only jumped out the bloody window and we were all looking down, it splattered, just gone, dead

MP Oh right

32

~T~·~ ~ R·~~~n~n~ct~N~o:~ M~ Pn~----------------------------------------~P~a~g~e~2______ 4174 120

l mean it wasn't funny

MP She just jumped out of the window 120

She just, she was that frightened, she just jumped out, she was very young, placid sort of girl you know what I mean but this st. ...

MP Did the police come and, anybody come 120

Oh, no the police weren't involved, the police wasn't involved when hanged himself and it's funny how a person can bang themselves when their hands are tied on the back. You know that place I was telling you

MP

That's the one in the boiler house

120

Ah he, he, he, he's in the, this is another one this is

MP Oh go on then 120

was lovely, oh he was, I know he wore glasses and that and he was, This, and he wore , he had hair, quite I'd.say about 15 years of age and he was in the 'B' in the back room (indistinct) Haut de Ia Garenne, you see you got 'B' wing

MP

Yeah

120 Then you go up the stairs don't you, yeah, and then you got another sta irs up and his room was there, then you go in there and you got ' A' wing, right but he was hanging

MP Did you see him? 120

See him, I never ran, [ never shit myself so much in all my life, I ran like, oh God Almighty did l run

MP

What was he hanging from?

120

It looked like a, I don' t know, I just looked at him he, he, he only bad his socks on, he was naked, myself and Julie looked, we looked at each other, so let's just get the fuek out of here and it was horrible, well God Almighty I must have been coming on to 13

MP Right 120

And 136 12., I just looked and that he was IS as I know that as he wanted to go to and university, he was always on about that, he was always playing was and he used to smoke in his room because the that but he, he was lovely, staff didn't, couldn't see us, you know when you're naughty little kids like and the next minute urn he was just, I can't understand it, the way he were, he was just, hands tied up behind his back if you know what 1 mean and his socks on, I was just lookin at him and I said 'this is not real' and she goes 'yes it bloody well is' and 136 dragged me, I could, we just ran down tlle other stairs, ran out the back door actually, well it wasn't back door actually, it wasn't a back door it was the, I'd run down the stairs, there's a toilet, the girl, the boys toilet there and the gi rls toilets there, so we jumped through the

33

~T~ap~c~ll~d~er~en~ce~N~o:~M~P/~l----------------------------------------~P~a~g~e~3______ 4175 men's', the boys toilets and we done a runner over the fields around to my mum's and tQia my mum about it

rv

Did the police come to that one? No, you shook your head did you?

120

I don't know darling

MP Okay 120

All I know is my mother made urn a complaint about it and I went down to with my Aunty , which was my mother's aunty, does that make sense and this 377 is the one who committed suicide over this, and I' Unever forgive the police over this, because I know they are all bloody involved in it. I stayed down her place for about a week and I thought ah sod it l might as well go back and face the music because they kept hassling my mother, them from the Haut de Ia Garen.ne and I know they wanted us little brats back as they called us, but I still say [don't care what anyone says the police must of known something about it and we say that if you got a child whose running away from the children's home constantly, you gonna think aren't you, but they didn't think, not one of them bloody bastards have

MP

What else can you tell me about the place?

120

It was a shit hole

MP

What about yourself, I know you mentioned being raped in that room

120

I don't like getting pulled by the hair Who used to do that to you 120 ?

120

she weren't much older than me though and she was a member of staff, 1 thought she was a right fucking old cow but there was a couple I loved and [ wonder and I hope to God there still alive, and

MP

Why did you like them?

120

They were so kind

MP

Where were they from?

120

MP

, I think it was I'm not a hundred percent sure but they )1ad a dog called used to fo llow me oh and it was company What sort of dog was it

120

be was beautiful he were

MP Right, how long were they there for? 120

Ah, I can, I dun.no know

MP

Who else, who else do you remember, I see that's brought back good memories, you've got tears in your eyes, yeah who else was there?

34

~T~ ~~~ Rc~~~ rc~ n c~c~ No~:~~~~P~n----------------------------------------~P~a~g~ e ~4_____ 4176 120

They were, they were the most kindest people I ever mel

tvfP Good I'm glad to hear somebody was kind to you 120

They drugged me up when I was a kid, not

and

, they were rock solid

MP They as in who? 120

Them bastards and don't mention that

MP

Who?

120

Charles SMJTH

rMP

Right

120

Evil and fucking b, I hope she's, I think dead

fucked up pig, he is

6

said she was dead, I hope she is fucking

MP Tell me about him then 120

I Ie was in charge of childcare

Childcare at the home

.

120 All of it, all of the chi ..

MP

Outside the home

120

All of it ri ght, (whistling)

MP Charles..SMfTH 120

Charlie SMfTH

MP Charlie SMITH 120

bastard, f hope he's dead, oh know 1 don't, I hope he suffers cause if he's dead he's not going to feel anything is he

MP

What, why don't you like him then

120

He knew dam well what was going on

MP And, and 120

He's got high, let me get the name of it, you got Wellington Park, right take Wellington Park and I' ll get the name of it, High,'"Highlands College, Highlands College, right it used to be a Monks place but they made it into like how can I put it, um I Iigh1ands College that's right but it was a urn, they made it into childcarc, they moved from ah Regents Street, to childcare now I'm talking, I'm going back a good few years now but

35

_T~ ap_e_ Re_~_ rc_·nc_ c_N_o:~~-IP_n __________________________________________~P_a~g~e~S

______ 4177

they moved o ut to there, there was Barbara CHAPEL who nicked my fucking dog, bitch, anyway that gave me, little , anyway MP

Whose

?

120

Urn she was um Haut de Ia Garenne, again she was lovely, but I suppose she's up in the heavens now, God bless her um, Barbara CHAPEL and there was a woman, then you got what's his name, ah C)1adie SMITH

MP

And he was in charge of all childcare

120

Yeah, at the time, then you got BYGRAYES,":Barbara BYGRA YES

MP

Right

120

1 forget her name, I know something BYGRAYES , then you got HUNT, don't ask me her first name

MP Right 120

I remember her, I can picture her face, she had grey hair. Some of them weren't too bad but the rest of them were, when I was little I ran away from the Haut de Ia Garenne and they anested me again. They took me back to Highlands ColJege so I was sitting on the steps. Barbara, I said Barbara, I said Barb, Barbara CHAPEL, she sat down next to me and I must have been about well 11 if that and I looked at her because your mum's got a problem like I was and I looked at her, I said my mum's and she looked at me sort of really as though God where did you get that from even thought they doped me up all the time you know, it was a liquid like that they used to give me and if I didn't take it they used to put it down my mouth ah have that you fucker HOMPSON ha ha.

MP What colour liquid 120 ? 120

Pardon

MP

What colour liquid?

120

White, it was that it looked like water, it tasted horrible

MP Do you know what it was? 120

Ask Dr FOGERTY know doubt that bastard's dead

MP

Why were they giving you that?

120

Cause you know when a kid is so, what you call it, hy, hy, what's the word, hy, hyperactive

MP Hyperactive 120

Yeah, I was like that all the time because you know what I mean I didn ' t want them to beat me, but they did beat me in the end because I can't read and write tlu·o ugh them

36

_ T~ np_c_ R_ e~_rc_n_cc_ N_o:__ ~~ -'_ 2 ________________________________________~P~a~g~ e~ 6~

____ 4178

properly, you know what [ mean eh, so they, so they would take the piss out of me, they've got the better of me obviously

MP Why didn' t you like the Ductor, Dr FOGER fY dtd you say 120

He was a psychiatrist, I didn't want, to need see a psychiatrist, there was nothing wrong with my head, I didn't want to go there

MP

Ho w often did you have to see him then?

120

Every week, then a gynaecologist which I can't have children now thanks to M r bloody

MP

Why, why did you have to see the gynaecologist?

120

Because l had a heavy, heavy, heavy monthly and it wasn't blood, blood it was like coated with this, it was like clots of blood coming out and I thought, at first I thought I was pregnant after what he did to me

MP

In that room?

120

Yeah, oh no that's not the first time and it wasn't the fucking last

l'vlP

Well , I was go ing, I was going to ask you that a bit later on but why you mention it

120

He was a pervert but that. ..

MP

Ho w many times do you think it happened?

120

About three or four times

l'v1P What around the same age? 120

Yeah l was coming on and then, I must have been, ah who did I tell, oh yeah 174 Barbara told, well I told my mother, her hands were tied but my mother was just my mum you know, my mother in it, she was she couldn't help like you know

MP

Is your mum still alive?

120

My mother died when l was 18

MP

Okay, I'm sorry

120

It's alright, not o ne day that goes by when I was at home that I don' t think of her tho ught, only a man she was beautiful yeah [went to the funeral , I watched her die actually

MP

That must have been hard

120

There is nothing you could do when it was

of the , when you were I rang up the ambulance and they sam there was nothing they C
37

_T~ap~e~R~ e~~rc~n~cc~N~o:~~•~m~----------------------------------------~P~a~gce~7~____ 4179

MP.. ,.

But you told 174

120

MP

Yeah

120

Yeah, my brother when I was J 2, he come up, that's the first time I met 174 , I thought he was a copper actually, myself and 136 looked at each other.

MP

Ts he older than you

120

Yeah, years than me, 174 is but we got to know each other over the week, he got some funny ah, what did he say, the words to me, cause he was very deep, because what's the matter with you, you're walking funny, 1 shouldn't laugh and then I sat down and I burst out crying and I told 174 1 never seen a bloke go so doolally in my li fe, 1 thought he was going to kill him, you know, that's when it stopped when I was about 12, I was coming on to l3

MP

What stopped?

120

The rape

MP

Right

120

Well it's not rape, I don't know what it was, I mean I was only a kid, you know you're petrified, you know you can't say anything, then I think what does sex mean to you, he looked at me you see my brother's taller than me li ke you know, he said what you mean about sex, cause we're all Catholics like you and they don't believe in sex before marriage, you know what I mean, they're ah, 174 was raging you know he bought me an ice cream, we were at Gorey v illage and you got the Secret Gardens there, and he bought me a cup of tea and a bun and a ice cream, kind of him weren't it

MP Jersey cream, go on 120

And lhen he goes when we walk back, be goes, I don't know, he goes, 'I'll kill the bastard' and that's aU he said, now we' re walking back, you got Gorey village, then you got steps which leads up to (indistinct), 1 told you which leads, you got different ways of running away from that place, I know that place like the back of my hand believe me, you could blindfold me and l know it, you go up the stairs, up the steps, up that way and 174 looked at me and he goes, ' I wi ll, I will personally kill the fucking bastard', so we were walking up hand in hand and my brother an awful habit of holding my hand because I was a lot smaller than him like you know, walking over, yes the police did get involved

MP

Righl, and what

120

174

got arrested for GBH

MP On

38

_T~np~c_R_cr_cre_n~ce~N~o;~ ~L~ra~----------------------------------------~P~a~g~e~8~---- 418 0 120

Mr

he bit him

MP Did you see him hit him 120

Cause [didn't, I ran a bloody mile away, 174 mental when he starts, when, I look I said 174 leave it, he wouldn't leave it, can you blame him, really

NlP So he gets anested 120

174 174 ot arrested, be punched this lunatic in the head and [was standing there, and they were

M'? So what happened to 120

When he went flying

MP

Yeah, no I mean in relation what he had done to you

120

Nothin

MP Nothin, nothing at all, 120

Nothin

~

But 174 gets anested

120

174 got arrested

MP Was it mentioned as to what happened to you 120

No

NIP

That never got mentioned at that time, but 174

120

knew

174 orother, he goes l will be back for you, that's all he said 174 knew, my did leave me said, but they barred him for coming up to see me then, but alone after

(MP

How much longer was

120

Phew, hang on a minute you got me confused there now mate, cause T know he didn't come near me, as 174 said not to walk down the conidor on my own urn

'MP

120

I'm not too sure, I think, he was married to a woman called truth I don't know how long he was there for

MP

It's alright, I'd rather you said, you say that than say something that um you're not sure about

120

No, I don't, I don't know

working there after tbat

um to tell you the

39

Page 9

Tnpe Heferen te No: MPn ,

Mi> So is there j ust in the horne? 120

4181

that you're talking about that has raped you whilst you were

He was just, no that the other staff was, how can you put it, ah there is something else I got to tell you, urn wasn't only a rapist, he was a fucking bully, I used to see him pulling boys hairs around and that you know, you know what I mean he was just an arsehole as far as I'm concerned and be, [don't know,

MP 120

MP 120

·

, yeah He was married to ah God what was her name, I can't remember his name, I think it was Christian or something like that, not hundred percent sure but anyway he was a you know what I mean and sh was

M.P Is there anything else about him, you were saying that he was a 120

He could be shitty sometimes you know what I mean, he never, he used to give you a back bander, I going to say that the band was Like a shovel in the face, he didn't like how can I put it, it was like that his hands

MP

His two hands, his hands were too big

120

Yeah, yeah and what did we do, 136 , ah 136 again, she was Like a little sister to me, you'lllove her when you meet her, we are trying to get contact with each other, 136 anyway he smacked , I looked at him, I though you fucking bastard, I got this brick and I threw it at him, hit on the forehead like that, oh the biggest mistake 136 is yeah I ever done, (singing) well he shouldn't hit her, she was

MP Why was it a mistake then 120 120

Because he beat the fuck out of me, I couldn't walk for a bloody week

MP Oh right 120

He was a, I mean to say a j urn ping up and down on me, he was urn, you know like a trampoline like you know, I was only sticking up for my mate, she was like a little sister to me

MP Did he injure you then? 120

Yeah, on the hips and that, that's why I couldn' t walk, I thought you little bastard

MP What, what, how did he injure you, you say your hips 120

He hit me and he started kicking me about like I was a football

MP Right

40

_T~np_e_R_rf_er_en_rr_N_o_:~~-u·_n___________________________________________P~a~gLe_l~O______

120

4182

I'll never forget that, and he was a and I mean he was than and that's saying something, in it, no l didn't think it was funny at all. I only stuck up for 6 my mate and ~ he had no -sisters you ~ee., she classed me and as sisters an9 we cjp~sed her as our little sister,she was--lovely 136 was

MP Who e lse, who e lse .. 120

There was , and I wonder what she was on about on the phone with 6 , I am very close to 6 by the way 6 , and um we called her ' ', we got nicknames for each other like you know. I'm walking down the corridor with 136 , I said what, and I thought I was imagining things, head down and she had hair, thing with hair you know, l said 136 , what the fuck's going on here ' and , it was, you could tell if its tears, crocodile tears or whether its coming from the heart you know, you get brought up with that and it was literally coming from the heart. I looked at her and I said, ' what's the matter, he's done it, he's done it'. Do you know what that girl ended up having a baby, a little boy [slapping noise]

MP By 120

Ask if he is still alive and is manied to but urn the bath, the bathroom had, the bathroom alright, as you go in, you got the front door there and you go, you go in, you got the field, you got the playing field ain't you, alright you got all that there right and you go up the steps, a couple of steps, you go in there, there was like 2, if I remember there was 2 baths together, what they used to do to us when we were kids, it was j ust always on the weekend, I reckon they were out their heads or there was something on the weekends, especially a Friday. Well we used to run away on a Thursday to get away from them, maybe a Wednesday because it was better, you were in the clear then aint ya. We, I said to 6 I said good night 6 like, I gave a kiss goodnight like you know, we were close like you know, she was in one room and I was in the other, next minute carted down stairs screaming and shouting, well of course there going to screw you, you figured they're going to bloody 6 kill you, I had cold and I was freezing cold, it was a winters night, I think it was October sometime, had me in there and I was screaming and they were ducking me in and they were laughing, and the rest of the staff, and I thought oh I could 6 come unstuck and I said to what and they put in the bath with me

MP

That's

120

6

6 , they starved 6 for 3 days in the detention room and that, its like a 6 prison cell, I told you about that, that is wrong. I thought me and are very close when we were children and we still are close so l thought hang on a minute where, where the hell is she, breakfast time, I thought where is she, come tea time no turn up on 6 , I thought I'd do a trot I thought she had done a bunk, a bunk means ..

MP

Run off, yeah

120

Yeah, I goes, I said 136 I said [got to make it back to my mum 's tonight, she says f come with you, we crossed fields, God knows what else, the mental institution we had to cross, I'm surprised I didn't even end up there. See we

MP

What's that called?

41

_T~~p_e_nt_k_ rc_nc_e_N_ o:_~_w _~_~_________________________________________P_a~g~e_l_ l

120

______ 4183

6 ended up there 18 mon[hs thanks to them bastards, ah god almighty, anyway I get down to my rna' s, I said wherc's 6 , mum goes I thought she was wi th you, [ sa id no she's no t, ah they come along and we went back again. They didn' t lock us up, because we weren't out overnight if you know what I mean and 6 then I said where' s they said in the detention room thanks to that fucking bitch, so what happened was they let 6 out after J days, I said what's the matter with you, she was crying ah them eyes, hair right and I look at her and I said to her urn, you okay, she says I'm starving, I said what do you mean you're starving, they didn't feed me for 3 days, ah 2 days, I said 6 I said you were locked in there for 3 bloody days. What did 120 go and do, you got the kitchen there then you got like, urn well you got like, what you call like hot plates, well they were quite big on that side which leading into the what you call it room. J said you sit down in there and I'll sort you out but St Saviours .

MP Why didn't they feed her 120

Because their bastards, that was her punislunent

NIP

What had she done?

120

I think she tried to commit suicide that time, she jumped in Gorey Pier if! remember rightly so they decided to put her into the detention rooms okay

ME So they brought her back and put her in the detention room 120

Yeah, they're very nice people,

MP 120

, tell me about She's a

then, where is she from or.

bitch

MP Alright 120

She.

MP Is she staff? 120

She was

MP

Right, so she's

120

At the time, cause um (singing)

MP And 120

at the time then left and don't ask me when, what time that bastard left,

comes and takes his place

202 Yeah but we was hoping it would be 202 urn her name was, she was, she was brought up with us when we were kids but she went over and done child care, lovely 202 was. There was another woman over there, um I don't care what people what they are, they can do what-they bloody like as far as 'm concerned but she was a , but she left and I remember she had hair..

MP Can you remember her name?

42

Tapr Rcferrnce No:

120

No,

6

Page 12

~ ll'l2

4184

does

MP Okay 120

It's a pity I can't, I, I haven't got my bloody phone, I can't ring of credit though, she should be ringing me

MP Do you speak to 120

6

6

, it's a waste

?

6 a lot, um, ah she was a, I don't know she must have seen a hell of a lot because I remember her, ah I could picture her, she walked down the corridor and she was cryin, now this is the one I'm talkin about, she was, an, and I mean cryin and she said to Morag, Morag was a bloody, we used to call her horse face .. (laughing) ..

I speak to

MP Is Moraga different person to .. 120

Ah, ah

MP Why? 120 , Um, sh, she was

6 says everyone of them was as well but I mean to say but they weren't, a lot of them were English, urn, Jersey and some of them were alright you know what I mean, that, you know you get good and bad in everyone in life you know..

~

120

Morag, horse, horse mouth, urn (laughing) I shouldn't laugh really but she did have a horse mouth. Morag was strict but okay, you know what I mean, she was alright, 202 was alright..

MP But 120

you didn't get on with ..

I couldn't stand her for what she did to

6 , I'll never forgive her, I hope she, she had a sister called , as you're walking down that coiTidor like I told you, right, I put these away, you got the corridor there and that's the way they go, ah you go there ..

MB Opposite the entrance, main entrance .. 120

No, no, here, this is the back then on top of that it's B, that's where we were, but you got gates ..

MP Yeah 120

There the wall was stopped there, there was her flat where

MP

Right

120

Do you understand what I'm saying?

were

43

_T2 np~e~Rr_~~re~n~ce~N~o:_•~ ~ W_I~2----------------------------------------~P~a~g~e~1~3______ MP

Yes, Yeah

120

, they w-ere li~:ch
MP

You don't, you don't know who by?

120 "

Um,

4185

MP Or you're not telling me?. 120

No, I don't know

¥P

That's okay

120

Honest to God I don't know, if I knew, I mean to say she had different people going into the, that flat there, she was a lovely, oh alright she was I think she was a bit than urn but s he was alright but it was was, I thought that was Hitler's wife

JvfP Right and she's the one that put your 120 in detention.. 120

Detention rooms and that was over 6 wanting to come, I don't know what 6 , balfthe time they separated us if you understand what I'm saying, happened to they separated us and I said as you watch, actually I nearly got drowned my bloody self.

lvfP Nearly got.. 120

Drowned myself, 1 had to dive in the bloody Pier after her ..

MP After 120

6

Mm, she wanted to commit suicide, we were just, you know ..

MP

Yeah ..

120

We were both working there well I was 15,

6

was 17, no

MP What did they used to do there, what did 120

,

MP 120

6 And urn, we're coming out of there one night me and and obviously we had given mother some money, you know what I mean see the mum alright, I was 15 and 6 6 there was, I said 'I'll eaten you up later that's what I called my sister, for two weeks I wondered where she says 'okay' the next minute I didn't see 6

44

_T~mp_e_Re_~_re~n~ce~N~o:~ M~Pn~--------------------------------------~P~a~g~c~1~4_____ 4186 the hell she was. I hunted the bloody island out for her. No one told me, she was only in the ward thank you very much

MP What's that ward for? 120

Urn,

MP Right, okay 120

6 And Twent in with the , you know didn't even recognise me, didn't recognise me at all. I said to her it broke my bloody hea1t. ' 6 ' I said 'what's the bloody matter with you' she just looked at me like I'm, she was just like urn, I looked at my mum and said '1 think we'd better go'. Then they put her in St Saviours, that's what cracked me up, then I ended up in La Moye which is the prison and that's the best time ofmy life

tv(p

So you said, so you said, let me take you back to the eltildreo's home then, you mentioned the grounds, what was out in the grounds?

120

The grounds, they got a lot of diggin up to do ain't they

MP

Why?

120

You know the dolmens

MP The what? 120

The dolmons, its called the dolmons, you got Haut de Ia Garenne there, you go across the field just around the comer between the bushes, you got a couple hanging up..

MP Couple of what? 120

Bodies from Haul de Ia Garenne, I wonder why ..

MP Who were they? 120

I mean, some of them I didn't know their names but I know there was one called

MP

Right

120

And on, ah ..

MP

What were they hanging from?

120

A tree

MP

What, both at the same time?

120

Two of them, yeah but I don't know the other one, I don't know whether he was from Haut de Ia Garenne or whether he was from Le Preference, but with the Preference, you sec you got StMartin's, do you know what I mean darlin, you got St Martin's then you got Gorey but you can go down the route and we all used to team up together, the kids, if you know what I mean and urn he was from Le Preference

45

TApr Rererence No: MP/2

NJP

That's

120

No,

PagelS

4187

? was from the ..

MP

was from Garenne

120

was from where f was but the other lad was from Preference ..

MP

What happened to them then?

120

They just ha, I don't know, j ust hanged theirselves, I don't know, I don't know what was goin on..

MP

Why, why do you say 'you got some digging up to do?'

120

Well more than likely you got a lot of bodies there, there ain't there ..

lvfP Do you know for certain there's bodies there? 120

I wouldn't be surprised

MP

Was it something you'd seen 120 , it is quite important, is it something you've seen?

120

This, this is all goin to come back on me, you know that, you know i [I tell you everythink, it's going to come back on me because these people are devils and their demons ..

MP

We need as much information from you as you can give us

120

The field next door, the field next door

MP

Sorry?

120

The field next door

MP

Which side are we looking at?

120

Well you're drivin up ain't you, well, well it depends which way you're comin ain't you

tv1P

I've brought with me a map, plan an aerial plan of the children's home

120

Oh God it's not the children's home, that's the devil's home ..

MP Well it's not now, cause it's been done up, it's a 120

Well f wouldn't bloody be surprised, ha, ha

MP

So you're telling me you come through the main entrance

120

Hang on a minute, let me have a look at this ..

46

~T~ap~e~Re~~~rc~nc~c~N~o:_~~1~Pn~----------------------------------------P_a~g~e_1_6_____ 4188 ~1P

The main entrance is down at the bottom where you are now look, that's the road at the bottom ..

120

Yes

MP I would think it's probably altered quite a bit from when er 120

Why have they done that?, what, what they doin to it, they fucking it up ain't they

ryrp

It's a, er urn, making a youth hostel and something else as well

120

Ha, ha, poor bastards, that's where he sprained his ankle

MP Where? 120

Running from there

MP Let me see, [can't see 120

That's where he sprained his ankle, that's brilliant ha, ha

MP That's the left hand side of the road near these buildings on the left there, yeah, is this the field that you're talking about, the field in the grounds 120

That's the field ain't it

MP That's the fie ld on the right that you're talking about? 120

Yeah, but there's the main entrance, right you go in there, you got the garage there ain't you..

MP

That's on the right yeah, near them three white blocks yeah ..

120

But there was the detention rooms, there was, oh poor

MP Tell me about 120

, um there

?

She was

~

What happened to'

120

That was my favourite staff

MP

Yes, yeah, yeah, and is that where she was, she Jived then?

120

Yeah just off on the top there, that's where

MP

And on the bottom right, just above the entrance yeah ..

120

Yeah, see there ..

MP

That's the left-band corner, yeah

?

was

47

_T~ap~c_nc~~-.-c_nc_e~N_o:~ M_r,_2________________________________________~P~a~g~e~1~7______

120

Yeah

t-- IP

On the front

120

Along there

4189

MP Halfway down 120

Yeah, the top was where that girl used to sing rum, ta, tun tun

MP Oh right, the one that jumped out of the window 120

Jumped out the window but r don't know, we just looked out and all we seen was this speck body

MP

Do you think she died?

120

Well obviously she must of died, because all we seen was a speck body

MP Could you, no, what was down that side, down the left-hand side 120

Down there, give me that I' II show you, down ere you come out of it, you got that ain't you

MP You go halfway down, yeah 120

Yeah, the, the donn was up there, then you got like a little boiler room, the side there we used to ..

MP

Was that the boiler room you were talking about?

120

No, no, no the boiler room is on that side

MR. Alright 120

No inside there, down that way, there

MP Yeah.. 120

Then you got the little steps coming out there, then you got the laundry there

MP Yeah.. 120

No sotTy

MP

The laundry room front left, yeah

120

No, no hang on urn you got the bathroom then you got the ..

MP

Which bathroom, the bathroom you were talking about?

120

Yeah, then you got upstairs ..

48

~T~np~c~R~eh~rc~n~cc~N~o:~M~rn~ ~ ----------------------------------------~P_a~gLe_1~8______ 4190 MP

With urn, who was the one you say was raped in the bathroom?

120

I think it was , yeah

MP 120

.

But there, that's where we, that's the last time I seen childhood sweethear;t

that's my

.MP Right before be left and went home and hung himself, yeah 120

Yes

MP Yeah, yeah 120

I hate them bustards for it, but there, just in there was a little boiler room, but there in there, there was like a little hut, sott of thing, that's where we used to go in.

MP What, for a smoke? 120

Yeah.

MP

Yeah.

120

Hah!

MP

It's not, it's not the boiler room on the back then?

120

MP

Tell me about them then.

120

There was abou

J'v.[P

Are these, are these kids that were in there or staff?

120

No, no, no, no, they were children and uhm.

MP

What age would they be then?

120

Yotmger than me. Uhm, it was penicillin, as per usual.

MP

Looking out of what window?

120

The window- you've got the swimming pool there ain't you, round (indistinct) where's the swimming pool from here?

tv!P

[think it's under that cover isn't it? Isn't it under there. Is that right?

120

Yeah, that's it.

? How are they doing?

120

, t ere was

- I was looking out the window, I was on

49

______ 4191

•~•p_e_Re_~_re_nr_c_~_ o:~~~~y,_ z _________________________________________P _a~gLe_1~ 9

t-.lP

rsthat the ri ght position for it?

120

Yeah, hang o n. Right, I'm looking out the window.

·

MP

Can ' t see what yo u' re doing. Yeah.

120

And there's a Little swimming pool for the little 'uns to swim in.

~lP

Yeah.

120

Now, was no bigger than a grasshopper's kneecap, wasn't even about '3, I wouldn't even say 2.

MP

What age did they go in there then?

120

Ubm, any age

MP

Okay.

120

So, uhm, the staff standing around, like around that area, right, you know.

MP

Yeah, yeah.

120

Yeah, yeah. See, li ke that.

MP

Yeah. Around the edge of the pool ye~h .

120

Yeah, and yo u got a little boy. And he is face down in the pool and they' re laughing at this. And I'm banging on the window and in the end I screamed.

MP

So where were you then. Were you in the building then?

120

I was in the bui lding. I screamed to

MP

Right.

120

It was

MP

r suppose.

;' god bless him he 's dead. He, he saved his life. . What's

120

who was standing say like that.

's name?

.

MP

.....

120

Don't know the name.

MP

You don't know. Sorry. I keep doing that to you. Was that not covered in then when you were there?

120

No.

MP

That was just an open swimming pool.

50

______ 4192

_ T~Rt~Je_ R_er_rr_ cn_cc~N_o_ : _~_ I P_t!___________________________________________P _a~g~e_2_0

120

That was an open swimming pool. But the little ' un- you got a little swimming pool there.

{Tape Ends!

51

41 93

Signatures

Case Ref:

'

Exhibit No.

MP.30

No. of pages

20

..

.~ M.Pick

Tape Reference No : MP/1/

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH

120

ON SA'LURD~Y 16TH FEBRUARY [email protected] 10:34 AM

MP

=

Civilian Officer Michael Pi&

n'P

==

Dawp Pearce

120

==

120

I just need to run through some basic details with you just to explain where we are, who we are, what we're doing and how the procedure works okay. We are in an interview room, a video interview room in , I am not sure of the particular area, do you know what area this is? 120

No

JvlP

Youdon't

120

No

tvfP

Do you live here?

120

Yeah, well I don't, llive but, 1

MP You don't live in the area. ft'.s now 0:34 on Saturday l6 hFebruary 2008 I m MichaeuPick, mo::;t people call me Mick because of the surname.Mick~ick which is not.hard to forget. [ am a retired Nottinghamshire Police Officer refiring 2003 urn my background is the wvestigation of murders, manslaughters,~. rapes mainly child abuse, paedophiles, dangerous sex offenders and I retired as I say in 2003. I now work for an agency who employ me back to different police forces as and where they need particula I suppose expertise but urn where they need help in various investigatiens. So at the minute I am working for the States _? f Jersey Police doing this investigation. [f [ could ask you to introduct: yoursel [ 120 with your fuU name and pate of birth please.

w

52

4194 120

120

My nee, matden name was

r was born.

120

. l was,

~962

NlP WJ1at day of the month? 120

62

MP Thank you. Now also v.rith you, you got a good friend and ah you feel that you need some support can I ask you to introduce yourself Dawn please, just your name wi II do.

DP Yeah my name is Dawn PEARCE MP And Dawn you're a Police Community Support Officer DP

Yes I am

120

And she a nutter as well

•MP She's a nutter as well but she's here as your support okay and she 'II just be here

if you feel that you need her. There is absolutely nothing to worry about whilst you're in here, you can tell me absolutely anything that you want to tell me. Unfortunately over the years there's nothing that will shock me. Okay so 120

Laughing

MP So you tell me whatever. Obviously whilst we are in here we need to deal with the truth and do you know the difference between truth and lies? 120

Yes I do

MP Just explain that for me 120 . What, bow would you explain it? 120

Well put it this way I know the Haut de la Garcnne like the back of my hand, I know how many so called children killed thereselves and I can't stand the bastards who raped us.

lviP Right okay. I will, I'll come back to that just a few seconds, I just need a few little more things to tell you about and then I'll come to that, okay I'm not stopping you from talking but I want to just explain the room, okay. This room is a special video room, there is a camera behind me.

DC Yeah, I can see it MP The top bit moves, the bottom bit is a static picture and that's a picture in a picture which shows there is only us three in the room alright, but the top one will move and if you move the top camera wiLl move, okay so if you was to lean down like you did for your cup, that camera may well just move down and back up again.

53

4195

DC

Well I'm very sorry but its only a cup of coffee there's no vodka in it

MP I'm only saying I am just explaining it. .. 120

Just smell it [or once

MP I[ you hear a noise in the background alright 120

I still (indistinct) ....

MP On the side of you there is a microphone that will pick up every word that you say and it's recording everything that is said in this room alright? 120

It's alright

MP

Yeah

120

Okay I understand

tv1P What we need to talk about in here is the truth. If there is anything that you don't understand ask me because I'm from a different part of the country than you are and I might say something. 120 So is she, she is

MP So I might say somelhing that you don't understand likewise I might not understand something you say or, or a particular words or names of places in Jersey that I don't know, alright, but if you don't understand just ask me. Please don't say something just to please me either if, if, if.. 120

No I wouldn't, I wouldn't please you

MP But if you don't know an answer, if you don't know an answer just say.. 120

What am I like

MP 1 don't know an answer 120

Would I please you, I please no man

rvrP Okay, do you understand everything I've have said 120

Yeah, no

tvfP Why? 120

Why?

MP

What don't you understand?

54

4196

120

Laughter

MP What don't you understand. Tell me a little bit about yourself before we get going just to, just a little pen picture like I said what I did .. 120

I lost my boyfriend, my proper boyfriend urn on the

Ia, not last

year the year before can you remember that?

MP Oh dear how did that happen 120 ? 120

I was living in, I was living in a flat urn down by

has always looked after me ain't he, um he was the same age as me but, urn he got um, his because he called a couple of people' Junkie Bastard' no, yeah . his name was. I 'Junkie Bastards' and he had his let out the door and I said 'Pigs' to him because he wouldn't make it to the police station. I went to hospital, he collapsed in the police station, see him in hospital but on which was a Friday had died. He was trying to get in because we didn't have the keys and these people who did it only got 15 months, I couldn't believe it.

rum

MP What for

?

120 For

but the way he died it's watching it but [ seen a lot of deaths but that's the one your close to, it's a different kettle of fish , do you understand what I'm saying?

1v1P I can see it's upsetting you again and I don't want to upset you. 120

And then I tried wouldn't answer

door I don 't know how many times and the bastard

rvtP (knocking sound) Let me take you back to what you were going to say earlier on, you were going to tell me something about Jersey, what was you going to say to me? 120

I'm going to bomb the Island up actually, have you got urn any explosives so I can do it?

.tv1P I'm afraid not, no, the Island hurt you then? 120

Why do you think I am over here fof? [ didn"'t want to come to worst place [ wanted to come but I had to come over here

~1P

Right, tell me why? Start from the beginning you were going to talk about Haut de Ia Garenne.

120

Haut de Ia Garenne

it's the

MP Yeah

55

4197

120

That's not Haut de Ia Garenne that wac; the Devil's Home darlin

MP

And when did you go in there?

120

God 196 (laughing) I am giving my age away okay, um I was, I was only a stuff toddler, I can remember being in ' A' wing it's like being in bloody again ' N wing (indistinct). It was downstairs urn r was there, my older sisters, isn't my old, my older sister cause 6

MP Is 120

6

, when she was, when you were in there

Yeah but I also had um of the family.

was the oldest

MP Right 120

l)m and 174 . See the Haut de Ia Garenne before you got the Crecbe, you bad

the Creche down, down Rouge Bouillon, that's urn down Rouge Bouillon Y0\.1 ktww the Parade Gardens

MP Yeah near the police station 120

Yeah, I know it well, I should do, they should know me well as well, anyway Oaughing)

MP I'm getting used to the Island, 1 know somewhere 120

Urn, it was, urn before it was mixed, if you know what I mean, I talking about the 6\)'s now, or maybe earlier than that, it was the Boys Home, only boys

tvLP Only boys 120

Right, my brother right, ah 174 him hen I was 12

174 , my mother was married a couple of times was there and he told me a few things when 1 met

MP And is 174 still alive? 120

Touch wood he is, yeah I hope he is

MP Do you know where he is? 120

Jersey

MP He'-s on Jersey, that' s 174 120

MP Okay

56

4198

120

Yeah, and then you got

MP So he's in there first, he's in, in, in the Boys Home 120 Yeah

MP Yeah, okay carry on 120

Then they changed it because they ah the nursing home was like for nurses if you understand what I mean (sniffing) so they transferred us lot, the littlens or little toddlers something like that, up to the Haut de la Garenne

MP From the Creche on 120 From the Creche up to the Haut de Ia Garenne

MP Yeah 120 Right, I wasn't brought up, l was just quite happy there it's when you start

developing, that's the biggest mistake, they put me upstairs onto another dorm and the staff my dear friend they ha, ha, they swap but they weren't all like 6 say everyone's in her eyes, now if she says it's a padded cell, is it hell no. This bloke I was coming on, now I 1 told you as a child, some children don't before, whatever, I'm walking down a corridor and I must have been about II Yl, coming on to 12 because you know, and cause of the force of the hand grabbed hold of me, he like that, he just like screwed me so I thought somebody help me, well one of the other kids would, that's when I lost my virginity and l was 11 V2

MP Whose 120

He was a Jim THOMPSON was urn in charge of the home, the only thing what Jim did was pick up a bloody glass and drink, but..

MP But 120

?

. As you go down a corridor, right you got the corridor there, no you come down from there down the steps, down from there and down that way now 1 was going up, actually to tell you the truth I was going out for a fag

tvfP Did you smoke at II Yz then? 120

Yeah I was smoking all the time. I wouldn't give up for them, why should I, I hated them. Anyv,ay it's the way he grabbed hold of me, [wouldn't mind so much my fag broke

tvlP Alright

57

4199

120

It's a laugh isn't, in it but he was bastard but they reckoned it wasn't his, they reckoned it was his, urn middle name cause mine's, 120 my, my middle name's 120 isn't it and no urn so they reckon it was a different name but he wouldn't tell me it

MP Right 120

But he

in the process and that's the first time I had ah well, sex

MP Can you tell me how that happened 120 ? 120

Well, what do you mean tell her, I just told you

l'vlP What, where in the home and how is what I am looking ... 120

I am walking down the corridor, as you go in the front door, yup, you go up the corridor, if I could draw a picture I would, go up this corridor and trot down there, happy thinking oh yeah free as a bird but I wasn't free as a bloody bird,

we got there did we go in that way and it leads to the office, you got the office on that side yeah, you got the office that side then you got where your mother and father was allowed to come and see you on that side but, yeah the phone box there where you could phone up you know like friends or whatever, but there was like a spare room and .... tvfP Would it help, would it help you to draw a picture? 120

I can·t

l'vfP You can I've got a pen and paper 120

Go on then

MP Cause you're loosing me, I don't know about Dawn but you've lost me. 120

I'll try

MP Go on 120

Coming down the corridor from 'B' ..

~

Is tbat the main, the main, is that the main entrance that you just. ..

120

No, no, no

MP Right 120

Coming down there, go round there ..

MV Right that's ' B' wing that you've done on the left hand side of the paper

58

4200

120

Yeah, yeah, you go down that way

MP You callin it ' 8 1 Wing but did, did the Wings have separate names? 120

They changed it to Scots names so 1 don't really want to mention them

MP Okay, all right so. 120

So you went down there, down there, right we got this corridor, now how big is this corridor. Along this corridor, see where 1put this here, its half-way through the corridor well I think, you got the main entrance just down there that's where it happened and you got a phone box

MP Right 120

Does that make sense?

MP Yeah, yeah there's a phone box between the entrance and the room where it happened. 120

It, its in between

MP Yeah 120

Do you know there's a phone box there ..

YIP Yeah, yeah 120

There, there's a phone box there, and that's the room where it happened ..

-"MP Oh right.. 120

Does that make sense?

MP Yeah., what, what was that room? 120

God knows, it was just, urn it was just, sometimes there was a educating room there and what have you

MP How big was it? 120 God you're taking me back some time, I wouldn't say its as big as this, a bit

smaller than this, bit smaller ... lYfP And what was in there? 120

A couple of chairs what have you, urn know what I mean ..

tvfP Right okay, so how did you end up in there, how did you ...

59

4201

120

When I was walking down but you see when I, I walkin from 'A' down there ddd, ddd, dddo, well I wasn't walkin I was skipping actually then dov.n there, then I was, then he's standing in the doorway which leads to the fro, front entrance ..

MP Right 120

Like the office, he grabbed hold of me the bastard and I said "What have l done now" and be just pushed me in, right.

rvlP And then what happened? 120

Well he ripped my blue jeans off and what have you and he done, he done the business and I don't have to, I really don't have to go into detail do I? He was a dirty pervert, You ...

MP What do you mean by doing the business? 120

I Ie raped me and that's when [ lost my, what you call it, virginity in it, I'll never forgive him for that.

t\1P Right I don't want to labour the point but he has intercourse with you in that room, he raped you and this is without your consent? 120

Oh I an eleven year old, an eleven

1P L1 !lz years of age 120

Oh yeah well I am just going to lell you yes, ob rape me I'm but when I come on they moved me from one block to another and I come on my period when r was 12 and I thought I was bleeding to death and it was no joke, 6 went bloody mental, 6 . Her name was

1v1P Whose name was 120

?~

It's staff, so called fucking staff

l'v1P Another member of staff, yeah 120

I said I'm bleeding. She grabbed me by my hair because my hair was ,I was a , r told you before r was a , she grabbed me by my hair and she ah I was so embarrassed, so that small, the boys were all looking at me with thjs sheet and everythjng, blood rwmin down my legs, no I don't think that was funny, give me Ted BAISNEL any fucking day.

NfJ> What, do you know her surname 120

No but I remember her

MP Can you describe her for me?

60

4202

120

She's a witch. She had brownish hair, shoulder length, dark eyed, she used to go out with a (indistinct) fucking bloke with a beard and he was ugly.

MP Was his staff. or um. 120

No he weren't staff, he was just a prick

MP Was she from Jersey or ... 120

Yeah ...

MP She was a Jersey girl 120

And then poor 6 , you know I said, I said, I, I, you see me and 6 were always been close like, I know we have our ups and downs in life but we all do but when they put her in, I think 6 got confused that time. 1 ran away with 136 a friend of mine.

l'vfP What age would you be when that happened then. 120

What...

l'vlP When you run away 120

Laughing, I was never more than seven, [was always on the run.

MP What before, before this happened then. 120

Yeah, I was in cruelty all my life there, and I mean, even the, no offence to you, I know you're an ex-copper and that and you're a copper but sometimes f don't class you as a copper, I class you as a nut case who hang around with urn, you know SC\ en year ol
MP Tell me about 136 then, tell me about 136 , you friend 120

My best mate, she had brothers, one di~d, 147 did God bless him, I hope he's in peace, I don't know how he died, that is 171, 147 , bang on 43 let me get it right, 147, 171, 136 and is the

MP Right are they all still alive? 120

No

1\tP Yeah, 120

147 147

136 yeah she's still going

MP Do you know where she is?

61

4203

120 No, I would like to but ..

t-..fP

What about the two boys?

120

Ah, I think they're still in Jersey, but I don't know where they are, I 'vc lost contact with a lot of them

MP You've not had contact with them 120

No

MP Okay what did you used to do with 136 then? 120

We were always o n the trot

MP The trot, what's that mean? 120

What..

~fP

Run away, run away from the Home

120

Yeah, but, but it always, in it furu1y though 1 would say and 136 was a year younger than me, urn she's a very deep person 136 was, you know very, she wouldn't say nothin but when you're on your own with her, when you're running she'd stop talking when your j ogging across fields and end up in cow fuck bloody shit and apart from that great. Urn 136 was a very deep person, she never used to speak much, especially in front of oforr, authority

MP Right 120 Do you know wbat 1 mean but when you got her on her own, nn, nn, nnnn, do

you know what I mean

MP What to you, she would talk .. 120

She would talk to me like, 136 did, but say like if you were in here now 136 would sit there and Look at you and say nothin. Do you know the best days of my life to be honest with you was when I was in La Moye Prison, they treated me like a princess, there you go from one thing to another, even though l was heartbroken and do you know what they arrested me for, drunk and disorderly and put me in prison for a wee~

MP Oh right.. 120

But I loved it

lYIP Why? 120

Because they treated me lovely, the staff, were brilliant there

62

4204

MP What age would you be then? 120 15

MP And you had a week, did you 120

Yeah, I kept going back, 1 couldn't, l couldn't, oh J missed it, I started crying when they arr, let me go, I had to go back again, they let, oh

MP Let me take you back to the home. So you say you were running away from the age of seven, what age do you think you went to, to children's home then 120

I think, it's cos my mother was a and L you got alcoholics and you got habitual drunkards, do you understand what I'm say" thank you. So my mother had of us, my father personally speaking was a bastard to my mother, so she met this guy called urn then I had 248, 247 which touch wood they're doing well for \hemselves

MP Their surname being 120

120

MP All right okay 120

And urn they wcrcn 't in Haut de Ia Garrene they were ah fostered out in St Clement's which is down the coast road, urn they was allowed to come up and see me if I was a good girl on the Saturday now in, my mother didn't have it my: mum were, she easy, she was only a (indistinct) woman, she was was like a , she was but urn, no we complained to the mother

MP You!J'e mother, about what? 120

Well the beatings

MP Explain that to me? 120

Well you don't hit the child across the face

MP Who did that? 120

it wasn't it was bloody, what's his name , I hope he's dead as well_, anyway

hc•was ma1Tied to

~fP 120

Oh, I can't spe, oh, urn I don't, he was tall, but obviously they were all tall to a chi1d in't they, urn he was married to

63

4205

MP Did she work there as well? 120

I don't know what she did, well she was with him but that, that as you go up the stairs, you go up the lc, ah I'm talk in about the hill now, you come up the hill and you, they used to up the stairs and the dormitories were that side and they used to live there but what 120 did and 136 , I went in there one day but it leads to Jim THOMPSON' S room, do you understand what I mean, its, its

MP He's the.Jboss, he's the boss 120

He was the boss, you got like, how can I explain it, say, say that we walked in here, then they got their flat sort of thing there right, then you go down, further down the corridor, well whatever you want to call it and then their flat, you, you could open the door and you where in Jim 'THOMPSON'S room, flat, does that make sense

MP

So you could access to their flats then, to the staff flats?

120

No, no, I said

MP She let you in 120

No, he did

MP He did 120

Yeah, and that, there was a, that, the night before they sent me to when they let me out the detention rooms which was like proper cells, and I mean proper cells, not joking if I could do

,

MP Explain them for me then, what's a, where were they in the Home 120

As you drivin in the main, main, um the right han, ah no, as you were driving down, it depends you get to Haut de la Garcnne two ways, as you go in well there's only one way ai'nt there to the ri, left, right band side ai'nt there, and you co, they got windows like this, I'll try and draw a picture for you again, you got windows square

MP Right 120

Right, that's me looking out crying

tv1P Why were you in there? 120

For smoking a cigarette or runnin away okay

Ml? Okay, how long would you be in there? 120

About a week, [ was in there about three weeks before they sent me to appr-oved sch9ol in called

64

4206

MP 120

•and even they couldn't put up with me, they sent me back, I wonder why

MP What to the Home? 120

Yes

MP Yes, what was in that cell then? 120

Just, ah say that's a window alright, that's me

MP Where is that window? 120

That is down by the garage, you got the garage there a'int you

N1P Right 120

Where the po, where the posh cars

MP Right. right is that, it that window in a wall or in a door is what I was getting at 120

Oh know it's in a wall

1\tlP Okay, here 120

Yeah, but

rvrP

And you can see out from that window to the outside

120

Yeah and they got vents in it, you got like little vents up top

MP Right 120

And the best laugh I had, is when the lads used to pass cigarettes tltrough (clapping) the other kids did it and you know that urn what you call it, you got a box of urn matches and you take the flint off, right, throw in for us, that we used to, when they used to let you out for the toilet, very kind of them eh, yeah very decent of them, and we used to hide it and we used to put it behind the toilet, 136 136 .was always with me, ', ah bless her that's right

MP So there wasn't a toilet in there then? 120

No, sometimes we had to go in a potty

MP Oh, right 120

Treated like shit

65

4207

MP What about a sink and things, was there a sink and Lhings in there? 120 No

MP What was there in there then? 120 J

Just a bed

MP What's on the bed? 120

Like a mattress J suppose, it was like a prison cell actually, no, no, you know when you get, how can I explain it, it's like urn, say you know when you get arrested, right and obviously they are going to bung you in the cells, that's what it was like but there was no toilet, there was no toilet at all, it was like a potty

MP Okay what about the door, what was the door 120

Steel, hang on let me think, you know what to be honest with you I can't remember but I know, I know for a fact that I couldn't get out of there anyway

1v1P Like l said to you at the beginning if you can't remember then say that you can't 120

No I can't. I can't remember, straight up, but I know that it was bullet proof, the windows

~1P

So you would be put in there for things that you'd done wrong within the Horne, you said smoking running away, would there be other reasons why you would be put in the ceU?

120 No, oh yeah, yeah there was another reason, I did throw a cup at urn Jim Co

MP Sorry 120 Jim Co, Jim Co

MP Jim 120 No hang on I got to get this out now, now hang on a minute, as you go in you

got like, say this is the office, right 1 still laugh about this, I didn't laugh at the time, L was raging, I said open, I said to him "open that bloody door and I want you bastard"' I said "don't you ever listen to us kids, because he was a chronic alcoholic, you know at the time I didn't understand but Jim was the sort of person, I used to cal l him ' Womble' he was lovely he was, he was beautiful MP Do you know his sumame? 120

Jim THOMPSON

MP THOMPSON, he's the, that's the boss again that you talked about

66

4208

120

Yeah

MP The one you talked about 120

Yeah, so I threw this cup at him, right, I missed him, I was ragging, even more ragging because I missed him, but he got up and started chasing us, remember you're a wamble, started chasing us down across the fields and that, we jumped off the wall no bigger than this, say a bit higher than this, next minute we were running down the hill, a steep hill like that going down to Gorey, running like hell, t\>.'0 kids in front of me like said "Oh God" and that's when I heard this roar, ha, ba, ha so I runnin back up again, oh my God, tried to pick up this 136 carried on running down, bloody whale, you couldn't pick him up, she left me and r bad to run up, I couldn't pick, I couldn't leave him, could you, [laughing] the nexl day he had his leg up like that, still drinking his whiskey

l'vlP Oh right 120

He sprained his ankle

MP Oh right 120

But there was another woman, I' m going to say that, 1 am going to-Say there was a chronic alcoholic, he was Scotch and,

MP 120

He was married to , as you go up in the corridor you got, I think but as you go up the stairs, this is on the other side, left-hand it's , we used to side of the building there was a girl called ' call her the'

~1P

Right

120

I seen her one day and I said to her "what you do'n crying" she was on her hands and knees and she was literally, and it wasn't, it was coming from the heart, you could a lways tell, you co, you could sense it, looking at her, Tsaid "what are you cryin for" say I know by Looking at her, picked her up "he's done it again", ''he's done it again", do you know rhat girl ended up pregnant

MP Who'd done what 120 Ask

, I' m sure it was his kid, I swear to God it was

~fP

Did she tell you exactly whal he'd done

120

She didn'l go right into details about it but you could see the hurt in the poor girl's eyes because I was in Le Preference with her, Le Preference was like a vegetarian home and urn its just

67

4209

MP She ended up pregnant, and you think its 120

Well she said, met, just weird because she, he, he Was marr1ed to , I'ts so sad, I thought yeah, I thou, I thought that urn um committed barrie carrie, you know there's a lot of the children in them llomes, there'd, that I mean to say its is so many, so many of them, I meant to say recently 377 called committed suicide over this shit, he was married and senled down and aU, all of a sudden he's dead , I didn't have my disability money I would, I would of flew over there, respect, which is my did you know that

MP Why did you, why did you do that 120 120

j3ecause of the press, what the police will do with him, bought it all up

MP Was he in, was he in the home 120

He was in the home,

was in the home, yeah

MP What, whilst you're there or after you 120 No, no, no we were there together. he, he's

n, he's not my he's my e was my mother's, if you know what t mean, he was and urn he committed suicide , no I couldn't give a fuck, I couldn't afford to go over there, the fucking bastards

MP Who else do you know that has committed suicide then 120

I know a few of them, almighty

for one, and the one in the boiler fC50n1, ugh, God

MP Tell me about that one 120

136 Myself and , went for a fag again and it was pissing down with rain outside so we thought we would go in the boiler room., we soon came out the fucking boiler room, 1 tell you that now for nuttin

MP Could you get in the boiler room then was it unlocked? 120

Unlocked yeah you see that corridor that I was telling you about, )'.OU got · B'

1P All right 120

Right, so the boiler room's there

tv1P Ob right 120

Right, goes in there, 136 go_es, well its 136 r call her, lets go [or a ciggie, I went what, she goes well look at the feet dangling, I said I don't know its only a dummy and I looked again, I said that it's not a dummy it's bloody , for

68

42 11

?vu> Not boys one end and girls the other end or 120

Ah, no, no, but what I'm trying to say they separated us at night and there was always the girls urn

MP In the daytime you would mix, boys and girls together and 120

Yup, yup, my childhood sweetheart was

MP 120

MP Yeah, how old was he 120 120

A couple of years younger than me, we just had a smoke together, cuddle each other, he's dead, bastards

MP What happened to him? 120

in because, what did he give me, he give me a cigarette, we were sit down on the steps talking, I said have a good weekend, I wasn't allowed home, I got caught smoking actually, that's the last I seen of , he hanged himself, there were a lot of fucking perverts around ai'nt there

1v1P Why ·h_y did he hang _himself 120

fie didn't want to COlne back

MP Where did he han-g himself 120

l wasn't told that until about two weeks later

MP Tell me about the perverts, you mentioned perverts 120

Well they're all perverts, at the time we didn't call them perverts, what did my mother used to call them, she called them some name as well, because at the time the, the word 'pacdophile' wasn't out, do you understand what I mean. but half of them I wouldn't even shoot them, it would be a waste of lead

t\Y[p

Them being who

120

Well there was one called

l'v[p

And

120

he's , I mean (tapping) she was a littlt!, actually she was a

the bastard

you spoke about man, he was married to urn bjtch

69

4212

MP Was she staff as well then, right, why was he a pervert 120 Urn, I don't know something that 136 said to me once, 136 was very deep like if we were sitting in there, 136 wouldn't say nuthin, but if we were on our own she would, she said urn, what did she tell me, I know we were on the run, we were runnin like hell, 136 , as you go up the stairs, right listen to me, you go up the stairs there's a bathroom there right, 136 was having a bath but there was no lock on it, so that, she, I never seen 136 run so fast, she was naked, I said to 136 "what the fuck are you doin" 136 I call her and she come in and she said he's after me, he's after me, but she was bleedin down from the vagina, do you understand, and 1 turned around and I said to her, " 136 what's going on, she was only a baby" you know how tine 136 is, she still is.. , you know I'd seen it, oh we' ll do a bunk tonight, so as we ran away, me and 136 , I looked up and I said to her r wonder what happened, he come in and he done it to me, he only forced her that's why she was bleedin, , he raped her she was only tw .. . tvlP [n the ba hroom

120 In the bathroom, and f' II show you the ba, when I
{End ofTape 1}

70

emmott snell solicitors Leveson Cottages, 32 Grove Place, Bedford MK40 3JJ Tel: 01234 360140/01234 862234 Fax: 01234 357866 DX- 716015 Bedford 5 www.emmottsnell.co.uk

21 September 2012 Mourant Ozannes Private And Confidential Historic Abuse Red ress Scheme 22 Grenville St reet St Helier, Jersey Channel Islands JE4 8PX

Our Ref: TE/FC/ YourRef Dea r Sirs Our client :

120

We enclose by way of further evidence in support of our client's application to the Historic Abuse Red ress Board our client 's witness statement dated 18 September 2012. Kindly acknowledge receipt .

Your~y

t:) Emmott Snell Solicitors Email: [email protected]

Comm unity Legit Servic
D!reno· TA Emm::~:: L.3 "'ens Emmon Sne Sobclt~ Ltc Reg&e~ Cornea~, No OT~!l-!6 Regu ated b; 5o -c :OfS Pegu ar.on Au : I'\Or ty t.o. 560)5:

71

BETWEEN:

120

Applica nt and THE STATES OF JERSEY

WITNESS STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF APPUCATION TO HISTORIC ABUSE COMPENSATION SCHEME

120

I

formerly

, of

will say as follows:-

1.

I was born on

1962. I am 50 years old.

2.

I am single. I am unemployed and in receipt of state support.

3.

I make this statement in support of my app lication to the historic abuse claims compensation scheme operated by the States of Jersey.

4.

I was born in Jersey Hospital. My mother was called . I have

sisters,

than me.

are living in Jersey. I also

than me .

My mother was

and my father was is the oldest, and

6

is

when we were young.

When I was very young, about 6 months old I believe, I was placed

in care beca use of the Local Authority's concern about my mot her's inability to look after me and

5.

6

.

My mother was extremely violent. On an occasion my sister and I had to jump out of the window t o escape from her. She tried to smash a broken bottle into my face. The States of

72

6

Jersey were aware of this which is why

247, 248

left

and I were put into care. However they

, with our mother. When I was about 14 I reported this

to a child care worker, Barbara Chappel l, who arranged for them to be placed in foster care in St Clements.

6.

According to my records in October 1962 I was placed in La Creche Children's Home. When I was two years old my father left my mother. At some point I was placed into Haut de Ia Garenne. I was in and out of Haut de Ia Garenne. One time

6

and I were placed with a

couple in Five Oaks when Haut de Ia Garenne was full . They were fine with us but as soon as there was space at Haut de Ia Garenne we were sent there.

7.

When I first went to the Haut de Ia Garenne there was a couple called

and

who were not violent. They never laid a finger on anyone.

8.

I was then moved to a

School) in

in around

1968, during term time. Holidays were spent back at Haut de Ia Garenne. I stayed at the for 5 years until I was 13.

6

joined me there in about 1970. I have no idea why we

were sent here. I hated it there and kept running away. While I was there I used to be drugged by

. I do not think the other children were drugged but I was more hyper than the

other children. One time I was so drugged up that I would have fallen off my chair but caught me. One time

6

thought I was dying. She tried to get me to te ll

was so upset by the way I was drugged that she that I didn't want it any more.

said I was a very naughty girl and that the medication was God's way of punishing me.

9.

If I ever argued with

she would kick me in the back of the knee to make me fall

down, then hold my nose and force the medication, a clear liquid, into my mouth. Another way they gave it to me was in my morning milk. I think that these drugs stopped me from learning

2 73

anything during my childhood. This is why I cannot read or write very well. I have never had the skills to find any work in adult life because of this.

10. One Friday

6

hit me over the head with a metal bowl while I was queuing for dinner.

hit

that day.

120, 6

. We ended up in

11. I was thrown out of the

ran away with another girl called where we stayed with

and sent to an approved school in

mum.

for a while when I was

nearly 14. I was not convicted of anything wrong. I was told it was because they said I was 'uncontrollable'. Other kids at the school had been sent there by the courts but I was under no court order.

12. For some reason social services moved me back to Jersey, back to Haut de Ia Garenne, where I remained until! was 15 or 16 years old. 13. During my time at Haut de Ia Garenne I was subjected to physical, emotional and sexual abuse by the staff who ran the home. The regime was one of constant verbal and mental abuse. It was a regular occurrence for members of staff to put me down and call me 'stupid' and other demeaning names.

14. I refer to the video statement I gave to the States of Jersey Police on 16th February 2008, which

sets out in some detail what happened to me at Haut de Ia Garenne. This has already been submitted with my application on 6th July 2012. I would like to add to this detail further information that I did not necessarily cover well in my police interview.

15. There was a member of staff called

. He gave me the creeps. I would think of him

as a ' dirty old man'. On a couple of occasions he would be grab hold of my breast, or touch me

74

inappropriately. He was married to ' (I think her name was

'. It was common knowledge that he ') as he was hanging around her a lot and then she

went away, returning with a child. I kicked him in the groin once when he grabbed my breast. left and I never knew why. After him came

16.

of Haut de Ia Garenne.

was the

He was married and had

children, and his family lived at Haut de Ia Garenne. He would often 'touch me up', whenever he had the opportunity.

17. When I was 13 years old I was put on the contraceptive pill. Shortly after when I think I was 13 or 14 years old (although I am really not too sure), in winter time, I was going to see the manager Jim Thompson, walking along the corridor to his office. I bumped into

who

took me into an empty classroom. He said something like 'you hang around with a lot of boys', to which I said 'yes' as it was a mixed school. He then said words to the effect of 'you're going to enjoy this'. He then put his hand over my mouth, and said 'not a word to anyone'. He smelt of alcohol. He pushed me to the floor and then got on top of me with one hand over my chests. He said he would really hurt me if I screamed. He then raped me (full penetration), and it was so painful. He got up off me, and told me to wash and then left, telling me not to tell anyone.

18. I lost my virginity to

that day. I lived in constant fear of him after that. After the

rape by I withdrew into myself. I did not speak for severa l months afterwards other than to one member of staff,

19. When I was 14, pain.

.

kicked me hard in my genital area. I remember feeling immense

I believe he caused me significant injury to the point where I believe the rape and the

physica l injury he caused me has prevented me from having any children.

4

75

20. One of the punishments that the house staff liked to use on us was the use of cold baths. I particularly remember Morag Kidd and the hair. I had

aking me there. They used to drag me by

so they couldn't do this but they dragged me by the ears

instead. The staff often smelt of alcohol. They would throw me into a freezing cold baths in the winter. It was terrifying.

They would laugh as they were doing this, as though they were just

having fun.

21. I remember regularly being locked up in 'the detention room'. This was a secure cell. It was usually for running away (which I did often), nothing more naughty than that. On at least one occasion I was locked up for 6 weeks. I was only let out to go to the toilet.

22. When I was about 13 I remember being held down by staff and M orag Kidd punching me in the face. I had a black eye and a nose bleed from this. About this time I ran away with , she jumped down into the lane in the wrong place and broke her leg. After we were caught and then taken back to Haut de Ia Garenne they kept

there and did not send her

to hospital until the next day.

23. Being doped up on medication on a daily basis was all that I knew. There was a Dr Foggerty who would see me and prescribe the medication. I do not know why I had to take the tablets. I was in a constant state of drowsiness and could not concentrate. As well as being forced to take medication I was admitted on several occasions to a hospital

I think the

longest time I spent on the ward was 7 weeks. I do not recall why I was there for so long nor what my diagnosis was.

24. Whilst I was at Haut de fa Garenne two children jumped to their deaths from Gorey Castle. They were a lot older than me. I think there was a write up about this in the News of the World. This

76

news scared us that older boys had killed themselves because of being in the Haut de Ia Garenne. Another boy

told me he wouldn't see me anymore and he hanged

himself in his dad's shed. He was my first boyfriend, I was about 12 at the time. I thought he did it because of my being sent to the

school but I found out from his sister when l was in

my twenties that it was because of how he was treated at the Haut de Ia Garenne.

25. Other children killed themselves.

was one of them. Another boy jumped from a

multi-storey car park while he was out for the day on a Saturday.

26. I was often locked up at Haut de Ia Garenne as I ran away so much. When I was 15 and still in the care of children's services I was discharged from Haut de Ia Garenne and ended up sleeping rough on the streets in St Helier. about

in

1980 under my maiden name.

27. There was a lot of violence and sexual exploitation at this time. I still find it too painful to talk about most of this. I was sleeping in a car park when a man called

offered to put me and

my friend 136 up. He then raped me. There was a big row and the police came. They arrested

136 and me but not the man who had raped me.

28. In 1978, when I was 16 I left Haut de Ia Garenne. I spent the next three years in and out of various detention facilities including approved schools and borstals.

I was diagnosed with

behaviour management problems.

29. In 1981, when I was 19 I was sentenced to 18 months' imprisonment at Holloway Prison for the offence of theft and criminal damage.

6 77

c

30. Since the age of around 9 I have drunk alcohol. However I began to get heavily into drinking when 1 was about 15.

I have been diagnosed with alcohol dependency syndrome. Feeling

anxious usually triggers my drinking.

My drinking has resulted in me receiving criminal

sentences for drunk and disorderly behavior in Jersey. My drinking has been so out of control at some points in my life that it has led to seizures which were related to alcohol consumption. When I am drunk I also self harm by cutting myself as well as stubbing cigarettes out on my arms. 1 drink to block out memories of Haut de Ia Garenne. My memories of my childhood cause me deep anxiety and I often fall into "crisis" mode. I then drink until I am unconscious. I have overdosed on a number of occasions due to excessive alcohol consumption.

I have tried

detox programmes in the past but I often have relapses. I believe that my excessive drinking is linked to my childhood and the abuse I suffered at Haut de Ia Garenne.

31. My drinking has led to me being homeless and living on the streets on and off for many years. believe it is also significant factor in my having a criminal record.

32. As a result of my childhood memories, I suffer from depression, panic attacks, nightmares and flashbacks of Haut de Ia Garenne.

Since 1990 I have overdosed using drugs on at least 5

occasions. The last overdose I took was in 2010.

33 . My health has been severely affected as a result of my drinking and drug taking. I suffer from epilepsy and until very recently I had daily seizures.

34. The media coverage of Haut de Ia Garenne and making the statement to the police in February

2008 made me extremely distressed. After I did the police statement (by video), I took an overdose of my epileptic medication and was admitted to hospital.

35. Since leaving Haut de Ia Garenne I would describe my life as chaotic. I was never given a proper

7 78

education because I was too drugged to ever be able to concentrate fully. This has hindered any chances I have had had of getting qualifications or a job. I never had the opportunity to go onto further education and better myself.

36. Because of the abuse I suffered at Haut de Ia Garenne, I admit that people have taken advantage of my vulnerable nature. I have massive trust issues. I cannot hold down serious relationships. I feel stressed, nervous and anxious all the time. I have never been able to have children. I am supported by various statutory agencies and a voluntary organization called 'Missing Link' which is a mental health charity specialising in working with women who have a history of sleeping rough.

37. I feel that because I was placed in the care of the States of Jersey at a very young age I had no chance of ever leading a "normal" life. I should have been protected and cared for during my childhood, but instead was subjected to a horrifying regime of sexual, physical and emotional abuse. My life has been ruined. I make this statement in the hope that the States of Jersey will recognize that they failed to protect me and that as a result of their failings, I should be entitled to receive compensation from them.

79

I confirm the contents of this statement are true. Slgne

120 120

80

• '

t

120

HAME =-D~TE

C0/35

HISTORY

CASE

- l~

=----- ---------

OF BIPTH :_ _

M"'ternity Hospit>l , Jersey

_~~-~ PLACE OF .RIRTH._

HO~lE ADDPXSS : ~

·----~--­

~

R:!LIGION:___:_ _--===--- - - -- -

JU,.SOU FOR OhRE :..;____o_ + _h_,_r__i_n __ P r_ :~-_ · s_ ·_n___________ _ KRTICLB

SCHOOL

DaTE

SIJHOOLS :

ENPLOYER

:E:1PLOYHENT :

r TE

I MOTHEi'R

FATHER

? .... RE1l'LS :

i!'me

Date & Pl<:tc of Birth

\ddress if a ifferem; f child

Zmployer Jon tact Tu l lO .

SI3LilrGs :

DArE rll PIlZ~CE OF BIRTH

tL4HE

6, 247, 248

PLACE!1ENT

D~:rE

Admi t t ed to Haut de l a Garenne .

1. 11 . 7" 6.

l ,

1:

Transferred to

2 . 7. 7 3

- to . 9 . 7

-

Su~er

IJ . 12 . 73 • 6 . 1. 71 - home . 5 . 4 . 74

-

19 . 7. 7<1 -

h

26 . 10. 73 - 5 . 11 . 73 - home .

lid~ys - h~me .

15 . 2 . 7~ -

1 • d . 74

- Ea s ter h oliday .

a. 9 . 7J

- Summer h1 l idays .

J0 . 8. 7d

2!:! . 7. 7:3

Admitted t o Heut de

2 . 9. · :

24 . 2 . 74 - heme . 24 . ~ . 74

-

2. 6. 74 - h

~e .

1. 8 . 74 - 16 .8 . 74 - La Preference , Re- odmit ted to La Pre ferencc . I

\

."

It~

l~ G~renna .

..... 2

I

..

Children a

120, 6, 248

Mrs . was at ono ti~o m~~riod to a 147 children of the marriage of the Children ' s Departmeot for oorr.c yon~. Athr marrying l.fr.

.'-

l·:ro .

~~ .

and there were who have been in the oare

started drinking and when

6

waa were in Prieon because of a drunkon bru;:L In October 1960, was discharged 6 to the oare of the paronta and cbortly ~f~er t his the family left t he Island. They returned to Jersey early in 1961 and lived with a friend , Mre, of , until tho Housing Committee told them t o move out . Booause of 6 her parents' laok of accommodation was boarded out in a foster home, but later had to be admitted to the Crocho as the foster mother vas 111.

3 montho old she was placod in tho ::ost:n:ay Croohe , ao Mr . and Mrs.

In January 1962 Mr. uas boforo tho Court for attacking hio wife, vho was again pregnant . Subse ~uently ~r . wont to Winchester Priaon f or theft and vi olence, and when 120 wao born 62 abe joined her 6 in Weatawny Creche.

In October 1963 lolrs . ;:cnt to ?rison fo r 3 months for breach of the peace as s he had been drinkine hcuvily . On coming out of Prison s he wont to live vith of . Mr. ' co-habiteo had died 4 years ago ) . ::r:1 . appeared to settle down happily vith Mr. a nd they started visi tin[\ •,:cota;my Creche and takill8 an interost in and They l ater hnu to leave the and 6 120 moved to a ~hich wao vsr,y damp . There wa o no evidenoo that Kra . wns drinking hor.vily nr.ti )~r . seemed to be a s t eadying influence on her .

Mr. returned to ~ho I3l0nC fo~ o brief spell, but he va s already living with anothe r wom;:m ar.d t!-.o;; uiC. not ::-amnin here lo~ . At a Caoe Conference a t Woe tawny Creche on 31st :.:a:-c~ 1 ~05 , it was rooornmendod tha t and 120 6 should be allo\lod to BO to t!·,.:.:. r 1.10:::-..:,:..~ ~·or -,:ookonds and holidays with a view to 248248 an eventual return ho~a on 7th J~o 1965 . On . 65 a was born . Effortswere mado to rehouse the family and in October they aoved to . '

Slnce they hove been at thi n nddroos they have been visited !rom time to time,, and although conoern was folt for the family when they vera rehoused in thie particular block, which hoo tout.od a number of alcoholics , thero vas no evidence that Mrs . woe drin ~dn£:' w•til q,1lito recently .

I 1

have boon utt.:Jr.ding St . }.!ar :t' a Sohool, and the flat haa 120 and 6 always been reaaonnbly olean and co:.i!'or tabl e . The two 11 ttle girls aro •etUed in wel l at home , although they aro not easy children to handle and 120 oan be ver7 livelr.

Continued ••••• •••

I. I

II I

,I I

'I __j

12

I

I 2

I~

'•' 'I'

I. In December 1967 I found Mrs . in a neighbour' s fl a t ( ) and they had both been drinki ng . I later saw Mrs . in her own flat and warned her not to be ao stupid - she nnid she did not like to say no to Mra. when she knocked on tho doo~ asking her to go across to her flat. Foll~ng rumours that ?l.rs . 1iOS asain drinking I visited early in June and had a long tolk with lo~rs. , vho denied she was drinking again. I warned her of the oonsequoncoa if sho started to drink heavily and she assured me she vas not drinking . She aaid she dooa not now apeak to Mrs .

Mr.

is happily settlod in his vork at , and earns (13 basic fo~ a 5 day week. He still sends 25/- per week to . Hr. had no complaints to make and the children were nicely dressed and olonn .

22. 6. 68

••

I

I

i I t

I

I I.

I.

I

i.

i

I

The flat was untidy and I holpod ;.:r s . to make the beds and tid,y the sitting room . Thoro wao a good supply of food in the houso (ohioken for Sunday lunch, salad , fruit eto. ) ~4 . 6 . 68

Visited . It H.J S ;.:r. ' day off and he was sittin.g in the front room with the ctild::-0~ . Tno flat was olean and tidy and thoro vas a fire burning i n tho &roto . All tho children are still siok with a ohest infeotion, but they are givvn their med icine four hourly . The Kitchen was clc.:;n ~:-:a ::.1·.; . :::-~s bucy tidying the bedrooms . l~r • s aid that he in al1:."l:r::: ir. ._·;c ·.1 ovJ::~.-:.::; 11 ftor ho cor.~on homo from work at 7 p. m. but be slipped out to t::o f~ =>~ ... nop 0:1 Friday , leavill8 t ho key with Mrs. aa the ohildrun ~oro in b0d . Ho met Mrs . near tho flats and brought her home . Ee k:1ew c:io had been crinkin& , but said she does not drink heavily as a rule ar.d ho h.:.d no co::-.plaints to maka . I warned them that it was foolish to leave y ot.n& chil
'

I 1

1

1

I

I

Child Care otfioer.

CHILDREN'S OFFICE 24th J une 1968

L_ ___________________________

13

of

Children:

248 120, 6

8 . 8. 68

• 9 . 8 . 68

I

J

14

2

Both llr . and Mr s . l'lere v e r y cont rite and had obv i ously made some effort to clea n u p tl':e fla t b<:fore cy arriv al and were concerned to hear that the Constable took a n<: ri )UG view of the case . I left it that I would hav e a further v.'O rd with Cent enier Garde n a nd in the meantime t h ey shou ld try and oort out their financial troubles . I warned them that 1.! t h e childre n were allowed to return hone it would be t heir l as t chance and a.n:y further trouble would mean Court ac t ion. They b ot h were quite hap py for the children to remain a t naut u.e l a Garer..r.e temporarily . tocorrotJ I later spoke t o llrs , '/ er-.n, ::ouzir,c , 1·; r.o ·,·d.ll be seeing :::rs . re rent arrears . I expl3.ined t :.ut r . had b een off s i ck for 3 ,;eeka and apparently he c ould h ave hc.d i:::..n :r'\.cr.t I'l.:d,;c e d i f he had furni shed a medical Cert i ficate but it i s not possibl<: to b~ck-d & te this concessio n . I asked i t they would qualify fo r t. ~dl.lcc r'. rer.·.. w-.d :.::-s . Venn sai d she would go into this with la:.re . t omorr0w .

41t

I late r s poke t o .!-' athe r .;o:m Tau::. , l'l!io v is:.t s the f amily regularl:f and be Will advi se the St . Vincent de ?t.~ of t~e probl em at the next Committee and no doubt the y will be able t o tcl p ,

CHIIJ):tE N'S OFPI CE

19th

A~t

1968,

15

' OPY 20H

. AI com munications to be addressed to the CH I LD~EN ' S OfftCER.

Tel•phon•: CE NTRAL 30883 .

STATES

OF

EDUCATION

JERS E Y

COMMITTEE

CHILDREN 'S SECTION Ctuldren 't Officer

Mtu P. L. Thornton.

Yo ur Ref

CO LOMBER.IE CLOSE,

PLT/SMV,

Ou r Ref.

JERSEY.

24th October. 1960. Dear

• tiherry •

6

,

D/B

60 ,

This is Just to confirm that

collected

from ./estaway Greche 17th uctober, 1960 ,

0!1

the

6

do hope that wi ll manage to sett le s ome here , l

Yours sincer ely,

( : ;<::_.. ~~. J , Sherry • Esq. •

Children' a O!.'fic r.

Secretary , St , lielier Ass istance Board, To Hall, .JERSEY.

67

CopY to

.

6

D. ot B,

.60,

15. 1. 62 .

·~hilet at the Aeaiotance Board this coming, told me that had appeared betore the Court this morning and had been bound over b)' the l\aa1otrate on condition that he leaves the Island tor three years. The charge was one or attac~ing hie w1te . I then interviewed with . She told ua that she did not want to ao awq troa JeraeJ with her husband, anl that she ie now going to ll'Ye at , St. HelJA!I r . She has a broken which is in plaster, and is unable to wor k . ia giviDg her aaei etance . She says t hat she 1a d to aake a new 6 atart and to try to make a homo t or , and I told her that 1:f she was sincere about this I wae quite sure that her mothe r would l i ke to he l p . She said that abe 1a going to see her mother . 20.j.62 . Again at the Aea1atance Board this morni.ng told me that , who was there at tho tim , is pregnant and is expecting the bab7 1n I had not t 1JI8 to atay to see her then but made an appointment tor her to come to the ot:fice on Monday atternoon .

came to the ottice. She At!r told me that her husband had n ot lett the I sland aa instructed by the llagistrate last Monday, and on ThurBdaf he broke into (this i s t's home), and emptied both meters . The result ot thio is that ho is nO'if 1n Prison again on r emadd, and his oaae i s due to be heard b7 t.he Pollee Court on . It could be that he will be ecmt out ot the leland under Police custody on thia occasi on. I 6 dieouaaed w1 th how ohe would support and the coming child, and we tel t it would be as woll to apply tor a Maintenance Order . I discussed this with ho reco~~anded contacting the Bat tonier as 1a at pres8llt ill. Advoate Bailh oohe referred to Mr . Le Boutil lier, an Advooato at Lc Gallais & Luoe, Hill Street, but ,Abe th1nks i t wery unlikel¥ that anything can bo done about a llaintananoe Ordor before Thu raday o:f thJs week . He also thinks it unlikel¥ that can be :forcibly deported . /

G._~

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Telex : 41222 .

REPORT

Sir , (1 )

/ ~t 2 . 30 p . ~ . on ~un~uy , 18th ~usus t , 1968 , accompanie d by

P. c . h . 1:inchi:-.ton wo ;ando enquiries o.t conccrnin~ tho ~~erenbo ut s of : -

( 2)

Cn ou..· .:·;:. ·;:.:. ,.·.; '~: .•. flat ;tf;j ..lJOko t o who info;" .o..t u · -;; .. •... • ~:t· 1~..!Cl not oeen since 10 p . m. on :.;at.ur.l"y , t.l.e l'f~b Au::;u5t , l9b8 , and did not kno w tfhare she migi,t. l.:J.vo cone un,t t:u ;mo loft i n chsrcc of her children , 248 120 6 , and .

( 3)

I foui:tl -c:c.o c:.iJ..drc:-. t.o be dirt y and tho houso to be in a dirty 2.nl !'il th:r cc,nui tion . 1 lias of the opinion that t::., ~~~ c:1i.ldr0n ·..:.-· :-e ;-.?1. bcinz l ooked o.fto r proper ly and ~houl:.! be r~·.O'l<:! i f:-o J t:~e ho.;Je . I contacted i·: ro . By&"raves (;JJil"":.-:n:; Ci:i<;ur, .,:.o :u.:;.:le tho :lucoc:;al"'J arrangements for t.:h ::o <.!.-~J:::-.:.~ ~-=- be nd.:it.-.:ed to .laut de ln G ronno , Chil
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( 4)

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(5)

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and , in nn but with a nocativo result .

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Child rens Cfficc .

Submitted to:Corporal

Sergeont _ _ __ __ __

1

Inspector-- - - - -- Constabl e of St . Saviour. Recommended that this report is passed t o : - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- -- - -

17

'I

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ot

248, 120, 6

Chil drenz

1 8 . 8 . 68

120, 248 Tel ephoned Cen-;;er.:.er Gan:~..::-1 t:r.a·~ I had moved to 6 Haut de l a Ga..-emc a:-,C: .,:U:.-;; woo1d f ol low . He was pleased to hear t his as he fe~:s Court ~c~ion i s ne cessary in this case .

19, 8 . 68

Called at the Pa.ri3h ihl: with l•dmission Forma tor signature and Centenier GardcL arrivcJ . He caid he fe l t this case should be reported to the Attorr,cy Ge~c rel . I asked i f

::Oc.u ue.:n 1·:nrned at the ?arish Hall on the previ ous occasion bu-;; ! .u saic h~ did not war.t the stigma of the Parish Hall on tl:is fa:;.ily w::C. ·,:,,....... ld leave the matter in the hands of the exp.::r;.::; - o~ :J.:::;>~r'~::.cnt!

After talkir.,: :i'Ur-;;i:er r.c d~.;ciaed ;•tith that the children snoula re~a~ u~ ~he Rou.e for about a month and that I would warn that arzy f'urther t r ouble would result in Court action . 19 . 8. 68

Called at the Par:.sh H~ll ·:r...~c. Case f.istory and agreed that tr.e cm.:.uren Ghould roLJ.ain a t Haut de la Garenne until Tuesday the lOtn Septc:tbcr. ~ext and that s hould be told t h ere would be a Court C<:.:>c i f they we re r emove d before that date •

• n

Child Care Ot:fi oer. CHILDREN ' S OFFICE 20th August 1968.

18

6, 120

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1B 8\. Job lut 'DOt Pi.ai ept.m u:nt11 Prlcla.y. 6 hCBt anA . - 4oee . . . laviy 120 ailft · lt• Sat..-en.4. l a.plaiJII4 that 111ae woulCl DOt be able • woft d ..,....,. \ha'\ M abUbU woul.Cl ltM4 all JaU atuouoa. to7 tMm MOll a.aa.o; ua4 t.bi oldl4* ~~ vul tlAJ \bet:r "-• 120 wu pl.....S w ... iho W. all4 ..U it ... Ml!1be4. Wka4 abwt p1tibs aao\bu b84 MIA clo1M • 11ttll n a.t!lol'aU. . btl"" thv h-.~ Obllar.D &64 I tb1iak lt laM wul ltft

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41

~ory

f'or Westaway C-:-.-cr.'=' •

Sheet No . 62

NAME.___

120, 6

______

DATE OF BIRTH._____________________

I~te

2$. 10. 64 . jn th, o" 'iee . ilF: <.rri v!·d in J ersey <.: ·ort ni ~bt :J.£0 with v:i tl: whol'l t e l.ur bt':"'n cohahi tin<.. durine the past two year., . She seems a r l es.sar.t intel1i_..,r.t ,..oman and : rofe s ;;;.,-e to be vury fond of children ; she told me her ro h -~· ~,a:: d€licate and so she had to help with a younge r brothe;r :c.~. hor::e , is ~ . of E. She divorcei ter first husband by whon: shetad . l i v O:le at her r·arents ' rorr.e , whert:: she lives yJ:en in ~neland . ShE! and hwe been livint. .here durine the past 2 yea1"S , YI"JAks eo ohe eave birth to Md HS 6 tae beu1 talking ahout 120 and durin~ the time sl--e '~--o:> tho .. eiJt it would not be too di·ficult because they now have 'l c)',ilr by their union . talK:s o~ se ·ine the Pri ..,st v:ho oarrhd him at H, says he C'lDDOt understand why he marri ~->c the "i Y·st ; he tal keel of return in!:. hom"' and !'i ndin~ the little '-irl elor.e in the house '>8 the mother w;1e out drinking , so despi ,;e hie own faults he doo;.s seem to have had a diffic"1 t time whHet mar ~e~ to his ife . :md visited ";he Creche a soon as the_. arrive1 in Jersey and er.11•ire.: atou"; having tl:e chi dren out ~ they would like to make a ho:Jt:: ·-or ~hem . said tLey 1\"0Uld have to visit the office to get r-ermi~sior. . 'ill ey later visited on Sunday l€Jth October ,-,.nd unfortuMtely at the sam€> tiroo as who always has the children out on Sunda_r (usually , o s •·or them whilst she stays at home cooking the chicken 1). v ae v ,_cy arusive to and said he •:as no~ fit to have them ; she call~d him a bigamist1 I explair.e;l to that we would l ike the children to be at home - we had trit~d to obtain a fo~-terhome for tbe but with R. C. children it is not &lways ea.sy to find a sui table fosterhome '"here they could be together. We would 1 ike the parents to make an effort to care "or the children but I said no doubt v1ould complain . As she takes the cl:ildren out each Sunday I sucge' t~d they should se the children and possibly tak'e them out on a Sa turd~ . I also t old she could call to see the children at the Creche ~urinz t~e we~k whilst w~s working if she so wished . I 8m:r·lain tl:.at is b-=tck on the Island ·md h~.s never maintained the children . f elt that the matter should be .. ~-:-ted out in a Court of law . I told that permission has only been given for and to take the children out on 3. Satu:::-1 [;,Y "or the ti.&.e being and re agreed with this arrangement . Before ".nd left I said I would cs.ll to sefl her at shortly . said he would not bt. returning to His :r·arents now live in ; I gatbt:r l.e is a member of a l&rge family and has brcther::J :md : o- istere . He wa.s happy to ".&lk about 120 and 6 and ::;e .-;!' moe• S\nx:ious to make a b.o::~e :'or tl'.em. 51 ' \ In the Jln cnilt.· Cour t of th e Island of Jersey. 1'a ke notice .11 ~· hound tor the p~ nod ol hdorl' the said l'ourt on 120 th.11 vou tlll' years of recogni7ancc entered into day of '9 7 .. t ''lndt the foiiO\nng ;m· the nmditions to he observed h~ \'•>U during the said period :- I. 1 ~·~1.1 ~. Th,tt : ~llt be uf good hchavtour and appear bt:fo n: the ~aid Court '' h~:n (;tiled upon to 111111\ • Ul 8 l!. ltu~d inrmed iately aQd do no r ref!lrn t herel o. uo -..o . • .\nd •f \ou fad to observe any of the condition~ of your rccogmzancc \O il w ill he liahlt- to he apprehended and to he sentenced for th e offence day o f I ha>~e reod 19 the above notiCe and unders tand what ·~ requ11ed of me. 120 Stgned t of 1 .A.~ /. • " 19 ~ •(I ( «• GREFFIER SLBSTITUT E 73 r MEMORANDUM To:- From:- , • A • S'lli th Esq • 1 Chi1drens Officer J. Thomson Eaq . , Superintendent For the attenti on of Dote re: 6 12th September, 1977 - "The Inebriate ~o~n" 6 returned here on Friday 9t;. Ser>tember 1 19771 once again und Ar the influence of drink . She was not difficult or abuaive 1 but she had obviously inking heavily . (Ten LARGE Bacardie and co':-·· acco rdin~ t o in a "Pub" in the vici nity of the Wei ghbrid~ ! ! ) 120 Frankl y , ve are et a l oss as to hov to dea l with t his recurring 6 situation. age and her recent history of me ntal health and suicidal tendencies have l ed ue to adopt a ulov-key" a pproach . 6 Thie has proved to be correct vis a vie but vhat effect continuing behavi our of this nature vill have on our other chi l dren I s hudder to think!! I would Yish to seek a Case Conference of a ll intereete1 parties when Mre . r eturn8 from l ea~e if continues with 6 this behaviour . 6 vas not well last veek, missed two days at vork and wae seen by Dr. Hugh . 6 Dr. Hugh gave an internal examinati on , coming to the conclusion that she might possibl y hgve had an ear ly miacarriace if it were not an exceptionall y heavy peri od . She hae now been taken off "the pill" and recommended f or a "fin>" to the Pacily Planning Clinic . 6 ( is of course responsible for her own medical care.) 1"or 6 soce reason, a fter hie examination , Dr . Hugh saw fit to warn a bout promiscuous sexua l behaviour . ~/ .~/({!,~ J . Thomaon Superintendent. is very fond of Prawns and always buys a bag fu ll after ( 6 she hae bee n d riP~ing . Poeeibl y her own vereion of a "Prawn Cocktail!!" ) 79 e PRESCRIP-rf>N SHEET 120 IN - PATIENTS ONLY /-:~_)~ c., <~~~ REGULAR DRUGS ONLY 0 DAlE Me thod ' O of p'~ DOSE Lf/t/1. ___ ,, --- -- - , . [v -.- -~-----r-·-1 ! r 'I ~ .:/1- I , >r. <-~ ' -~ -~ -- cl)'J _ I - ~ SIGNATURE 11 c OTHIII / / X ~;_k: //. .::::;- I _ ·- £) C-,._ / PHARMACY r·-- ___ _ l _ /-::) ....:· c -C·c c. c ; r DISCONTIN'JED · DATE 'oNITIALSI _ ; 1r·.tr I ' ,.£-\ TIMES OF ADM N 1 I ------+----+Ad_"-"-"-r~ -~ -+1_ ·- ·;.:• . !I' DRUG t7zt:(L(~ _(Jfc .. ,./ ·- · "-+- - ~ r-1~- ., (' I 1 (I -- ~------ ----- ..... . ----~ --- - - - ----- -- - \ 1 ( l ___ -i - -·-- - - a-- - - - ----- ." --I ~- \ \ (( < ( I ( < • 86 ! I .. ----- PRESCRIPT!~ SHEET t IN-PATIENTS ONLY / ~L_C/ C REGULAR DRU GS ONLY o I SIGNAT URE DRUG DATE ~ cJ ~ (..&...~ -- to. b-et"~ -+t~ ;;;;:/?~L 1 r /J 6 ~r k--1- ~ 1 - ------ -- ---· -=::--=-:::4-- - - -- - DISCONTINUED DATE - PHARMA CY ~',NITIALS !l- r ---- - -· -- -- I ----- ""'- - -- . -- " ~I -- - ~ ~-- -- ' - - ~ - - -~ -~~-- - ~ - - J _____ • ____ - ~ - - j- --- ~_ _ '¥~~ ~ -_~- . -- ~ v - - -E/~8'g ~ )0 21 ., n _ _ _-_ - _ . - - - - -- --- - .J 87 - THF JERSE-.Y G ROUP OF HOSPITALS rht· <.;t'nnal ll o<-p1 tJ I. C I l er,t·~ ' el.:phnn(.' ()'\ 14 \ ,,.._ -'i n 7 1 ooof~ 1 nl,tll•ll ....,. "~ ~ 25 PSYCHIATRIC CLINI C JUl~ ");/) I 21st June 1 9·17 Confident.l.al Hr.J.Thon:.son , Haut de 1a Garenne Gor ey . Dear Mr . l'homso n , re : 120 120 is to continue ne r present med1.cation . found ner ably well but s he is obv iously in need of s ome Kind of employment . Sne herae l l' mentioned working with some kind of a nimals e.g . at the Anima l Shelter, or wi t h children . I would t.hinK ~hrriK the tormer l.S prelerable if anyth1.ng could be arranged . 1 Yours s inc~el.y , / J . .P • .trogart.y Cogsul.tant Psychiatrist 89 THE JERSEY GROUP OF HOSPITALS Thl' Gene ral lloo;pttal. Jer'ie y . C I ~ 4 :! 4 2 1 elephone 05Jd t ,, ,- "· ' " ' " ' • ' " " • • f ' I .4m•"'ot'rt It \4 A. SYCEIATRIC CLINIC .. r . ~-'horns on , h aut Je ::.a };.renne , ~orey , ~ ?..~...UV ILLc . .. l , e~r .·.r . ~ 1 :.om:.;on , 120 120 sr.o'..l2.G c0ntin .e '...O t8. ·-:e t!:e .c-n'n;"ice 0 . 5 G.C : t .. illi: thut " . l. s . . It i~: 1:.y i: r~:: s 1 c n , wi1 cL y ... P.j<.J.~>' or mety :.o r aL ree \o'itL , th·.t 120 s och ·1viour cnntirtuPd t .J be ir.. ~ro'-·t;i on : revi ous t E:rfor.cs a d do wn ~· w:.t-n she !.:~~> for c:. ti:.. 1: lo.·t t'l t1··, er un.l I Lz.ink on ,>neo occ·l ic:1 ·u.:-o ·t en:~·:: -__:: i~. t:.L ,lr·-:c nt:.on room . •n 120 ' ~ c·1 1 , I t:.:!l. tten: Tl 1 r ov.. , .Ji.t- sta: l.S to C!'t..at£ .JO:.(· :o :.er8e: f . :. . . I :t :L · ~::t:: 2-f-;:::-r;Jri'lte to call ....._,-...:._ ~· ;.;r.e:l 5Lt: .s c~red ti.at o!' di:;tur -&net: tC' ~ raw ~!ttention 'nv.4"'..~ it ~(in,l i~ Yours sincert:;y , ,; : . ~) . r- . _1) 3r-::.,• :.:on.s tyt ant . ~·yc: i·.,t r i.:.;t) _j 95 I ''TEll:'EN'!' Is 120 Re li~~;ion: f- o~n :-.EPOhT D . ~ . B. l 96? Catholic 6, 247, 248 ~.othe r: Si hlirwa : I S i~ce s ~ e sp~a~ at Court llbH contie d o r 0. e n in further t r ouble a go, 120 haa no t t r e Lnw. w it~ Otherwi ae, her be haviour has been on l y t r.~ t u: • hic h a he ia C" pe ble. Ecployoent waa ~oun1 fo r 1-• .-r 4t b:1t 120 m&M "'B rl b l not fr. r onl v two w eke. She re~~ino ~1 &!:1plo yed a~~ s he 18 ~i~i a ~ e d wit ~ comPUlaorv s c hoo li ng . She reoaine e ~d le e aly restless, hor ed an~ c~~ t inually seek i:~ a t tention. She is bas ica l l y l azy ann unhelpfu l , but a he i s no t reallv c~pao le of s us t ai ned effort and a nn• i cation. I She i s oti ll un.-Je r oilrl oe1ntion a:1rl asa5 Dr . :"o,-·3rt) ~;t interve.la . Hf!r present si t·c!B tior. i R cct'?let9l y - r ·Js tro ti.w :'or 'Jll concerne1 , ir:c ludi ng 120 herself . .". ov of wordng age , but v.' r tual ly unempl o vsble , she is no t .,~nt ed in the hos · el situ tion and h 111r home i s nn unauita " l e environoent . At Haut rie l a :lnrenne, we co ntinue to c 1re fo r her ar.d to conta1n o the beat o f our 'l~· ility , b·J t I 11n cer tain :hat one day wi ll toke matt" re into her owr hnn~s ir. o:rd"'r ~ o for~ e ar. ~o t r e impasse. 120 At the ~ oment, i: voul-'~ "?">ear tre o nl · via :- le c uroe ooen t o the Court ie t.o in~ ":" r o··er :o be o " P'OOd be havi our f or one t o t wo ve~t re . Super inte nd e n t 20th Ju: e . 1977 109 STATES Cr Mr. J .P. J~R SS '/ PSYCHOLOGIST Hollywood B.A. MSc. A.B.P·s.S. ,/'(;>_)~ J; TEl2..(2 42 EXT.293 !1~ r:~-~- GENERAL H~ GlOUCESTER ST, iEJIS{Y. v 14th April 1977 /c__c 1/v , Psyche ogistfs Repo rt on: 120 62 Haut de la Garenne This Fourte en year old educationally ~ub-norma l girl has fo r many years p~e s ented considerable socia l proble ~s t o those charG~ d with caring for he r, and the pr o ce ~~ of ma turat ion and per s onal d e v e l op~ent has bee n t edious ly Glow and pond erou3 . She h a s be en a pupil at two for ~ a l­ adjus tcd and E . S . l~ chi l dren, and she ha s the dubious d i st inct i on of havi ng been expell ed from both . In the Isla nd she ha s been m o~ed on various occasions from one residential e s tablishme nt to anot~~r . The pattern of he r life s ince the aee of about t en years h3s been one of fairly relentless chang e . 120 The security and affection which s o de sper a tely cr aves is denied to her by t he extre~es of behaviour in ~ h ich s~e indulc eG . Each place in ~hich she lives now views itself as a tempora ry holding point a nd looks fo r ward to the ti ~e when s he will eventually oove on. The most worryinf feature of the offence s of wn1cn is now accus ed is her ina bili t y to vi e ~ th e ~ in any s e r i oua way. She sees herself as a "loony", and/her own ey es this exp l a ins anyth ing she doe s and exonerates her from personal bl ame. In terms of mora l r e~ ponsibility she is very much like the seven to eight ye a r old c hild who is una ble to put herself in the shoes of the victims of her behaviour . 120 / 1n The Law and leeal process appear to carry little 120 threat for Ev en the s anction of being plac ed in Bors t al is i n s i g nifica nt in that it would merely mee n cha ng ing one institutional setting for anot he ~ . She even feels tha t she would 365 be pl~c e d with (alreaj y at 3ors tal) a nd this , fro~ her point of view, would be quite acceptable. 120 is cert~inly in need of p s y~hi a tric he l p ~nd is at present receivinp it , and t he report s from H~ut d e la Gnr enne sugge s t tha t she i s certa inly b e n e fitin ~ fr o~ this . Tho rc~ l dile r::.nn i s t=:a t she wi s hes to be fr ee in tha co!'A!.·:mn . i ty and fr ~c; to choo3e he r own a c~ ivitie s , fri ends a ~d socia l out l ets . No t~i ~ r in her p ~ r so n a l h is~o r y s u g ~ es t s s he i s capab l e of mak in F d~ci~~o n s f o~ hers elf o ~ of n ~r. eirl v.-il l co nti nuA t o pose very conc idera ble problee1s for her s e l f and the co ~ununi ty r.:.t l <' r r,e . 113 - 2- Int ellectually 120 is of limit ed gene r al ability and on my most recent asncsnoent s~e obtained a Full Scale I .Q In all arcan of educational achievement her e qual to 70. perform8nce is extrc~ely weak and she i s virtu~l ly illiter3te . Her rc adinL aee on rec en t as~essmen t i s at about the seven yea r ~he i s extrc~ ely self conscious about these weaknesses l evel. and goes to considerable lencths to conceal them from her c ontemporaries . '~' ""\\ v \. i ' '· .\~\~\. yJto-v\ J . P.Hollywood Consul tELnt Ps,yc~..'olo . . . ist / ' J 114 flf LA SUPER Ti, 1 DJ:-I[iH ' S RE rorn 120 Religior• : D. O. B. 62 . Roman Catholic fa ther : Mother : S1clings: 120 6, 247, 248 has r~mained at Haul de la Garenne since she last appeared at Cour t . She tends to be very strongly influenced by whom she is inclined t o hero i ne wo1ship . J~venile 120 'ld::o absconded once since her last Court appearance and stay~:d c:.;t overnight, probably at her mothe:r's house . She did so after hearing that was in La Moye Prison . On her return , she was placed in detention and s;,e v1as kept tht:!re beyond the point that expected to be released . 120 Apart fran ' s infl uence , her behaviour can be controlled within acceptable limits , although she s~eks and needs an e normous amount of individual attention . Although I have described 120 as sex ually amoral , it is true to say that she is not " a f emme fatale" . She does not really seek to use sex to further her own ends , but rathe r she has be~n used or abused by othPrs . 120 s employment prospec t s are very poor arxious to find work . altho~gh she herself is f o r the present there would appear to ~e no real alternative to rt'maining here for the forseeable future , 120 120 ~ would predict a pattern o f bLhaviour with spells of being fairly settled for several weeks at a time, interspersed by outbursts of absconding end other dev1ant behaviour . 17 . 4 . 77 . 121 ~ ---- ------------------------------------------~------------~ H.AUT DE LA CAhEfii'!E SUPt;hl N 'ENDEUT ' S liRPOkT 120 Religion I b. . 62 Roman Ca t ho lie Pather: Mother: 6, 247, 248 Siblir.ge : 120 vaa re-admit t ed to Baut de la Oaranne on 28th January, 1977 , tollovinc the breakdown of her placement at I.e Preference Chil dren ' a Home • 120 hae a lon ~ history of de prived childhood and beiD? brouabt up in reeidential care since she vaa very YOUJ\6• Sbe boa alvaya pooed ~ltiple ~hAvi our probleoa and , in fact, abe baa been eent to tvo special residential schools for u ladjus ted ohildren. B.> ~h thes " placements ended in fa ilure. 120 ia ex c lu~ ed ~rom normal schooling and attends morning school on t he prenisea At Rout de la Oa renne . She ia a p tient of Dr. Fogarty . the Payoh1a t rtat , And attends hie outpatients c linic en a~ost a ~crt­ nigh tly bfteia . She is under s edation preacribed by Dr. Foprty. 120 i a arguAbl y t he moat diatur bed adol escent ~ rl at present in the car e of the Jersey Education Committee . She is or limited int e llirence and very poor concentration, ahe i a rea t leea and eaaily bored. Sbe c r avea attent ion all the time and is, generally apeakina, only vall be~aved when aha ia in a one to one situation with an adult . Unfortunately t bia ia not a lways possible • She ia eexually amoral and , at the ave o' 14 veara , ia already fairl y ex perienced . She has a Mother and Step-father, but becauae of ber " o ther•a ovn special problema it ie no t possible for 120 to live at home or £? home even f or veelcenda. Vhen not under s eda t i on, 120 can have ~ery aevere temper tantrums. She has abacnnde d on several occaaiona , ahoat a lvaye po i ng With ano ther girl. She aeea abec ~ndina •• being exci ting end an esca pe from normal routine. 120 until other lons-tera arrangeaente are made f or her future . I t ia probablT too late nov, a t thia etase ot her development, to alter the course hel" lif e will take and I a. pessiDistic about her fu ture . She reall,y needa epecialiaed hel p in a much smaller r eai 1ential setting. At the aoment ve at Baut de la Carenne a re simply containing c ontinued •• ••••• •• 133 - ..,--- 2 She clings to a fantasy of the Father she has never really known . Attempts have been made, and are continuing to be made, to trace 120 1e aware him through the eervices of the Salvation Army . that ahe mar be dieillusioned if the search proves euooesstul, but she would rather the search vas made than nothing vas done . ~~ Superinten~~~ ~ 2A e 3 71 I --------- 134 Dear Mr . Thomf son, I received your le tter t his a . m. and am replyin0 straight away as I suppose it's very imp ort ant 120 to I ' m afraid there ' s ve r y little I know about he r fath e r ; I don ' t thinK I ever met him as he ' a left the Islan d before my arrival ( I think ,. He was , If I do remember anything I ' ll let you know I believe . 120 6 but when I go t to Jersey and were both in the Creche ru1d Mrs . was living with in . I should think is t he one to ask as she has s uch a wond erful memory and was a travelling encyclopedia auout all the families ~ Or perf.aps Mr b . if she ' s still 120 around . I re member ve ry well , of course . Or 120 a s I knew her~ A most attrbctive and lively c hild but wi th every potential for adolescent difficul ties . I don ' t er.vy you your job , but it is very we ll worth wr.ile arJd must keep you VLry busy which is the most imp , r tant t hing . Yes I had heard you were at Haut u e la Garenne . Mrs . wrote a few weeks ago and told me ; unfortunately I only s eem t o hear from her o~ce a year no w t hat she ' s do i ng pioneer work at the Ge neral Hospit al ! I did tell her I ' d like to visit Jersey in aut umn but am waitinb for an invitation ! P erhaps she ' s t oo busy tnese days . Ve s , I ' m ei . .Joying my retirement not\ that I've adjusted to it . I SJJen 4 my time painting and wri ting . Have won . Still wai ting to be yublished tho ugh . I don ' t really try hard enough . I really prefer painting . Have just finished six fairly large oil pain t ings since term began in September and am very pleased wi th them as I have got my own style. Ho wever it ' s a frustrating job for on the whole pe ople prefer c h ocolate box paintings and don ' t like anything di fferent . At the moment 1 ' m beginning to think what an aimle ss life I ' m leading, bu t I thi nk that ' s just sprir.g in the air ! 139 .2. I go away as much as possible . Am off for a mini weekend t o london on Saturday and the following weekend am~ off wi t }. t~o writer friends to an Adult College in for a Writing cum Italian weekend. I ' ve been learning Italian during the past 18 months and went to Italy for Christmas . It was most interesting b~t very cold , and I no lo~r envy Gracie Fieldst I c am e back with 6) small paintings though , and they are a lovely souvenir of my travels . For Easter I ' m off to France for 10 days - three oays in ~aris and a week wi t h my Fre11ch friend in central l r hAI; she's removing i n June so the visit wi ll be rather sad as I shan't be visiting that village again I suppose . I 'v e taken uv Yog b too which I find very interesting and on Dr.' s orders I ' ve been losing weight and am now do wn to 10 st . I think I ' m thi n enough now and am rathe r I !eel worried as I seem to continue g e tting t hinner . fine though and much younger t This lunchtime I dashe ~ out and bought a mar s bar t I seem to spend al J my t ~ altering my skirts and dres s es t It ' s laughable really as so many of my friends can • t lose any weight at all . I don ' t belong to Weight Watchers I just use my own determination - no biscuits and caKes or chocolates. I think we all tend to eat too much . We ' ve h ad a pretty hard winter t his year - jolly c old - but t n ese last few days have been lovely with the feel of spring in the air . The croc uses are out on the Stray and are so colourful and p retty . I ' m very glad you ' re at Haut de la Garenne- at last they ' ve got a decent warden t good work ! Ke e p on with the Kindest re6 ards to you , Sincerely , ruo~ab~~~~in PS If I do remember I ' ll let y ou kno w; my memory ' s not so go ~t hese days 01 perhaps it • s a case o f not v.8.lttinglremember lots ot thi ngs t 140 PSVCFOLOGIST STAT ES OF J E RSEY Mr. J. P. Hollywoo d B.A. MSc. A.B.P s.S. GENERAl HOSPITAl, GLOUCESTER ST , JERSEY . TEL.24 24 2 EXT. 293 17th January 1977 \. t-1 r • C • A • Smi t. h , Ch ildrens Officer , Child r ens Depar t ment, H i~hlands , Rt . Saviour ' J Dear Mr . Smith , te: 120 La Prc:e re1.: · C:':". :1:! '!"<:-'!IS P.om~ is un1outtc~:.:r a ·rery d j sturted and e::JOt ionally 120 Jolcscen~ dis t eirl . Her r~stlcGS hync r activity, he r i nabilit? to sett::..e to a:1yt!-~in.; , her di;;turbed sleep nattern , noor aopet i tc and ln~~ of abili~y to fcrm relation~·hL).3 all i:.:ii...:a'... e tL 1t ..:c :-.:-.:..··-:> ~.n extre:.ely d isturbed , ~i~tressed and di~~icult younP e1 r l . She still !:lanif<>sts the tc!':!ner tnntrw:1s of a young child and sho~s considerable s~~~~s in ~ood a:1d cxneriences consider:l'L lc social ar.xiety·; Thu::: she iG un~·ole to trave l on buses alone , ~ill not go i nt o a stop , disco t heque , c l ub etc . Thece pr oblems are co~bir.ed by a fai r l y d e fin i t e physical ~:-~turi ty and a v e r y obv iou:: sexual awareness on her bct~lf . I believe that your dcn ar e now c onsjdcr j nc the poasibility of uu t t1n~ 120 on the This is o~ course primari ly c ontracentive pill . a matter for ~edical ooinion althou~h it has very considerable social and rsycholoci.ca:. i~-:;1 i. cr. t io.1s . In cy view a nd in co:.~idcration o;: t~e L"ir~ ' s :)e rsonal:..ty I bel i e v e t hat such R covP ~8u~l Lc ~ wine on~ as nn unwante1 orecnancy for 120 ·~auld ~ercly add yet anothe r ~ource of intolerable stre this vou."'!<' ri..rl. P.o·~ ~v er thia is not a matt~r t o be tn'-':.cn l1_:~.tl:r~;., .. 1 : tr-..:·t yo~!· dcNJ.rt:'ent .,..ill seek t he best r-.•. 1. j cal ·dv icc ~bout the tcd vi sSi. bili t y or otherw isc o f such a course of action . / /' ;' •' 147 MEMORANDUM From :- To:- J . H. Thoms on Esq. , Superintende nt C•A • Smith 8pq , , Chi l dre ne Officer Dote re : .. 5th Jan~ary 1977 120 •e received a call f r om Mr. Smith on 31st December 1976 at 4. 10 p. m. to inform us that had been picked up dr unk • 120 120 rived here a t 4 . 30p. m. escorted by Mrs. and Mr . Skinner . wee put into th e Right-hand de t e ntinn r oom where Mrs . and undres sed her and put night c lo thes or.to her. The child wee retching and brinfing up bi l e . ~e thought it best to call the G.P. to cl ear ourselves . The cell WAS aade a t s .oOp.m. a nd he nrrived at 8 . 20p. m. I n be t ween t • e ca ll to the G.P. and hie arrival , 120 s behavi our went f r om s l eeping to that of a demented person . ctor gave her an injection of l Oc . c . of valium a t 8 . 30o. m., but t his had no effec t on her behaviour . Sheets and blanke t s had to be r enoved because she vas tryi~: to hang herse lf. I m ~ de a cal l to La Pre ~ erenc e to ask them when they were p.0i ng o pic' 120 up , reluctantly they sai d 10 . 00 n . m. on Saturday morning, ! f her attitude wns alri ~ht . La ence wee contacted agai n a t l 0. 25p. m. hy Mr . 'i'ho~e 0n "'ecauee o f 120 s hysteri ~a l condition . Mrs . came to see he r and took her back t o La Pre "erence at ll . OOp. !!!. I t is obvi ous that t his very distur bed r irl of somewhat low intell igence re-acts viol entl y to being locked up . Her reaction mi<"'ht beet be des cr ibed qs q form of cl austroph obi c hysteria. Mr. 120 l ater confirmed that 120 h •d sett led down a t L~ PrefPrenc e . cl aims to have obtained the dr ink a t the Sacra Coeur. ------ ~--:;/,1(~-;(t~c c(~~ 148 MEMORANDUM From :- To :- ,I . ~ . fh•;~ -:- , 'r>n ior • ..,j}rl r :::: • r • ··~ ~ ~ r t rl" r·· ' l. ,.. r l l "· Date 120 T• ' .. l r.' Lr i. r c o.,f.;,.. ..... ~ rt ~ 120 f r '-; rr 1~ :v ·u rr ;-r.in ly , n 120 r --1 ·. MIJy ' c ' ''-':~ .... \ 1 ol· r ' 0: 'f f"'r_ r '- : ,f'V + ~' .; lnr'l . Tl,~r .-:- !""'r r·c tn b<> ; p 1 ro i""'t'" h!irr.""'"'"'• nr :ron ·1 C'ln' ,·c:. l:"l h l 1 (1 r r• '•ffict'r, .-~ill -"rr ~h < 1 "C:. i '" i,t.,~rv'i '"' · T 11i- v1ill l">k~ J,d, 1rninr: .,r t ~ r Fri" { ' .,['•'-t j,.,,., 1 fJ76 . r t " •f-,p r q •,~ ~ ~ r' t")tlr 11 . "f qnr:n r:1.-.r r - ' .!. th -r.- 1 ' .. i~i .... ldc'. r t r F{ r ~ f I\. 120 li ty nf ". in =-n~l 1 '1""!' .. r ;- .~ r ~: n :J ·r ill t1 i 'i"" ""r r---11 !r. Y'· ~ "v~l•r"d !. lp•rr . 120 1 r' ' _/ / - /rt'~L-~ I.~ .~ -.r ni'1r Child r •re Offi~ -- --~ - _""'--z_ ( -~ 167 MEMORANDUM To :From :- ;tr . Saith Date 2 Jt h June 1976 120, 136 120 ~ .. u 136 brought back· t n 1 ·, ~! re. ·ne 1>y :he :'oli l'e st 3. 15 p . m. tu; l ')',r. J-..4.T.c ·.:d ;'l acP.1 ir. dPtontion. }.e:, a;pt;:.::- ... 0 V t.'rE· r:··. d ' •n:: .~ o-; •' 1'"1\i.,.ht at :;<.' o +:: h o:"" =-=.n ~-l~rlge ot cas le :l.a... uouro etc . ':.; !!O h1 . 169 MEMORANDUM To:From:- r'Y c 1... 0'76 __ Date J . 120, 136 f) 't'"'l. ,. '' ' \ . "' .. ' ~; ~)f) lit:e i:: :) !: .: .:.. --; . ::.~w t , , Ll ,l.tl .... _. ~~ ll ... " .... ,..... ~· . 'l l . rr • : nr ;... ~ . . !,) 120 I e 1 • :1z. d 136 d ':'Le.v ·,:ere f ··..me! ·~; ~ Cr'~U ::1 t t c' ~·;ere nu: int !P:c!.:: :·: ;,:; ~r>:--."•i•:if':; :)!'"' '1il~}·t . s;~:·~; t r'e "P'· sc,:. :'"':; +-! ,, r ~nni n r~ ·11 ay wns !'ear of 136 i~ 't->: 1t.:>r ·: .• ·:• or1 :·~":ur,1:l.\' ~~"tPrt0:1n . 120 re·1s -r- W'"~s •,: r-:-:; o·:Ar g··dpb' Rwny . 136 hr.d r. 1 ~xcune t ' ::1<1~ ~ . :H:d were 1 ~ n · "' r ~ e r: i I J ': '"' :: c }. 'I 0 1 t i s c:. • 1"!:' • 0thers 's 173 - --- -------------------------------------------. Mr. Smith / • De: 136, 120 These two £irle did attempt t o abeoond during the evening at 6 p • • on Friday the 5th September, and were caught. I epent a long ti t alld.ns to them - apparently thoy took v ry little notice as they later abeoonded . They ran otr at 9.30 p. m. and were reported to Police who found them and returned thom to Baut de la Oarennf' at 1.40 a . m• 250 MEMORANDUM To :From :- Date . . ~ . 8.75 . • 136, 120 l.e Theee two girln were very reoenttul a t t~ven th lice and oelves u p the day before to da~. nsgreoaivo the whole of the f ollowing vina / bout 4. 30 thio cage t o oltmnx vhen lhey shouted nbuee at the member of sta ff on duty With th ran quick ly from the bui ld inB. 1·1 though we a a lerted etc . , but no news over night rohed Police were round a bout we oould not find them . still mioaing on and t nd tho frirla onday 25th 1net. r -;- 0 251 MEMORANDUM To :- From:- Mrs . A. Ferguson, Child Care Officer Haut de la Garenne Date 9. 7. 76 . Wh en visiting Mrs . and Mr . this morning re the recent episode of 120 returning to Haut de la Garenne from a home visit, smelling of alcohol , it was hint ed to me that might have been gettin g drink from " the man with the digger" (I presume they are referring to ). I questioned them further about this but both were rather vague but d id mention two o ccasions - once whe n she got money from this man f or Clgarettes a nd another time when she was dropped at the house by this same man who was driving a van . I could no t determine how long ago t hese incide nts took place or to what extent, if any , Mr . and Mrs . were trying to pass the buck and clear th e mselves of giving 120 alcohol . 120 Neverthe l ess, feel t h at we should ke ep our ears ope n about and if we h ave any further reason to believe that the n the matter should be 120 is still i n co n tact with reported to the Police . 171 MEMORANDUM To:From :- Mr . Smith Date Re : 20 . 2. 76. 120 120 has recent l y been known to refu§e advances from 147 saying she vas saving herself for " " - he evidently lives at St . Martin and I wondered if we c ul d find him a nd warn him off ! 178 120 lil'he:1 120 1'1rst Clli':H:' she WfJS 'lrrogant and AbUSiVP. - sJ-.e w ~·;.ld throw very violent f1 ts of temper . These beCJHr:e sn frequent thAt stRff were inc r ellalnrly cnr.ce r ned . We ther referred her t 0 Dr . Hugh who has p r esc r ibed Lnrgacti l t wicA n dny . S1nce then 120 hns c~lmed do wn qu1 te R lot , yet she is still very much a ;troblem . Uurrently we have her llv1n~~ 1n '' , r oup of older children - she rof C) . ShP is 1l. very idle pe r son r.-1t wanting to wo r k and qu1ck to lose in:.£-rest in ar.y tf!SJ< . She 1:> the srune i n the clnssroom too . ~hen bored she will ~np the table with a Knife nnd scowl nt everyone . 'hen 11sked to Join in any Avent she will sullenl y r::.umblc th'lt she d(')<>S not wi sh to do so . She s~1rks nt thP boys encourR~lnp th e m to be 1nsolent tar.d will s wear or t11lk in n fi l thy way to impres:1 them . She hH.s n yearni~ for cignr etten •u cl hns been known to nllow sP xunl inter course fo r the price of~ ciparette . i~ ou~> .:ihe 1s defian: fH,d rullen with stnf f - they finrl dlff1cul•y 1r1 copi rw with this ~i r l. She renlly nPeds ,..,ne pe r sl"n full - time who hns endlPss prstlt>nce ··m! unders•••ndin1; . 3he is r ele ntless in her persistent dPsiro to bf' with her f1mily . Hn:r.e circumstAnces nre r1isnnterously ooor iterself tl:nt i:nthf"r 1s 'lt hnoe cnpin.; fairly . ~P !lr•vP lim :~lks Wlth 120 •:nd then she will oehnvc l:lnderr,tely :'or ·• fe w hnu r !l . .>he cannot r.:•nntr>in th. . c.r:d ir. her manner reminds "' !Hl '"'>!' '1 '"ddler . ~hq is n nr•turr•lly pril"!li' i ve crPAture emir:ply ln w 1n intelli,:Pncc 'rd unab:e :_..., conc-o>r.•rate . She is eAslly led 1nto '!!"li:::JJl !!rttlsfac'.i0ns 'lnd 1s 't Sf' x u:.l fc!:l'lle quid: t~ AttrHct ntter. ti..,n . ~;hi'! Lns " w~nch does s •und 1Ji ~e cute •r.d is 1n f•ct ~o0d lookinp . She hales to wear a d r ess nr skirt but is a clc"ltl ri:d who en,1oys !'rest. chonf'"e o!' clothes r er,ulnrly . GPnerAl hE'nlth pood nrd hn~1 ':P11l l hy A!)oetito . 179 MEMORANDUM To:From :- Kr . Smith Date ... 8 Re: 120 8 . 3. 76 . 120 h~~ menstruated a t l eo4 f ive therefore not pregnar.t • vee~ overdue a ~d is • 180 MEMORANDUM To :From:- Mr . Smith ...• Date Re : 11 . 2 . 76. 120 120 The Po l ice phoned durinK the morning to requeat thnt should be examined by a Police Docto ~ - Dr. Young of St . Helier. 120 . The Police eollected h6r, escorted by to l d the doctor that she vaa overdue with her period and a urine test was taken, which proved negative. We are sti ll tnking tests weekly here and these too have been negative as yet . ~/e wi ll continue to take tests weekly unti l nex t period • 185 MEMORANDUM To :From:- Mr . Smith Date Re: 9. 2 •76" 120 120 Further to sta tements made by to the Police, she was examined by Dr. Hugh n t the Co l omberie Surgery on 30 . 1. 76 . Swabs and smears were taken for evidence of any vagina l infe ct ion nnd the resul ts of these are awa ited . On examinat ion the uterus fe lt bulky, cervix s oftened and as she had not mens t ruated ther e is a possibility of pregnancy . Urine teste have proved negative to date but are being repea ted weekly until either menstruation occurs or a positive result is ob tained . • ... (The Pregnostico n Tes t does not show a positive reaction until the 7th - 8th - week of pregnancy) 186 MEMORANDUM To :From:- Mrt Smith Date Re : 4 . 2.76. 6 6 On Saturday 31 .1.76 . s l ight l y scratched her wrist while threa tening to do away with herself. Again on Sunday 1. 2. 76 . s he attempted t o gas herself with s ome l ighter fuel . , 187 MEMORANDUM To:From :- Mr . Smi th 1 Date .. 30 • . ~ 76.• Re : 120 The mqn disturbed with v oulci sePzn to be n eL p loy t~d by 120 in van by Krs . , n . He is aged about w.d , . ccordi!~ to a decent sort of 120 Dllln . Ue was warned some timP. ago abou t gi·Jing cigarettes . She 1.as lied consistently about how she met him etc . 195 I I I Kr . Smith 27 . 1 • 76 . Bel 120, 6, 136 states that on 4 . 1. 76 . (a) met her in Vellington Pnrk 6 and offered her a l ift . She says he drove around for a while and then drove to the oand dunes area at S t . Ouen. He cads adTancos o l aim.a thl\t 6 she triad to resist nod he then beca me violent . She WP.R frightened and Allowed him ;;o heve intercours'l ~titn ht>r . They thon vent to a publl.c house and had quit•' l' lo. to tlr:tnk . He threa tened her llgain with violence if eho told anyone. 6 The followinr, rlAy he cRl l ed a t her house but asked her father to tell him that she w~s out , That same dsy he came to Raut de l a Garenne alone &nd aav 120 . On the fol lowi ng Thursday 8 . i . 76 . (7) he again cnae to Haut de 1~ Garenne but 120 was at nom ~ . He went to picl: her up and return her, and t nt Of'j __.....___ 208 Jlr. Sai th 28. 1. 76. ! 120, 136 ~hila theca girlo vere being interviewed by li . P. C: . ~lliott re~arding they both diaeloe11d the follortnr inforl'lllt1onJ 136 had intercourse with 344 three times, twice in the boys' toilote , once i n the cleaners' cupboard - had interoo~e With 377 three times , ?nee i~ the boys' toilet, tvioe in a ' camp' in the grounds of Hau t de la Garenne . 120 wi t h 377 - intercourse vith 147 tvict. once in 147 in the ' caap ' once, and ' n bedroom A"\d once in the cleaners ' cupboard . These statements vere both aade vol~taril] ~nd independenrl l y . _____. . . .......___ _ ._Ill 209 ---MEMORANDUM To:From:- Jtr. Smith Date . Rea 22 .1.76. 120 Police-Sergeant Bond interviewed 120 yeaterrlay but the gj.rl would not ndmit ~ o er.y T11..SbAhaviour with oitber ' 6 from the van inci~ent or ' ' a bo7friond. 147 Howover she d.i·i cl&i!;l t o havg hnd intercourse vi th on two sepr...ra ~a occr..sions in tl1s bedrooms a t !!aut de ln Garenne . Police telt this was not a very useful interview and di d not take any statements but said they would go avay and 120 lllAke more enquiries then return to see npin. Bopetully we shall find more co-operation when 120 fee l s that Police know more anywaJ ! .... 147 Later ndmitted to this misbehaviour tor the prioe of a ci garette t o 120 . Ho claims that it happened t our ti.mea but not ~or about a month . He feels she has new , ourcoe • 210 - f Jlr. Slli th 19. 1. 76. Rtl 120, 136 Sa~ afternoon Kn . vaa going for a square at about 4.30 p. a . vben ebe paaeed an On vi th her dog round the van parked in t he aide roa.d by Pilot Bouae . 'l'here wae a l ot of laughter Md noiee coming froa tM baolc a.nd 1 t croaaed her mind to question i! any of our chil dren were ina14e. However ehe paaaed by and vent around paas Anne Port , Castle and up the h1llaide baclt to the aide r oad and home . Aa abe cue t o the side road she saw the ~an a till parked an4 120 jump out laU6hlng a.nd droppi~ som~t coins . Vow reall1 auapicioua Kra. called to 120 to vai t . Upon beliriD£ the voi ce tb person drivin.r the van revved up hie engine and tried to back away . Hie aide airrow vu torn ott the 'YAD and it wu scra tched along the vllll. Kre . ran t orvard and put a band on the Window and a:Jked the man to vl\1 t. Be loolce \ very auJ.ltJ an4 when Jtro. told hill 120 waa under B«9 he stut tered that he had not lcnon. She wa.rned hill that aha could recognise hilll Md that 1! a e heard ot bill nea.r Haut de la Oare:me or 120 she would inform the police . Be wu tull ot llpol on and drove off towa.rde town. Mr. and Mrs . saw Kr. and Mr . as they were off duty tb... elvea, and asked that 120 be kept on c loee supervision as t his vna the aecond tiae i n a !tv veeka that 120 had been found 1:1 a COI:l;Jromising et,.. te . 120 vu quiet and subdued on Saturday eveniDG and then on Sunday 136 rebelled when correctecl and at l unchti.JD! both 120 a nd 136 ran oft. We in!ol"'lacl the police. The ctrla were seen in W8 111ngtor, Park: &nd Jll.re . went to the home where ohe aaw Attar " lot of e illy tall: a4a1tted that 6 6 the girla bad been there and had lett onl 7 10 minutes earlier . The pol ice eventuall tound thea both in tovn with a boy at 1 . 40 a .m. We y..1t them to bed but 136 vu a ick at 4. 20 a.m . We have sent 136 to schoo l today And are keepin, 120 wi th a maaber o! ata tt. I am concerned about 120 of l ate ae ahe haa see med to use any acceaa t o money - she is dangerously anoral, sain situa~ion to 213 - - - - -- - -- -- - - - - , MEMORANDUM To :From :- Mr Snith 6.1.76. Date . 120 120 is curreJ ttly on r.i l d sedr tion n.nd c an main tain periods of c a l m. She does reqai "e cooo tant encourager::ent' und supervision nnd is quick to t1lke ndv an t !!~.:>e of weakne .as . She is e a sily lef1d in to verba l b ·1 ttle vi th the others and then becomes l oud r. busi ve even on oc casion violent . She is a problem ns to l o ng term ca r e . We have a morning session with tt teacher a t H. D. L. 'i . but find that afternoons. get boring for he r . \le naked f or Dr Fo. ,gLrty t o see her and give us s ome ~ a a dvice ns to her future . rlowever, Dr. Hugh (who needed to - - w vri t e on our beha l f ) hnd a re ply tha t the girl hsd been seen in 1974 by oth Dr Fo ;urty nnd Mr rlollywood and t hat Mr Smith hud a copy of their re port . \le Rleo have this re port but 4o not feel tha t this helps current situation . 120 j•ow th qt c annot find a va c ancy in U. K. vill she s t a y here and bPve just one session per day or vill she need to be c o nsidered for Mont :1 L' !' bbey': 215 MEMORANDUM To:· From:· Mr Snith Date .. and 136 to~k h bnby f or u va l k this afternoon they were missing :·or r:hru·, .;- went l ooki Ls f or baby , sayi~ .... 120 l• e 120 .~9 ~_ 1 _2 ~.75. • thttt P..Jl 136 t ~: ec . 120 ho ur :·· ft e r ti.f'll e s o rt.r ·,aa upset when found vi th wus i n a house with a can He vent in a nd could no t see her a11d c a me b a ck t o re port . Mr vent lilong and h a vi ng found the door of .......pen went in and kn ocke d 0 1. sevenll doors but could not find her Ho• ever , just as he returne d a long t he corridor and loor· ed very f l ushed nnd gui 1 ty . 120 advanced She claims t hat she has known the man for n few months C:illd he h a d invited her u p to his ~oom f or drinks and ciggs ahe s ays that's all she has hsd but 217 we were worr i e d t h a t if s h e h: 1 be e n the re l onger or made a further visit then the s t ory may be di fferent s o I had !1 word wi th the "-onat f. b l ~ to s e nd n ven t i niere i n t o sca r f· them a l it t l e . 120 spent a fev )zoure i n de t ention t o s e ttl e her down \ga i n . ------------- -------------- - - -- - - ------218 MEMORANDUM To :From :- Mr. Smith Date ?O • 10.75 ~ .. I Re: • 120 This e irl ' B temper tantrums a re bect,oir..:-- violent e.rd too regula r for the peace of mind of t he eto ff . Yesterday abo had three or fo·.;r ·1e :-y s tro nc nu tb .t.rs tn cu 1'iinb t in ~ 1 "1 ~ho evenir...; wher. ~he stee d i n the l ~~ur ac r o:.!Lr:lin..; a bus e and cursing Pveryone - !l·13hed · n("' f'wee.. tL~g , ir, fc.c t typica l hysteria . hf.B put her in det ention f0r i3 ~Ouple of days t o coc 1 doY,1 . Dr. ; ugl hils re coz!lmended n couro e of Largactil. 226 # ,. STATES OF JERSE Y Mr. J.P. Hollywood B.A. M.Sc. A.B.P s.S. PSYCHOLOG IST ~NEI1Al HO~PITAl, G4.0VCE~TER ~T , TEt.2A2A2 EXT 293 JERSEY , 8th.June 1971 Mr. H. c . A . 'w imberiley Direoto.· ot Ed ucation, States Ot'fioea , South Hill, §\,Holier • re1 120 dob. . 62 , Thio little pirl' R d npr1 veri nnrl <; 1oturbed poroonn 1 hiutory will be known to you thro•..F,h ti1a roportu o f tho Chiltirone ' Office. 120 Eorlior in her school liftt 'o Ll.'t".P. viour 1.n uchool Ya& oha.racterieeJ by diqobeJiPnco , np. roni11tmPn o and pr 11 1eneoo to \enper tantrums. The~e problt> LW iH\VtJ u ow lnr,··· lv uut. r i c.. od nnd she is 11ore amenable f'lthOU[h £1r.• still orri\'PO n t w·l. o .~' nt unprod1ot nolo time" and "Will "Wander aJff if not clonoly w11 tc·, 1A a chilil c·:· low 1r;tr· ll t, ' :. c o, ... : . .i.·. h cocbjnod with her Tery lov levels of nttt .nrl' ~• t in t. r 'J 1 :1i,· e c nool uu b joctu, makes her an E .S. ll. chi ld. ':'r.P P? " u 1 t n f , ..r. the .. ,~c :&eler Intelllgenoe 8ca.le tor Children (~cottiol. :)···r... u ;-o.i f' lltion } are bB foll oYe aV<:.>rl •t l j_ -<'LrforJJ r•r . ' (I ; -.J .-: F L1ll ~<·n~n I~ c 71 71 69 120 hA.e no aAC'"r '..ni:· •·h ) • • ·· .\ 1• , · ;., ·u 0n rony o! tho otr•nrlnr~ teeta whi ch I tr1 t•l1 wit ·. h• r (':, ·n, c ; ... l .:,·. •io of Hend in1~ Ab111tya Daniela and Diack'n ~t.rr.lt E r ·• .. " J tr ,· '.t> Pt; V<>rnon'a Grnded Wo~ Read~ Te e t ) . t h o rocor;ni1 •·t t}: (' n c (':r·n ~ (W£>1 iA oln to d word and ahe etove the names o! n !ow :!.r':.trrn . ·Jther-.. :ro ohe in illiterate. She is able to nocuratoly ro:;--:· 1: ••.; r1 t.t"!n nf'nto nce f\1ld to write nW:tbera trom one to ten. .Be:roz,\: thlu ~ c • t :. P- hu :-••\ ~roan thft ter.e nnd the 4ig1te. She a.leo at1ll revoreoa thl• !uoilinr rever sible let-ters. / 7he de~r••· ·•••••••• 234 ·. • 120 -2- '..'h o d cr:ro~ o! educotionnl bocKWA.rdnese ond intellectual rct nrdation rendors school work at the pr~nry level exceedingly diffi cult for 120 . She r equires the moro specinliood curriculum and appro ach of nn l.::iN school . The fnrr ily c ircumotanoee 120 also 1nd1cote that would benef1 t trom a more ben1rn home environment. A place~ent t herefore ot a residential h~li school would seem appropriate OR a e has been suggeeted attendance at Vnl Nord School, Ouerneey with ree1denoe 1n an approved toeter home • Yours sincerely, ' J • p, iiollY'lfOOd Pe;vcholsudet o.o. Mies ?.Thornton, Ghi l dren a Uftioe 235 PSYCHOLOGIST STATES OF JERSEY Mr. J . P. Hollywood B.A . M.Sc. A.B.P s.S. GENERAl HOSPITAl, GlOUCESTER ST, JERSEY. TEl 242 42 EXT 293 1 fJt} . August 1 ')74 i( r • ~ • A • S r1 i t!. ' Cl.il.1rtcr;S c.::·i<..:•:r l:igJ.~cln1~ , 3 t . :~ .. l. v i n . . . r 120 r~~ = I t .. ;tV( 1 Y\).t.' !)Pt?:-. 120 62 ;-:!"'Ci-~. <..ttL~ rfqU··:·t of r:r~ . 120 : ~lr~! --~~rP~~.-~:,~ . :t~". ~ ~.i~ce 117'J :1nd '..Ja-3 i:l~,o:\~ed i:1 1be recr)n.:::e:l ~~!.~.,~ -,!~ i.! .. i •71 ·f'f~.icL rc. A1.tcj in t.f\r 7'l;.1Cf:r:!ent ":.t li.s ~eL(lol i.t1 . Tt".P rea~:on; t:.r.t tiJ:,I.: for such a nl:1cemer:t .~till nt"•r·rL:-: , 120 :, 1·:.:· :1.; r.o.·. evr 11 to a :·lore ~ i f.:..cant ·!e T• e <~:; !.·,:; n·~c:·: n·!r>,f?f"C'f··::~c· •dtL it:~ a:c- oci:-1tPtl-:Jr011P!:1S , 8Le ~ ··1_11 :·pr~:_t:L .. _· :.:.~i ~ . s . :; . Ci!~l wit!~ ::r~ri;l L._~ c:rnoti~I,:.tl PXi:;L'..l. · <;t .:..f:r. ·-r )h: c ;~.:· ,:: . .:.-:L c :J\.l~.<, Y'l.Or:.:!l (:· ~: ! cf~cr: :.(' • he cr)r t>d wi. :h r·.:·:~.· n:.·;! l~; in 1 !-;• ._ t.:.!~: . I :,r:: t:.~-'!'" f •1'• ir~ a;.::.;o1·J \oliih tl.P view t!.:tt.. <.~n •t:;_tr·r!'l·.t.ivt y-c;:;inent.ial ~-:.,;cer;,I~L".:. rc· .:<'·t:Lt fJ•" 120 rts ~~!.e : n.t.~ ! C( r~ t..X:·cl:.t·.! :';()rr. her pr:=scrlt r~(;'r. :>: . I l.ave ~tO :ouhL t!.·tt !.~·r problt ·::~~ i·:i_:.:_ crJnti:.u<• f'lr •lUi tl' ~Om,... time t~"' C(".r.:r ~.~.,: I ·~~·: er:u~tl.:..:: c1f the or ir1ion t!.;_t, if sl.e r<>;..a~r.~; in Jer:-t··: <""wd rd.t.crr::-~t~. t1) at'..0nd r.r1r·.d.l ch · r-et. .-,1 OL the i .. ·: ~t! ,·1 t :.:. t J~~~1t~ prol J r rr ~J ~~i:l 1 ;- i.; c ... f.~•.t:·r d ~ :_;~n_:~ :_c;~l!!~:.? . Yours 242 ' ... CASE 120 NAME : ______ llnTE OF BIR'l'H : __ 00/)5 HISTORY _____________________~------------------- 6_2_ _ _ __ PLACE OF BIRTH Maternity Jersey Hoep~t l, H0?-1E ADDRESS: RELIGION : __~R_o_m_•_n_C_•_t_h_ol_1_·c___________ RE.111 SOH FOR BAPTlS~D : YES/~~---------- _..;.._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ n"P.TICLE • _ _ __ RE : _ _l'lother in__;_ prison \:11\ r:o SCHOOLS : ~~D~·~~T~E~----------------~ SC~H~O~u~·L~-------------- EM?LOYNENT : DATE El.,PLOYE ER MO'mER F.aTF.3R - ~mployer ' .... J.l i- Tu\CE OP :SIR~ 247, 248, 6 PLAOE!'lliNT Admitted to Haut de la Garenne . 120 - Summer h lidays - heme . - hoi'Jle. 26 .1 0 . 73 - 5.11 . 73 - home. 15 • 2 • 7 4 - . 4 • . • 14 - h: CU! . 5 . 4 . 74 - -Easter h~liday . 19. 7 . 74 -Summer ho1idays . 2. 9. 74 24 . 5 . 74 - ' . 6 • 74 - hme • 1. 8.74- 16. 8. 74 - La 30. 8. 74 home . 25 . 7 . 75 to Haut de la Garennc . \ .~.({.,. Scho ol P~eforcnce . Re-admitted t o La Preference . ..... 2 ' C0/35 ~E 6 H ::ME : _ _ _ _.l: OF 'E I RT}-, : HO~ E ---'---~·-- 60 PJ,ACE OF BIRT.H_ _J_e _rs_e..:..y_ _ __ ADDRESS : ____ __________ ______~- REI.I GION : _ _ _ _R_.c_._ _ _ _ __ RF.,~.S ON BAPTISED : YES/NO______________ F'OR CARE : ___u_n_su_~_·t_a_b_le_h_o_m_e_c_o_n_d~i_h_·o_n_s_·- - - - !\RTI CLE SCHOOLS : B2(K) SCHOOL EMPLOYMEUT : ENPLOYER Di\TE FiiTHER PkRENTS : HOTH'ER liame Date & PlRbe :>f Birth ,; ..lddress i1' .iiff erent from chilo Employer 'contact Tel . No . SI BLlllGS : 1L~1E DATE .Aid) PLACE OF .BD'<:'.i'H 120, 247, 248 1 r : DATE 1 . 8. 75 Admi • ted to H~ ut de le ~arenne . <1 . 6 . 73 20 . 7 . 73 - 10 . 9. 73 5 . 11 . 73- home . 26. 10. 7J 15. 2 . 7t 24. 5. 74 Summe r holidays - ho"e ~ 19 . 12 . 73 - 6 . 1 . 74 - home . 24. 2 . 74 - home . 5 . 4 . 71. - 21 . 4 . 74 - Easter holiday 2 . 6. 74 - home . 19.7 . 74 - 6 . 9 . 74 - Summer ho1idays 1. 6 . 74 - ~ 6 . 6 . 74 - La Prefmrence . 2· . 1. ·s 30. 8 . 74 - Returned he~ . Admi tted to Haut de la Gnrenne . 3 120 20 120 CLINICAL NOTES Record of illnesses and treatment ; results of special examinations. including ophthalmic .and dental : and notes on medical mspections. lmmunisations to be noted on front page. M.O's Date initials ····~···~····~·····~-~~ .... ~:::':"':':':'0'''''''"'''''" "''''''''''" ..... . ... .. ..rJI.I..~ ~ ~.~~~.~ ~ r~~~................ . .•..':+: .... 1....'*:~~ -~ =. ~·.1~ ... ... ... ... ......... ... .. r~~......~~- .. ~.~.. ~~...~.~~~.~..... t..~.~.~.... ... ••• '" '" ••• ~ ... ~7:.S.:]f,?,,,,,,,,,,.,,.,,,,.,,,,.., .,,.,.,,,., ,.,,..,,,,..,,,..,.,,,. ,,.,,.,,,.,.,,.,.,,, .. . . .:-. . . .... . .:'it~~+~ ... ~ ... !.'.!!! . .,. ..•.~ ••. ~..~ .. ~.•.. ::: .. . . .. .": .. .. ..~--.. .. ..............~·. .. ................ ... .............. .................. ....... .. .... ..... ..... .. ... ......... . \1 .'5 :.1!r.. .~~LL-.~c~ ...... .l9.~.... ~~.:P.: ~.:-:t.~...:.~~.~. ''' '" odo "o ~..?:~ ..4\~~ .......~ .. ~ ....~ ........................................... . ~:.~:]f? .~..... ..~ ...... P.9.!;~ ....~ ..........................~ ...~ ..~..........~.... . j' ~'"""" .. . .l.... ·; · ...: .. ~~ ....4~~~-~:·~;.::~ ...~ ..~--~..~ ~.~ ...M& .I./fl.... .. . .. ............... ( ............... &.... .. .. .. .. .. . . ... ~~ .!.~.~... . ................... .. .. . ,. ~· : .. :.. ·j· ·:;:. .. "l·4~ ... ,Jf ~.~~....(......... . .. .':-:H~.~.. L.. ... ......... .... .~ ..... .. ....1 ..1............~ .............................................................................. ......... ... 9.:.~: l7. . ·~.:J ... -~-1:-~ .. -fk~ :r..~...~ ..~..~...~.~a~ ...... · .......... ·;~ ·:~ ~·;~.. ~~·~·. ·=·~;.:.· "4j :.... "'" '\f."'"~"'ih':" ......................... "UtE~ .. . .. ···········' ..~.~ ............................................... +....................................... ············ . tJ6 . • ~I . . .. . .\\·. ~~:n: ·· 1'· ·~ ···· ~ :..~ . 1: .. 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' ""'" ' '""""'""'"''' ........... . ·- (':'3:17 .. ~... .~....~.... r.~~~.- :'ir. ~..~ ... ~.~ .. ~ ..Q.g, t;Q~ . ....~......... ·:~:;;. ·"~~···li.>·······=. ....:~·: . ·rw·~~·: .......... :...............................,~·: .. . · ... -,:_,·~ ; ._,............~ .. ~~....fit.: ..............................~.:,·: t;w·f'A;.~..:·p........ ... tiJ'.. e......... . .........~~.............J:.J:............ ........ .......................................)... .. .. .. . .. .......... ;u:.,.::n. ... ... ... ... ~.. ~ .:-: ...~~~ - .. ~:-:t: ...--:.~~fl-~... ~.~ .. ~.,·~··· .... .... . ~- ... :t: ....~ .. .~...W.<.M.«.. ...-=.... ~.. »........ ...~~ ..:-:;....... . . ··:········· . .............. ... . . .... . . ... s .. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,1 ,n, -~~ .. ~~(,s~r.-~·: . t:::.~~~·\;:: ...... ...... . ... . . .... ... Li3. ... ... .. .. .. .......... .......... t:':t:". ................... . ... .. .. .. .. ... . . .. .. .. .. .. .... .. .·' .... .. . ........... ·~~4. .. ~ .. ~.. :...................................,_.............................. .. ...... . .:s.:'JJ. .JMI:o:'!~.e; - ~ ~ 7-~~.:.f:?..":'::'. ~~ ..~ ..~............. .. ~.-:: ~ ~ ~ ~ +:~.::.~ ~ ~ . <.i:~n.. -r~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~. ''"'"}'f~ ~'hr. O:•• ......... • ~~l:JJ ... ~ ~ .. ...J. , 21 120 CLINICAL NOTES Record of lllaessu and treatment ; results of special examinations, including ophthalmic and dental ; and notes oa medical inspections. lmmunlsations to be noted on front page. Date t........:\!7·:?1 ...................... ~--~·~····~. S.~ ~..... ~............ ~...................................................... ........... . ...• ;o•• •.•..••• • : .... .. .~~\:.~ .7.? .-~1·. )4.M.:.:'l'.f' .......~·: ............. ................... ·.·... ... .. ... .. .. .. ........, .1~--'~:JJ .~.o..B .. . . ........ ::...~ ...~~ .. ~..... ..........~.J.. ...~.. -~= ~~J~.: -~~ - ~ ..~~.. ~1!. ..~":'. ~.:-:-:-..~ ..~ , ... 1':'":':.. :.. ~~ .. ~. ,............. -c,.~ . .. . . ..... : . ............ );tV;~ :~.~::-:-:~ .:..... Jli...~~.~~...L~:......':!C:..................> ·lltf.... · ............ . . , ................. ...... .. ... ;·· ... . Lt:t:7.f'... .. .. ......,..~.i)j[',~· . ..'7/-:.i;)~~~- ~·~ ... .......... . ·r~·:·· ;;~- · · ·· ··4 ,:·;:]'~::· · ····· ~····;.;.:..·· · ·· ~· ·······~···· ·· ~ · ....... ~{S:'f:t~Jlt.·~ ...d; .....;f;-..~ ..~..../z.::t~ . . .... . . .. ... .. .. ... .. ............. ~.... ' ... :;;. 1" t:::J:~~Itlbj f. ........... 'f.:.::/ A.~......... ........ .. ~ ...... . .... ....~..~ ... ,. . ....... f................ .....'c;·.GJ..Y'!!: .............~ ................. ~ .... .. i . .,q.,.!!'.~. :':~ .....~....~!'.~ .... .~ ...~. :?....~~.. :-:7... ~~- . .. . .... ... . ~....~... ::t:t.. ,..-:-:.. ~....~~ , .-. .................... .................. ............ -~=-~:.~ ~~ .... ~ ... f.Ctr;\h .. ~... ~~..~'!}............................................................. . ............ ~1.: .~:~ ~4-· -~. !1-do.k ....~..... ....~~.:.~:.?.~ : .................................... . ~\':. ~~... ~j~ .. -~~ '7-r·· ....... ~ ..~~; ................................ . :.W.f:l~. 'l" ....... :"i .. ,..~.. ";;i. ~~: ... '0.. ..... 'jf:: ................ ~ ~.. ~~·: ..u.;:; ·; ........... . ;:.J:.'lt~ f ~ ·;;·~..... ·n::' ··: .. · <-:~·:.:.:;.~- .......... ·................ · .. ·.. ··.. .. · ·~· ~r::::. ............................''Lf\ .. ·(:f.·.;.:-~ · ~.·:&;;. ... ......... . .. ... .. . =·. . . . . . . . . . . . . ·. . . ·. · . ... ... ... ... d .. ~............................................................ ::~:1/- ......~..... .. .... . ,....... . i.::·i~ :::iV;.i: :~ : :~::::: :~:: ::~:i:-:11: : : : :::: : : : : : : : : ::::: : :::::::: : : ............ e f f fa+ I f f + f + ... ······ ... ········································ ······································· ····························· • + + + * f +i .. + f + + I I • I I . o o I+ • of o I I I o o o o • 1 + + I o • o 10 il e +I 1 1 o + 1 e I 1 + f' o + f o + 1 1 o • a • • f o 1 • e 1 ++I++ 1 f f I++ + I f f t t t 0 1 f +e +. If f f +e I+ + I ..······ ..................................................... ........................................... .............. ............ ~ + ++I 'f f J 6 I I I I I I I o I I It t . Ill • t f fIll 0. • Ill Ill Ill Ill • . Ill Ill Ill • Ill I l l . t Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill t I l l Ill 111 Ill Ill 111 • Ill .. Ill Ill Ill Ill 111 Ill Ill Ill 111 Ill"" 111 Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill . . . . Ill 111 Ill Ill Ill t I l l ., I Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill I ••• •• ""'"'"' • • ••••••••••••••4••••·••••••••••••••• • ••• • ••••• • ••• • •t ••••••T•••••••••••••••••••••~•·••••""''"'6 111 Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill Ill 111111 .- 111 .............................................................................................................................. ", . . . ........................................................................., .. ....... ............. .. ········ .......... . ·~··· ..................................................................... .............................................. ······· · ·········· · ·········· ·· ········· · ···· ····· ·············· · ······ ·· ·· · · ·· ··· ~ ··· · ········ ....... , ········· . II>C4 - •••••• . . . . • ••• •• . ::--- - ......._ - '~~~ •• •••••• • • •••••••••••••••••••·•·• • ••••••• •• • •• ••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••a•• • ••••• • •••• - ___ __________ _____ - • • •r• ••• • ...........""-- ~ . . , . . . . . 1'' '" .. "'"'"' . ~ 111 I++ I f I .....•., ............................................................ .............................................. ......... ........... ....................... ............................ ............................................... .... .... ... ........ ...................................................................................................... ... ····· .. . •••••••• ············ ... ... ........ ,..... ··· ··· f ~ ...... ... f For turth~ r not~s u~~· Continuation C rtl 23 MEMORANDUM From :- To:C. A• Smith E.sq . , Children ' s Officer J. T oms on ~eq. , Sup~ rintendent Dote 31st July, 1 9';'9 120 re: 120 eventually did agree to be examined by Dr . " · Taylor . He wae not undul y worried about her condition and weight loae. He said tr~t there was no known medical condition that coul d cauae her to cough up blood and also lose it in her uri ne . He sounded her c~eet a ~rl a ur ine ea= ple was take n. A record is to be ke pt of her vei;rht . , her f iancee, has obta ined the lease of a flat . He wants to li\·e vi th 120 for a year before conteoplating marri ...:· . He has been told that permiss i on would almos t certainly be denied . Ro•··ever , we are rnoviM i nt o a difficul t area . The young man seems genuinely f ond of 120 . He has a steady j ob and he seems reasonab ly inte llirent. 120 has now • ally out- grown Haut de la Garenne and it is very difficult for us to c ontain her when ehe has this et9ady r e l ati onshi p with an adult ~ l d . Perha :):J thP t ime has come f or P.ither voureel f , or or ':>oth of you , to hl'lve an interview with . ~o ,·ed Once he has problems . Do have 120 Skinner , into '"lis f l at I can f oresee all aorta of ~ou t~ ink char~d o ~ ~~ r. coul d be named as the Fit Person to ? !! ~~ J . Thomson Superintendent 30 MEMORANDUM To:From :- J . H. Thomson , Esq ., A. J . Skinner , Esq . , Senior Child Care Officer. C iJdren ' s Of~ice . Superintendent , Haut de la Garenne . Date 25th July , 1978 Re · 7 120 120 h reference to your recent memorandum regardinp; medical condition , I am ala1~ed that 120 refuses to consult a doctor reg;ardine the bloo passed in her ur::..r.e . Have you made enquiries with the doctor as to the likely CA.'lse o:' this discharp;e and ns to the nossible ser1cusness of the condition? Please contact me to discuss . • Ser.ior Child Care Officer 31 r ME M ORANDU M To:- From:- C • A. f-.....!.. o;h E!'lq . , Chil~~en ' a o~ficrr J . Thomson ~q . , S1.1p9rintende nt For thesttenti on of A. J . Skinner Esq . , Seni or Chi l d Care 0ffic~ r Date re : 4th Aueust . 1cne 120 In c onversa tion wi th W . P . S~t . Bond the fo l l owing interesting w· ict I w o~ ld like checke d and verified :- ~oir. t e ~erred ... As 120 is ':"-:- ... ~a s •bjec t of a Pit Person nr ~er, t !': e Education Co::;mittee an~ i-: s agents actir147 "in l oco parentill" are in e xac tly the saoe · c.si t:C o:1 'le ~r.y other ')8.rer.t or guardian who re -oorte a V?ung person ~:ssi~g ;r o~ iro~ r care . I r the case of a gi r l over sixteen yea rs of age , there cAn he ro cr.ar~e of harbourinlo" or removin.· fr o~ the care of a ':'1 t Pers:>:1 . ::-. ~"·'-.ct , t~.e a iLatlon woul d be very simila r to t t:a t of a -ir l ove r 16yrs . w ~ o l eft he r naren t e a ~d refused to re t . rn. The ~re nt s cannot force her to re tur n , h~ t ttey can re fus e to ~ive -oermi e ai on t~ live with neraons nf w~c- ·~ey 1o :1ot a pprove . Normally , 1 these circumshnces , tt:e Ohildre r. ' e Offi~e becomes involved and plac~a ihe g1rl inn ne1 t ral er.virono~nt , i . e . "in c~ re-. However, 120 ie alr eac in care !!! Cver to t rP legal ea~l es !!!! ! J. Su P. S . It woild, of course , sti ll be ?QSs i~ le t o make of a Fit Person ~r ~ er- ~~· • would ~r~ear for the 120 the s ubjec t !! 32 MEMORANDUM To:- C. A . :-1 t!l Eeq . , From:- Childre n ' s 0' ficer Sup4"rin•.e :-:dent Dote re: let August , 19-q 120 to my recent oemo , we seem to be ~eing over~aken did not return on Friday ni~t ~fter goi~ o·.1t with . She phoned '.1'"' on Saturday o+'f ~ rilll! to return , ~ut sc'f.ing romiaaion f roo any puniah~ent . t, quite rightly refused to negotia te and said the normal ~na lty o~ de t ention would almost cert' inly foll ow . has also oho~ed, 120 has still not returned . c laiming know her whereabouts , but this i a almost certa inly '.lntrue, Anr\ l"a.v have to be charged before ~e a tope aiding and abe·tin~ 120 . ~~r ther by events . J . Tho"1Son r.. 8 q . , 120 The whole s ituation is becoming very di!'ficul ·· . oay de~ lare 120 1 . J . I . and repeated doeee of ietention will become irreleva nt a nd co'.lr.ter- prod'.lctive . As there 1s l i t~. le likelihood of her e-, i ever being allowed t o li ve togethar witr. the Co-.rittee's bl eaai:1g , is there a case for a "de fac t o" diechar~ to tr.'! c/o }>or ')J'l rent1 '.l.."lder r.'lntinued l u"8rvis1on??? ~~ J . Tho~e...,n 3. eri nten 33 MEMORANDUM To :- From:- A. J. Skinner Esq ., ~enior Child C:a r e Offic•"r For the attention o~ v , pi:. f8s Horn , C. C. • . 7 .8 .197':3 Date 120 re: Per urine teat ThO'"':SOn .sq • , Suo<> ri n:er-l.en t ~roved ne~-a ti ve . 120 regular mont l 1 P.X~diti~r.s qr e pl ayinr ~avo c with regulating her ~i rt h pill. Althougl: s}&s is over 16yrs. old , we h•·ve continued to s upervise its iss ue , but , tel ls ~e that the op€ration is comuletely oointless when 120 runs off fo r several ria ·s an 1 uooet s the F:equence . ' - '~ ?e-,nps tr.e time has h -self . c~me fo r 120 t~ as euoe ~8S ?oneihilit y for ~ J:~ Super intendent 29 ' - ~. ME M ORANDUM From:A. I . 5kinn!2r , •<-roiur Child CcHt:. Off..c• r . (hil l ! f ' f l 1S o:firP . r r 1 n t t- n -~ ~ r. t . •I au L d~ la be r> c_ L I Date 120 Tr'nPk you •or y.;ur m•·n:J .Jf t1t:1 ~ugust 197H , ;:;ddreSSE'd tc th• C.h 1 lr n ' s Ot fit·f 1 , .:r. ·.·.'·,;i.rh y:Jt.; ralSt a nu:nb~:;r of 1 nt •·rcsting pu1·1ts cf :·J • T 1r "' l t::: van t cJ :- t. :i ,. l , s c f L .J .·: d r, I tJ c I i '! v '~ , [ o mmo n Ld h . , n cl Ar t i c l ~ A3 ~ n j '3-1 ot r .,, L'•ildren C..Jr-ar·; 1 ' Lr:L·. , 1 Jh~ . .:.s [nmrnon I J ',·' l hdl a pPrSon of tl••• dc;t.. o·- sixcc ., y~-'.Jrs ··-'u h,l!:. fou n d 'c:rselt :.;Jit:,IJ!e .JCCO~Hr.odati::Jn . is lr-1.Lr•g :.1 'mer=;.:. l't.- ' H•d 1~ r.;Pll s~.;r;porting . Cd i HIOt. .1•· :orr•'ci tO rt:turn ~0 t'•p C'Cl!' :J'0 r_,art=rJtS Ul' folt lU.y fpccived :nto our cn:-e . ll n·.-.•·vPr , 1:' t>·,_;t oerscn ,ioes 11ut fulfil th~sP cond;~ ons lth-'n he or sl L.: !s f'lCt l'••1s J--lJL•r.te..: c . ~ . ::f hr'r l1fe btylt? _:;, 'mf"•orFJl th~>n .~P cJ:• rrnpo~·ered tu nt• rv-:::m tl·raun· t'1t t< .• ya: ~curt (tCJk_ng of cJ r i t Person Crdt.n ::iirr1larly if r•t• nr sh•· t• corm: l t.n~m::~l l:.abil.:v to ·1 P;:t r:ish , thon t·1 Lo• ·tJtJ!r~ of" that f- :1.:.nt or •.< ' •SJ • 0 u J I d ' U t•. l t i C l C: 8 ) ( 1 : and ~, I' l.i L lt: 8 4 { j ~~ 7 t 'lr- ( 1 1 Jl 1 '1 ' .J t • r 5 ~ y L a1~ , ·ot.:. , ere .·.::.Jul-j ~~-~~m" t'••d the [ti..Jcatior, Committee .·.~u.:.: havr rro rH..r• powers or r:grts t'an th·! p.JrLnt o: ~he child \•:u:..ld huvP. had if a Pu·.-,:al flights Orrlc r h a d ··ol ··een 11:al.le , drrrJ l'·u~. "'Cr.ld Le S..J'bjec t to th!.: Common !_;:::,., uuot d e~Love, qoverning t'lL conditions ur11J•·r •,hlr ·,;; _:.,..tt>,;>n y•Ar ol•: rn1g>,t l"'oV!.': tl1·· en• of hi::, or her f'dJvnts 'Hr·l livr- 1rr Jn :tr"u:J"rvlS"'~ settino . I i =l Ho\·J"cov:::r , c lo~~.. r ,,,·iw"t_rnr of t!IP Ia,.... r•vPa l s thct. a Pi'llC"t~.!. ~Lg-cs CtC•:::: may contHir pow~r~ , ,,, trwr ::.t bt. by ccrsLious design o::- ro:Jt'l~r ~ncffic1•n: :.:r.Jf:ing of La·:.' 1 ~i~t !--:Xl'_,_-.1 t• norrrJl dutit's , rights a n d po.,:·rs ;:~ 1 p r nt -!11 •i:'o ~lo& :v nc~rcxi~1l 1.""•: po·..,·rs of "'l Lommitl.c.'ll Drrler (Allie>' 31' . for --:,IC'plo-• , thr P.-u ntal Rights LrrJcr 5tJtes t ~l ~ --c t *"• •! r t; J • =, t o P : . . . r tne dc.:ction of df l O.:·rJ1 r {i . E . t·.rJf~nt~/ y~(1rs of ag1- : · 'l:Jt r<"v..,vc-d. ! i d l"' to 'l•aint;ti'l th<> clr1 J•' " - Art i :::lr 5C(2l l2 1 • T";lS is 3n ot.liq 1L i _harly t:XC(·t.ds the duly nf '1 norr.:al J:.'drLnt . ,... o r.'tti ~ 1 t ~ t~ , " sl all be on ~1hich ,il:,,o '"it:., rF'c::-oru•· to 1 =:-:;gr,-,_"' t1·.t. of your memorancum , I musl correct t•re st.d >·ment rr,arJe ! v ,\':Jm"n P::J.:.~c 'S rge:1nt Dond tra t there is no >"Cui val• nt :in the P CiS 5 i 5 t .- 0 r HH: U C E' S ,: C hi l r:J I f) :,; II CJ''fl t hi '5 r a r ;q !' <; p "- J ~ ;:.' - i "~ t C.. t .Jf1 a1,ay ; or ,!:,1 ha:-lOLJl~ r,r COIIC'~nl:, I ct'-iltJ tCt \•,~10~ tl">lS paragrac'·, applic>S whO 'las run .J~;ay , or rr• v='1ts h1:'1 ··rorr rt:;turn:.ng Lo ':.•e pl.'3cP from which he ~~s run aw21 ; ''•' sh 27 r Here- 1t:<:i~> Lhvrr is 2n .:.nJic..,t.~cn t1·d for t'c curr,tlor li:gf-•tS Ord!..r , l•,-· l dtJCdtio n Co•mn: ttt-P is wn;JOt.e~sc! to cec:r!r u• th~ :J• r.G. ~1;. F":t to c:ucr un l~rd.-r - pu·~.· :s .... ~_::h . 1~ 1n Pt!rson 8r' · :c-!r r>>·t••••rl ;.;ntj tl1iJ1. rwt· lll 1'.!5 reacncd t'l ')C'I ,., Pt·Isnr, C-::JPt t'lt~ll . C" ,., :tn·>· :re pl:~ct:rn• nl lh· Cc!~t.. ::.• ...: fit L·.• rt.et.., blrtt rld/ . chsety •H'r'H:><;!"'c'1tes l't: f.t to i3 l argt~ dtflrt>.! pnc..J~r:::r, t'H: .,nc; duties dS t'lOSl' o(J J itainPr~ ir· :.Itic.l£• t>-c Pdr•rd,d Pig-·t:- Dl·der ,;·'-•"r•::s :::"' EuucaliO II [onullil:.L" .-. .:.t:. Parcnti3l 0f u:.or t~c 31 ot the Lt.ilrht.'ll (Jcrs..!.i :·EirrtllL" , :Ju\•,'('1~ ::JfT\C I .:J.-• , 1 CJrrr~ )t, 120 'l:J:Jr ~ 1 1.is cl.·Jr i fi ·s tht.: ~i·. u<:ltlor· regarding and t 1 H~ Julies pn ... crs trat ti-t· E.L!uca t ion Comf'l'litt':?'3 'lJ\t' 1,1tr regard to t'115 ,•O,J'19 lac!~; . :ntelPIC't t • t!'• .JI,'S in tloe fullo.-.:nq rn 120 ••rotitlPi . iJ,j..-,J ~l·rn.i r HJly ernpo.·:ered , to in::.1st t 11,..J ! t m.. !n :n suo· ~Jl;,, ... ~ -:":ot CJ~ 1r1~c co11sirler sui tablP for t1pr ree·..!~ ~·.1 ir:' dt t'·~· prc''>'"c tlnt . ldl )' ly uy default c~f .sppl lfli.a":::> r·rsourcPs . is .:-Ju~ :c 1.1 LJrf_nn1 . ,Jr-~ ':.• ( :! l I i 5 1 r d! , c, r n r rj s , ·.· E -= ~ ,~ , r, 1 • · • ~ ·• t ~ .:;nd nturn her tc H::lut 1c }, ,o,ro=o-,r• I }1 i,. !)i)l:-IJ:lUTCd tJy r...., ~r '~ "" t•fc •·r;,un fOr':1• nr' ~s !LJI ~ng k t ;., e P crl ; L " t~e SpPnt r~Lr:iod t (J fi 11 c! 'or , hI'~ r t!..... :-un ' , l i-lhl•· to rno• ·· utian si thif' A re-i• !_ .. 5.1 r F.) 120 f :. n :-: s • r:: • l :' ' J : t -3 L l L a c co mmc d d t i r; n J n L1 c '11 :J l c J "'1•_ r t . .-. r- i c- ' 1 r"JSCI"c:,l: r-:c: d • x1::.tance , i t th(';n hL'Larn.s cJ qt..0:::on .:l~ to -·-,,.t,•,~r [nnrr.I.JI [.,,. ··:- ·:J::.!.:: CJ·: :'c. ['l~lril!• (JersE'y) La"' • I'JG'i . ~usp""ct tt-..J~ J t t·.'Ciuld . lln.~r ., .. T . if -.,,.. •:i·! r'Ct - ..... • t'-Psr :Jre- concltions , t.l•c11 1 rc r.G' thin!-: I Fi.t P, ~St,ll Dnlt 1 ··.''l J.•! I c:;!l,l~ LO !::·"· .G..J9'1t . "!S soulr consid»r Lhat ft rti.clt 84 c:· tf-c; [ i •.r·.:l1 (J,•r':>(:y\ L.:J':. , 19::.'] , ~>nJ ' ; err.po;·.er the Edur~JtiC'n (C"mmilt~e to r·-,-:·...:,-.~~.. t~ Po!_ •· tfJ r~tttr~ f'·~r lr ~u' ... plac:err.cnt .JS t . . . f.'! rLII,.. "1P!" rte.~ ~:iiry . "'c .·. - cn~l·!··!" 'J ~• ·~r • I '• .J l>· :o' ..J I ... ,. lhe lr-.. c.;al oosi tion ::..u:!:Ou'HJi•·•; of cours~ seck corfirm~tion or t~is l,;.~lJtllf:ldris,·s I I. .. j ... 1: 1 S£:S . w~:l [ m~:ll 0 ffict~s 120 . -u, io:Jr Child :::arL Offj._: .. r 28 Hr. A, J. S kinn r , Senior Child C'lr• Qffic r , c . c , Haut dP le Gar •on I C. A. Smith, Children' s Offic r r. I 9th August, 1978 R ·: Advis~d . rlaut •l by her int mntion of t ' 120 la Garonne , that 120 hac aignifiPd ,~c ning ~n . AoparPntly having ab5con · J last nvening, she had t~l~phonPd t oday saying that sh e wis hed t o li v at ho~ • H~d been told that noth ing could ba discussed or d~cidnd unt il oh• r turn.d to Hcut de la Gare nnc . pinion at Haut c la Gar no r ia that nothing ~ill be served by placing in a dctrntion room if ond who n shn r ~ turn s . They bcli nvc sha might bo tried at hom~ , if only to br Aa k thP gPneral pa tt"rn of absconding . I em i nclin ~d to agr·" , but am pr.pa r od to do nothing until ah~ r e turns to Haut de la Gar<>nne . 120 120 t eLphon d n! at approximately 4 , 00 p . m. Said she t~a nted to r emain at home , as she do·~ not like Heut de la GarPnne . Med ~ it quit o clear to her that until she r ~ turns to Haut d~ la Gore nnc , no decisions will be mnde ro: lt rnetiva plac •me nt s . Suggested sh ~ r e turn there within the next hour and I ould edvis" h r by friday afte rnoon if she could spe nd a period at hom~ on trial . Point~d out tha t a ny period e t home would bD conditional on her keeping out of troublr , Told her that if ehe r e turned to Heut de la Garenne within en hour, sh e would not b placed in det e ntion . She agreed to do thic . 120 Advis od Hout d ~l G~r on~ of thi s d\~~ uosion and authorised t umporary trial ot hom .v . c , f , Friday evening, on condition that viour is aetisfactory in thr M~antim~ . 120 not to be told this until rrld y afternoon . 26 MEMORANDUM From :- To :- C.A. Smith Eaq . , Childrena Dffi ~ er J. ThoCI8on Eaq . , Superintende nt Dote re : 21st A.pr.il, 1977 120 This is to confirm my verbal report that 120 at long laet, started b~ r peri od on Tuesday 19th April. This f ollowed an entertaining incident on Monday evening, 18th April. After ng to ue on Monday morning and being placed in detention, 120 a sked to go to the toil et in the evening and then ouccPoded in eluding tvo young members of staff and vent outside the main buil ding. When I vas summonsed, she took to her heels down the potato fie l d wearing only her dressing gown , ni ghtdreee and bare feet ! ! I pursued her and my speed over a 25yde . stretch ia believed to have rePched 8m . p.h. 1 ~ 120 waa rapidly disa ·pearing 7 into the distance vhen who comes to aee us a lot when y , came to the rescue and succeeded in catching up with her. 120 was dul y returned to detention and I c ~ oled down about 2 ter! ! Some of the behaviour of 120 and her rriend is movin& into the realma of &arce. e two, 120 ie still t he mora human and possibl y t he moat l ikeable , but she so more stupid and easi l y infl uenced . J, Tho?agn 25 ·. . .. , MEMORAND UM I ' . lf<>:- fr<>nn :- ......__ --.. . R. Davenport, , Child Care Of ficer . Hr. A. J. Skinner, Senior Child Core Officer. Oote .....?.~.~~...q.~.~-~~-~-~ .t ... ~..9.1!. ..... Re: / 120, 136 .. ... · ·. As Duty Weekend Offi cer , I was r e qu ested to attend Poli ce Headquart ers on Sa turday, 22nd October 1977, at 5.00 p . m. , to witness a statement to be made by 120 136 wa s not fit to ma ke a sta t eme nt, owi ng to quite severe i n toxicat ion, and s he was at this time in tho Police cells. ~ 120, 136 had left Haut de la Garenne a ft er l unch on Saturday , and had travelled into town, where they had visited , afte~ meeting , 120, 136 a man a ged si x ty- five years, living in . had app a r ently visited this man at his home on three or four occasions previously, but it was first visit. 120 This man hod ' e ntertained' a ll three girls in his home, and plied them wi th 136 ultimate ly, and after abou t three or four l arge me asures o f g i~ , alcohol . beca~e quite intoxicated . consumed less and we r e quite capable . 120 a nd Whil st at this man ' s hous e , he allegedly exposed himself, and both at different t imes masturbated him , a lthough not to cli max . 136 120 was approached by this ma n, who tried t o fondl e her, but she quickly told f . . • off , and he did not pursue ~atters with her. Th e old man in ques t ion (the Police a re pursuing allegations against him) , it see ms likely, has also been involved with other t eenage girls , and the names of ( A.D.) and (II.D.L.G . ) have also been mentioned • 136 i s also al l eged to have 't ouched up' ond between t he legs , but from out side their clo thing. I '' on the breasts , "' All three girls th en left this man ' s house, and ptteeeded into town , attracting much attention as 136 had to be physically supported by the other two, due to he r state of intoxica tion. It was whilst they we re in town, and because of the shouting and an t ics of 136 , that the Police apprehended t hem, a nd th erefore that this information has 120, 136 come t o l ight . Only were apprehend ed at this time , as had run away upon sight of the Police. 120 was most co-operative and well i n control of her faculties , so she wa s to Hau t de la Garcnne by W.Pc. Screen and myself, ~fter completion o f her statement, .. \ ·. -- It wao dec ided tha t 136 should remain i n to wait and sec i f she wae sober enough to make Haut de lu Gnre nnc . At 10. 00 p.m ., however, it was still ' blotto' and that a statement nt thi s t hat she was in too bad .1 condition to transfer a lready vomi ted i n her cell , a nd w.Jo being inos t the Police cell until 10. 00 p . m. .. a stat ement and then return to 136 was more than evide nt th.Jt time was out of thv question, and t o Haut de lo Garonne. She hod abusive . Aftor/ •• • ••• 67 - - 2 - Aft e r connultation between and the Police, it was decided that sh e should rem~in in her cell overnight , and that a statement wo uld b e taken the ne x t morning and s he would t hen be re t urned to Haut de la Gare nne. I, accompanied by W.Pc. Screen, visited the home of , who had be e n a l lo wed home on weekend privilege, in order that she might be taken to Police Headquarters to make her s t a te men t and thereafter be returned to Ha ut do la Ga renne , becaus e of her breach of privilege . However , we were not able to fin d anyone a t home a t the time ( a r ound 0 . 00 p . m.). I believe the Pol ice ( or Hdut de la Ga renne ( ?) called again, findi ng thi s t ime, and too k her bac k to Haut de la Ga re nne . at this time, al l eged she had been in all the time, and must have ' mi s sed ' my visit with the Policewoman. As f ar as I am c oncerned, no - o ne ~a s at ho me , a nd t her e must now be s erious guestion marks over f utu r e s t a y 1nq vi s its was appa r e ntly mos t unco - o pera tive, and I g a ther re fu ~e d to ma ke a sta t emen t . On the following morning (Sunday) , I spen t almost four hours at Police He a dquarters wi th , who eventual l y made a statement regardi ng the 136 pre vious day ' s activities . Her statement agreed with the one given by 120 136 was far from co-ope r a t iv e with eit her myself or t he Pol i c e. 1 then r eturned her to Haut de l a Garenne, once again with W. Pc. Scree n . Doub tl ess, full Police r eports on this incident will be may be tha t 136 will be charge d. sub ~ i tted , and it Child Care Officer ,, · c. c • .tHau t de la Garenne file e 136 file 120 68 MEMORANDUM To :- C. A. From :- ~~it~ ~~q. , .]l.ll1r·f>n 1 !! f' Ifi e r ~·or t he n t :e· t10:1 of ~. r~ . · ·· Tf1 WOI1 r. .r . ~,.~·:.~·lt!t? r: h.:> t Dote 120, 136 re : 23 r d Cctob·' r, 1977 I un(\erstan.i thnt >lr . D,venport i s &.wlire of the situation and is ::3" b · it-.inr a full rt!oort of t he events of Saturday 22nd ,lc tober corwernin the obove three t;i rls • 136 wss ke!lt overnieht at :-'tlll ln e. drunken stu!>Q r w·!! brO)li•h t boc': in . xtn•,••·l :.: uncl'-on·· r · tiv<: w::.t!"l tl.e •. P ~> "'~ 120 .·~t..rr.e·' :nllcL w· ,· .. ·v.n · ··iven Vl V l d ·' 1 ~ ·· t ,r 11' • Police P.eadquartera b '3cause at 10 .50 in Ue e vening • a sullen mood and wsa Police . lh·r.t · earli..-r in tJte ev..:>nin"' aobPr r:; ·rfl. ohic ' t!t!. ll~ o" the events to or. at l:ou..,e ". 136 • ..~.., ..... / . ~I I \ 69 MEMORANDUM To :- From :- C • A• Sai th Eaq . , Children's J • 'l'boaaon . .q. , Suoe:>t"ltondent O!fio ~ r Date . re: 120 / It 1a JlY intenti on to pu.niah both theae eirla aotot ,.,. .. .,rely !"or th,-,ir n.cer.t -:~~&-: :. !uc t .ru-1 abdc ndl.ng . for a l on« time I ha ve been convinced that the u.zi&ua 48 ho -r stretch at one time i n de tention was inadequate tor thia t:1pe of 11-rl . ~e~ d<:> it "fttandiu.e or: the!.r ho:1!e . • ; therefor~ pro - 1 1e thltt 120 ~ •nd. when &be returna) e}ta ll arend &t leaat aeve n ,aye in d ~tention , with proper :-e rd f or r~«UU~ r ex,rciue nd freab air . !ha regulation. proTide tor up to fourteen d~. ye detontion in apecial a1rcullatanoee . ia nes rl 1 17yra . old and 120 ia nearly 16yre. old . ia here by ohoice. She 1a ab,yaaall7 laay, . .xually a berrnnt toward a you n.~ r 'boys . She needa a salutary leaaon which uy drin h• r to the conclusion t ha t bet future u .. at hc:.e. rith her fa~ly . She ie old enough t o be hel d in lecal cuet o4y either ~t ~o lice .· . ~ . or at ;..a Kore ?rison . She ie a leo ol d noU«b f or Bora tal trai.rt.ng . 120 Ae f or , we ba•e eutfered ber &ooda , her ~i aruptive and deviant beh !or well O"f'er a year . Ve have ahown great patience and f orboarance. She ia the priae ~over in all r ...le abeooDd~ and aince the 11idtile of 1977, there baYe bMn tilteen incident. or reale abeoondin« ae llfill1net only three ale 1nc1denta . rhe tilDe hae como to tea oh her a leaaon . She 1a nearly au teen 1ean old , And vill shortly be elic i ble ! or Bon tal trainin« or remanet in custody . -------- ~~5-<, J . ,.bo:won Su tend 45 MEMORANDUM To :- A.J . S~inner E ~q. , Senior Child Care O~fi cer From :- Dote 20th re: J . Thoms on ~q . , Sunerinte n e n t, Rau t ~ e la G6re nne .~u ly, 1978 120 120 has been losi ng wei ght eteaiil y for the past tvo or thrPe ~ ont he and has recent ly compla ined of c our~ing up blood •tnd passi ng blo..,d in her urine. She has a bad coug-h . An & ?~Oint me nt was mrde fo r see Dr. ~ay lor an~ •o have 120 a r ine sa=!)le taken . However , s nr ovin ... •mco-operative and has re fused to provirle a earnple ~nd si-P. :na:; df"~lino 1;0 see the Do ctor. As 120 is over 1 6yre . , hP r :'!ledical car e is ~f"r ovn reep-:>nsi "ili ty f!':en 1 ~ she is goin,~ to be stu'Jiri .11.nd ne~J e ct4' Jl . " will continue to offer advice end ~~id ar.c e to tli~ tires me ~i rl. J. ':'ro~ eon Superip t ondent 35 4 JERSEY EVENING POS . s· ;J. .or ,1. tr tmmy NEWS ~. A Savi MrBattle Yesterday the Sta1tes"I:Jt:)Ucte they had late DJ and t1autdela J~rsey, he had By luql_stephenson ~henwn@jers~eningpos.u.:om FOR almost 40 years S:ir Jimmy Savile was a regular, and prominent, visitor to Jersey. With his aging mother Agnes - whom be called 'the Duchess' -living in tbeLlttleSIStets of the Poor care home in New St Jol!n's Rood, st Helier, and repeated invitatiOlls; to .make public appearances at the Battle of FloWe!t'S parade and other events. from the·~ until the ·mJd-200()s the Island became· 'SOlMthlnil of a second home to the TV star and the <>~mper van he brought with him for accommodation. He also had close links with Guernsey; where he marlt"' a number of public appear~ ances-at the: height of his.ca.reer and where he registe-red his wlll before his death last_ year at. the age of B4. ' 1~6;9~w~h~en~S~ir~~~~i~ ile.Itmade his31first was on Julyof two Battle at tbe annual He was ahitpurtthe -lil!.l:e. as way. on. having the filii treatment was also presented to. - afOOr oombtog his flaxen locks!- fue.Bailifi; Lady Davis, Lady Le Masurier; and to Mr and Mrs Crill. . , 'And as the iloat pulled away from tbestand, Jtonny slapped up a salute aud a smile.' Charisma ihr...,;n'tiinliblie'who enjoyed his . . It was that energy and chru;isJna tha,t led the · ·· )'latt!e of Flowers ~e:fs(J;?· ~te him a~~~~~~~ the 3!U\Ua1 event, Sir Ji!Umy ' too · tbe experience. · · .back for a second tim.eas Ml: Bijlle in 1972. · the ' 'On that occasion his Miss ·~ttle Was Mary In. an August 2006 interview with the JEP, Radio Horton. Speaking in 2007, aud ecbping .tbe Sir .f!mll1Y spoke fonilly about his Battle days Hesaid:'On words used to describe his appearance three. aud•said be would happily have done tbe job. sey anytblng.' years earlier, she recalled that the eJWers Story dojng ,~:;mt.,rview]ng and Sir Jtonny his what you thought he was going to say or eo· . p8l'lts and sat there sWeating all over me. But byChrisLake,SirJinnnywi:'oteintheforward ceiebrt!Y"liueSt. aud fn a persorial capacity pletely go off ou a tangent. 'You could never read him, even when I ~ that~rsey was 'ajewelin 'the sea' aud. The whed Sir Jinnny would visit Mnrrays l:at'e, : )le did notspoU my da.1< It was w~rtUL' used to him. He waS a very sharp operator. · f .Sir Jtonny also returned to tbe ~ in :s~~ers was 'the stuff. of dreams'.· owned hYMr Norton. in'stAnbin. ' .· .' ·.: to the JEP yesterday, as alle~'Iknewhimverywellaudwasinvitedtohis was an extremely bUsiness-driven guy fn l]002 to act as a guest of h!>llqur at )'lattle of the very early days. It was his way or no w F'i(IW<)rs parade along with tbe late Sir H!mry ·.~~.·;;;:_y!s~'?~~m!"r'J::J bebebagan. ,flmeral by the family butl was unable to at- He was a very smmd businessman as w,:11 141\W •y~- w....., tlmd.~ said Ml: Nortoa 'I met Jtonny on possi' ~pel\ tbe lilni!I~.Jiea~bOte& . .. ' : . "I\'' ,' ~: •. : ' ', .• ' ' t h. j·i . abJII'!li.', d.· everything. • Mr Norton. who described Sir Jtonny a 'pioneer' to the .radjo world who liked to be ticed, tbe Top of the Pops s four and said he '" :~~~~~:;;.;~;~( j~-ckey; he- terms of te~ -'· -'~-~--bYt_he_was a pioneer: HL' ra~.{ iJ i.onlii0(,th~~f!Ht pee):>le to bring ahout pe danch).g to-. reCorded music rather than probablY one of ...... n:..!i(. .- ... - ' ,, 1 rs Q 2/77 i n ib u i' - J 1 11 ^ STATES OF JERSEY EDUCATION CCNMITTEE CHILDREN'S SUP CONNITTEE Meeting to be held at the Education Department, Highlands, St. Saviour, on Friday, 11th February, 1977. CHILDREN'S OFFICER'S REPORT CHILDREN IN CARE AS AT 31.1.77. ARTICLE 82 ARTICLE 83 ARTICLES 10, 16, 28, 31 and 53 SUPERVISION ARTICLE 28 8. SUPERVISED OTHER AUTHORITIES TOTAL ! HAUT BE LA GARENNE 29 5 18 1 53 (49) FAMILY GROUP HOMES 17 12 4 1 34 (33) FOSTER HOMES 8. LODGINGS 40 21 8 2 71 (77) SUPERVISED IN G:1U HOMES - - 27 - 27 (28) HOSPITALS 2 1 - - 27 4 3 HOSTELS IN JERSEY 4 2 FOSTER HOMES AND HOSTELS IN GUERNSEY - SPECIAL BOARDING SCHOOLS, U.K. w i \ 1 (3) I t 35 (37) ; 5 2 13 (12) ' i I' 1 - - 1 0. 1 1 3 - 5 (5) COMMUNITY HOMES, U.K. - - 5 - 5 (4) RESIDENT IN U.K. 1 1 1 - 3 (3) VOLUNTARY HOMES IN U.K. 1 - - - 1 (1) PRISON - - - - - (-) BORSTAL - - 1 - 1 (1) 122 48 75 7 VOLUNTARY CHILDREN'S HOMES, JERSEY Less Children Supervised 252(254) t i I i j __ I 245( 245) CHILDREN PRIVATELY PLACED 1 1 At no financial cost to the States but: supervised under Article 57: 65 ) \ 17 ) ONFIDEMTI.Vl - 2/77 CHILDREN RECEIVED INTO CARE UNDER ARTICLE 82 OF THE CHILDRr.M (JERSEY) L/.V/, 1969. ADMITTED TO VQLUMTARY HCMES b. .74. of was admitted to Brig y don on 11.1.77. due to mother's admission to Hospii.al. (C.C.O. J.B.E.) ADMITTED TO FAMILY GROUP HOMES 389 b. 66. This child was placed v;ith of Family Group Home, Clos ds Roncier, on 10.1.77. His mother is suffering from and asked us to make arrangements for the care of her son. is separated from her husb-^d whose whereabouts are,^ unknown. (C.C.A. S.H. CHILDREN DISCHARGED F R ^ CARE DISCHARGED FRCH VOLUNTARY HOMES b. .74. on 30.1.77. to the care of her father at J.B.E.) Kim v;as discharged from Brig y don (C.C.O. b. 76. v/as discharged from Brig y don on 17.1.77. and returned home to his parents at (C.C.D. J.B.E.) CHILDREN ADMITTED TO FOSTER HOMES 56 OF THE CHILDREN (JERSEY) LAIV, 1969. I ........ - ...... — — ' ' UNDER ' ■'ARTICLE ■■ ....... . .— ........ -■■— . .._j------j ' ■ ■■— il 1976 discharged from to the care of her mother, , c/o Mr. , on 16.1.77. (C.C.O. A.F.) GENERAL MATTERS CONCERNING CHILDREN IN CARE 6 b. 60. absconded from the Girls' Hostel on 23.1.77., 365 accompanied by Both girls had been drin' 120 120 b. 62. After a violent outburst from during the early hours of the morning, it v/as decided to transfer Preference to Haut ds la Garenne. i\ referral to the present being arranged. (C.C.O. A.F.) 374 120 on 28.1.77. from La is at b. 60, obtained employment cn 6.1.77. but on 6.1.77. he took a car from a car park and drove it. He later admitted this to the Police and cn the 9.1.77. made a voluntary statement. At a Parish Hall Enquiry held on 77. he v/as charged and v/arned for Court on 77. He v/as also instructed by the Constable of St, Saviour and Cantenier that he must remain at his lodgings 374 left and in his employment or face being remanded in custody. On 15.1.77. Jersey and v/ent to without consent or request, he v/as at this time only in breach of his Fit Person Order ns he had not failed to appear in Court. On 17,1.77. he v/as reported to be at the Community Home whichFe had b3sn, I arrangad to meat staff v;ith at but received a massaga on arrival that he had absconded. On 21.1.77. lie v/as seen onto a pi jno and met by myself and ttie Police at Jersey Airp-rt. Gn Conr.talile Norman's instructions he v/es remanded at tlie until he appeared in Court on 77. He was on that date found guilty and finsd f,1 3.00, wii.h the alternative of a prison sentence, di.squelified from driving for 6 months and Bound Over for tv.'o years. Dreause neither where he h.id been living, nor the Dovs Hc.st.cl would hove him, h.o in at pref.nnl- at Hout do la Gorenne. The aims 18 I_ j1 . — .n /? (/• 374 nnVXm,ri-lTl\L UUHi 1 ^ <^ i\\ \ 5 ij i 'i I 4/77 I* ^ ^ STATES OF JERSEY EDUCATION COMMITTEE CHILDREN'S SUB COMMITTEE Meeting to be held at the Education Department, Highlands, St. Saviour, on Wednesday, 20th April, 1977, at 2.30 p.m. CHILDREN '5 OFFICER'S REPORT 31 .3. 77. CHILDREN IN CARE AS AT : ARTICLES 10, 16, 20, 31 and 53 ARTICLE 82 ARTICLE 03 HAUT DE LA GARENNE 36 5 17 FAMILY GROUP HOMES 17 12 FOSTER HOMES S. LODGINGS 40 21 SUPERVISION ARTICLE 28 L SUPERVISED OTHER AUTHORITIES TOTAL - 58 (55) 3 1 33 (33) 8 2 71 (69) - 28 (28) SUPERVISED IN OWN HOMES - - HOSPITAL5 2 1 - - 30 4 3 1 38 (41) 4 2 7 2 15 (15) 1 - - 1 (1) VOLUNTARY CHILDREN'S HOMES, JERSEY HOSTELS IN JERSEY FOSTER HOMES AND HOSTELS IN Gl£RN5EY 20 3 (3) SPECIAL BOARDING SCHOOLS, U.K. 1 1 3 - 5 (5) COMMUNITY HOMES, U.K. - - 3 - 3 (5) RESIDENT IN U.K. 2 1 1 4 (3) VOLUNTARY HOMES IN U.K. 1 - - 1 (1) BORSTAL - - - 1 (1) 133 48 1 74 261(260) 6 Less Children Supervised 6 255(254) CHILDREN PRIVATELY PLACED At no financial cost to the States but supervised unde r Article 58; 65 41 2 J ci I ii * * 4/77 - ^ ^ * i < kL» CHILDREN RECEIVED INTO CARE UNDER ARTICLE 82 QF THE CHILDREN (JERSEY) LAW. 1969. b. 62. was discharged from the General Hospital and placed with 77. (C.C.O. D.J.C.) CHILDREN DISCHARGED FROM CARE DISCHARGED FROM VOLUNTARY HOMES b. 70. and b. 71. were discharged from La Preference on 19.3.77. to care of parents at b. 65. was discharged on 27.3.77. to care of parents. (C.C.O. D.J.C.) GENERAL MATTERS CONCERNING CHILDREN IN CARE b. 61. 171 returned for leave in Jersey and was again occupied by 171 being allo'wed to work at Haut de la Garenne. is due to leave Community Home this year and because of his interest in it is possible he vjill be able to attend a one-year course on at Highlands College. {C.C.O. D.J.C.) 171 b. 61. who is in the care of the Education Committee under Article 31 of the Children (Jersey) Lew, 1969, returned from Training School on 1.4.77. having completed his final term of training at the School. has returned to the care of his parents at and is earning pocket money working for a friend of his father's whilst efforts are being made by both himself and the Careers Section to find suitable permanent employment. (S.C.C.O. A.J.S.) 120 6 b. .60. and b. 62. appeared in the Magistrates Court on 77. charged with foul and disgusting language and being drunk and disorderly. was fin Binding Over Order re-imposed and was bound over 6 for one year. appeared in Juvenile Court on 77. to face another charge of malicious damage. This i-jas adjourned for a period of one month for psychiatric reports. (C.C.O. A.F.) 120 120 b. 374 whilst living at home. where he lived sufficient funds, 374 and he has several good 60. 374 has been working for He is still intent on trying to find employment in the for two years. Providing he can finance himself and has will be allowed to try. His parents have raised no objections contacts there. (C.C.D. D.J.C.) b. 57. vias discharged from Care on twentieth birthday. Address: 77. on reaching her (C.C.O. J.B.E.) 74 b. 61. 74 was adopted by on 27.5.66., a placement which shortly after, proved unsuccessful and the boy has been in care 74 was discharged from Haut de la Garenne on 1.10.76. and placed with since 9.3.71. t. He has always shown an interest in knov/ing about his natural motherand on 24.3.77.' M (now who 74 is natural mother contacted this Office in an attempt to see her son and 74 possibly have him return to live t with her new family (one of whom is 74 brother). Full consultations took place and as and his adoptive parents agreed to this reunion it was arranged. Subsequently 74 left Jersey on 1.4.77. with his 74 natural mother to live in . One hopes this re-union will be successful as is totally rejected hy his adoptive parents. It is intended that 74 remain i re (Article 82) until a review of the situation can be made by a Social V/orker in (C.C.O. R.D.) 36 b. 69. serious behaviour problems and poor performance in school during recent months have caused concern and after consultations with the Educational Psychologist, it was recommended that he should be transferred from Family Group Home, Norcott Villa, to a foster-home placement. On 25.3.77. he was placed with an experienced foster-mother who has 36 known for many years through her work as a domestic help at the Family Group Home, (S.C.C.O. B.C.) 42 36 : iL TBA/SV/206 CHILDREN'S SUB-COMMITTEE 13th July, 1977 Present Mrs. y\. Baal, Deputy of St. Helier, Chairman. J.H. Cabot, Senior Administrative Assistant. C.A. Smith, Children's Officer. T.B. Anthony, Committee Clerk. Present for a time : J.H. Thomson, Superintendent, Haut de la Garenne, Apologies, 1. The Sub-Committee noted that apologies for their absence had been conveyed by Deputy P.G. Mourant and Minutes. 2. The Minutes of the Meetings held on 15th June and 21st June, 1977, having been circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed. FamilyGroup Home Clos de Roncier. 3. The Sub-Committee, with reference to its Minutes No. 4 of 1 5 th June and No. 1 of 21st June, 1977, ^''^as informed by the Children's Officer that all the children in care had been removed from the Family Group Home at and his sons, aged were, however, still residing there as the Housing Department had been unable to assist in finding accommodation for him. The Housing Department had nevertheless confirmed that possessed the housing qualifications necessary for the renting of accommodation. The Children's Officer also reported that the house at Clos de Roncier was being cleaned and cleared. The Children's Officer also reported that son would be spending the summer holidays with relatives in the United Kingdom. 94 .77 r. F. : ion for s. k. The Sub-Committee, with reference to its Minutes No. 5 of 1 5 th June and No. 2 of 21st June, 1977> was informed by the Senior Administrative Assistant that the Director of Education wished to speak to himself and had asked that further consideration of this matter be deferred until he had had the opportunity of doing so. The Sub-Committee agreed. 5. The Sub-Committee recalled that, as recorded in its Minute No. 6 of 15th June, 1977, it had considered that although the J.A.Y.F. Hostels were independent and thus had a right to be selective as regards the children which they were prepared to accept as boarders, nevertheles it was a matter of concern in that there was no alternative place in which to house difficult adolescents above school age and it had drawn attention to the fact that the Association was also in receipt of a substantial grant from public funds from the Education Committee's Budget. The Chairman report that she had discussed the matter with the Chairman of the Education Committee, who was also President of the J.A.Y.F. The problem of finding suitable accommodation for difficult adolescents had been discussed at a recent Association meeting, at which the J.A.Y.F. had stressed that its object was to provide accommodation for children made homeless through no fault of their o^^m and not to provide corrective training. Each individual hostal had, however, been asked to invite the Chairman of the Sub-Committee to visit it to view the facilities. 3) 6. The Sub-Committee, with partial reference to its Minute No. 6 of 15th June, 1977, and its preceding Minute of this Meeting, was informed by the Children's Officer that was still a patient 6 at the General Hospital but the Hospital Authorities had requested her removal. The Children's Officer stated that, in view of the fact that 6 was 1 7 years of ago, the only place she could be transferred to was Haut de la Gareime, where she was likely to have an adverse effect on the other younger children. The Sub-Committee, having been advised by the Children's Officer that there were others for whom accommodation, other than Haut de la Garenne, could not be found, decided that a report containing details of all such children should be prepared and circulated to the Members in readiness for discussion at the next Meeting, in the context of establishing a range of boarding facilities including "professional fostering". 95 77 e la e - 120 lina The Sub-Conunittee was informed was receiving lessons once a week from an adult literacy tutor in addition to tuition by each morning. 9. The Sub-Committee decided that the Children's Officer should prepare a report on background for 120 consideration at its next Meeting, e la e - 10. The Chairman informed the Sub-Committee that the Education Committee had asked that the Sub-Committee should consider whether Haut de la Garenne should grow its o\\m vegetables and also that food should be bought in bulk and stored in deep freezers, in an attempt to reduce expenditure. The Sub-Committee recalled its Minute No, 8 of 11th May, 1977 in which the Superintendent had been requested to consider the possibility of the children undertaking work in the gardens. The Superintendent stated that he had given preliminary consideration to the matter and it was his opinion that, in order to make the proposal costeffective, it would be necessary to employ skilled labour to supervise the task. On the question of bulk-buying food, the Superintendent explained that this was in fact normal procedure and it was common practice to seek out the lowest prices from the various suppliers. The Superintendent agreed to provide examples of the various costings. ng tes. 11, The Sub-Committee considered the level of boarding out rates and recalled that the rates had been increased, in accordance with the Committee's policy, with effect from 1st January, 1977. It was noted that the Jersey Cost of Living Index had risen by h.6 per cent durirjg the period from 1st January to 31st March, 1977t and the Economic Adviser estimated that the increase over the whole six month period to 30th June, 1977, would be approximately 9 per cent. The Sub-Committee accordingly decided to recommend that the boarding out rates be increased with effect from 1st July, 1977, as follows Age Per day current Per day proposed Percentage Increase up to k years fl.85 £2.00 8.10 5-10 years £2.15 £2.35 9.30 11-15 years £.2.k0 £2 . 6 0 8.33 1 6 - 1 7 years £2 . 6 0 £2.85 9.61 Working children subsidised up to I5 -I7 years £2.15 £2.35 9.30 97 32. AHM/SV/248 CHILDREN'S SUB-COMMITTEE 17th Auaust, 1977 Present: Mrs. A. Baal, Deputy of St. Helier, Chairman. J.H. Cabot, Senior Administrative Assistant. C.A. Smith, Children's Officer. Miss A.H. Moore, Acting Committee Clerk. Present for a time; J.H. Thomson, Superintendent, Haut de la Garenne. Deputy Superintendent, Haut de la Garenne. Apologies, 1. The Sub-Committee noted that an apology for his absence had been conveyed by Deputy P.G. Mourant. Minutes. 2. The Minutes of the Meeting held on 13th July, 1977, having been circulated, were taken as read and were confirmed. 3. The Sub-Committee, with reference to its Minute No. 4 of 13th July, 1977, received a report dated 8th August, 1977 of the Director of Education concerning his discussion with the foster mother of (b.19. . The Sub-Committee recalled that who was almost paid fees herself for at School, and in this connexion, noted that had been seen by Mr. Gilchrist, Educational Psychologist, who assessed her as of limited ability and unlikely to achieve the academic standard expected by . In the opinion of Mr. Gilchrist, the educational needs of the child would be best met in one of the secondary schools which would cater more effectively for children like The Sub-Committee noted the Director of Education's recommendations as follows (a) that remain a pupil at for the coming year; 102 77 (b) that the Children's Officer take steps to broaden life and offer her opportunities to mix more widely by contact with a Family Group Home for example, where she could stay for occasional weekends; (c) that the Sub-Committee consider recommending an upper age limit for foster parents, and that be advised that her fostering of would come to a gradual end over the next 12-18 months. The Sub-Committee discussed the problem in some detail, and agreed that it should implement recommendations (a) and (b) with immediate effect. In this regard the Sub-Committee noted that the Director had received a letter, dated 14th August, 1977, from , stating that she had accepted that the child would be permitted to continue at School for the coming year only. The Sub-Committee agreed that it should give further consideration to (c) regarding the recommendation, as a matter of policy, of an upper age limit for foster parents and in particular the Director's recommendation that fostering of should come to an end over the next year to 18 months. . on •ion :ult .cent >f the ■ion •tee. 62). 4. The Sub-Committee received a report, dated 12th August, 1977, on the need for specific provision to be made within the Island for the difficult adolescents in the care of the Education Committee, prepared by Mr. Anton Skinner, Senior Child Care Officer. The Sub-Committee, after a brief discussion, agreed that full consideration of this report should be deferred until a subsequent meeting. 5. The Sub-Committee, with reference to its Minute No. 9 of 13th July, 1977, received a background 120 report on b. 62, from Mrs. A. Ferguson, Child Care Officer (Appendix C to these Minutes). The Sub-Committee noted the contents of the Report, and agreed that an effort should be made to find emplovment for 120 in a sheltered atmosphere, for exam.ple at The Sub-Committee agreed 120 should continue to reside at Haut de la that Garenne Children's Home and should continue to receive tuition through the adult literacy scheme. 103 n O M r s n r MT! ■ '‘i I 10/T7 U U ! -n i L/' L_ t 'i i I ... L STATES OF JERSEY EDUCATION COMMITTEE CHILDREN'S SUB COMMITTEE Meeting to be held at Haut de la Garenne, Gorey, on Wednesday, 19tli October, 1977, at 2,30 p.m. CHILDREN'S OFFICER'S REPORT CHILDREN IN CARE AS AT 30.9.77. ARTICLE 82 ARTICLE 83 ARTICLES 10, 16, 28, 31 and 53 HAUT DE LA GARENNE- 28 4 20 FAMILY GROUP HOMES 12 6 FOSTER HOMES L LODGINGS 39 SUPERVISED IN OWN HOMES, JERSEY SUPERVISION ARTICLE 28 &. SUPERVISED OTHER AUTHORITIES TOTAL - 52 (45) 1 - 19 (19) 23 8 4 74 (76) - 2 34 - 36 (39) SUPERVISED IN OWN HOMES, ENGLAND - 2 - - 2 (2) HOSPITALS 1 1 - - 2 (2) HOSTELS IN JERSEY 2 4 3 1 10 (10) VOLUNTARY CHILDREN'S HOMES } 21 JERSEY 5 5 1 32 (33) FOSTER HOMES L HOSTELS IN GUERNSEY - 1 - - 1 (1) SPECIAL BOARDING SCHOOLS, U.K. -/- 1 1 1 - 3 (2) - 2 - 2 (2) - 2 - 3 (3) 1 - 2 (2) COMMUNITY HOMES IN U.K. RESIDENT IN U.K. 1 VOLUNTARY HOMES IN U.K. 1 BORSTAL - 1 - - 1 (1) PRISON - - - - - (-) JUVENILE R E W N D WING - - 1 - 1 (-) H.M. FORCES - 1 - - 1 (-) 106 li 18 ' 241(237) _6 Less Children Supervised • CHILDREN PRIVATELY PLACED At no financial cost to tha States but supervi,sed under Article 58: 6 235(231 ) 66 128 P n M r ' ! n r L/ o i ^ 4 L- i t i U ' H 10/77 C H ILDREN ADMITTED TO CARE UNDER ARTICLE 82 OF THE CHILDREN (JERSEY) LAW. 1969. ADf^ITTED TO VOLUNTARY HOMES were admitted to Brig y don on 10.9.77. whilst thair moxher had a rest, at doctor's request, (C.C.O. M.M.D.) CHILDREN DISCHARGED FROM CARE DISCHARGED FROPI FOSTER HOMES b, 77. discharged from , on 19.9.77. to prospective adopters, (C.C.O. D.J.C.) DISCHARGED FRg-1 VOLUNTARY HOMES (b on 24.9.77. to care of mother at 74.) were discharged from Brig y don (C.C.O. M.M.B.) GELERAL m i T E R S CONCERNING CHILDREN IN CARE 408 b. 59. v;as transferred from Camelot Girls' Hostel on 15.9.77. to (C.C.D. A.F.) a flat at b. 66. who is committed to the care of-the Education Committee, was discharged from Haut de la Garenne to the care of his parents at the end of July. He ran away from home between Wednesday tea-time, 21.9.77. until 6.00 on Saturday, 24.9.77. following conflict with his parents arising from discovery of a minor offence committed several weeks previously. was found by his father who took him home. He was unharmed and no offences have come to light though he was "sleeping rough". The home situation has now settled dov/n again. (C.C.O. H.C.) b. 62. appeared in the Juvenile Court on 77. charged with 120 malicious damage. She was bound over to be of good behaviour for a period of two 120 years. At present, is being slowly introduced to the . (C.C.O. A.F.) appeared at Juvenile Court on 77. were charged with the theft of from also being charged with this offence and other charges of breaking and entering and larceny. was placed on one year's probation and was Bound Over for one year, but as offences were more numerous and serious he is to appear at Royal Court with a recommendation that he receive Borstal Training. He is in custody at La Hoye Prison. (C.C.A. S.R.) b. 61. who is committed to the care of the Education Committee but lives at home, was sentenced to one month's imprisonment following charges of assault on a The assault was unprovoked and serious in character. Due to the time spent on remand in custody, actually spent only the period 7.9.77. to 24.9.77. in addition at the Juvenile Wing at La Moye Prison. (C.C.O. H.C.) b. the present 61. has now left La Preference and is in , having joined on 27.9.77, will be on six weeks initial training at his (C.C.O. D.J.C.) 129 '8 I. ■2 ) 5. The Sub-Committee, with reference to its Minute No. 9 of 16th August, 1978, considered a report dated 12th September, 1978, from the Children's Officer (attached as Appendix to these Minutes) concerning a request from and 120 aged 16-^ for permission to marry in 1978. A Parental Rights Order had been made in the Royal Court in respect of 120 on 2nd April, 1976. The Sub-Committee, having considered the matter, decided to support the recommendation of the Children's 120 's age, permission should Officer that, in view of not be granted at present but that the matter should be reviewed when she attained her seventeenth birthday on , 1979. 6. The Sub-Committee considered a report, dated 9th August, 1978, from the Children's Officer (attached as an Appendix to these Minutes) concerning the use of at present the Family Group Home run by , when left it as expected by the end of 1978. In this connexion, the Sub-Committee noted a suggestion of the Director of Education that the premises could possibly be converted into self-contained units of accommodation for working adolescents, to be supervised by a Warden. Each adolescent would be responsible for his own room, and breakfast and evening meals would be provided. The Sub-Committee agreed that this suggestion merited further investigation. The Sub-Committee considered the suggestions put forward in the Children's Officer's report and agreed in principle to recommend that might be used as a Group Home for adolescents, thus relieving Haut de la Garenne. It was noted that the premises could accommodate both boys and girls, with adequate segregatioi|i, up to a maximum of six persons with one emergency bed. The Sub-Committee agreed that further consideration shoulc. be given to the method by which this could be achieved at a subsequent meeting. It was also agreed that the matter should form the basis of a discussion at a Joint meeting with the Education Committee. 89 T3A/AI'IL/LJ/314 CHILDREN'S SUB-COMMITTEE 18th October, 1978 Present; of 3t. Helier, Chairman. P.G-. Mourant, Deputy of St. Helier. A.J. J.3. T.3. A.N. Present for a time: Skinner, Senior Child Care Officer. Rodhouse, Director of Education. Anthony, Committee Clerk. Legg, States Greffe. J.H. Thomson, Superintendent, Kaut de la Garenne. Minutes 1. The Minutes of the Meeting held on 20th September, 1978, having been previously circulated were taken as read and were confirmed. Assistant Director (Administ­ ration) Thanks. 2. The Sub-Committee, having recalled that it had noted at its previous Meeting that Mr. J.H. Cabot, Assistant Director (Administration) would not regularly attend future Meetings in view of the appointment of an Assistant Director (Professional Ser'/ices), decided to pla: on record its thanks for the service Mr. Cabot had given in the past. 120 D.0.3. 62 3. The Sub-Committee, v;ith reference to its Minute 5 of 20th September, 197 d by the Senior 120 Child Care Officer that had accepted the decision regarding the postponement of her marriage. D.O'.B. 67 4. The Sub-Committee, with reference to its Minute Ho. 4 of 20th September, 1978, 'was informed that it appeared that a place 'was available for at a residential school in the United Kingdom. 94 CONFIDENTIAL' 2 4/31 - REPORTS Orj CHILDREN IN CARE iJP^D AND INCLUDING*6th APRIL 1981 CHILDREN RECEIVED INTO CARE DISCHARGED FROM VOLUNTARY HOMES. 203 203 were discharged from Brig y Don Children's Home on 16.3.31. to the care of their parents at the above address. All future monitoring and supervision of the children to be undertaken by the Health Visiting Service in conjunction with the family General Practitioner. (S.C.C.O. B.C.) at Brig y Don Children's Home. These little girls were admitted to Care in December 1973 at a time of family breakdown. Both parents have now established settled cohabitations, father having continued to care for two older children. Following review and decision by the Royal Court on Custody, Care and Control and Access matters, have been discharged to the care of their mother who was recently rehoused at , (C.C.Q. H.C.) GENERAL MATTERS CONCERNING CHILDREN AND FAMILIES UNDER ARTICLE 58 OF THE CHILDREN (JERSEY) LAV/. 1969. b. at 66, . is being cared for by and is continuing his education He returns to his parents at holiday times. (C.C.A. J.E.B.) GENERAL MATTERS CONCERNING CHILDREN IN CARE b. 61T'was discharged from Care on twentieth birthday, (C.C.O. A.F.) 120 b, Prison, 81. on reaching his 6 ? “'W a r transferred from H.M. Prison La Moye, Jersey, to H.M. oh 1,4.81, prior to Borstal placement, (C.C.O. P.A.V.) 144 b, 63. c/o . left School on 3.3.81, and commenced full-time employment at Hair Salon, Mrs. Nicholle appeared in Petty Debts Court on 81. and was given a two month stay on an eviction order. She has found alternative accommodation and will be moving within that period, will remain in the foster care of Mrs. Nicholle who receives a subsidized boarding out allowance. (C.C.O. P.A.V.) 111 b. 69. has been admitted to the Children's Psychiatric Unit ^ 145 after growing concern about his behaviour at school and at home. is under­ going a period of assessment. Home address: (C.C.O. D.I. 223 with b. 64. at Haut de la Garenne. She is working as a 223 has now commenced employment co-ordinator. (C.C.O. D.I.) b. 78. following further intensive treatment, has remained cheerful, A recent assessment by Mr, J, Birtwistle, Educational Psychologist, reveals that is in most areas achieving to the levels expected of him and this due to the resilience he has and the excellent care He receives at La Preference from and staff. {C.C.O. D.J.C.) b. 61 -was involved in a car accident as a passenger and received injuries to her . An operation was performed and her will spend weeks in hospital. (C.C.Ot D.J.C.) 34 ^ -J MOV E MENT5 OF DHIL23EM r> j KJ L l[! 551Dims ; 3.D.3. Placement 69. Les Chenes 67. Les Chenes 69. Foster Home .74» .81, Haut de la Garenne Haut de la Garenne Reason Fit Person OrderArticle 31 Fit Person Order Article 31 Orphaned - Boarded c with grandparents Mother unfit to cart Step-mother's admission to Hospitf MARGES: D .0.5, 120 62. 72. 77. . 74. 68. 79. 74. 81. r rom Ic Discharged from Care - 20th i )irthday - in H.M. Prison La Moye Home Haut de la Garenne n Home tt Home Home Haut de la Garenne Home Brig y don Home Haut de la Garenne Home Haut de la Garenne I5 FERS: 5 D,0,E. 24 381 From 66. 69. 66. 67. 76. 65. 81. Haut de la Garenne Haut de la Garenne Elizabeth House Haut de la Garenne Brig y don Girls Hostel Foster home (Art 82) 63. 65. 66. Boys Hostel Haut de la Garenne Haut de la Garenne To Foster home Home on trial Lodgings Foster hone Foster home Lodgings (Art 83) Parental Rights Order 23,4.6? Sup. in own home Lodgings 53 , • : J lit . r-\ r— ^ 1 ^ " I i i — ■ ui-a . • * • 11/76 * CHILDREN RECEIVED INTO CARE UNDER ARTICLE B2 OF THE CHILDREN (JERSEY) LAW. 1969. PLACED IN FOSTER HOMES b. death 74. received into care on 22,11.76. following mother's and placed with maternal grandmother, Mrs, St. Helier. (C.C.Q. A.F.) b. .76. was discharged from Maternity Hospital on 3.11.76. and placed with Mrs. as a pre-adoption placement. Mother has gone back to (C.C.O. M.L.B.) DISCHARGED FROM FOSTER HOMES b. 60. who v;as in lodgings at returned home ta his parents at on 23.11.76. (C.C,0. J.B.E.) DISCHARGED FROM VOLUNTARY HOMES ^ b. 72. was discharged from Brig y don on 2.11.76. and returned to the care of his parents at (C.C.A. S.R.) CHILDREN ADMITTED TO FOSTER HOMES UNDER ARTICLE 56 OF THE CHILDREN (JERSEY) LAW. 1969. b. 76. is the son of a and continental farmworkers, working and living at St. Clement. Due to inadequate accommodation at this farm, upon discharge from the Maternity Hospital was placed in the care of foster-parents, on a private basis, on 5.11,76. (C.C.O. A.J.5.) of GENERAL MATTERS CONCERNING CHILDREN IN CARE Grouville. Information has been received from the Prison Governor that the father of these children, who is at present serving a sentence of at , has requested return to Jersey in order that he may see the children. As this is impossible, lit is suggested that the Education Committee might consider the expense cf the cl^ildren 'visiting their father at on one or two occasions each year at an approximate cost of £5D.Q0 per visit. (C.C.O. J.B.E.) ! 1 b. Order was made in respect of 63. At the Royal Court on 76, a Parental Right^ (C.C.O. A.F.) 120 b. 62. At the request of the Headmaster of this girl was removed from the School on 13.11.76. as she had failed to se"^tle and had became extremely anti-social. She was returned to Jersey and placed * temporarily at La Preference where todate she has created no cause for concern. The question of her education is being investigated. (C.C.O. A.F.) 125 b. .67. Haut de la Garenne, Gorey. was made at the Royal Court on 76. in respect of A Parejital Rights Order j (C.C.O. M.^.B.) 125 i 249 b. 61. is placed at Family Group Home, Clos dos Sables and is ^ pupil at Les Quennevais School. She did not leave School at 15 but has stayed to take C.S.E. examinations. She would like to take part on a planned school trip to Dartmoor next year at a cost of £30.00 and I v;ould recommend that this be met from the Children's Benefit Interest Fund. (C.C.O. H.D.) 4 o " ;>ÿ-" -ÿ ..-..y o-- ÿ > o @ r- -.." 0 r" . ÿ _ fle-ÿ Eg : .-'1 ÿ • ÿ. o -u • -C'ÿ ÿ ÿ×o r- _ÿ'ÿ.-- ÿ.ÿ- ÿ ,...ÿ S-E ,.-.. og tm ..o J ,,..- b © .ÿ- • -ÿ oO u, '-6 = ..ÿ=ÿ ÿ= / -ÿ_ÿ= Iÿ P :'='-'ÿ - ÿgÿ.. 120 0 120 120 O9 C 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 14393 1 1 19453 DATE OP BIRTH: 6ÿ << ÿ, ,ÿ,ÿ li0r/Nÿ ÿDDFsÿ]S8 RELIGIOIÿ: ' ÿ. ÿ " --, -rÿ iÿ ' :',iÿ<ÿ SAP!IS_,dO: rEo/ÿ} Soman Cÿtholic REASON ÿ0R CARE: SCHOOLS : "iother in prisc n ARÿ IC LE DATE SCHOOL I i ] EHPLOYHENT . ÿE EHPLOYER I i P&REN TS : 'A THER N0 THER Name R Date & ÿlace of Birth /ÿP- Address if different from child Employer Contact Te],o NO. SIBLINGS : NAHE D",, (rl]ÿ ]- " r-1 T I 6, 248 I I D,ÿTE PLACEMENT 1.8.75 6.9.71 ,Admitted to Hau% de la Garenne . Transferrÿd to Sprcial Scho;:,l 20•7.73 - 10.9.73 - Summer h:rlidays - hams• 19.12.73 5.4.74 1 9.7.74 - --_ 30.8.74 25.7.75 6.1.74 - home. 15•2.74 - 24.2.74 - home 1.4.74 - Easter holiday'ÿ " 24ÿ 5" 74 " 8.9.74 - Summer holidays. Returned home. 26 10 73 - 5 11 73 - home 2•9.74 2.6•74 ÿ 1.8.74 - 16 8 74 • ÿ • hems • ÿ La Pÿeference. _ ÿ Re-admitted to La Preference. Admitted 1o Hau% de la Garenne. I 1 19455 6, 120 ÿ41ÿ$ Information from Dr. Milligan - 18.9.75.

Family referred to Public Health in 1960 when conditions very poor. They left Island in October 1960 and mother and children returned early 1 961.

6

was boarded out for a while and then placed in CrGche.

and went into Creche with

120

born

6

Mother went to prison for a while, later went to live with a

They visited children regularly and influence.

.

as seen to be a steadying

eturned and had another woman, only stayed in picture

for a while and left. 1 965

ere returned home and new baby was born, family moved to and stabilized.

120

ent to St. Mark's School but in 1968

Eother was found to be drunk and disorderly, home unsatisfactory an were herÿ at IIaut de la Garenne for a month.

Mother was found to be unable to cope wit

and

120

particularly. Headmaster at Sshool said she attended in filthy condition and was unresponsive, In 1971 she saw Mr. Hollywood who reported that the girl was disturbed, prone to temper tantrums, would wander off from class at will, seeking attention at all times, full I.Q. 69, and was illiterate at 9 years old. Could accurately copy I - 10 but had letter reversal retardation so marked as to need special school and a Benigh environment therefore recommended Residential School - went over to U.K. with M

6

Expelled summer term 1975

and was placed at Haut de la Garenne. No record of jabs or baby medicals - should have tetanus and polio course started once settled.

1

MEMORANDUM

To:-

From:-

C.A. Smith Esq.,

· Childrens Officer

J. Thomson Esq., Superintendent

Date · ···· ··· · · ·let· · ·~:~.I·elt· ·-1911······ · ···

120 The l"dmisf'ion of ond ; and their combined effect on led to ~ most difficult an~ unsettled month. These three very difficult your.~t.ers triggered off n. vo.ve reaction omoJ18St our more vulnf!rtible youngsters a.nd produced an abysmal abuconding record for the month - viz:-

120

once - three times

On 5.2.77 It 5.2.77 7.2.77

- twice

tl

21.2.77 -

t~ioe

- once - three times

7.2.77 21.2.77 " 1:5.2.77 21.2.77

II II

n.2.11

13.2.77 21. ::?. 77

28

217 504 136

... three times

II

- twice

tt

-

once once once once once

22.2.77 14.:?.77 21.2.77 22.2.77 14.2.• 77

15.2.77 ., 17.2.77 n 21.2.77

··~ ~;~2.::!.77

" II

22.2.77 22.2.77

There is niJ d{)ubt that "b"nkin,~ i t 11 is considered a gr~lat ~~1·k by some • 28 and it can become an epidemic! We eventually caned and (3 etrokea each) for absconding two nights running (no pun intended{!) 120 This seemed to stop the rot - however will cause us endless problems ae long ne she ia with ua - she hae nothing tc lose. are to aee a C8 nterder nt St. Saviour's Parish Ball on Friday , for allagedly aaaaultill8' on a bus at Five Oaks. may r~.lao face several cho.r~e as a result of minor thefts llhe:..1 he absconded. 120

may also be ch~rged. with malicious dame.ge at Fort Regen.t. is to see the Centeniar again on Friday , over an alleged assault at Fort Regent. Naturally, the staff have all been worried and upset by these happenings. and

continuod •••••••

209

MEMORANDUM

To:-

From:-

C.A. Smith Esq.,

J. Thomson Esq.

Date ....................................................... .

continued ••••••• Thera hna been a Senior Staff Meetinc And a General ·Staff Meeting. Our conclusiono were the same and 120 and primarily to blP-me ftnd i~focting the weak, the gullible Rnd the vulnerable. '!hei·e ms.y aleo be ~n element of puttine the naw ret~e on tte rack. We nre all n.greed to ret:lein nteadf#lst 1.

Good conduct will

2.

B~d.

oo

trt ~heee

three pr1.nciplea:

ncl:nowledged and rewarded.

conduct will bring down ennct,_ons of one kind or another.

3. Further bad con1uct will not be allowed to undermine us or sha~e

our resolve.

Finally, I would say that those children who are here partially, or wholly, b!o· choir:e in prefE:re:lce to hein6 a~ holle -";. th a p.-'U'ent or pnrants, vill he expected to behave theruselveo in a manner befitting their choice. I will not tol~rote young people opting ~or Raut de le Garenne in preference to their home, and then causing disruption and tro~ble to the steff and other children.

210

Case Ref; Exhibit No. No. of pages Tape Reference No:

TAPE RECORDED IN TERV IEW W ITH 74 IN TER V IEW ROOM , ROUGE BOUILLON PO LIC E STATION ON FRIDAY 25^" JANUARY 2008

602

10:30AM

= Briafl C arter 174

This is a tape recording of a witness statement provided to be This interview is being recorded at Sumerland Police Station. The time is 10^30 hours and today’s date is Friday 25 ‘ Januaiy 2008. I am a civilian officer, an investigator 602 Brian Carter, I d o n ’t have a colleague present today for this interview. Can you please state your full name? 174 602

Have you been known by any other name?

B7 3

No

602

Okay and your date of birth please 1955

602

And where were you born?

0 73

Jersey

602

602

Are you currently working

174

No 602Okay - before we can continue I just w ant to read over to you the specific guidelines in which your disclosure can be recorded, I will ask you sign this form at the end of the interview. The first one is an integral promise of the interviewing officers and that states that ‘The States of Jersey Police are conducting an investigation into Historic Institutional Child Abuse. W e believe

11

Page 2

Tape Reference No:|

4652 that you might be able to help us with our enquiries. Everything you say to us will be on a purely voluntary basis, though we will ask you questions relating to the enquiry. We will not prompt you to say anything you do not wish to say. We will not coach you to say anything that are not your own words, our intention is to illicit the truth of the matter. You do not have to tell us anything if you do not wish. Do you understand that? Hmm 602

The second is the information provider, I have not given, w%ich relates to me, ‘I have not given any names or identified any places that are not purely within my own knowledge. The police have not forced me to say anything I don’t want to say or did not know before the police spoke with me’ Do you understand that 174

174

1 do yeh

602

Can we just confirm that on Wednesday January 2008 between 11:30 hours and 13:50 hours myself and you sat down and discussed the Home

174

Yes th a t’s right

602

Can you also confirm that on that morning when we spoke that I did not lead you in any way?

174

No th a t’s right

602

And that eveiything that you told me w^as from your own knowledge?

174

My own Icnowledge yes

602

Are you happy with that?

174

Yes

602

Okay - w hat I would like to do today is break this down into two separate interviews for w ant of a better word. You mentioned certain names to me on W^ednesday morning, really I would like Just to cover a certain aiea. You spoke about M r Wateridge, okay

174

Yes

602

As part of the whole shebang the other morning. On this occasion and on this particular tape, I Just w ant to speak about M r Wateridge. We will also do a following tape relating to other members of staff, and the lifestyle you had in the Home. Are you happy with that?

174

Yes

602

Okay - Can you Just please go over in your own words, giving me as much detail as you can remember, um w hat you can recall of M r Wateridge

.

2

Page 3

Tape Rd’ereiKe ■

4653 87

[because he had run away from the Um - Well I got in touch with Home and he had a job to go to and I said to him you will starve to death you because it was a week in ^^nd^noney, like you know and that s when I first met M r Wateridge. He p ic k e d ^ H S^ H u p 602

Okay right - can you tell about how old you would have been at that time? Oh about 18, 19

602

And how old would h a v e ^ d ^ J b e e n at? 17

602

Okay and maybe I just should have introduced you a little bit more. Can you just tell me w hat year or how old you were when you went to like in the Children’s Home, known as H aut de la Garenne

m

1967

602

Right and you left at?

174

1970

602

Right so approximately w hat age would you have been when you w^ent into the Home 1 1, 12 - something like that

602

Right and you left at approximately at? When I w^as 15,

602

Okay so w hat you’re talking about M r Wateridge is that you had been in the C hildren’s Home Yuh

602

You had left the C hildren’s Home Yuh and I went to s e e ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ w h o were up there

602

74 602

Okay I will come on to t h a ^ ^ k ^ ^ H s fair for me to say th a t you left the Home. How did you k n o w ^ ^ ^ d ^ ^ ^ | a t the time? Because we shared dormitories together like you know at the Home Okay right going back to w hat you were saying then with| the Home he had ru n away

87

he was out of

Yes 602

And if I am right in saying is that you saying that he had nothing to eat and was coming back to the Home, yeh

3

Tape Reference No:

74 602 74

602 74 602 74

602

174

Page 4

4654

Yes Okay so just tell me w hat happened from then I phoned up the Home from a private address it was house, I pressed the buzzer and I asked the w'oman if I could use the te le p h o n e^o u lm o w . So I phoned up and M r W ateridge was on duty so he came to p i c k H | | ^ l u p and dropped me off at my foster mother’s like you know, that is the first time I met M r Wateridge. Okay so it is fair to say you didn’t know him from the Home but that was the first occasion First occasion Right okay - so go on you mentioned 'ere up at the Home and I used to go and visit them, most w'eekends like, sometimes during the week, sometimes at the w'eekend and th at’s when I got to know M r Wateridge a bit more Okay so what w'as the time difference between up to the Home?

end him going back

Urn - going back to the Home when 602

You said you knew Yes

602

You met M r W ateridge for the first time and you used to go and see

Yes th a t’s right 602 74 602

Can you just tell me who 20

araes are;

6

So after the first meeting with M r Watcridgc and you v/ent up to the Home afterwards. Was there a long period between that? About 2 years I think

602

Okay I mean are you sure on that? I am not sure, the times, its long ago an}way so I am not too sure, but I would say about 2 years ,

602

Okay so as you know it is very important so if you are not sure of something, just say you are not sure of something, especially dates

4

174

Tape Reference No:l

----------- 4 6 5 5

Yes 602 74

602 74 602'

74 602 74

Because we do appreciate it is a long time ago Yes

But I have also got a duty to ensure that you’re view is balances on all this as well. Do you understand that? Yes Right so you explained that you used to go and visit what your routine would be when you would go and visit where you would see them

tell me and

Um I would go up to the senior sitting room Yeh

-

There were a few girls there

602

Yeh

^ 79

And I found it strange about M r W ateridge because he was kissing and cuddling the girls like you know

602

Okay - just carry'on I don’t want to stop you I saw him caress one girl’s chest like you know and I thought it was a strange thing th at a member of staff doing that you know. T h a t’s all I can recall on that

602

Okay so can you just give me some idea, did you know the person he was caressing? No I d o n ’t know

602

Okay can you give me an age of a how she would have been approximately? 15, 16

602

Okay and where about did all this take place?

VBM

In the sitting room on a chair, she w'as sitting on his knee like you know

602

Okay and how w'as she sitting on him? At right angles to him

602

Okay so w'hat type of chair was it first of all? Um it was a like a hands tweed chair

5

Tape Reference No:

602

174

Page 6

4656

Okay was it a single chair or dooble chair? Single chair

602

Okay we are sitting here in office chairs, is it a similar type chair to this? Similar, similar yeh I

602

Okay and what was she doing? Um I can^t remember what she was doing though, but she was happy anyway I

602

And tell w hat he was doing exactly He was caressing her fondly her

602

Right can you explain what you meant by caressing? ^

602

He was stroking her chest and kissing her on the cheek Okay and w hat type of kiss would that be? A long kiss, yeh

602

Okay and when you say he was caressing her chest, how was he doing that? With his hand

602

Fine okay and can you just explain to me, I am tiying to get to how his position w^as to h er for him to be caressing, you know. Can you give Just a bit more detail? Um he was sitting down on the chair and she was sitting on his lap

602

Okay right and she was parallel before to me Right angles

602

Sorry okay so where would his left arm would have been for example? Over her shoulder

602

Right and'w here would his hand have been? On her chest

602

Okay w hat about his hand, right arm? I can’t rem em ber now, um. I found it strange anyw^ay that he was doing that you know, being a member of staff do you know w hat I mean

602

Okay Can you descried this girl, can you remember w hat she looked like?

6

174

Tape Reference iNo:|

D7 4

602

W hat makes you recall the

Page 7

4657

h a i r ^ H eyes, about|

Uni because I was looking at him when I was talking to| 602

Okay how far away would you have been from him?

H7B

602

So you were reasonably close then

Hike

Reasonably close then, yes 602

Okay could you hear any conversation at ail between them?

^ 73

Um they w^ere talking like you know but I didn’t make heads or tails of it like you know

602

Okay so you say that he had his hand on her breast yeh, Can you describe the shape of his hand wdien it was on her breast? Flat, it was a flat hand

602 ■'

Okay and the end of her breast for example where would it have been in comparison to the flat of his hand? U nderneath

602 D

73

602

So can you explain that a bit more? U nderneath his hand, the breast was undeimeath his hand w^hen he was stroking it W hat p a rt of her breast was he touching then? The whole p a rt

602 H

79

602

Yes The whole p art yes Okay - I mean if you are sure about any of these questions, please say so T h a t’s right yes

602

I don’t w^ant to put wmrds - but I need to tiy and extract the information that you have from you Okay

602

So I have got my hand open now okay this his hand, which hand did you say again

7

Page 8

Tape Reference No:|

4658

m 4

The right hand

602

The right hand

mu

Right hand yeh

602

Where would her breast have been compared to ray hand?

■ ■■

In the middle

602

So could you just show me? So it is fair of me to say then that he had the palm of his hand open and it was over the whole of her breast?

■ ■4

Over the whole of her breast

602

Can you describe w hat sort of size breast she would have had?

^ |4

They were small w hat I can remember like you know

602

Okay

■ ■■

She wasnT buxom like you know

602

Okay so you say she h a d ^ ^ ^ J h a i r

■ ■■ 602

hair yes W hat sort of length would her llength

602

Ok, Um w hat were the other people in the room doing whilst he w'as doing this?

■|4

They were playing music

602

Okay and you can just describe the room to me?

,

First of all when you walked through the door, there was a snooker table and then th e re ’s like an open bookcase where you walk through the middle into the sitting lounge you know, and there is a telly and record player um on a plinth if you understand w hat that means, people were playing music and listening to the television 602

Okay and were there any other children in this room, sort of observing or did they just keep getting on with their like normal Just getting on like normal, yeh

602

Is it fair of me to say then th at his actions with this particular female did not really disturb all the other children, they didn’t take any notice of what was happening

8

Page 9

Tape Rerereiice No:

m

No they d idn’t take any notice. They were too busy dancing and listening to the music like you know

602

So you mentioned you thought that inaudible d idn’t think it was right. Can you just explain to me what you mean by that

■| 3

Well I w^as young at the time but I still thought that there was a sexual motive there you know

602

Right okay

H14

I mean I was only young myself like you know so I didn’t know w'hat relation there was between him and the girl like you know

602

How old would you say he was then

4659

Oh its h ard to say, forties about mid-forties something like that 602

Okay so is it fair of me to say that it was obviously, it was apparent that she was a young girl? Yeh

602

She w asn’t a veiy, what I am tiding to say in your eyes , I appreciate that he was a staff member and he would have'known the age group, could you personally tell that she w^as a child?

■ |H

Yeh I could yeh

602

Okay had you seen this t}'pe of action from M r Wateridge with other people when visiting?

I 14

No, No

602

So it was only this one particular occasion? So it was only one particular occasion

602

Okay - maybe I misunderstood you last time but I did take notes and you say that you saw different, him with different girls Ah yeh

.

602

If th a t’s not the case th a t’s fair enough but uni

4 14

j(§ not the case no, he was wdth different girls but um the one he was stroking hes breast I always remember like you know

602

Okay th a t’s fine - and how may times do you think you would have visited when you had left the Home, I mean how many occasions?

H1 4

About 8 occasions, 8, 9 occasions

9

Tape Reference No.|

602

Page 10

174

4660

Over what sort of period would you say?

74

602

74 602 74 602 74 602 74 602 74

602 74 602 74 602 74 602

About a year And you quite welcomed back to the Home to do that Yeh And was that a regular thing for people were visiting? T h a t’s right They were allowed to do that They were allowed to visit Okay any idea w^hat year this w'ould have been? Um w ell I w as i n ^ ^ ^ i n ’73 and I w ent to| a b ou t’75 I suppose

lin ’74 so it wmuld have been

Okay 1975 Okay that is exactly accurate as you can get? Accurate as I can get yeh Okay and how old w'ere you w'hen you again? Um about 20, 21 Okay On the occasion that saw M r Wateridge wdth this other staff members w^ere in the room?

girl how many

74

None, none that I recall anyway, there w'ere none um his missus might have been there, I don’t know', yes he was married, yeh his missus might have been there but I can’t recall seeing her there

602

Okay what I am ti'ying to say that in the best of your knowledge was he the only adult staff m em ber there?

74 602

He w'as the only adult staff member there Okay if you had to, looking back if you had to give me a measurement of the room that he w'as in with this girl, what size room would you say it w'as?

74 Um about 20ft across

10 10

Page 11

Tape RcferciKe No]

602

4661

By? Ah 15ft

602

Okay and where was the snooker table in comparison

BIB It was, as soon as you walk in the door, there w'as a snooker table and then you cut through the bookcase to get to the lounge like you know' 602

Right so it w'as almost like two different little section rooms Like 2 little section rooms yes

602

Right I imclerstand and the size of the snooker table, can you give me It was a fully fledged snooker table

602

Right was that snooker table in a separate room to w'here you w'ere sitting on the chairs? Yeh

602 m 4

Okay fine its just for my own piece of mind

thank you

Yes

602 You also mentioned something else about M r Wateridge and a member of stafl, do your recall that, in the tree house? HIB Ah no that w 'a s ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ |in the tree house, It 602

It W'as I

said

B w 'a s it?

174 It W'as I 602 74

Okay that may have been my fault because w'e were Yeh

602

We W'erc outside sitting outside and its difficult just to w'rite some of this dow'n, and the traffic w h at have you um okay. Can you think of anything else in relation to Mr W atcridge that you haven’t told me?

174

Um not that I know' of, I can’t recall i ^ ^ i s a l o i ^ i m e ago like you know' . I remember him picking me up w 'heii^^^^y8^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ''a n away and I got in touch w'ith a w om en’s address and she let us use the phone like you know', that is the first time I met M r W ateridge

602

Oaky so is it fair of me to say then that you w'ere actually living in the Plome he w asn’t there at that time?

74

No he w'asn’t there at that time

11 11

Page 12

Tape Rd'ereiice No

602

74 602

4662

Okay did you ever speak to M r Wateridge wheo you were at the Home visiting

Yes Can you remember what

,

No I just asked him if lie could g e t ^ ^ H ^ j ^ ^ l o w n to the lounge like you know, a s ^ H h a d accommodation know 602

Okay if there is nothing further you can say on this particular gentleman, I am going to turn this part of the tape off okay Yes okay, right its now five to

602

Eleven Right

602

I am going to turn the tape off

12 12

Case Ref: Exhibit No. No. of pages Tape Reference No:l

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH 174

SUMMERLAND POLICE STATION INTERVIEW ROOM ON FRIDAY 25^'^ JANUARY 2008 Tim e comm enced: 11:00

Tim e concluded: 11:45

=

174

This is a tape recording o f a w itness statem ent to be provided b y ^ ^ ^ m ^ ^ ^ ^ T h i s is tape num ber 2 this m orning. The interview has been recorded at Sum m erland Police Station, the tim e is 11:00am and the date is Friday 25^'' January 2008. I am a civilian officer 602 B rian C arter I d o n ’t h a v e any colleagues present in the room . Can you please state your M l nam e? 174

174

602

A gain, have you been know n by any other nam e? No

602

A nd y o u r date o f birth please

1955 602

A nd w here w ere you bom ?

m y

Jersey

602

A nd y o u r cuiTent occupation

602

W hich I currently believe you are cuiTentb

^ 74

I

602

currentl}j

B efore w e continue I ju st w ant to read over to you again the specific guidelines in w hich y o u r disclosure can be recorded. I w ill ask you sign this foim at the end o f the interview , the first one is the integral prom ise o f the interview ing officers and that states, T h e States o f Jersey Police re conducting an investigation into H istoric Institutional Child A buse. W e believe that you m ight be able to help us w ith our enquiries. E verything you say to us will b e on a p u rely voluntary basis, though we will

11

4664 Tape Reference No;

174

[e 2

ask you questions relating to the enquiry. W e w ill not prom pt you to say anything you do not w ish to say. W e will not coach you to say anything that are not your own words, our intention is to illicit the timth o f the m atter. Y ou do not have to tell us anything if you do not wish. The second part is the infom iation provider. I have not given any nam es or identified any places that are not purely w ithin m y own knowledge. The police have not forced m e to say anything I don't w ant to say or did not know before the police spoke with me. Again do you understand that? I understand 602

On your previous tape w e w ent through the sam e routine with this pro-fom ia, okay 1 will only ask you to sign the one at the end

174

Y eah

602

Just again at the beginning o f this tape, on W ednesday 23'^ January 2008 betw een 11:30 and 13:50 hours I m et you and I recorded details o f our conversation

174

Yes

602

In relation to the tim e you w ere in H aut de la G arenne Children's Hom e

^

Yes

602

T oday I have asked you to com e in so that we can do it fom ially on tape so that the transcripts can be t3q3ed up, you can read and sign them and sign the w itness statem ent to say that it is true and accurate. A gain w hen I say to you that please only give m e w hat you know as to be factual That's right

602

Please don't say anything you m ight

B 7 4 No 602

T hat you m ight think I w ant to hear, I have to rem ain totally independent in this enquiry and illicit the truth

^

Y eah

602

O kay-so i f you could give m e a little bit o f background please | 174 Tell me a little bit about your hom e life before you w ent into the H om e

174

I was living w ith a foster m other in St Clem ent's and um I w as locked in a room at night under the stairs and um if I done som ething w rong she used to get the boys to duck me in a bamel o f w ater like you know , you know the old cider baiuels, so um som eone got in touch w ith the authorities and I w as m oved to H aut de la Garemie.

602

O kay - w hat was the nam e o f this person, your foster parent? 483

2

4665 174

Tape Reference No:

602 483 602

Can you spell that please? 483

602

O kay and you said the boys, was that| yes

602

That used to dump

174

N o not I you know

602

O kay so she was a foster parent for]

■74

A foster parent

602

O kay and how old w ould you have been then

■Th

O h um w hen I w ent to the H om e I w as about 10 H, 11

602

O kay do you loiow anything about your natural parents?

t, they w ere a different fam ily, I was the only one on my own like

No 602 | ||4 602

R ight so you w ent into the H om e purely you w ere being abused by your foster parents Foster parents O kay tell m e a little bit about w hat schooling you w ent to then at the tim e you were w ent to the H om e Um St H elier Boys S econdary School

602

R ight so you actually started at St Helier Boys Secondary School

m

Y es

602

So you w ould have b een approxim ately 11 years o f age 11 years o f age yeah

602

O kay ju st tell m e a little bit in your ow n w ords, as I say w hat the H om e was like for you

■ ■■ It was a nightm are um rules and regulations like you know 602

O kay w hat do m ean b y a nightm are?

3

4666 174

Tape Reference No:

Hig

Well um w hat w ent on up there you loiow , it w asn't a happy place

602

Okay and can you tell m e the reason w h y it w asn't a happy place?

174

Ah the staff m ainly

602

Okay tell m e about the staff |w as m y ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ | a n d he gave m e a rough time w hen I w as up there you know

602

Okay can you give m e a little o f your thoughts on what

was like?

Um he changed like from one m inute to the next like you know, one m inute he w ould be happy and the next he would b e shouting at people um he used to throw a lighter to you if you w eren't concentrating you know 602

Can you describe this lighter?

Il 1 4

It's a ronsen veri um a ronsen veriflam e

602

O kay can you describe w hat that looks like to m e

4 14

Um it's a oblong and you fill the gas at th e side at the back o f the lighter

602

O kay and give m e som e description like inches how

m y

It was about 2 U 3 inches

602

A nd the w idth o f it?

4 14

Um about U o f an inch

602

A nd i f you had to put a w eight on it w hat it light, m edium or heavy w eight H eavyw eight

602

Y ou say he used to throw it at you Throw it at m e yeah

602

Yeah so w as it fair o f m e to say that he u sed to throw it at you

m

Yeah

602

D id it hit you?

d y

Yeah

602

W here w ould it have hit you?

4

4667 Tape Reference No:

174

gi4

On the head or the face

602

Right okay and w ould this be the sam e w ith the other boys

m

Yeah

602

Yeah okay and how often w ould he do that?

4 74

About once a w eek, once or tw ice a w eek yeah

602

So what, for him to have throw n his lighter at you w hat w ould you have had to have done?

I ^ l4

som ething trivial som ething he d id n ’t like you know

602

Okay if there is anything else a b o u t ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ f t h a t you can recall

HH

Um you w eren't allow ed to go to the toilet w hen you w ent to bed and you had to urinate in the shit in your bed otherw ise if you w ere caught in the toilet um he used to m ake you stand up all night in the conidors and you had to go to school, he w ould take your buss pass aw ay so you had to walk to school and uh and you w ould be late, you w ere put on lates and in the evening you w ashed up for everyone else

602

Okay um and you also m entioned som ething about w hen you got on hom e late from school about m ealtim es, w hat happened at m ealtim es?

I ^ 14 I didn't have any m eal 602

Right okay so w hat did you do w hen you couldn't eat

1^^

W e w ould w ait until w e w ent to bed and then w e w ould s c u n y dow n to the larder and eat w hatever w as there like you know , the door w as open

602

Okay so you say you had to pee and shit in your bed, how often to you think that happened to you?

1 ^ 14 Um about once a fortnight 602

Okay Ten days a fortnight yeah

602

Okay so having done that you m essed your bed, w hat w ould be the routine in the m orning w hen you w oke up and the sta ff knew o f that

1^^

They w ould strip the bed and put a plastic sheet over it um w hen I first m essed it up you know and um take m e dow nstairs to have a show er like so

602

O kay so w hat did the sta ff say to you? Um

5

4668 Tape Reference NoJ

174

602

If you can't recall anything, please say

m u

I can't recall an 3/thing no

602

A gainH i H l am just, I am trying to get the infonnation out o f you, I don't w ant to lead you an)w^here

m 4

No that's right yeah

602

But if you don't loiow anything. Just say you don't know

m 4

No I don't know , no

602

Its only that I am asking the questions ju t to get a bit m ore infonnation okay

■ ■■ yeah 602

W hen you say you shit and pissed in the bed w as that w ith your own know ledge, w as it always w ith your ow n Icnowledge that you knew you had to go and you couldn't get up

m 4

Yeah

602

Did you ever do that un-intentionally not know ing? Y eah I have done that not know ing yeah

602

W liich one w ould you have done?

m 4

Pissed the b ed

602

O kay - anything else you can tell m e about|

m 4

He used to throw you across the d o nnitory and um w hen you w ere w atching the new s you had to rem em ber w hat the captain’s chart w as on the w eather

602

O kay can you ju st explain that a little bit m ore?

■ ■■

Um you had to repeat w hat the m an at the new s desk said about the w eather otherw ise you used to get a clout across the head

602

R ight and w as that ju st to you or to all the boys

m 4

To all the boys yeah

602

So you have had to w atch the new s on television

m y

Y eah

602

T he w eather new s yeah

m 4

T he w eather new s yeah

6

4669 Tape Reference No:

174

602

And once that had finished w hat did he do exactly again?

■ ■■

He used to call you and say right what was on the captain’s chart, it was called the captains chart in those days you know

602

Right okay

■ ■■

And you had to w ord for w ord repeat w hat the anchor m an had said otherw ise you would get a clip across the head

602

Right and how m any people, how m any kids were involved in this?

m y

A bout 60

602

Right so did you know w hat type o f question was com ing your w ay or w as it

■ ■■

No not alw ays it w as ju st som ething from the news yeah

602

Right okay w hat happened i f you got it right? Ah he w ould be over the m oon

602

A nd if you got it w rong? A clip across the head

602

A nd w hen you say a clip across the head?

m y

A sm aek

602

Can you describe w hat type o f force w ould be used, how his hand w ould be w hen he did it?

Hm

Flat, a flat hand

602

R ight okay and w hat sort o f force w ould he use?

m y

Ah really hard

602

So on how m any occasions w ould he have done this to you? A h m any occasions too m an y to, um I can't rem em ber how m an y but um but it was a good few yeah

602

O kay and w hat was your actual response to being hit generally? B reakdow n and cry

602

So it w as fair o f m e to say then that was forceful enough to m ake you cry?

HI 3

Yeah

7

4670 Tape Reference No;

602

174

O kay you m entioned him throw ing you across the dorm itory; can you ju st describe the dorm itory for me? Right its up on the first floor overlooking the B ay o f Grouville, the window like and there w ere 2 dom iitories, m ine was the first dom iitory and had a locker and bed and that was it

602

Okay w hat w ere the floors like etc?

m 4

They w ere lino and highly polished like a n d ^ ^ ^ ^ l used to get hold o f you and chuck you on the m at and you'd go through the next dorm itory like you know

602

O kay w hen you say the m at can you ju st describe w hat sort o f size m at and w hat type o f m at it was

■ ■■ It w as about four foot long by two three foot w ide and you had to be careful w hen you trod on it otherw ise ju st w aking you could slip on, break your leg like yon know 602

O kay and that was because of, due to w hat?

8 13

Urn

602

Slippery floor, the floor w as slippery underneath w as it?

m y

Y eah, slippery underneath

602

So w hen he grabbed you and through you on to the m at how did he gi'ab you?

y iy

G rabbed m e from behind

602

But how , w here w ould his bands be?

y iy

Um its hard to say you loiow , I can't rem em ber

602

I am ju st trying to get out o f you really you

Q7S

From the shoulders, s o n y

602

From the shoulders

yyy

From the shoulders

602

A nd then how does he get you to the m at, does he ju st

from the point he grabs you how he grabs

Just tlirow s you on the m at 602 8 74 602

L iterally throw s you onto the m at On to the m at w ould go over onto the next bit, into the next dorm itory like you know W hich is how far away?

8

4671 Tape Reference N o |

174

H7 4

Um about 10 feet I suppose

602

So w hen you hit the m at, w ere you standing, sitting, lying down, falling down.

| ||H

Lying down, lying down yeah

602

So is it fair o f m e to say then, i f I am w rong then tell me, he has actually grabbed hold o f you by the shoulders and throw n you onto the m at T hrow n m e onto the m at, yeah

602

So w hat he has hit the m at?

I H j l H it the m at yeah 602

Y ou have ju st slipped thi'ough ten feet

| ||U

C oughing, into the next d o nnitory yeah

602

O kay and w ould that be the sam e w ith other kids

m

Y eah

602

C an you rem em ber who w ere in your donnitories when you slept obviously

m 4

Y eah

602

C an you tell m e who you shared w ith? ^nd 1 can't rem em ber the bloke, the boy that was in the m iddle bed, I can't rem em ber him

602

O kay

4 74

It's a blank

602

O kay w ould these boys have been subjected to the sam e sort o f treatm ent as you?

4 74

Y'eah

602

O kay - you m e n tio n e d w h e n w e sp o k e . I'll ask you ju st in case it com es back to you, anything else a b o u t ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ 4 ^

H H

I can't rem em ber now, it's a long tim e ago you know , um oh yeah he used to take us to the show er room like you know , and I alw ays thought, I think I told you, he was a latent g ay you know and he used to m b your chest and your neck to see if you had w ashed like you Icnow. W ell I don't know i f that's tm e or not you know b u t there you go

602

W hat do you m ean you don't know if that is tm e or not?

H7 4

U m I don' know if he w as a latent gay or not like you know

9

4672 174

Tape Reference

602 Q

Okay w hat w as the feeling, how were you dressed w hen he did this? Naked

602

Right okay um and ju st describe again what he did

yyy

T o rub your chest and your neck to see if you

602

How did he m b your chest? W ith the flat o f his hand

602

Okay and w hereabouts on your chest? There

602

And w hen you say he m bbed it, what do you m ean b y m bbing?

174

Rubbed to see if you had showed or not like you know

602

Okay how w ould he, w hereabouts on your neck w ould he do this? On the side o f the neck

602

W hich part o f his h and w ould be on your neck? The flat hand

602

And what, h ow did you feel w hen he did that to you?

174

I used to shiver like you know

602

Okay and w hat sort o f age w ould you have been?

B7 9

H,

602

Okay did ever say an 3dhing to you, did he ever say an 3dhing to you w hen he was doing this

13

Ah he did bu t I can't rem em ber what the w ords w ere like you know 602

A nd w ould he do that in front o f the other kids?

174

Yeah

602

Okay did you see him do this to other Yeah

602

Y ou saw him do it to the others

10 10

4673 174

Tape Reference No;

The others 602

Okay if you had to say how m any tim es that happened to you? Ah dozens o f times

602

Okay w hen you took show ers and all that, was there always a m em ber o f sta ff present Yeah

602

Do you recall any other m em bers o f sta ff being present? or Mr

602

And how w ere they com pared to him ? Ah brilliant, they were b rilliant yeah, Mi-| 491 know

602

Jvas very intelligent m an like you

And you had no concerns from the other m em bers No, no

602

O kay that w as w hat you had told m e about which I didn't w ant to, um you also m entioned about, som ebody cam e in the dorm itory one night cam e in the w indow and t o o k ^ ^ B 2^ ^ ^ | out and m e and ran up to W illiam s' flat and W illiam s cam e dow n but h e couldn't catch them like you know , h e had a car dow n the road like.

602

O kay-can you go on ju st a b it m ore? Um so I told W illiam s w here a h ^ SB w as like you Imow w ith this b lo k e and h ^ w n t dow n the n e x t he w ent dow n, the next day we w ent dow n m e, Iand ah he pulled the blo k e over like you Icnow so he had to h a n d ^ S^ over

602

Okay- so tell m e a little bit a b o u ^ ^ H S^ ^ H I ^^lis m an, you m entioned som ething else, they'd know n each other hadn't they?

174

Y eah

602

I understand you said

179

Y eah

602

Y eah-so he has obviously com e to the H om e to get

0 602

D id you see him in the H om e t a k i n g J T^ ?

^

Yeah

11 11

4674 174

Tape Reference No:

602

W as| 121

Page 12

happy to go w ith him?

yeah 602

Okay - so what do think the tim e span betw een telling M r W illiam s this and when you went dow n the next day? Um there w as only about 5 m inutes w hen he took| 121 we ran dow n to W illiam s' flat

602

out the w indow like because

Right and you said the next day you w ent to get him W ent to get him yeah

602

So how m any, betw een the, how long betw een when you w ent to g e tH ^U next day, was it an hour, h a lf an hour? No about 12 hours

602

Oh right —so it was a fair tim e span A fair tim e span yeah [sniffing]

602

And I am right in saying w hat you said that they w ere seeing each other?

yyy

Yeah that's right seeing each other

602

They had been seeing each other

yyy

seein g each other

602

Do you rem em ber this m an's nam e?

QSQ

I can't rem em ber now um he rem inded m e you kno\^^ films, he w as done for being um fucking som eone in the toilets

602

Yeah

in the

And he lost his, lost his job as an actor over that. H e rem inded m e a bit o f him 602

How old w ould you have said he w as at that occasion? W liat the

602

This guy About 40

602

And how old would] 121

be

A bout 12, 13

12 12

4675 Tape Reference No:

602

174

Page 13

Right okay, and w here did you go the next day to g e t J §J ? Ah dow n C olom berie which is now the Royal Bank o f Canada, but it was a little shop there who used to sell jew ellery and w atches and that you know

602

Okay - and do you rem em ber w hat it w as called? 'As you like it’

602

O kay and do you rem em ber w hat you told m e on w hen we first met, because before we cam e in here you said that you got the nam e w rong, didn't you? Y eah that's right

602

You told m e a different nam e on

004

Yeah, G ently does it, it's a horse I used to w in on, laughing

602

Just to confirm that okay so I have recorded it as Y eah

602

And you did m ention it before we cam e h ere actually. Okay you m entioned som ething about, ah having a| Oh yeah he couldn't have ah he couldn't

602

from the

So you have obviously experienced if you had to explain to m e w hat you actually thought he was like and w hat he was all about, how would describe that? Oh he w as an anim al, he was an anim al you know , I used to have nightm ares w hen I left the H om e like w ith him like you know . I don't know w hy he was ever'chosen as Ibecause he was Just an anim al to the boys like you know

602

A nd w as he in the H om e during your w hole period there?

174

Y eah

602

W here about do know did he live on site, or o ffs ite ? He lived on um as you com e dow n the dorm itory, as you com e out o f the d o rm itory you go dow n the stairs and there's a c o m d o r and you turn right and there's a yard and you go up the fire escape up the top that w as his flat like you know

602

W ith him there?

174

Yeah

13 13

4676 Tape Reference No;

602

174

Yeah how was she? Ah she was sound

602

Y eah Nice w om an yeah

602

Okay was he, w hat you explained how he was, his behaviour did he do that in front o f the other m em bers o f staff? Yeah

602

W ho w ould have seen him b eh alf like that towards the kids? M r ^ ^ l in fact he had an altercation w ith M r and he w ent for M r M r ^ ^ w a s no m atch for him you know

602

W hen you say he w as no m atch w hat do you m ean?

004

W ell he was s l e n d e i ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ l you know

602

Do you know w hat the altercation was over?

004

I can't rem em ber you loiow

602

Okay, you also m entioned about a train set?

was supper tim e

O h yeah that was up in the loft um M r^ Q I ^ B a s e d to take us up there like and we w ould plane, ah train set like you know and ah then he used to take us rabbiting at night like you know w ith a torch, w e w ould hold the torch and he'd shoot the rabbits like and how w ould you describe M r| 491

generally?

602

O kay

0S9

A nice m an

602

O kay - you m entioned about m eals if you didn't eat it on one particular day, I don't know if we had covered that this m orning N o, no

602

Can you ju st explain if you didn't eat your m eal? It would be kept for you th at next day and you had to eat it, they w ould reheat it for you. I d idn’t like vegetables so I used to go w ithout m o st w eeks you know

602

O kay so for exam ple i f you don't eat your m eal on a, i f you don't eat tonight's meal w hen w ould you get the m eal again? N ext, next day

14 14

Tape Reference No:

602

174

4677

W ould that be breakfast or evening? Evening m eal

602

Evening m eal?

004

Evening m eal yeah

602

Etow long w ould that go on for? A h a few days until you actually eat it because you w ere starving like you know

602

B ecause you did m ention that when s ta ff changed over that you could get You could get a full m eal like you know

602

Right so how often w ould the staff change duties then?

004

A bout m id-w eek they w ould change

602

So what w ould be, i f you had to explain how their duties w ere what, they changed m id­ week, w hat do you m ean m id-w eek, W ednesday W ednesday, yeah

602

So is it fair o f m e to sort o f say that i f th ey started on W ednesday A nd finished on a Friday, so it w as tw o days we had different staff like you Icnow

602

Every tw o days

074

Every tw o, different sta ff yeah

602

O kay - I f you w ere naughty, you explained that if you w ere naughty or w hat have you, you used to, they h ad a little annex, an area in the annex Yeah

602

Can you ju st describe that to m e please? It was a detention room w ith a fan in the wall and can't rem em ber if there w ere curtains but they used to lock you in, I got locked up for a fortnight I can't rem em ber w hat I had done now, I got locked up for a fortnight then ah they w ould bring m y m eals to m e you know

602 074 602

O kay and how w ould you be clothed in there? clothed yeah A nd how w ould you hygiene w ise, w hat w ould happen?

15 15

4678 Tape Reference No:

174

A h they w ould let us out in the m orning for a show er and w ash and som e o f the boys used to shave like you know 602

And um do you have any exercise at all?

QOQ

One hour a day

602

And w hat w ould that be? Ah w alking round the, ah w alking round the property

602

Okay and w ould you do that alone or w ith anybody? Ah that's w ith a m em ber o f staff

602

Right so how did they stop you running o ff again w hen you w ere w alking around?

j l4

Um

602

W ere you attached to anything or not or were you allow ed to w alk w ith a m em ber o f staff? W e were allow ed to w alk w ith a m em ber o f staff yeah

602

O kay but any other concerns about, any concerns about b ein g in there?

yyy

W ell it w as claustrophobic like you know , it was a sm all room , a sm aller than this room yeah

602

How w ould they check on you?

174

Ah there w as a flap w ith a shatter p ro o f glass like you know

602

A nd how m any m eals w ould have a day in there?

174

Ah two

602

W hich w ould be?

174

Ah dinner and tea

602

W liat about breakfast?

174

W ell I never got break fast there. I did w hen I was in the m ain building like you know

602

O kay you m entioned also the punishm ent you got if you w ere caught sm oking

174

Yeah they w ould tak e your bus pass aw ay and um you w eren't allow ed to go and see your friends or your fam ily during the w eek-end like you know

602

O kay and how, you m entioned about the older kids tow ards the younger kids, can you ju st describe that again to m e please

16 16

Tape Reference No:

174

4679

The older kids to the younger kids 602

Y eah you said som e o f them w ere bullies Yeah was yeah, the first w eek I was there he threw the fire extinguisher down, dow n the stairs and it clocked m e and I bashed m y head like you know so I was in the sick bay for about a week.

602

W hat did the sta ff do about it? N othing, nothing no, nothing w as done

602

W hy was that do you think? Dunno

602

O kay I think w e have covered m ost o f w hat w e discussed, okay is there anything that since we have spoken that has com e to m ind?

QQ4

No, no I can't rem em ber it's a long tim e ago like you know

602

O kay I am not going to go into all the nam es that you m entioned okay that w ere in the Hom e at the tim e because you got quite a good recollection o f names. Y ou m entioned a young lady that you had a relationship w ith

174 602

O kay can you ju st ell w hat that relationship involved?

yyy

Um shag, listening to m usic

602

W lien you say shagging w hat do you m ean b y that?

QQQ Full, full blow n 602

yeah sexual intercourse

QOQ

Sexual intercourse

602

A nd how old w ould you have been then? A bout 12, 13

602

A nd h ow old w ould she had been then?

174

A bout the sam e age

602

Can you tell m e w here this took place? Um w e used to go dow n G orey back o f the castle like you know , the little bay there

17 17

4680

174

Tape Reference No:

602

Okay w ould the staff had know n what was going on?

174

I think so but they turned a blind eye like you know

602

W hen you say you think so, what m akes you think that? used to sm ile at m e when I used to com e back from the beach

602

Did you have to speak to him about it, did he ask you anything or No, no

602

Okay there is only one other thing, you m entioned M r| the Hom e yeah?

who was a kid in

Yeah 602

W hen you last saw him at a certain tim e and he m ade a com m ent about the Home, can you ju st explain that? He said that they are putting, he says I w atch Bergerac he says if I had been there he says I w ould have put a bom b and blow n the place up

602

Okay and w hat do you think he m eant by that? W ell he had nightm are h im se lf you know

602

Okay do you know a n ^ h in g else about, how he w as treated and that? H e had the sam e treatm ent as m e yeah

602

O kay I got confused on the first tape about t h i n g ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ | and the tree A h yes

602

Can you ju st explain that for m e? I was clim bing up the tree and (indistinct) on the rope like you know and this bird popped out sem i nude like you know and had goosed her like you know w hat I m ean, he was a right C asanova, he had about three w om en, four w om en on the go like you know, I

602

W hat w as h er nam e?

174 602

Is this after he left the H om e w hen he was officially old enough to have sex with her

174

N o w hen he w as at the H om e

602

Oh right ju st go into th at a little bit

18 18

46 81

174

Tape Reference No:

174

Yeah he goosed som e w om an and he caught t h e ^ ^ |l i k e you know, laughing, she'd been sleeping around like herself like you know

602

So how old w ould he have been then?

174

Urn suppose about com ing to the end o f m y stay at H aute de La Garenne, about 15 I suppose

602

Okay these w ere people not w orking at the H om e though?

174

No, they w eren't

602

You say in the tree, w as that a staff m em ber?

174

I think so yeah

602

W hen you say you think so how Well r think she w a s ^ ^ ^ B am not too sure, she was either| like you know , a m em ber o f staff

602

D efinitely a m em ber o f staff?

074

M em ber o f s ta ff yeah

602

A nd h ow old w ould you say she was?

174

Or about 21, 20, 21 m aybe a bit less

602

O kay and w hen you say she was sem i-clothed, w hich part o f her was

174

The top w as, she w as naked from the top

602

O kay do you actually rem em ber her from inside in the H om e, w orking in the H om e or not?

174

Yeah, I can't rem em ber her nam e now, it's a long tim e ago like you knoAV and so m any things happened you know up there

r \r \

T

1

,

.

1

1

1

-

.

,

_

_ _

ooz

wKay i m ean our you are m ore m an nappy tnat sne w as a m em ber o l stattY

174

Yeah

602

I H w o u ld

174

A bout 14, 15

602

A nd w here w as this tree you clim bed, w here about

have been, h ow old do you reckon w hen he was

Urn go p assed the sw im m ing pool and i f s in the com er, the field m akes a co m er and there w as a tree there w ith a tree house like you know

19 19

Tape Reference No; I

4682

174

602

O kay I show ed you a photograph

yyy

Yeah I didn't recognise it was m e

602

The photograph was actually a series o f photographs that w e w ere given okay

QQQ Y eah 602

y

And ju st for the purpose o f the tape the exhibit num ber is It's a w orking copy o f a photogi'aph that som ebody had given us and the one, you looked through the photographs yeah

602

And you recognised everybody in the photographs except for one person

174

That w as m e yeah

602

Y ou had to look very closely and I said that it was, I actually said it w as you because I could see its you

D7Q

Yeah

602

So I rem em ber you as a kid as well. Y ou got quite em otional, not em otional but

174

Just shut up for aw hile

602

Y eah you w ere quite shocked and very surprised and then realised it was you from |

174

Y eah

602

In the photograph

174

Y eah that's right

602

Can you Just ell m e a little bit o f background aboi

174

I used to go som e w eekends to the w ent o ff on holiday and they brought m e bac

602

Can you ju st spell the surnam e please?

602

Do you know where they are living now ? Ah she's still livin

and they

now. He was

20 20

4683 Tape Reference No:

602

174

Okay so I haven't got a lot m ore to say but if you had to look back at your tim e there and how this affected you, can you ju st in your ow n words ju st tell me w hat you thought o f your tim e living in the H om e and how it’s had an affect on you since It affected me greatly when I left like you know I alw ays, we were going to try and get a reunion going um in the 80's like you know the ones that had been up there but that fell through because m ost o f the people are living in ^ ^ ^ ^ | o r ^ ^ ^ ^ | o r you know , they are not here any m ore

602

But how , how do you feel about your tim e in the H om e? T enible, te n ib le yeah

602

Do you have any good m em ories o f the place? I had yeah C hristm as and when we w ent to on a two w eek holiday, it was great as I told cried his eyes out w hen he saw these young girls com ing in b are foot like you loiow, h e had never seen anything like that he have them I think it w as two and six each w hich was a lot o f m oney for a kids like you know I m ean w e w ere, its one thing we did have, w e w ere never short o f m oney, we alw ays had m oney like you know given to us

602

But generally the H om e, apart fi'om those odd occasions, how w ould you describe it? A h Hell

602

And looking back now , your life from, h ow have you got on in life since you left there?

174

Just take an y jo b I could like you know , um also I used to drink heavily so I used to lose m y g a ff and um split up with birds like you know so

602

W hy is that do you think?

174

The drinking, the drinking m ainly

602

But w hy did you go to drink

174

I saw D r F ogerty w hen he was alive and he said that um its m ost probably heredity because m y m other w as a raving alcoholic apparently so, and that's in the genes like you know , there you go

602

Okay can you blam e any o f your life in the H om e for the drink?

174

No, no I th in k it w as just, I think a lot o f it w as I used to think it was the H om e but it w asn't the H om e, even though I had bad m em ories o f it you know. I think I used to drink to get to acquainted with people you know w hat I m ean, in the pubs and that I used to find a lot o f the jobs that w ay you know w hen the drinking was cheap like. I rem em ber going d o w n ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ | l got sacked tfom one job and, [laughing], and I'd start next day w ith another bloke you know

602

W hen I called you up to speak to you on W ednesday m orning how w ere you after W ednesday, h ow did you feel?

21 21

4

602

4684

174

Tape Reference No: I

A h relief, relief that som eone else Icnew about it you Icnow and has taken, taken action like So you're quite happy now this investigation is (indistinct) into the H om e Yeah

602

H ave you had any thoughts on it in the past about it

0 0 4 Yes I did um, but I thought w here could I go and see som eone in authority that, who w ould look into it you Icnow 602

Y ou have never spoken to anybody about the H om e fom ially until m e

003

Yeah

602

Is that fair That's right yeah

602

A lot o f the people that you have m entioned that have gone on to different parts o f the w orld but w hat seem s to be one o f the general com m on denom inators with them , all the people that you m entioned I w ouldn't know

602

I m ean how m any o f them do you still see? I see about 3 or 4

602

Locally?

004

Locally yeah

602

A nd how have they got on in life since? B uggered up B uggered up yeah, buggered their life up.

^

O

A

T r/~\

^

1

1 /->1 T

1<-*■<«

ui paiLi'wUiai

Um

he's ah, he had a tough tim e up there

602

O kay have you ever discussed the H om e w i t h ^ ^ Q^ B ?

^3

Yeah

602

A nd w hat's his thoughts on it? A h terrible as well, he hated|

602

Ithe sam e as I did you know

A nyone else?

22 22

4685

174

Tape Reference No:

up there but that w as before m e like you know and we he had a talk in the 80's about it and he said som ething ought to be done about it you know but ju st let it slide 602

W here is he now?

yyy

Um he is w orking for, he?

602

Okay I think it'l

602

Did you say I He's dead

602

How did he die?

602

O kay unless there is som ething else I don't w ant to really start going too deep in

1 1 3 No 602

4

602

You know , I really ju st w ant to sort o f keep it, you know I understand w hat you have ju st said to m e this m orning w as not very pleasant, is there a n ^ h in g you ju st w ant to ju st to sum up ju st to finish, you know any w ords you w ant to say N ot really no, ju st that it w as dark tim e on m y b e h a lf when I stayed up there you know and I w ouldn't w ish it on any other child you know w hat I m ean, so I w as never sexually abused it was physical and m ental abuse I got fi-om them you know , especially W illiam s yeah and that's it O kay as I explained on this w e have used 2 tapes okay, should w e require you to go to couii on any o f the inform ation you provided, w ould you be prepared to do that? Yeah

602

Okay b efore I finish, are there any other concerns about any other sta ff m em ber or anything that you are aw are o f sound M r ^ ^ ^ ^ J w a s s o u n d , s ound, so was their wives like w e l l^ ^ ^ ^ B w a s single but he had a girlfriend like but they w ere sound

602

O kay do you ever keep in touch w itl N o 1 fell out w ith I too sure

602

years ago andl 120

I think is living ini

Istill I am not

O kay did you discuss the hom e w ith them ?

23 23

Tape Reference No.

174

4686 P age 24

No 602

O kay right the tim e now is Q uarter to tw elve

602

Q uarter to twelve, okay ju st that m y w atch is stopped I think. Okay it's a quarter to tw elve and I am going to turn o ff the tape, are you happy w ith that?

H lil

Y eah fine

24 24

10703 0 0/55 ];^AME: DATE OP BIPTH:

plage

op

birth

Jersey

HOME ADDEESS: ft. C.

rt-tj j j i . G _L OI'l :

REASON POP Gk RE : SGHOOLS:

3r.?TI3ED: YEo/LC, Confirmed 1966 Parents separated and mother homeless_^pip jgjjE ~_____ Parental Rights Order - Art. 83

D a TE

SGHOOL St. Clement St. Helier Boys

EMPLOYMENT:

DATE

EMPLOYER

28.12.70. Sept, 1971 3ct. 1971

PARENTS :

MOTHER

N a.ine Da,te & Place of Birth Address if d-ifferent from child Employer

Houffljife

Contact Tel. No . SIBLINGS

NiRiE

DATE a n d PL a GE OP BIRTH

6 & 120 247 & 248 Da t e

placement

2.2.56. ID.ID.56. 30.1.57. 13.2.57. 19.11.57. 7.6.58.

Elizabeth House. Boarded out with To mother at Boarded out wit^ Westaway Creche. Sacre Coeur. Boarded out with

26,10.67. 23.10.70. ■■70. 5.10.71. 28.1.72. 1.12.72.

IMoved to Haut de Boarded out with| Parental Rights 0 1JAYF Hostel. ^Boarded out with| JAYF Hostel.

483 483 483

1

Independent Jersey Care Inquiry

Historic Abuse Redress Scheme Documentation 174

Application Form and Supporting Documentation Consent of claimant was sought - but no response was received

1

States of-jersey Historic Abuse Redress Scheme - Application Form Established in respect of Historic Child Abuse suffered when in the Full-Time Residential Care of the States of Jersey: 9 May 1945 - 31 December 1994 The completion of this Application Form is required in order to consider your claim for financial compensation. Therefore, please take time to provide the requested information as accurately and as fully as possible. The States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozannes, may require additional information in respect of the content of this Application Form if considered necessary to evaluate and process your claim. If there is insufficient room for any answer. a separate sheet may be attached to this Application Form

1. Personal details Forenames:

174

Surname: Any former names or names by which known whilst in care: Current permanent address:

Contact telephone number: Date of birth:

1C76,S

Place of birth: i When submitting this Application Form, please provide certified copies of any two of the following: (a) passport: (b) driving licence; (c) birth certificate; (d) marriage certificate; (d) a recent utility bill; (e) any other official document confirming your identity

1

2

States ofJerSey 2.

Claimant's representative (if appointed)

Name of representative: L..c

u'c1 i'

Address of representative: I_cs veLL.€ I-, I em

lo c -ctc Qu & .L

h , Lcei -q 4C h 5.'€€

I a-

Relationship of representative to you: o

3.

c4 ri ,

rv O

''ci 6C,/

Details of care

Dates when in the full-time residential care of the States of Jersey:

19 19

1.

Cpe•'

Care Home(s) in question:

o'e C4 Gc(,'Qrir'?

Any relevant family background (if known): ()O

.:. : ...•..:..:: .::•. .... .. . ....

........... ..... .. .......

Names of any other children in care who were your friends or associates when in care: 162 347

2

3

States otJersev 4. Abuse alleged to have taken place

The following information is required to evaluate and process your claim- If there are events or matters you feel unable to commit to writing, please contact your representative or the States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozannes, in order to discuss how to proceed. Detail if lengthy may be set out in a separate sheet to be attached to this Application Form

Detail of abuse:

5 - I'h&5

111Cfv1

th'cii c4 fcce h$4I0 (4 c ux fi/.iji qcfc'Ss 7 c/eei-hi czr"1 iL5c) cJIlI1C/ (1- 5(c.1 0/ mE'aJ5:'J P1ecs --5ice pciKe (cckei q '-t ),,v / /e'1 (C t Date(s)/time period(s) of abuse: I C1 6 1 I C1 4 cp v'QcWl. cc4 tl 9 f(, " I tw rzo 6C4 /lóci) Perpetrator(s) of abuse: Any witnesses to the abuse: Ofh21 C/ P 1c'1f7) circJ a h 5. Complaints of abuse If you complained or confided in any other person at the time or shortly thereafter in relation to the abuse in question, please confirm to whom you complained or in whom you confided. what you advised them and of any action taken they or you took as a result: 3 4 States otJeise\ 6. Criminal proceedings Please confirm if you provided a statement IQ the States of Jersey police as part of the historic abuse inquiry: E I NO Please confirm if any previous police statements haveen provided in relation to the abuse to any police force at any time: YES I If YES, please specify the (approximate) date(s) of any statement(s) provided to the police: If YES, by submitting this Application Form you are giving your unconditional consent to the release of all such police statements to Mourant Ozannes in order to consider your claim. If NO, please explain the reason for not providing a statement to the police: Please confirm whether to your knowledge any of the persons named as abusers have been subject to criminal proceedings (whether found guilty or not) in any jurisdiction and give any detail known to you: Please confirm if you have ever given evidence in any criminal proceedings in relation to the abuse and if so state the Court and approximate date evidence was given: ('s. 4 5 States of Jersey 7. Criminal Injuries Compensation Board application/award Please confirm if you have previously submitted a claim for compensation in resp jEQt of historic child abuse to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in Jersey: YES / 0 If YES and you did submit a claim, please confirm the outcome and the amount of any compensation received by you: historic abuse inquiry: If YES, by signing this Application Form you are giving your consent to the release of all papers held by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in respect of your claim and the outcome of it. 8. Previous civil proceedings Please confirm if any previous civil proceedings have been threatened or commenced you or on your behalf against any party in relation to the allegations of abuse: : YES / NO If YES, please provide the details and the outcome: 5 6 States Of-Jersey 9. Claimants personal declaration By signing this Application Form, I acknowledge and confirm that: (a) I consent to the States of Jersey Police releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statement I have made in relation to an allegation of historical abuse; (b) I consent to any police authority releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statements made in connection with any alleged abuse; (c) I consent to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any claim submitted by me for financial compensation for any alleged abuse and any award made in my favour; (d) I consent to the disclosure of this application form to the States of Jersey Police and the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board; (e) I acknowledge and accept that in order for my claim to proceed, I may be required to meet with and discuss my claim with a psychiatrist in order that a psychiatric evaluation/report be prepared for the purposes of considering the compensation claim. I confirm that I agree to co-operate fully in such a report being prepared and provided to Mourant Ozannes and further agree that any material obtained pursuant to this application form may be shared with the psychiatrist preparing the report; (f) I agree that to the best of my abilities I will otherwise co-operate fully with Mourant Ozannes in providing information relevant to the determination of my compensation claim and to provide any relevant material in my possession to Mourant Ozannes for that purpose; (g) Save as explained above, I confirm that I have not received any form of damages or compensation from any source in respect of any of the allegations put forward in this Application Form; (h) I confirm that any records held by the States of Jersey, including social services records, hospital records, education records, medical records and mental health records will be reviewed as part of consideration of my claim; (i) I consent to the release of my private medical records (including general practitioner records and records held by any hospital or other medical practice, as I detail in the attached authority) to Mourant Ozannes for the purposes of assessing my claim and provide the attached authority for the purposes of obtaining those records from any medical practitioner(s). 7 States otJersey 10. Warning: Risk of criminal prosecution I understand and acknowledge that the provision by me of any information that I know to be untrue or false, or which I do not believe to be true, with a view to obtaining the payment of financial compensation under the scheme established by the States of Jersey is a criminal offence. As such, I am fully aware that, should the States of Jersey's advisers at any stage become concerned as to the truthfulness of any statements made by me, this Application Form and any other information supplied by me with a view to obtaining the payment of financial compensation will be referred to the States of Jersey Police for investigation and possible criminal prosecution. 11. Declaration of truthfulness By signing below, I HEREBY CONFIRM AND DECLARE the contents of this Application Form to be true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief. 174 Signed Claimant Signat (Print Name): Dated: 5ep+e1kC" In the Presence of Signature: CO3 X'(Z (c_4'lyeL'. (Print Name and Professional Qualification): c.A vZc ,fl5c-r9 -$ LIf°c1(ZT

All communications in respect of the Scheme should be addressed as follows:PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL HISTORIC ABUSE CLAIMS Mou rant Ozannes 18-22 Grenville Street St Helier Jersey JE4 8PX Tel: (00 44 1534) 676371 Fax: (00 44 1534) 676333 Email: historicclaims@mourantozannes.com

7

8

States of Jersey Authority for access to Medical Practitioner Records I, hereby authorise the Medical Practitioners listed below to release to Mourant Ozannes of 12 Grenville Street, St Helier, Jersey, JE4 8PX all of my records held by them to include, but not be limited to, copies of all consultation notes, hand written notes, computer records, test results, imaging results and any other records held by the medical practitioner. I understand that the request for all records will include everything held by my medical practitioner whether the medical practitioner considers them relevant to the allegations that I am making or not, so that a full medical history is known.

174

Signature: Print Name and Address:

Date of Birth: Names of both past and present medical practitioners that you have been registered with since birth:

Date A

copy or tnis autnority snail e cleemea to nave me same autnority as tne original. 8

9

Case Ref:

Signatures

Exhibit No. No. of pages

ipagcs

Ta p e Reference No: BC/2

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH 174

INTERVIEW ROOM, ROUGE BOUILLON POLICE STATION ON FRIDAY 25 111 JANUARY 2008 10:30AM 602 = Brian Carter 174

174

=

This is a tape recording of a witness statement provided to be by This interview is being recorded at Suinerland Police Station. The time is 10:30 hours and today's date is Friday 25th January 2008. I am a civilian. , officer, an investigator 602 Brian Carter, I don't have a colleague present today for this interview. Can you please state your full name? 174

174

602 Have you been known by any other name? 174

No

602 Okay and your date of birth please 2

174

955

602 And where were you born? 174

.Jersey

S

602 Are you currently working 174

No 6020kay - before we can continue I just want to read over to you the specific guidelines in which your disclosure can be recorded. I will ask you sign this form at the end of the interview. The first one is an integral promise of the interviewing officers and that states that 'The States of Jersey Police are conducting an investigation into Historic Institutional Child Abuse. We believe

10

Tpc Reference No

174

Page 2

that you might be able to help us with our enquiries. Everything you say to us will be on a purely voluntary basis, though we will ask you questions relating to the enquiry. We will not prompt you to say anything you do not wish to say. We will not coach you to say anything that are not your own words, our intention is to illicit the truth of the matter. You do not have .to tell us anything if you do not wish. Do you understand that? 174

Hmm 602 The second is the information provider, I have not given, which relates to me, 'I have not given any names or identified any places that are not purely within my own knowledge. The police have not forced me to say anything I don't want to say or did not know before the police spoke with me' Do you understand that 174 174

Icloyeh

rd 602 Can we just confirm that on Wednesday 23 January 2008 between 11:30 hours and 13:50 hours myself and you.sat down and discussed the Home 174

Yes that's right

602 Can you also confirm that on that morning when we spoke that I did not lead you in anyway? 174

No that's right

602 And that everything that you told me was from your own knowledge? 174

My own knowledge yes

602 Are you happy with .that? 174

Yes

602 Okay - what I would like to do today is break this down into two separate interviews for want of a better word. You mentioned certain names to me on Wednesday morning, really I would like just to cover a certain area. You spoke about Mr Wateridge, okay 174

Yes 602 As part of the whole shebang the other morning. On this occasion and on this particular tape, I just want to speak about Mr Wateridge. We will also do a following tape relating to other members of staff, and the lifestyle you had in the Home. Are you happy with that? 174

Yes

602 Okay - Can you just please go over in your own words, giving me as much detail as you can remember, urn what you can recall of Mr Wateridge

11

174

T p € Rcfcrencc N

174

Pa

187 Urn - Well I got in touch with ecause he had run away from the Home and he had a job to go to and I said to him you will starve to death you because it was a week iii hand money, like you know and that's when I first met Mr Wateridge. He picked 187 up

602 Okay right - can you tell about how old you would have been at that time? 174

602 And how old would have 174

187

been at?

17

602 Okay and maybe I just should have introduced you a little bit more. Can you just tell me what year or how old you were when you went to like in the Children's Home, known as Haut de la Garenne 174

1967

602 Right and you left at? 174

1970

602 Right so approximately what age would you have been when you went into the Home 174

11, 12 - something like that

602 Right and you left at approximately at? 174 When

I was 15,

602 Okay so what you're talking about Mr Wateridge is that you had been in the Children's Home 174

Yuh

602 You had left the Children's Home 174

Yuh and I went to see

ho were up there

602 Okay I will come on to that - okay so it is fair-for me to say that you left the 187 Home. 1-low did you know at the time? 174

Because we shared dormitories together like you know at the Home

602 Okay right going back to what you were saying then with the Home he had run away 174

187

he was out of

Yes

602 And if I am right in saying is that you saying that he had nothing to eat and was coming back to the Home, yell

12

Tape Reference No:

174

174

Page 4

Yes

602 Okay so just tell me what happened from then 174

it was house, I pressed I phoned up the Home from a private address up the buzzer and I asked the woman if! could use the telephone, you know. So I 187 up and phoned up and Mr Waterid g e was on duty so he came to pick dropped me off at my foster mother's like you know, that is the first time I met Mr Wateridge.

602 Okay so it is fair to say you didn't know him from the Home .but that was the first occasion 174

First occasion

on you mentioned 602 Right okay - so go 174

were up at the Home and I used to go and visit them, most weekends like, sometimes during the week, sometimes at the weekend and that's when I got to know Mr Wateridge a bit more

602 Okay so what was the time difference between up to the Home? 174

187

and him going back

Urn - going back to the Home when 187

602 You said you knew 174

Yes

602 You met Mr Wateridge for the first time and you used to go and see

174 Yes

that's right

602 Can you just tell me who 174

C

120

names are?

6

602 So after the first meeting with Mr Wateridge and you went up to the Home afterwards. Was there a long period between that? 174

D About 2 years I think

602 Okay I mean are you sure on that? 174

I am not sure, the times, its long ago anyway so I am not too sure, but I would say about 2 years

602 Okay so as you know it is very important so if you are not sure of something, just say you are not sure of something, especially dates

13

T2pe Reference No:

174

174

e5

Yes

602 Because we do appreciate it is a long time ago 174

Yes

602 But I have also got a duty to ensure that you're view is balances on all this as well. Do you understand that? 174

Yes

602' Right so you explained that you used to go and visit what your routine would be when you would go and visit where you would see them 174

tell me nd -

Urn I would go up to the senior sifting room

602 Yeli 174

here were a few girls there

602 Yeh 174

And I found it strange about Mr Wateridge because he was kissing and cuddling the girls like you know

602 Okay - just carry on I don't want to stop you 174

I saw him caress one girl's chest like you know and I thought it was a strange thing that a member of staff doing that you know. That's all I can recall on that

602 Okay so can you just give me some idea, did you know the person he was caressing? 174

o I don't know 602 Okay can you give me an age of a how she would have been approximately? 174

15, 16

602 Okay and where about did all this take place? 174

in the sitting room on a chair, she was sitting on his knee like you know

602 Okay and how was she sitting on him? 174

At right angles to him

602 Okay so what type of chair was it first of all? 174

Urn it was a like a harris tweed chair

14

Tape Reference No:

174

Pane 6

602 Okay was it a single chair or double chair? 174

Single chair

602 Okay we are sitting here in office chairs, is it a similar type chair-to this? 174

Similar, similar yeh

602 Okay and what was she doing? 174

Urn I can't remember what she was doing though, but she was happy anyway

602 And tell what he was doing exactly 174

He was caressing her fondly her

602 Right can you explain what you meant by caressing? 174 He

was stroking her chest and kissing her on the cheek

602 Okay and what type of kiss would that be? 174

D A long kiss, yeh

602 Okay and when you say he was caressing her chest, how was he doing that? 174

With his hand 602 Fine okay and can you just explain to me, I am trying to get to how his position was to her for him to be caressing, you know. Can you give just a bit more detail? 174

Urn he was sitting down on the chair and she was sitting on his lap 602 Okay right and she was parallel before to me 174

Right angles

602 Sorry okay so where would his left arm would have been for example? 174

Over her shoulder

602 Right and where would his hand have been? 174

On her chest

602 Okay what about his hand, ri ght arm? 174

I can't remember now, urn. I found it strange anyway that lie was doing that you know, being a member of staff do you know what I mean

602 Okay Can you descried this girl, can you reriiember what she looked like?

15

Tape Reference N

174

174

Page 7

She had blonde hair, blue eyes, about

5" 31,

511415

602 What makes you recall the blue eyes? 174

Urn because I was looking at him when I was talking to

ike

602 Okay how far away would you have been from him? 174

602 So you were reasonably close then 174

Reasonably close then, yes

602 Okay could you hear any conversation at all between them? 174

Urn they were talking like you know but I didn't make heads or tails of it like you know

602 Okay so you say that he had his hand on her breast yeh, Can you describe the shape of his hand when it was on her breast? 174

Flat, it was a flat hand

602 Okay and the end of her breast for example where would it have been in comparison to the flat of his hand? 174

Underneath 602 So can you explain that a bit more? 174

Underneath his hand, the breast was underneath his hand when he was stroking it 602 What part of her breast was he touching then? 174

The whole part

602 Yes 174

The whole part yes

602 Okay - I mean if you are sure about any of these questions, please say so 174

That's right yes

602 I don't want to put words - but I need to try and extract the information that you have from you 174

Okay 602 So I have got my hand open now okay this his hand, which hand did you say again

16

174 Ta pe Reference No:

174

Page 8

The right hand

602 The right hand 174

Right hand yeh

602 'Where would her breast have been compared to m' hand? 174

In the middle 602 So could you just show me? So it is fair of me to say then that he had the palm of his hand open and it was over the whole of her breast? 174

Over the whole of her breast 602 Can you describe what sort of size breast she would have had? 174

They were small what I can remember like you know

602 Okay 174

She wasn't buxom like you know

602 Okay so you say she had blond hair 174

Blond hair yes

602 What sort of length would her 174

Collar length

602 Ok, Urn what were the other people in the room doing whilst he was doing this? 174

They were playing music

602 Okay and you can just describe the room to me? 174

First of all when you walked through the door, there was a snooker table and then there's like an open bookcase where you walk through the middle into the sitting lounge you know, and there is a telly and record player urn on a plinth if you understand what that means, l)C0PlC were playing music and listening to the television

602 Okay and were there any other children in this room, sort of observing or did the)' just keep getting on with their like normal 174

Just getting on like normal, yeh

602 Is it fair of me to say then that his actions with this particular female did not really disturb all the other children, they didn't take any notice of what was happening

17

Tape Reference No:

174

174

Page 9

No they didn't take any notice. They were too busy dancing and listening to the music like you know

602 So you mentioned you thought that inaudible didn't think it was right. Can you just explain to the what you mean by that 174

Well I was young at the time but I still thought that there was a sexual motive there you know 602 Right okay 174

I mean I was only young myself like you know so I didn't know what relation there was between him and the girl like you know 602 Flow old would you say he was then 174

Oh its hard to say, forties about mid-forties something like that

602 Okay so is it fair of rue to say that it was obviously, it was apparent that she was a young girl? 174

Ych

602 She wasn't a very, what I am trying to say in your eyes, I appreciate that he was a staff member and he would haveknown the age group, could you personally tell that she was a child? 174

Yeh I could ych

602 Okay had you seen this type of action from Mr Wateridge with other people when visiting? 174

No, No

602 So it was only this one particular occasion? 174

So it was only one particular occasion

602 Okay - maybe I misunderstood you last time but I did take notes and you say that you saw different, him with different girls 174

Ali yeh

602 If that's not the case that's fair enough but urn 174

Its not the case no, he was with different girls but urn the one he was stroking her breast I always remember like you know

602 Okay that's fine.— and how may times do you think you would have visited when you had left the Home, I mean how many occasions? 174

About 8 occasions, 8, 9 occasions

18

174 -

Tape Reference No

Page 10

602 Over what sort of period would you say? 174

602 And you quite welcomed back to the Home to do that 174

Yeh

602 And was that a regular thing for people were visiting? 174

That's right 602 They were allowed to do that 174

They were allowed to visit

602 Okay any idea what year this would have been? 174

Urn well I was i about 1 75 I suppose

in '73 and I went to

in 1 74 so it would have been

602 Okay 174

1975

602 Okay that is exactly accurate as you can get? 174

Accurate as I can get yeh -

602 Okay and how old were you when you again? 174

Urn about 20, 21

602 Okay On the occasion that saw Mr Wateridge with this blond girl how many other staff members were in the room? 174

None, none that I recall anyway, there were none urn his missus might have been there, I don't know, yes he was married, yeh his missus might have been there but I can't recall seein g her there

602 Okay what I am trying to say that in the best of your knowledge was he the only adult staff member there? 174

He was the only adult staff member there

602 Okay if you had to, looking back if you had to give me a measurement of the room that he was in with this girl, what size room would you say it was? 174

Urn about 20ft across

19

174

Ta p e Reference N

Page 11

602 By? 174

Ah lSft

602 Okay and where was the snooker table in comparison 174

It was, as soon as you walk in the door, there was a snooker table and then you cut through the bookcase to get to the lounge like you know

602 Right so it was almost like two different little section rooms 174

Like 2 little section rooms yes

602 Right I understand and the size of the snooker table, can you give me 174

It

was

a fully fledged snooker table

602 Right was that snooker table in a separate room to where you were sitting on the chairs? 174

Yeh

602 Okay fine its just for my own piece of mind - thank you 174

Yes

602 You also mentioned something else about Mr Wateridge and a member of staff, do your recall that, in the tree house? 174

Ah no that was

602 It was 174

-the tree house, It was

I said

was it?

It was

602 Okay that may have been my fault because we were 174

Yeb

602 We were outside sitting outside and its difficult just to write some of this down, and the traffic what have you urn okay. Can you think of anything else in relation. to Mr Watcridge that you haven't told me? 174

Urn not that I know of, I can't recall it was a long time ago like you know. I 187 remember him picking me up when ran away and I got in touch with a women's address and she let us use the phone like you know, that is the -first time I met Mr Wateridge

602 Oak)' so is it fair of me to say then that you were actually living in the Home he wasn't there at that time? 174

No he wasn't there at that time

20

Ttpe Reference No

174

Pape 12

602 Okay did you ever speak to Mr Watericige when you were at the Home visiting 174

Yes

602 Can you remember what 174

No I just

asked him if he could get down to the lounge like you know, as had accommodation upstairs like you kxow

602 Okay if there is nothing further you can say on this particular gentleman, I am going to turn this part of the tape off okay 174

Yes okay, right its now five to 602 Eleven 174

Right

602 1 am going to turn the tape off

21

Form MG] 1(T) Page 1 of

STATES OF JERSEY POLICE WITNESS STATEMENT Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jersey) Law 1998 Statement of:

174

Age if under 20: OVER 20 (if

over 20 insert 'over 20')

Occupation:

This statement (consisting of I page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true. Signed:

174

Date: 29/01/2008

When an injury results from an incident, the following should be completed "In the event of the victim of this crime claiming compensation through the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, I hereby authorise the States of Jersey Police to release a copy of my statement to the board." Date: 29/01/2008 Signed

174

In the case of witnesses who produce exhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the witness statement MUST contain the following endorsement:-

"I am employed as......at .......As such, part of my responsibilities includes making witness statements on behalf of ....... .I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of .......These records may be either paper based or computer based, which have been subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to ........and were compiled, at every stage by staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied." Signed: 2004(1)

174

Signature Witnessed by:

NEFINTWO" IS to 9 DI

22

174

Continuation of Statement of

Form MG I (T)(CONT) Page 2 of 2

Date: Signed: Recorded by: DC285 SZTYBER-OMER Commenced at 1025 hrs on 29/01/2008 and Concluded at hrs on 29/01/2008

I am the above named person and I reside at the address known to the Police. On Friday 25th January 2008 I provided a witness statement which was recorded on one audio tape. Today Tuesday 29th January 2008, I have read and signed each page of the following transcripts and I can say it is a true and accurate account of my audio disclosure. I have also read and signed the above endorsement relating to these transcripts being tendered in evidence. Audio Tape I exhibi

consisting of 12 pages - Transcripts

174 Signed 2004(1

Signature Witnessed by:

23

Case Ref:

Signatures

Exhibit No. No. of pages

174

Tape Reference No BC/

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH BRIAN CARTER INTERVIEW ROOM, ROUGE BOUILLON POLICE STATION ON FRIDAY 25T11 JANUARY 2008 602 = Brian Carter 174

=

174

This is a tape recording of a witness statement to be provided by This is tape number 2 this morning. The interview has been recorded at Sumerland Police Station, the time is 11:00am and the date is Friday 25th January 2008. I am a civifian officer 602 Brian Carter and that there aren't any other colleagues present in the room. Can you please state your full name 174

174

602 Again, have you been known by any other name? 174

No

602 And your date of birth please 955

174

602 And where were you born? 174

Jersey

602 And your current occupation 174

602 Which I currently believe you are currently unemployed 174

am currently unemployed

602 Before we continue I just want to read over to you again the specific guidelines in which your disclosure can be recorded. I will ask you sign this form at the end of the interview, the first one is the integral promise of the interviewing officers and

24

174 Tape Reference No

Page 2

that, The States of Jersey Police are conducting an investigation into Historic Institutional Child Abuse. We believe that you might be able to help us with our enquiries. Everything you say to us will be on a purely voluntary basis, though we will ask you questions relating to the enquiry. We will not prompt you to say anything you do not wish to say. We will not coach you to say anything that are not your own words, our intention is to illicit the truth of the matter. You do not have to tell us anything if you do not wish. The second part is the information provider. I have not given any names or identified any places that are not purely within my own knowledge. The police have not forced me to say anything I don't want to say or did not know before the police spoke with me. Again do you understand that 174

I understand

602 On your previous tape we went through the same routine with this proforma, will only ask you to sign the one at the end okay I 174

Yeah

23rd January 2008 602 Just again at the beginning of this tape, on Wednesday between 11:30 and 13:50 hours I met you and I recorded details of our conversation

174

Yes

602 In relation to the time you were in Haut de la Garenne's Children's Home 174

Yes

602 Today I have asked you to come in so that we can do it formally on tape so that the transcripts can be typed up, you can read and sign them and sign the witness statement to say that it is true and accurate. Again when I say to you that please only give me what you know as to be factual 174

That's right

602 Please don't say anything you might 174

No

602 That you might think I want to hear, I have to remain totally independent in this enquiry and illicit the truth 174

Yeah

602 Okay - so if you could give me a little bit of background please little bit about your home life before you went into the Home 174

174

Tell me a

I was living with a foster mother in St Clement's and urn I was locked in a room at night under the stairs and urn if I done something wrong she used to get the boys to duck me in a barrel of water like you know, you know the old cider barrels, so urn someone got in touch with the authorities so I was moved to Haut de La Garenne

25

Page 3

174

Reference No:

602 Okay - what was the name of this person, your foster parent? 174

483 483

602 174

483

602 Can you spell that please? 174

483

602 Okay and you said the boys, was that 174

H

es

602 That used to dump you 174

o not h like you know

hey were a different family, I was the only one on my own

602 Okay so she was a foster parent for t 174

A foster parent for

602 Okay and how old would you have been then 174

h urn when I went to the Home I was about 10

'/2,

11

602 Okay do you know anything about your natural parents? 174

No

602 Right so you went into the Home purely you were being abused by your foster parents 174

oster parents

602 Okay tell me a little bit about what schooling you went to then and the time you were going to the Home 174

Urn St Heller Boys Secondary School

602 Right so you actually started at St Helier Boys Secondary School 174

Yes

602 So you would have been approximately 11 years of age 174

1 years of age yeah

26

Tape Reference No

174

Page 4

602 Okay just tell me a little bit in your own words, as I say what the Home was like for you 174

It was a nightmare urn rules and regulations like you know

602 Okay what do mean by a nightmare? Well urn what went on up there you know, it wasn't a happy place

174

602 Okay and can you tell me the reason why it wasn't a happy place? 174

) Ah the staff mainly

602 Okay tell me about the staff Williams was my Housemaster and he gave me a rough time when I was up there you know

174

602 Okay can you give me a little of your thoughts on what Mr Williams was like? 174

Urn he changed like from one minute to the next like you know, one minute he would be happy and the next he would be shouting at people urn he used to throw a lighter to you if you weren't concentrating you know

602

Can you describe this lighter?

174

It's a ronsen urn a ronsen veriflame

602 Okay can you describe what that looks like to me 174 mi

it's a oblong and you fill the gas at the side at the back of the lighter

602 Okay and give me some description like inches how 174 It

was about 2 1/z 3 inches

602 And the width of it? 174

) urn about ¼ of an inch

602 And if you had to put a weight on it what was it like medium or heavy weight 174

Heavyweight

602 You say he used to throw it at you 174

hrow it at me yeah

602 Yeah so was it fair of me to say that be used to throw it at you 174

Yeah

27

174 Tape Reference No:

Page 5

602 And it hit you? 174

Yeah

602 Where would it have hit you 174

On the head or the face

602 Right okay and would this be the same with the other boys 174

Yeah

602 Yeah and how often would he do that? 174

About once a week, once or twice a week yeah

602 So what, for him to have thrown his lighter at you what would you have had to have done? 174

Something trivial he just didn't like you know

602 Okay if there is anything else about Mr Williams that you can recall 174

Urn you weren't allowed to go to the toilet when you went to bed and you had to urinate in the skit in your bed otherwise if were caught in the toilet urn be used to make you stand up all night in the corridors and you had to go to school, be would take your buss pass away so you had to walk to school and uh and you would be late, you were put on lates and in the evening you washed for everyone else

602

Okay urn and you also mentioned something about when you got on home late from school about mealtimes, what happened at mealtimes?

174

I didn't have any meal

602

Right okay so what did you do when you couldn't eat

174

We would wait until we went to bed and then we would scurry down to the larder and eat whatever was there like you know, the door was open

602

Okay so you say you had to pee and shit in your bed, urn how often do you think that happened to you?

174

Urn about once a fortnight

602 Okay 174

Ten days a fortnight yeah

602 Okay so having done that you messed your bed, what would be the routine in the morning when you woke up and the staff knew of that

28

174 Tape Reference No:

174

Page 6

They would strip the bed and put a plastic sheet over it urn when I first messed it up you know and urn take me downstairs to have a shower like so

602 Okay so what did the staff say to you? 174

Urn

602 If you can't recall anything, please say 174

I can't recall anything no

602 Again R 174 am just, I am trying to get the information out of you, I don't want to lead you anywhere 174

o that's right yeah

602 But if you don't know anything, just say you don't know 174

No I don't know, no

602 Its only that I am asking the questions just to get a bit more information okay 174

Yeah

602 When you say you shit and pissed in the bed was that with your own knowledge, was that always with your own knowledge that you knew you had to go and you knew you couldn't get up 174

Yeah 602 Did you ever do that un-intentially not knowing 174

Yeah I have done that not knowing yeah

602 Which one would you have done 174

Pisssed the bed

602 Okay - anything else you can tell me about Mr Williams? 174

He used to throw you across the dormitory and urn when you were watching the

news you had to remember what the captains chart was on the weather

602 Okay can you just explain that a little bit more 174

Urn you had to repeat what the man at the news desk said about the weather otherwise you used to get a clout across the head

602 Right and was that just to you or to all the boys 174

To all the boys yeah

602 So you have had to watch the news on television

29

174 Tape Reference No

174

Page 7

Yeah

602 The weather news yeah 174

The weather news yeah

602 And once that had finished what did he do exactly again? He used to can you and say right what was on the captains chart, it was called the captains chart in those days you know

174

602 Right okay 174

And you had to word for word repeat what the anchor man had said otherwise you would get a clout across the head

602 Right and how many people, how many kids were involved in this? 174

602 Right so did you know what type of question was coming your way or was it 174

o not always it was just something from the news yeah

602 Right okay what happened if you got it right? 174

h he would be over the moon

602 And if you got it wrong? 174

A clip across the head

602 And when you say a clip across the head? 174

A smack

602 Can you describe what type of force would be used, how his hand would be when he did it? 174

Flat, a flat hand

602 Right okay and what sort of force would he use? 174

Ah really hard

602 So on how many occasions would he have done this to you? 174

li many occasions, too many to, urn I can't remember how many but urn but it was a good few yeah

602 Okay and what was your actual response to be hit generally?

30

Page 8

174 Tape Reference No:

174

Breakdown and cry

602 So it was fair of me to say then that was forceful enough to make you cry? Yeah

174

602 Okay you mentioned him throwing you across the dormitory, can you just describe the dormitory for me? 174

Right its up on the first floor overlooking the Bay of Grouville, the window like and there were 2 dormitories, mine was the first dormitory and had a locker and bed and that was it

602 Okay what were the floors like etc, 174

hey were lino and highly polished like and Williams to get hold of you and chuck you on the mat and you'd go through the next dormitory like you know

602 Okay when you say the mat can you just describe what sort of size mat and what type of mat it was 174

It was about 4" long and 2 11! 3" wide and you had to be careful when you trod on it otherwise just walking you could slip on, break your leg like you know

602

Oaky and that was because of due to what?

174

Urn

602

Slippery floor, the floor was slippery underneath was it?

174

Yeah, slippery underneath

602

So when he grabbed you and through you on to the mat how did he grab you?

174

Grabbed me from behind

602

But how, where would his hands be?

174

Urn its

602

I am just trying to get out of you really grabs you

174

hard to say you know, I can't remember 174

from the point he grabs you how he

From the shoulders, sorry

602 From the shoulders 174

From the shoulders

602 And then how does he get you to the mat, does he just 174

Just throws you on the mat

31

Pap 9

174 Tape Reference No:

602 Literally throws you onto the mat 174

On to the mat would go over onto the next bit, into the next dormitory like you know

602 Which is how far away? 174

Urn about 10 feet I suppose

602 So when you hit the mat, were you standing, sitting, lying down 174

Lying down, lying down yeah

602 So is it fair of me to say then, if! am wrong then tell me, he has actually grabbed hold of you by the shoulders and thrown you onto the mat 174

Thrown me onto the mat, yeah

602 So what he has hit the mat 174

Hit the mat yeah

602

You have just slipped through ten feet

174

Coughing into the next dormitory yeah

602

Okay and would that be the same with other kids

174

Yeah

602

Can you remember who were in your dormitories when you slept obviously?

174

Yeah

602

Can you tell me who you shared with

174

121

404

162

and I can't remember the bloke, the boy that was in the middle bed, I can't remember him

602 Okay 174

It's a blank

602 Okay would these boys have been subjected to the same sort of treatment as you? 174

Yeah

602 Okay - you mentioned when we spoke, I'll ask you just in case it comes back to you, anything else about Mr Williams 174

I can't remember now, it's a long time ago you know, urn oh yeah he used to take us to the shower room like you know, and I always thought, I think I told you, be

32

Tape Reference No

174

Page 10

was a blatant gay you know and he used to rub your chest and your neck to see if you had washed like you know. Well I don't know if that's true or not you know but there you go 602 What do you mean you don't know if that is true or not? 174

Urn I don't know if he was a blatant gay or not like you know

602 Okay what was the feeling, bow were you dressed when he did this 174

Naked

602 Right okay urn and just describe again what he did 174

To rub your chest and your neck to see if you

602 How did he rub your chest? 174

ith the flat of his hand

602 Okay and whereabouts on your chest? 174

There

602 And when you say he rubbed it, what do you mean by rubbing? 174

Rubbed to see if you had showed or not like you know

602 Okay how would he, whereabouts on your neck would he do this? 174

On the side of the neck

602 Which part of his hand would be on your neck 174

The flat hand

602 And what, how did you feel when he did that to you? 174

I used to shiver like you know

602 Okay and what sort of age would you have been

174

11, 12,13 602 Okay did ever say anything to you, did he ever say anything to you when he was doing this 174

Ah he did but I can't remember what the words were like you know

602 And would he do that in front of the other kids 174

Yeah

33

Page 11

174

Tape Reference No:

602 Okay did you see him do this to other 174

Yeah

602 You saw him do it to the others 174

The others

602 Okay if you had to say how many times that happened to you 174

Ah dozens of times

602 Okay when you took showers and all that, was there always a member of staff present 174

Yeah

602 Do you recall any other members of staff being present 174

Mr

491

r Mr

602 And how were they compared to him? 174

Ah brilliant, they were brilliant yeah, Mr know

491

as very intelligent man like you

602 And you had no concerns from the other members 174

No, No

602 Okay that was what you had told me about which I didn't want to, urn you also mentioned about somebody came in the dormitory one night 121

RD Ali sorry some bloke, some bloke came in the window and took 162 out and me and ran up to Williams' flat and Williams came down but he could't ca e you know, he had a car down the road like you know 602 Okay - can you go on just a bit more? 174

121

rn so I told Williams where ah as like you know with this bloke and he 162 went down the next, he went dow next day we went down me, and Mr Williams and ah he pulled the bloke over like you know so we had to hand 121 ver

121 602 Okay - so tell me a little bit about nd this man, you mentioned something else, they'd known each other hadn't they? 174

Yeah

602 I understand you said 174

Yeah

34

174

Tape Reference No:

12

602 Yeah - so he has obviously come to the Home to get 174

Yeah -

121

602 Did you see him in the Home taking 174

121

?

Yeah

602 Was B 174

121

ppy to go with him?

Yeah

602 Okay - so what do think the time span between telling Mr Williams this and when you went down the next day? 174

Urn there was only about 5 minutes when he took because we ran down to Williams' flat

121

ut the window like

602 Right and you said the next day you went to get him 174

ent to get him yeah 121

602 So how many, between the, how long between when ft with this guy and 121 then you went to get the next day, was it an hour, half an hour? 174

No about 12 hours

602 Oh right - so it was a fair time span 174

A fair time span yeah sniffing

602 And I am right in saying what you said that they were seeing each other? 174

Yeah that's right seeing each other

602 They had been seeing each other 174

Seeing each other

602 Do you remember this man's name? 174

can't remember now urn he reminded me of J ou know in the films, he was done for being urn fucking someone in the toilets

602 Yeah 174

And he lost his, lost his job as an actor over that. He reminded me a bit of him

602 How old would you have said he was at that occasion? 174

What the

35

174

Page 13

Tape Reference No

602 This guy 174

602 And how old would 174

121

be?

602 Right okay, and where did you go the next day to get 174

121

Ali Colomberie which is now the Royal Bank of ab the Royal Bank of Canada, but it was a little shop there who used to sell jewellery and watches and that you know

602 Okay - and do you remember what it was called? 174

'As you like it'

602 Okay and do you remember what you told me on when we first met, because before we came in here you said that you got the name wrong, didn't you? 174

Yeah that's right

602 You told me a different name on 174

Yeah, Gently does it, it's a horse I used to win on, laughing

602 Just to confirm that okay so I have recorded it as 174

Yeah

602 And you did mention it before we came here actually. Okay you mentioned something about, indistinct Mr Williams 174

Oh yeah

602 So you have obviously experienced Mr Williams, if you had to explain to me what you actually thought he was like and what he was all about, how would describe that? 174

Oh he was an animal, he was an animal you know, I used to have nightmares when I left the Home like with him like you know. I don't know why he was ever chosen as a House Master because he was just an animal to the boys like you know

602 And was he in the Home during your whole period there? 174

Yeah

602 Where about do know did he live on site, or off site?

36

174

Tape Reference No:

174

Page 14

He lived on urn as you come down the dormitory, as you come out of the dormitory you go down the stairs and there's a corridor and you turn right and there's a yard and you go up the fire escape up the top that was his flat like you know

602 A 174

602 With him there 174

Yeah

602 Y 174

D Ali

was sound

602 Yeah 174

602 Okay was he, what you explained how he was, his behaviour did he do that in front of other members of staff? 174

Yeah

602 Who would have seen him behave like that towards the kids? 174

Mr time

491

Mr e we

n fact he had an altercation with Mr nce, it was supper r Mr Mr as no match for him you know

602 When you say he was no match what do you mean? 174

Well he was slender

you know

602 Do you know what the altercation was over? 174

I can't remember you know

602 Okay You also mentioned about a train set? 174

Oh yeah that was up in the loft urn Mr 491 used to take us up there like and we would plane, ah train set like you know h then he used to take us rabbiting at night like you know with a torch, we would hold the torch and he'd shoot the rabbits like

602 Okay - and how would you describe Mr 174

491

enerally?

A nice man

602 Okay - you mentioned about meals if you didn't eat it on one particular day, I don't know if we had covered that this morning

37

174 Tape Reference No:

Page 15

No, no

174

602 Can you just explain if you didn't eat your meal? It would be kept for you the next day and you had to eat it., they would reheat if for you

174

602 Right 174

I didn't like vegetables so I would used to go without most weeks you know

602 Okay for example if you don't eat your meal on a, if you don't eat tonight's meal when would you get that meal again? Next day

174

602 Would that be breakfast or evening? Evening meal

174

602 Evening meal 174

Evening meal yeah

602 How long would that go on for? 174

Ah a few days until you actually eat it because you were starving like know

602 Because you did mention that when staff changed over that you could get 174

You could get a full meal like you know

602 Right so how often would the staff change duties then? 174

About mid-week they would change

602 So what would be, if you had to explain how their duties were what, they changed mid-week, what do mean like mid-week, Wednesday 174

Wednesday yeah

602 So is it fair of me to sort of say that if they started on a Wednesday 174

And finished on a Friday, so it was two days we had different staff like you know

602 Every two days 174

Every two, different staff yeah 602 Okay - If you were naughty, you explained that if you were naughty what have you, you used to, they had a little annex, an area in the annex 174

Yeah

38

174 Tape Reference o:

Page 16

602 Can you just describe that to me please? 174

It was like a detention room with a fan in the wall and can't remember if there were curtains but they used to lock you in, I got locked up for a fortnight I can't remember what I had done now, I go locked up for a fortnight then ah they would bring my meals to me you know

602 Okay and how would you be clothed in there? Ah fully clothed yeah

174

602 And how would you hygiene wise, what would happen? 174

Ah they would let us out in the morning for a shower and wash and some of the boys used to shave like you know

602 And urn do you have any exercise at all? 174

One hour a day

602 And what would that be? 174

Ah walking round the, ah walking round the property

602 Okay and would you do that alone or with anybody? 174

D Ah that's with a member of staff

602 Right so how did they stop you running off again when you were walking around? 174

Urn

602 Were you attached to anything or not or were you allowed to walk with a member of staff? 174

We were allowed to walk with a member of staff yeah

602 Okay but any other concerns about, any concerns about being in there? 174

Well it was claustrophobic like you know, it was a small room, a smaller than this room yeah

602 How would they check on you? 174

D Ah there was a flap with a shatter proof glass like you know

602 And how many meals would have a day in there? 174

Ahtwo

602 Which would be?

39

174 Tape Reference No:

174

Page 17

Ah dinner and tea

602 What about breakfast? 174

Well I never got breakfast there. I did when I was in the main building like you know

602 Okay you mentioned also the punishment you got if you were caught smoking 174

Yeah they would take your buss pass away and urn you weren't allowed to go and see your friends or your family during the week-end like you know

602 Okay and how, you mentioned about the older kids towards the younger kids, can you just describe that again to me please 174

) The older kids to the younger kids

602 Yeah you said some of them were bullies 174

Yeah G dA s yeah, the first week I was there he through the fire extin down n the stairs and it clocked me and I bashed my head like you know so I was in the sick bay for about a week

602 What did the staff do about it? 174

Nothing, nothing no, nothing was done

602 Why was that do you think? 174

Dunno

602 Okay I think we have covered most of what we discussed, okay is there anything that since we have spoken that has come to mind? 174

No, no I can't remember it's a long time ago like you know

602 Okay I am not going to go into all the names that you mentioned okay that were in the Home at the time because you got quite a good recollection of names. You mentioned a young lady that you had a relationship with 174

602 Okay can you just tell what that relationship involved? 174

rn shag yeah, listening to music

602 When you say shagging what do you mean by that? 174

Full, full blown

602 Yeah sexual intercourse

40

Tape Reference No

174

174

Page

18

Sexual intercourse

602 And how old would you have been then? 174

602 And bow old would she had been then? 174

bout the same age

602 Can you tell me where this took place? 174

Urn we used to go down Gorey at the back of the castle like you know, the little bay there

602 Okay would the staff had known what was going on? 174

I think so but they turned a blind eye like you know

602 When you say you think so, what makes you think that? 174

Urn Williams used to smile at me when I used to come back from the, laughing, from the beach

602 Did you have to speak to him about it, did he ask you anything or 174

No, no

602 Okay there is only one other thing, you mentioned Mr kid in the Home yeah 174

162

who was a

Yeah

602 When you last saw him at a certain time and he made a comment about the Home, can you just explain that? 174

He said that they are putting, he says I watch Bergerac he says if had been there he says I would have put a bomb and blown the place up

602 Okay and what do you think he meant by that? 174

Well like me indistinct himself

602 Okay do you know anything else about, how he was treated and that 174

He had the same treatment as me

602 Okay I got confused on the first tape about things 174

nd the tree,

Ah yes

602 Can you just explain that for me

41

Tape Reference No:

174

174

Page 19

was climbing up the free and indistinct on the rope like you know and this bird popped out semi nude like you know and had goosed her like you know what I mean, he was a right casanova, he had about three women, four women on the go like you know. He had one that was, one that gave him

602 What was her name? 174

A

602 Is this after he left the Home when he was officially old enough to have sex with her When he was at the Home

174

602 Oh right just go into that a little bit 174

Yeah he goosed some woman and he caught t ike you know, laughing, she'd been sleeping around like herself IiWe you know

602 So how old would he have been then? 174

rn suppose I was coming to the end of my stay at Haut de la Garenne, about 15 I suppose

602 Okay these were people not working at the Home though? 174

No, they weren't

602 You say in the tree, was that a staff member? 174

Ithink so yeah

602 When you say you think so how 174

Well I think she was m not too sure, she was either her like you know, a member of staff

ra

602 Definitely a member of staff? 174

Member of staff yeah

602 And how old would you say she was? 174

Oh about 21, 20, 21 maybe a bit less

602 Okay and when you say she was semi-clothed, which part of her was 174

he top was, she was naked from the top

602 Okay do you actually remember her from inside in the Home, working in the Home or not?

42

174

Tape Reference No:

174

Page 20

Yeah, I can't remember he name now, it's a long time ago like you know and so many things happened you know up there

602 Okay I mean but you are more than happy that she was a member of staff? 174

Yeah

602 J 174

uld have been, how old do you recon when he was

602 And where as this tree you climbed, where about 174

Urn go passed the swimming pool and its in the corner, the field makes a corner and there was a tree there with a tree house like you know

602 Okay I showed you a photograph 174

Yeah I didn't recognise it was me

602 The photograph was actually a series of photographs that we were given okay 174

Yeah

602 And just for the purpose of the tape the exhibit number is ). Its a working copy of a photograph that somebody had given us and the one, you looked through the photographs 174

Yeah

602 And you recognised everybody in the photographs except for one person 174

That was me yeah

602 You had to look very closely and I said that it was, I actually said it was you because I could see its you 174

Yea

602 So I remember you as a kid as well. You got quite emotional, not emotional but 174

Just shut up for a while

602 Yeah you were quite shocked and very surprised and then realised it was you from 174

Yeah

602 In the photograph 174

Yeah that's right

43

Tape Reference No:

174

Page 21 -

602 Can you just tell me a little bit of background about t 174

used to go some weekends to the they off on holiday and they brought me back

ith the

amily, and

602 Can you just spell the surname please? 174

602 Do you know where they are living now? 174

Ah she's still living on t He was

and he's i

now,

602 Okay so I haven't got a lot more to say but if you had to look back at your time there and how this affected you, can you just in your own words just tell me what you thought of your time living in the Home and how its had an affect on you since 174

It affected me greatly when I left like you know I always, we were going to try and get a reunion going urn in the 80's like you know the ones that had been up there but that fell through because most of the people are living in or or you know, they are not here anymore

602 But how, how do you feel about your time in the Home 174

Terrible, terrible

602 Do you have any good memories of the place? 174

I had yeah Christmas and when we went to Bournemouth on a two week holiday, 195 it was great as I told you ried his eyes out when he saw these young girls coming in bare foot like you know, he had never seen anything like that and he gave them I think it was two and six each which was a lot of money for a kid like you know I mean we were, its one thing we did have, we were never short of money, we always had money like you know given to us

602 But generally the Home, apart from those odd occasions, how would you describe it? 174

Hell

602 And looking back now, your life from, how have you got on in life since you left there? 174

ust take any job I could like you know, urn also I used to drink heavily so I used to lose my gaff and urn split up with birds like you know so

602 Why is that do you think? 174

The drinking, the drinking mainly

44

Tape Reference No:

602 174

602 174

174

Page 22

But why did you go to drink I saw doctor Dr Fogerty when he was alive and he said that urn its most probably heredity because my mother was a raving alcoholic apparently so, and that's in the genes like you know, there you go Okay can you blame any of your life in the Home for the drink? o, no I think it was just, I think a lot of it was I used to think it was the Home but it wasn't the Home, even though I had bad memories of it you know I think I used to drink to get to acquainted with people you know what I mean, in the pubs and that I used to find a lot of the jobs that way you know when the drinking was cheap like. I remember going down got sacked from one job and laughing and I'd start next day with another bloke like you know

602 When I called you up to speak to you on Wednesday morning how were you after Wednesday, how did you feel? 174

Ah relief, relief that someone else knew about it you know and has taken, taken action like

602 So you're quite happy now this investigation is (indistinct) into the Home 174

Yeah

602 Have you had any thoughts on it in the past about it 174

Yes I did urn, but I thought where could I go and see someone in authority that, who would look into it you know

602 You have never spoken to anybody about the Home formally until me 174

Yeah

602 Is that fair 174

That's right yeah

602 A lot of the people that you have mentioned that have gone on to different parts of the world but what seems to be one of the general common denominators with them, all the people that you mentioned 174

I wouldn't know 602 I mean how many of them do you still see 174

I see about 3 or 4

602 Locally 174

Locally yeah

602 And how have they got on in life since

45

174

Page 23

174

Tape Reference No:

uggered up, buggered up yeah, they buggered their life up

602 Any one in particular? 174

rn C

404

e's ah, he had a tough time there

602 Okay have you ever discussed the Home with 174

404

Yeah

602 And what's his thoughts on it? 174

Ali

he hated Williams the same as I did you know

602 Anyone else? 174

412 Urn G as up there but that was before me like you know and he had a talk in the 80's about it and he said something ought to be done about it you know but just let it slide

602 Where is he now? 174

Urn he is working for, he's s

602 Okay 174

or

I think it's t 602 Did you say 174

411

602 How did he die? 174

602 Okay unless there is something else I don't want to really start going too deep in 174

602 You know, I really just want to sort of keep it, you know I understand what you have just said to me this morning was not very pleasant, is there anything you just want to just to sum up just to fmish, you know any words you want to say 174

Not really no, just that it was dark time on my behalf when I stayed up there you know and I wouldn't wish it on any other child you know what I mean, so I was never sexually abused it was physical and mental abuse I got from them you know, especially Williams yeah and that's it

602 Okay as I explained on this we have used 2 tapes okay, should we require you to go to court on any of the information you provided, would you be prepared to do that?

46

Page 24

174 Tape Reference No:

174

Yeah

602 Okay before I finish, are there any other concerns about any other staff member or anything that you are aware of 174

o, no Mr F their wives sound

as sound Mr G 491 as sound, as sound, so was well was single but he had a girlfriend like but they were

602 Okay do you ever keep in touch with your half-sisters? 174

No I fell out with am not too sure

6

years ago and

120

think is living in

till I

602 Okay do you ever discuss the Home with them? 174

602 Okay right the time now is 174

Quarter to twelve

602 Quarter to twelve, okay just that my watch is stopped I think. Okay it's a quarter to twelve and I am going to turn off the tape, are you happy with that? 174

Yeah flue

47

2/72

b.^^^(67. On 1.1.72 ceased to be a foster chijLd withir^th^term^o^Articl^5|^o^th^Chi^ren (Jersey) Law, 1969. is looking after her free of charge. (S.C.C.O. J.H.T.) GENERAL MATTERS CCNCERMING CHILDREN IN CAPE b . ^ ^ H 6 2 . Following Care and Protection proceedings this child was committed to Care by the Royal Court on 1962. Since then she has been allowed to remain with her mother under supervision. Contact was lost during last year and it now is evident the family has followed a some­ what itinerant life, eventually arriving in Standard of care had deteriorated to such an extent that the Social Services Department removed and her to a Home. has now requested that we accept financial responsibility for In the circumstances this would appear appropriate. (S.C.C.O. M.J.M.) b.^^^H.55 moved to the J.A.Y.F. Boys' Hostel, Basil Lodge, from his foster home on 5.10.71 as he was becoming very difficult and refusing to work. Since moving to the Hostel he has worked regularly for and has displayed no behaviour problems. At his own request and after consultation with the foster mother, he returned there to live on a trial basis on 28.1.72. (A.C.O. C.A.S.) ,56 at the J.A.Y.F. Boys' Hostel, Basil Lodge. Tbis lad was employed at but gave in his notice to finish on 24.1.72 without having obtained suitable alternative employment. Every effort was made wi^h the Manager of to reverse this decision without success. B S U has made enquiries to join t h e ^ ^ ^ | b u t in view of his lack of educational attainment he is not acceptable. He is now unemployed and efforts are being made to find him a suitable job. (C.C.O. H.B.) GENERAL MATTERS CCNCERNING FAMILIES AND CHILDREN PRIVATELY PLACED b.^^^H>66, care of mother, At the request of the Royal Court a full report was prepared on the question of custody of this child for the Hearing on ^^B.72. (C.C.O. H.B.) to

1.71, whose mother is unmarried, moved from on 14.1.72. (C.C.A. A.F.

Family, b . ^ ^ H . 67 and b.^^^H.71. This family have posed special problems during January because of their supposed grievances over housing. The child is at Haut de la Garenne at present. A special report was prepared for the Housing Committee and copies are available. (S.C.C.O. J.H.T.) SIX MONTHLY REPORTS OF CHILDREN IN CARE 69

56

54

54

55 56 58 59 55 53 64 66

61 54 54

115 1

9773

RESTRICTED

DOCUMENT RECORD PRINT

Officer's Report N um ber TC: STN /D EPT:

SIO O p eratio n R ectangle

REF:

FRCM : STN/DEPT:

SU PP C A R T E R , B R IA N H isto ric A b u se T eam

REF: TEL/EXT

SUBJECT:

O p eratio n R ectangle

DATE:

09/ 07/2008

TITLE:

1/1955 in Jersey

PNC: is currently living with his sibling I

at the above address.

At 11.30 hours, on Tuesday 8^^^ July 2008, Civilian Investigator C602 CARTER spoke to | on the telephone. has no concerns from his time at HDLG, stating that he has fond memories o f his time there. He has stated that he was unruly as a child and in turn he was punished accordingly. This would involve being caned or placed into the detention cells. believes that the punishment he received was proportionate to his actions. He would regularly run away from the home to wind the staff up and he would invariably end up in the detention cells. also named the following staff as being good to him: - W IL L IA M S ^ J a n d Morag K I D D ^ ^ .

-TILBROOK

was asked if he could recall an incident involving Gordon WATERIDGEI whereby he alleged that WATERIDGE threatened to punch him and that he also banged his head against the toilet wall, when he refused to leave this room.

5 0 0 1 0 2 0 1 08L11: L11 C P R E C T A N G L E - JE R S E Y C H ILD A B U S E G K93803L D C P A -9 3 8 0 3 P rinted C n: 0 2 /0 7 /2 0 1 4 08 :3 0 :0 7

RESTRICTED

P age 1 o f 3

11

9774

RESTRICTED

DO CUM ENT RECORD PRINT

5 0 0 1 0 2 0 1 08L11 : L11 O P R E C T A N G L E - J E R S E Y C H ILD A B U S E G K93803L D C P A -9 3 8 0 3 P rinted On: 0 2 /0 7 /2 0 1 4 08 :3 0 :0 7

RESTRICTED

P age 2 o f 3

2

9775

RESTRICTED

DO C U M ENT RECORD PRINT

The Child Protection Team, Jersey, have also been advised on the current UK investigation into

is prepared to provide a witness statement in relation to HDLG however, at this time it is not likely to be of great evidential value. Following a review of personal file, memorandums have highlighted concerns in respect of sexual behaviour as a teenager, whereby he was a suspect for an attempted indecent assault on a female and there were also concerns that he was a 'Peeping Tom'. These memorandums have been Photostatted and given exhibit numbers. This matter will be discussed with the Deputy Senior Investigating Officer A. FOSSEY to clarify if it is prudent to inform the UK investigation of this material. Civilian Investigator C602 CARTER

5 0 0 1 0 2 0 1 08L11: L11 O P R E C T A N G L E - JE R S E Y C H ILD A B U S E G K93803L D C P A -9 3 8 0 3 P rinted On: 0 2 /0 7 /2 0 1 4 08:30:0 7

RESTRICTED

Page 3 o f 3

3

LA CEY A D V O C A TES

Independent Jersey Care Inquiry

Historic Abuse Redress Scheme Documentation

Social Services Green Sheet (indicates a file has been destroyed) Consent of claimant was sought - but no response was received

11

DATE OP DIF.TH:

UJ'' HJ-r.'j.n

HO>^E a DDEESS: Hi-,ET18 ED :

RELIGION: __

r

n

T.-i

RE^^SON EOh C^vRit:_

YEB/N0 ^anfirtned 1966

Parents separated and mother homsiBSS.,pmTnTjn

^

■- ■---- .-^J

Parental Rights Order - Art. 03

SCHOOLS:

SCHOOL

D^iTE St. Clement St, Helisr Boys

3I4PL0YEE

DiiTE

EMPLOYT-lENT:

28.12.70 Sept. 1971 3ct. 1971

XSJ »

Nr me Dp^te & Place of Birth —

Address if different from child Employer

Hou^ife

-

Contact Tel. No .

SIB L IN G S:

Df'iTE Ai\)D DIjjiCE OE BIRTH

1‘!a I4E

6

& 120

247 & 248

PD hCEMENT

Da t e 2.2.56. 10,10.56. 30,1,57. 1 3 .2 .5 7 .

19.11.57. 7 .6 .5 B . 2 6 .10 .6 7 , 2 3 .1 0 .70.

5 .1 0 .7 1 .

20. 1. 72, 1 .1 2 .7 2 . 7 .3 .73 , 21 . 3 .7 3 . 2 3 .1 .7 4 .

Elizabeth House Boarded out with To mother at Boarded out with Westaway Creche. Sacre Coeur, Boarded out with

483

Moved to Haut de la Garenne. Boarded out with Parental Rights Order, JA7F Hostel. 483 Boarded out with JAYF Hostel, Haut de la Garenne. H.M. Prison. TransferxEiL .to .1

2 2

00/55 174

HAME L-a T H

PLi-OE OP 3IPT.H

or BIPAH:.

Jersey

HOME AIjDPJES&;_

i-.PO‘IS E E : TES/EQ

J3,

REL.TGICE"; T,~^

c r,'^

rij^T.

n

P.A^.bOJ'i POP

SCHOOLS :

-r,z'

1966

Parents separated and mother hotrelsssrniTf’Tj;' .'-------------------Parental Rights Order - Art, 83

__________

BiiTE__________________

BCrlOoL

bt. Clement St. Halier Boys

EMPLOYMERT:

Di^TT,"'

EPIPLOYEP

28,12.70, Sept, 1971 3ct. 1971

N?.jne Dc-tte &. Place of Birtli Address if different from child Employer

Housajife

-

Gontac t Tel. No ,

!)>, IE PEL PLuiCE OP BIETH

SIB L IN G S:

6

& 120

247 & 248

Da t e 2.2.86,

1Do 10 o56. 3 0,1 .57 . 13.2.57. 1 9 .11 .5 7 .

7.6.58. ^.10,67. 23.10.70.

^■ To 7~ ^71^71 ,

Elizabeth House Boarded out Mi To mother at Boarded out with Wastaway Creche Sacra Coeur, Boarded out with Moved to Haut de la Garenne Boarded out with Parental Rights Order. JAYP Hostel.

3 3

-jr ,

1=^70

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□ a te

P o ll o v i n g c a s e ^ d i s c u s s i o i i a t l ^ u t de la Garenne t o —d a y , I c a l l e d a t and saw to a d v is e her o f th e recom m endations made,

2 0 .1 0 ,7 0

s a id th a t on Stwday, had v i s i t e d her and had t o l d her th a t she c o u ld e x p e c t a v i s i t from "C h a rle s o f the C h ild r e n 's O f f i c e " . 1 I to ld o p in io n th a t ^ Q Q^ I sh ou ld l i v e w ith h er perm an en tly when ho le a v e s s c h o o l and w it h t h i s in mind th ou gh t t h a t h e m l g h t spend the h a lf-te r m h o lid a y a t 1 su g g e ste d th a t 1 take from Haut dc la Garenne to i° e a r ly e v e n in g o f F r id a y , 23rd O c to b e r , and ho cou ld remain th e re f o r the f o l lo w in g week. Should t h i s bo s u c c e s s f u l he m ight w e ll remain th e re perm an en tly, e x p re sse d h e r s e l f in com p lete a o r e ^ e n t w ith th e se arrangem ents and s a id th a t she has alw ays f e l t c e r t a i n t h a t would re tu rn to h er e v e n t u a lly . I e x p la in e d the s it u a t io n wivh re g a rd to w o r k in g , i . e , th a t he works a t each S atu rday and has o p t e < ^ t ^ w o ^ ( ( ^ f u ^ ^ w e e k d u rin g the h a l f term h o lid a y . This p r e s e n ts no problem a n d wi l l see th a t he c a r r i e s o u t th ese arran gem en ts. V h i l s t I was th ere I met who has r e tu rn e d to l i v e a t and ^ ^ ^ ^ | t o l d me t h a t ^ H I ^ B v i H share a b ed room w ith him. The o th e r la d s s ta y in g he r e a r e the b r o th e r s and a ls o

/ G' Deputy C h ild r e n 's O f f i c e r

29 2

( Sup*rlnt*nd«nt• ChlXdr*n*a Offlo**

lA ^

|

'^1

174

r

I

la now starting tala parlod of *Vork Ezporloaoa from school and will bs a shop/a toronaLU aaslatant at Ho will ba there from Tuesday 22ad September iintll 15th Dsoemb^^r^and will be working from about 8,1»5 until 5*30 p.m. saoh/iday« Ho will take sandwlohea for hla aid-day meal and 1 have been promised by the Oeneral **anagsr that he will be allowed to eat them in the shop during wet weather but will be allowed out Into t h e j ^ ^ ^ H Square to have then when It Is nlost has also elected to work at the same place on Saturday morning afternoon from 8,30 - 5 .3 0 for which he will be paid CX« has now decided that he will leave school at Christmas, will probably go and live with hUd when he Is seventeen will emigrate to t

Superintendent•

I ■

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371

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I g r ow i n c r u a s i n g l y conct-ruod r e g a r d i n g t h « p s y o h o l o g l c a l and s o c i a l coiiilj t i 011 o f t h e ahova-nftmoti p u p i l , a t p r e s e n t l i v i n g .at i i.uL d e l a Ga re nne . The c a a « c o n f e r e n c e r e p o r t s up to 2 CLI 1 . u c t o b e r , 19 6 7 you w i l l a l r e a d y have. I a t t a c l i a copy o f ;i r e p o r t I g a v e a t a c a s e d i a c u B s l o n a t linnt du L.i i.. .remie on 2 8 t h . Juno, 1968 ( A p p e n d i x A ) a t t h e end o j ’ t h i n b o y ' s f i r s t s e c o n d a r y y e a r . T h r o u g h o u t t h e .iutiui.n Lo i ’M o f l ii o 2nd, y e a r h i s p a t t e r n o f b e h a v i o u r has r ema i nod the i-.iiite , o n l y I n c r e a s i n g i n t he *frefluency o f h i s a n t i - s o c j o i ontburnts.' I a t t a c h two r e p o r t s ( A p p e n d i c e s 8 — IJ) on t h i s p e r i o d . The S p r i n g t e r » s t a r t e d w i t h b o t h ■ UQ^ ami i n a most d i s t u r b e d p s y c h o l o g i c a l e t i i t e wlil cl i , w i t h i n Zk h o u r s , i n v o l v e d b o t h i n an a p p a r e n t c a s e o f Lh.'l t nl s c hooT k e y s and b r e a k i n g i n t o the S c h o o l . F o l l o w i n g i e n g t J i y i n v o s t i g a t i o n , t h e moment r e t u r n e d t o t h e d a c s r o o u i s i t u a t i o n he was i n v o l v e d w ith s e n io r s t a f f in a d i r e c t clasli of auth o r l t y . B ot h i n c i d e n t s a r e r e p o r t e d by fi.o i n A i i p e n d i x E. to t h i s I a s k e d s t a f f t o r e p o r t
h

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On I Ti ead ay , 28 th . Jatniai'y, r a n away f r o m s c h o o l d u r i n g t h e lunch b r e a k . I n t h e m o r ni ng o f Wednesday, 29t) ). J a nu a r y lie was tlioii,';iit t o h.ivo t r u a n t e d b u t , i n f a c t , was f o u n d , h a v i n g j o i n c i i a i'i'oc,re: ,s d e p a r t m e n t g r o u p , dalnilrig t h a t lie liad f o r g o t t e n w h er e In? .should bo but h a v i n g , i n f a c t , walked past the S c ien c e Itibcra tory w it h h is f e l l o w fo rm -m atea, i g n o r i n g t h e i r e n t r y t o t)io S c i e n c e d c pa r t i o e h t and g o i i i g ^ i ^ t o t h e A r t room. I n the c f t o i ' i i o o n , a f t e r r e g i s t r a t i o n , and l e f t t h e S c h o o l pr ot ni a os, i n company w i t h two o t h e r b o y s , w h i c h f a c t was r e p o r t e d by me t o h r , T i I b r o o k . A l l four w o r e p i c k e d up by t h e i i o l i c o t h a t e v e n i n g and i n T ^ ^ ^ ^ a t l o n s now f o l l o w i n t o t h e a c t i o n s o f one buy, but n o t One o f t h e ways i n w U l c l i t h e s i t u a t i o n has boon c o n t a i n e d has been by a H o w i n g I ' o H o w a 1st , y e a r i ' r o g r e e s t i m e - t a b l e , i n p a r a l l e l wi tji e v e r t t h e r e hae bean a m . a r l ^ d ^ d ^ ^ e i ' l o i ‘a t Lon i n a so l o n g a s ^ ^ y B^ H i s w i t t i him. .Inm s e i i a r a t e d , i s n o t e x h i b i t i n g a n y t l i i n g l i k e t lie mea s u r e o f d i s t u r b e d b e h a v i o u r p a t t e r n s t h a t marlictl e ld e r b roth ers' progress In th is School. Academ ically, ^ only s l i g h t l y b e l o w a v e r a g e c a p a c i t y and i s t hus u n d e r emp l o y ed I n K, 8>N, groups. H . C , A , W i m be r l e y , S s q . , M. A . . D i r e c t o r o f Education, E d u c a t i o n De p ar t me n t , P i e r Road, 8t. H elle r, JERSKY, C . l .

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IncT-oasiiif^ly, altowin/:; a l Rna o f da ng or oi i B f o rm s o f p h v s i c a l v i o l o i i c e when I n t h l e d i s t u r b e d e t a t e ( s c o p a r t i c u l u r l y Appendi(tr^I>*-* ►!) I l l s c o n s t a n t c h a l l e n p. o to tlin p o a i t i o n o f t he s t a f f and h i s d i s r u p t i o n o f t h e l o o m i n g s i t u a t i o n l a e x p o s i n g b o t h b o ys uu'i s t a f f t o undue e t r s e s | o f t h e i r f o r o b e a r a n o o nnri 1 f e a r t h a t soma p h y s i c a l a c t i o n t night f o l l o w t o tlio p r o f o a s l u n a l d e t r i m e n t o f my a t a f f . A t tlio saiiio t i m e I f e o l f a r ^ ^ ^ n^ b t i m e i a h a v i n g t o bo g i v o i i t o c o n t r o l t h e s i t u a t i o n w i t h no o v i t l e n c o o f s u c c e s s , when ao many o t h e r p r e s s i n g n i a tt o r a r i g h t l y domand t h e a t t e n t i o n ef sta ff. has bo'-i^ vuihor tlio C h i l d O u l d a n ce Cl i n i c f o r some c o n n l d o r a b l L.jrno. -L h a ve a sk e d Mr. H o l l y w o o d , tJiB E d u c a t i o n a l l ’sychi>l i.g L;-1, t o r e n d e r you a r e p o r t from the C l i n i c rogartiin;; hts troatniont. 1 f e o l that i t i a t o o l a t o t o roconuticnd s o o k i n g a d m i s s i o n f o r him a t a r e s i d e n t i a l s c h o o l f o r inal a J J u a t o d c h i l d r e n . If t h e A u t h o r i t y p r o c o o d s t o e a t t v b l i a h a s m a l l u n i t on t h e l a l a n d he woul d h a ve b<*uji one o f t h e o a s e s 1 w o ul d h a v e wlsJieU t o g'o f o r w a i i l , i i i t liad been o n v l a a g o d tha t s e c o n d a r y pupi i .i won I'i nave b e en a d m i t t e d . I f e e l t h e t i m e i s r a j U d l y .a p] u'liac hi ng when 1 s h a l l h a ve t o a s k f o r I l l s w i t h d r a w a l f ro m t h e s c h o o l d l t u a t i o n s i n e e I c a n s e e no pi ac t Lea i a 1 1ox'na t l v e . I w o ul d a p p r e c i a t e an o p j ^ o r t u n i t y to d i s c u s s t i i i s case w ith y o u r s e l f and t h e o t h e r s e r v i c e s c o n c e r n e d . Yours e i n c e r e l y ,

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Tlie l a s t r e p o r t f r o m tlio i^chooi i e d a t e d 2 6 t h . O c t o b e r , 1967 . The c r u c i a l p o i n t i n tii lo h o y ' s c a r e e r a p p e a r a t o have b e en h i s roniovnl f r o m h i s f o ot . o r m o t h e r t o llaut de I n G a r e i m e . Howev er J u s t i f i e d t h i s may hav o boon I reinain t o t a l l y o r i t l e « l t ' t ) » 9 b o y as ha l e f t a o h o o l , o f the o r i g i n a l came t o S c l t o o l e n r ^ ^ j ^ a n d On tiiy I n a i s t o n c e , nil tiiysolf o b t a i n e d in tho presence o f c o - o p o r a t i o n i n movi ng t o H i n t do l a Gareiuio w i t h the proutlee ' w i t i i Mr. T i l b r o o k on a r r i v a l i t h a t t h i s w o u l d bo ’ t a l k e d out r t l i a t t h e boy u n d e m t o o d aa T h i s was n e v e r done i n n matiuc f u l f i l l i n g t h a t proiniau. From t h e n c e f o r w i i r d tb-'. ■ l ' ' s boon a marked d e t o r l o r n t l o n S P C i a l a t t i t u d e nt I c h o o l . On a i l o c c a s i o n s t h a t l e n g t h y d i s c u s s i o n s h a ve I ' o l i o u o d uiadomsnnoVJrs h a . b e en a b r e a k - d o w n i n t o l e w s and an o u t b u r s t o f r e e a n t m e n t in

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la tar MW to m*U* to «tto ) to« iM ipljr toa*a*t to a v w* tol* w a | lw to ***ap* faaa to* «a*a*U *f to* **l*%toalr *■«« •*•**! toil la fta lto lr kiat « f U to to 1* tola* aw— lto t to l**A. toa w yi* to to»4 to* d la u r*»toM M M lto a ri* t« M « kitoto I* i*f**f t * i « i f a * u * f * f i* t * i r ka* l a i i M

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kto Vito toa iH M liiiilto *f **mal toaltor taw to . Ila *M ltaan to *«to to to to lr*< to to fa ritm i to* ***Utto* *f U * ! »■*■** sttoK U w *al to ctw a w a ir faaalU* aMtotoaa* 1* toM iiiat to* to *«>*** toa p**w * «tol«*M **l m * to* fw *>> ! la M M toa* to v iU to to**M ■■**«* to w a p * to* lU * afto* l i M l y itoiat# U < to 9**tokf* * toto i t o s H BH t o a*tl***to* f«* to »« to «•*• *mto*a itoa f w utol to la **4 toa% to I* Ja***l lAVfaljr m to* *fia*« to* d*m m ** to* tatow* to w f a a U t lt o to * * a U to

n in m il

to a to fla r*

to * lw r « f * U to* a if f t e a l l l w H

0H

to* toft to fM * aw 1* totoapa toeWfal to t* a*i 4im *al%l**«

56 3

f

/ i.

l6 t k S « p t « ib « r 1 9 ^

9 * a r C u o n 01tt«jTt

1 hav* now r « o « lT *4 /our

olroualtad to a l l paranta aai ffu A la n a

of te/a attandlnc 8 t * ^ l l a r Bo/a* Sohoolf oonoamlnc the nav arrangeeeate fo r S*I*

V k lla t I would hava no objaotlon to

ata/ln^ on at aohool a fta r houraf

tha Taffmrlaa of ths wlatar tua aarrloa a lj^ t qulta wall praoluda Bia nttandannai Tha faot that ha a v alao ha raquirad to ata/ on nora than ono aftarnoont would taad to aaka hia da/a awajr froa hare rather lo n f would alao oauaa an aoaa anxlet/* la tha olropaatanoaa 1 would Ilk a to hope that ttta Bavd«Fr«Barllho/ w i l l r ^ a t a r t hla aaatlnca on Honda/ aranlnga hare fo r a ll the Roaan Oathollo (%lldxaa« He w i l l» of oourae he aada Yar/ walooae.

Toura

SuperIntandant• Havd«l«V.OXBagri

Tba Praahftagri

f t i BllWai

84 1

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911

14th Hv- 19^

GUiaran** Offle*.

174

Oftll«d to

HU to digr to d lM u u

lU liil/

thvjr owM b *osu H thiu « * r * rm vf vorriad about th* iooldant towards ths sod o f ^ X s s t o r h o lld v with thsa (s s « sjr aw> datod 29*4 > ^ )* ITS t h « that

I

obis to

did not dlaplajr mjiy rnallos towards tbon

bat took ths

opportunity to dlsouss with tbsa ths whols fls ld o f oorporal piutlAasst*

Ws

liiisd attitudss and rsaaoos and thsjr wars opsn to sucgsstlos rs fs rd ln f othsr asthods o f punlshasnt. 0 r oonvsrsation oonfixmsd mj suaplolon th at ff

i

w h llat a war/ pleasant I n t s lllg s n t aan i s a lso b a s ic a lly ra ry ac8Ta«>lT*» t a l l BS th a t ths/ onl/ use oorporal puciahaent ae a la s t r s s o rt but said that whan ha doss uos i t ha intanda I t to hurt v a i/ mov and r s la ts d a atoi/ to as about hia own o h ild whan ha oanad h is aoise 2-f yaars ago and I s f t Tax/ bad marks oo tha bo/a la g s and buttooks.

re la te d th in stox/ w ith a l o t

o f g u i l t and axplainad ao*a o f tha b a sic a ttltu d a s the th is m attsr and sought to J u s tify him salf*

bars towards

I szo lsio a d ay own p r o fs s s lc a s l

b s lla f s and haws giwsn h ia a faw idaas whiob I hara no doubt ha w i l l ■M iH " OTsr. I b i s w i l l naad to ba broaohtd again a t stea su ita h la tlma* tslksd o f

wish to hs rnn

Va also

and ^ ^ ^ ^ f l l s w i l l i n g to sss ths

lo s s l p r ls s t about th is whsn ha o a lls . I t was agrasd th at

would go to

tbs ^ ^ l a v s x / Sunday) fo rth e whols o f h is h a lf tsxw h olid ay Saturday - Sondgy and f o r a parlod during ths aumnsr h olidays*

Tha/ do o o t f a a l ^ D l S w i l l sTsr

1 95

be wbolljr aeoepted

od

an aaotlon a l l e v e l in to t h e ir fa a lljr but would wlah t «

ooatlBue to b efrien d b in w h lle t a llo w in g ua to nake a lt e m e t iv e a rra ng — ante f o r the bo/ax

ehould we wlah to do eo.

la prepared to keep an open mind

about the bojr'a eventual aooepteaoe in to the f u l l / but her huaband haa genuine doubta about the p o e a lb lllt y o f th la but vouldbe pleaaed ahould i t hap;en*

Tbap to ld ae that tbejr would probabl/ be eo vln g to taka over the a h o rtl/ i aubjeot to the Boueing Cowailttee*e approval*

Both the

Are w orried about ^ ^ H B^ ^ l f o e t e r - e o t h e r 'e In te x e e t

In the boy I and I axplaloed b r i e f l / the reaaon f o r the wove w ithout d lv u l^ jln f

i

any iap orta n t nattara and euggeeted to then th at aa

got to know then b e t t e r

soeM o f h ie n ea oriee o f h i a f c a te r nother would In e v ita b ly fade and h la r e l a t l n* ehips w ith the

vould then be etrengtheoed.

Buperintendent■

2 96

Sheet N o -

NAME

174

poj

D A T E O F B IR TH

MP’.

ti‘v

Dote

11.3.68

Called^to soe CoKejy|ier with Mx. ilmi th. was in to arrHTi(t*i -Tor to upentJ a lonti Las ter wssksnd with tlio family. back.^round was flllo d in more fully than had bean dons bafora and his relationship with the children, whom liad assn at liaut d« la Gar e n n ^ ^ v ( ^ ^ e * p l a i n e d • also filled in the baokj-round o f foster-home more 1u l l y . commented on p ^ o c c u p a t i o n with an older boy in thre f o s t e r h o m e ( ^ ^ ^ | whom he seems to hero-worstiip and whose ts he t ak.es (jreat pride in d e B t h e open —l■lOUthed boys 1 She expressed concern Tor links and wondered if sti should eic ourage theee links in any way. Mr. bmith, however, fo^ t that all cuntact wlth the past stioulu be allowed to slip away _ had before referred to his 'mum and brothers' but this has rtc ently changed to his 'f OB ter mum and foster brottiars'J Many of present troublea he felt were the result of tiis envirojimont in a fuster-hotne not beat suited to him, whore the foster-mother was too possessive and hs had no father f l ^ r e , said that ^^d bo t h (^et on e x t r e m e l y well with h e r child^^j^^^n spite of the atje t^ap. her suns are o ld e r than their at;e and ^ ^ ^ |^ | o . f t e n acts y o u n g e r and they therefore find a meetint; point. Her own clirldretL look forw a r d to the coining two. Un her renuest, ehe was told a little a b o m ^ back,.round ■ S he feels that W3 4 8 is c l e v e r e r and s h a r p e r than both end ■aoa o oU(^ht B box e f chocolates of their own accord and she feels t h a t ^ ^ ^ Q^ I w i l l not at tempt to steal fr o m h e r .

_______ ^^_know s her husband tl^n^tighly and knows that he will not foster _______ at the moment although s he herself would like to* She Is being s hrswd about this and has not mentioned losterlng to him as she fee la she will put him off the whole idea. it must come from him. She hopes that ths rel ationship will develop to fosterink even if It conies to the poln t when the necessity of taking backwards and forwards to tluut de la Garonne stimulat« him to a final decision to fos ter hiiii Mr. Smith said that ha was pleased for th e i elatlonshlp to develo p to fostering but that at the moment he was satisfied for thinaa to remain as they were as this was the n ext best thing for are pleased with It was arranged for him to stay with them for the Laeter weekend, being collected on Thursday, 11th April ano kept until the tdllowing Tuesday. The arrangement is a flexible one i n a s m u c h as if things go well and if they wish to, they can keep longer th.in Tuesday, 16th. These arrangements to be finalised direct with Huut de la Garonne. seems

to tj« a very discerning understanding person. Uhi.

1021

OkildTM'i Off Id*.

22ad Jw iuqr 19^6 /'

( 1ft* *t Christa** h*T* alao* *ppro*

_________

_

._____ :_

1041

proved trdublvsome h* udmittwd .iO,5,5Q to th» U«n»ral HoaoltAl for obaoivatlon. Mo voo ploood olth on 7.6,5« ot tbo «|to of two yooro |«o n t h o , and baa romalnod thoro slnco that dato. w****I^^ hlatory, b. i. roport.d to bav. bo.n atubborn M d difficult to train, with tanpor tantrrwas, aoroanlna attacks, ttsdwsttinc, and daatructlvs bobavlour. Miring rsosnt yaars b« baa ^ ^ January of iy6a bo started at bt. Cl«aant«a bohool ^ bio Cbrlatmaa report at tbs ond of that year connn.ntod on tbo fact that ha took things belonging to other children and found It alaoat iapoaalble to tell ttr truth. After this, a steady laproveSlant could be traced in bis behaviour at school, but still rsoorts ®*T* d s l ^ e r a u i t b | f ^ ^ d continuous diahonsaty both in spetoh and herself expreee, d feare that he was pllferU although ^ U y^ l r s p s a t s d l y denied this. ^ Ap^arsntly il^tance of hie sitters, ^ ^ ^ h e summer of ly'b^ attompt ntroduce _______ tc who waa then w ith ____________ et the family waa muc Against ^h^^de^jnjj_gjB£ggg^d aroup Home. feare of h a v l n e ^ ^ ^ ^ H T j t ^ e n f r o a her, Howaver _________ woro introduced to In J u l y l ^ 4 , appeared enthuelastic at tfm etlng ond was friend* ly eAdtaU|atlve with I » A u g u a t It was arrangad that be ploke> up at ^ be taken to the fiiH for *** eudeenry decided that ho wonted to stay with his “ *“• he ecreamed and yelled, working hlmooif ----- -- teria that all ideas of a abunUo ned. 1 483 1 1/4 1 often woke up screaming rsportsd later, th„t aftsr the episode, months la tar these nightmares subsldsd. ” H. n., howivsr. s l n c ^ ^ e n l ^ H ^ ^ n c l l n s d to show fear at any prospect of removal from ■

Keport for ly 05 again V* **• her c h l l d r e n ^ H ^ ^ y this time about a iiuln In tils ohost. x-rays proved nothing tn« •plvod# W«« put uown to Ut tontiori*«a«k4 nj-. t . h .y . u t ^ "loLber

shoved Irnproveeupjr^slon. In and atsvad ted to complain radica iy wrong and 1* * ^ 2 ''•o o rtw

over-pro tec tivanasa of in January the ^ohlloren were remove from the foeter home. ^wa.*niTv again expreesed fears that -- ---- Jwas pillaring from school, but was against the idea of him ^^hlld Guidance Clinic, cn 3 .3 . 6 7 H IM was a ain in rnSStti Ti* ‘'•ntsnler ^atsou lor hoollganlam a ~ ~ , g a l o w hear the SSowln^'^*'.. In two incidents of bicycle Jn7?rom*ir! "P** P» Pilfer­ ing from the foster houo Utaln, v**.-* 1 ** oterted to go to tne Child Guidance Clinic on 11.7,67. on la o^^)!***.*^*" Visit t ^ h e olinio, he was taken up hai; d ^ *“ ^ very tans, at t L prolj.ct altho^h, after verilying with ur, Col..lns that he was only going for rhIn*iJ’th* oo-'ovhat and locksd around with l».t.ve,t introduced to and hie ***** •••“ •<* PioAAod that he had .o many relatione t HAuWe^^jarenne. However he was axtrsmsly rslltlved to gat teck *'•*’ “ ‘i ^ A A A lit.ls tearful. Hs has not A s k ^ a ^ i n aftsr although H has «»ksd ms once or twice how

there

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ l ^ e e p a r e t e d from her husband brothsrs In ths hoi - who vers also orought up by

1 108

hav* ruoajitJLjr bwen In troubl* wb«n tbayv^r* «onvlct«il of loltarlna Altii int«nt to o o m l t m, falony, aX*o bmma convicted of traffic o f r o n o h footer obfldren have been In and out of the hone elnoe hae been there, and at ore a an t llA_^4ooklna aft (d/^^H.64), 6^(7^and two other boye and I [d/b have been vlth _________________ nine* few nontha old T ^ ^ ^ D Bul x * reportd^to jfet on very well with I vho la neareat him l ^ a a ^ > but ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ B a n d bla brother are ' 1 to be retumItMt to vox7 ahortly for £oodt The ^ m y a d ^ ^ ^ ^ ae«Hi to have nooh Inolxnatlon to be Independent

M

There hee d eerly been an Iwproveaient In ^ B B^ I over the year# ha hae lived with but even tbouch be baa been at ^ o r ao lon^, he la atlll ahowlnc eifne of Inaecurlty. _________________ doea eaen to hava a ^reat deal of affection for bin and tende to abow Ihla In ovarpoaaeaelvenaaa* OtAhJLvs -fUJbUj

2 109

r: ZDUCATIOH COjlT'ITT^r. - CHILDREN’ S SECTIOIT SCHOOL REPORT POR CASE GORPHRES^TCK: AT Oii

Haut

l a (^artpne

26th October, 1967,

NAME OP CHILD

"

DATE OF ADMISSION TO ?RESE^^T SCHOOL

DATS 0? BIRTH 14th Septeaber, 1967

SUMAARY OP REPORTS FROM PREVIOUS SCHOOL(S)

SCHOOL REPORT (Results o f Standard T ests, Class Teats, e t c ,. Behaviour and re la tio n s h ip 7/ith other pupils (boys and g i r l s ) and S t a f f ) TnTTii ia Porn and English Masteri Kr, J , B u rch lll He has s e t t le d down w e ll in the cla ss and presents no problem a t a l l . On the odd ocoaaion he seeiss to be not q^uite ’ w ith I t ' but g e n e r a lly h is work In English is good. He reads I n t e l l i g e n t l y and w e ll (^he S tory o f W illiam Tell*) - J 3 . M arshall in the B righ t Story Readers S e r ie s , W ritin g ( l . e . a ctu a l s c r ip t ) i s not the b est fea tu re o f h is work but he does w r itte n exerciea i n t e l l i g e n t l y and com petently. S p e llin g and punctuation f a i r . C rea tive w r itin g always seems to be almost p o e tic but ju st o f f the p o in t, ■ t h e r teachers have described him as almost o ve r-o o n s c io n tio u s , g iv in g g re a t deal o f h is own time to fin is h work v o lim t a r ily . They a ls o suspect however, th at he is e a s ily le d and fin d s h is way in to more troublesome company in the playground. This could be a natu ral r e s u lt o f h ie somewhat vague p e r s o n a lity . The in cid en t o f h ie l o s t ra in coa t is a t y p ic a l example o f a time when the only emotion he showed was m ild bewilderm ent. He has not been here lon g enough f o r me to make a d e ta ile d ob verva tlon but g e n e ra lly h is conduot eeems q u ite e a tle fa o to r y and none o f h ie ^^^^w ork can be aseeesed as below form a vera g e,

ANY OTHER RELEVANT R5MARKS:

1101

./ M-t B n

Uealy read her oontprehensive report ^Ivin^ d e t a i ls Tarloue Bovee, e t o .

1112

-

2

-

-__ I 1123

LA CEY ADV OCATES

Independent Jersey Care Inquiry

Historic Abuse Redress Scheme Documentation 124

Application Form and Suppofting Documentation

Consent of claimant has been obtained

1

States

8

of jersey

Historic Abuse Redress Scheme ·Application Form

Established in respect of Historic Child Abuse suffered when in the Full-Time Residential Care of the States of Jersey: 9 May 1945 - 31 December 1994

The completion of this Application Form is required in order to consider your claim for financial compensation. Therefore, please take time to provide the requested information as accurately and as fully as possible. The States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozannes, may require additional information in respect of the content of this Application Form if considered necessary to evaluate and process your claim. If there is insufficient room for any answer, a separate sheet may be attached to this Application Form

.. ·1.

- -----·- --- - - - -- - -

- - - - -- - - - . ,

Personal details 124

Forenames: Surname: Any former names or names by which known whilst in care.;

Contact telephone number: '

Date of birth: Place of birth:

.tcr<;~

-J cD{$:;Y When submitting this Application Form, please provide certified copies of any two of the following: (a) passport; (b) driving licence; (c) birth certificate ; (d) marriage certificate; (d) a recent utility bill; (e) any other official document confirming your identity 1 2 W States ofj er sey 2. Claimant's representative (if appointed) ( o ~' ..v r ~ (V'c r./ .,sL L- (? Name of representative: ,A--z..,A-.....1 Address of representative: 'P C ·H fT-r..l c e n.-; L..v' c 2 A Relationship of representative to you: 3. Details of care Dates when in the full-time residential care of the States of Jersey: 11 {, k ( 1t Ct!l.C A 7 Care Home(s) in question: Any relevant family background (if known): J~~· t~ Names of any other children in care who were your friends or associates when in care: ;?(_ 2 3 if States of Jersey 4. Abuse alleged to have taken place The following information is required to evaluate and process your claim. If there are events or matters you feel unable to commit to writing, please contact your representative or the States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozannes, in order to discuss how to proceed. Detail if lengthy may be set out in a separate sheet to be attached to this Application Form Detail of abuse: )$")c V ~

+r~ e ,/ ~

Pfec--..

q

r-/4-t """-' 4

v S :['

Pr-Q ~ ""2..<)

I

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I

Date(s)/time period(s) of abuse:

Perpetrator(s) of abuse:

Any witnesses to the abuse:

5.

Complaints of abuse

If you complained or confided in any other person at the time or shortly thereafter in relation to the abuse in question , please confirm to whom you complained or in whom you confided, what you advised them and of any action taken they or you took as a result:

3

4

If

States ofjersey 6.

Criminal proceedings

Please confirm if you provided a statement~ojb.e States of Jersey police as part of the historic abuse inquiry: ~ I NO T .S ...J (l. .F ...)\ C 1- 1 tE- ./ .1 -,-.-i A- "";" ~\1 E ...( ~ Please confirm if any previous police statements ha~~~n provided in relation to the abuse to any police force at any time: YES I )ID &>; f ( . CJ

t>

z.o 5"

If YES, please specify the (approximate) date(s) of any statement(s) provided to the police:

c?J

~~{ .

If YES, by submitting this Application Form you are giving your unconditional consent to the release of all such police statements to Mourant Ozannes in order to consider your claim. If NO, please explain the reason for not providing a statement to the police:

Please confirm whether to your knowledge any of the persons named as abusers have been subject to criminal proceedings (whether found guilty or not) in any jurisdiction and give any detail known to you: :(:(

pL ~......,.._.,)

~'4. c ·v

G,; I t-.-

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'-!

Please confirm if you have ever given evidence in any criminal proceedings in relation to the abuse and if so state the Court and approximate date evidence was given:

r _

v,

T

c=v , bl

G ~(I C.... to\ I ti ,4-/, V(:r-

J) '1/

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~

l~ ~ fCt 6--A.-, ;$$rt-1 ..: \ 6-c v :-- 1'7" ( I, 1'\-Vc{) 4 ~ r( 1-1 «-orv\'J 1'-1 ;r- F tee ..-1--t l?v. o c.."'tv c r 4 5 W States ofj ersey 7. Crimi na l Injuries Compensation Boa rd application/awar d Please confirm if you have previously submitted a claim for compensation in respect of historic child abuse to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in Jersey: YES I ~ If YES and you did submit a claim, please confirm the outcome and the amount of any compensation received by you : historic abuse inquiry: tv'~ ~v( .:r ~ 1 J Q v w1L-t ~v~ t.vA-1 Pr! ~ - S"c..~D11~ If YES. by signing this Application Form you are giving your consent to the release of all papers held by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in respect of your claim and the outcome of it. ----·--- ,.---- - -- ------- - - - - 8. I I -----. Prev ious civil proc eedings Please confirm if any previous civil proceedings have been threatened or commenced·'~ you or on your behalf against any party in relation to the allegations of abuse: : YES I N;o If YES , please provide the details and the outcome : 5 6 If States ofJersey 9. Claimant's personal declaration By signing this Application Form, I acknowledge and confirm that: (a) I consent to the States of Jersey Police releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statement I have made in relation to an allegation of historical abuse; (b) I consent to any police authority releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statements made in connection with any alleged abuse; (c) I consent to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any claim submitted by me for financial compensation for any alleged abuse and any award made in my favour; (d) I consent to the disclosure of this application form to the States of Jersey Police and the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board; (e) I acknowledge and accept that in order for my claim to proceed , I may be required to meet with and discuss my claim with a psychiatrist in order that a psychiatric evaluation/report be prepared for the purposes of considering the compensation claim. I confirm that I agree to co-operate fully in such a report being prepared and provided to Mourant Ozannes and further agree that any material obtained pursuant to this application form may be shared with the psychiatrist preparing the report; (f) I agree that to the best of my abilities I will otherwise co-operate fully with Mourant Ozannes in providing information relevant to the determination of my compensation claim and to provide any relevant material in my possession to Mourant Ozannes for that purpose; (g) Save as explained above , I confirm that I have not received any form of damages or compensation from any source in respect of any of the allegations put forward in this Application Form; (h) I confirm that any records held by the States of Jersey, including social services records, hospital records, education records, medical records and mental health records will be reviewed as part of consideration of my claim; (i) I consent to the release of my private medical records (including general practitioner records and records held by any hospital or other med ical practice, as I detail in the attached authority) to Mourant Ozannes for the purposes of assessing my claim and provide the attached authority for the purposes of obtaining those records from any medical practitioner(s). 6 7 States if of Jersey r - · - -- - - - - - - - - 1 10. Warning: Risk of criminal prosecution II I I ! I 1 I understand and acknowledge that the provision by me of any information that I know to be untrue or false, or which I do not believe to be true, with a view to obtaining the pay ment of financial compensation under the scheme established by the States of Jersey is a criminal offence. As such , I am fully aware that, should the States of Jersey's advisers at any stage become concerned as to the truthfulness of any statements made by me, this Application Form and any other information supplied by me with a view to obtaining the payment of financial compensation will be referred to the States of Jersey Police for investigation and possible criminal prosecution. 1 I I _ _ __ 11 . --·- - -- - --·· - -- - - - -- - -...! ·-~ -·- --- Declaration of truthfulness By signing below, I HEREBY CONFIRM AND DECLARE the contents of th is Application Form to be true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief. 124 S~ned Claimant Signatu re 124 (Print Name): Dated : 17 be- ~~ In the Presence of Signature: lf/l ·t L- (Print Name and Professional Qualification): _ ~-- _ All commun ications in respect of the Scheme should be addressed as follows:PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL HISTORIC ABUSE CLAIMS Mourant Ozannes 18-22 Grenville St reet St Helier Jersey JE4 8PX Tel : (00 44 1534) 676371 Fax: (00 44 1534) 676333 Email: historicclaims@mourantozannes.com 7 8 fJ States of Jersey Authority for access to Medical Practitioner Records I, hereby authorise the Medical Practitioners listed below to release to Mourant Ozannes of 12 Grenville Street, St Helier, Jersey, JE4 8PX §.!! of my records held by them to include, but not be limited to , copies of all consultation notes, hand written notes, computer records, test results, imaging results and any other records held by the medical practitioner. I understand that the request for §.!! records will include everything held by my medical practitioner whether the medical practitioner considers them relevant to the allegations that I am making or not, so that a full medical history is known. 124 Signature: 124 Print Name and Address: 1)) ) Date of Birth: Names of both past and present med ical practitioners that you have been registered with since birth: !J < - -,- t~ . I f) ~~· t"'- I t " ~ Date A copy of thts authonty shall be deemed to have the same authonty as the original. 8 9 Your Ref: Our Ref: ALC 001.1 9 March 2011 Advocate B. Lacey Mourant Ozannes 22 Grenville Street St. Helier JERSEY JE4 8PX Dear Advocate Lacey, 124 Re: 124 We act have been instructed by to claim compensation from the States of Jersey in respect of the physical, emotional and sexual abuse that he suffered whilst in its care between circa 1961 and 1967. For convenience we shall refer to 124 as the Claimant. Introduction 1.1 The States of Jersey (subsequently referred to for convenience as the "Defendanr) was at all relevant times responsible for the management, control and administration of a children's home known as the Jersey Home for Boys and subsequently Haut De La Garenne. 1.2 The Defendant has not disclosed socia l services records in respect of the Claimant and consequently reserves the right to amend these particulars once disclosure has been made. Statutory backdrop 2.1 In the course of providing social services functions the Defendant received into care children. The duties of the Defendant in respect of a child in its care are set out in the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 (as enacted by order in council); and Public Instruction Committee Act 1953. 2.2 Further pursuant to the Children and Young Persons' Act 1933; and Public Instruction Committee Act 1953, the Defendant was responsible for the provision, management, supervision and maintenance of community homes including children's homes. 2.3 At all relevant times the Defendant was responsible for the management, control supervision and maintenance of Haut De La Garenne children 's home and for the employment of staff at this home. The Defendant is vicariously liable for the acts of 10 the staff when carried out in the course of their employment or closely connected to it. 2.4 The Administration of Children's Homes Regulations 1951(England and Wales) gave guidance as to the standards expected in local authority and voluntary homes. In particular regulation 11 provided a guide as to the acceptable level of corporal punishment for children of the Claimant's age. 2.5 The memorandum on the Conduct of Children's Homes dated July 1951 and circulated to all authorities and unless proved to the contrary the Defendant with the Administration of Children's Homes Regulations 1951 provided the following guidance as to the standards of care to be expected for children placed in homes by the local authority: 2.6 (a) The substitute home should offer affection and personal interest, stability, opportunity for the child to make the best of his ability and aptitudes and a share in the common life of a small group of people in a homely environment. (b) The home should aim to provide a reasonable standard of comfort. (c) Bedrooms should be individual and "every child should have an individual place in which to keep his personal possessions which should not be disturbed by the staff without his knowledge". (d) Daily life in the home should create a feeling of security and well-being. (e) The housemother should make time to talk to the child at bedtime. (f) Play is necessary for the child and play materials should be supplied. (g) Uniformity of dress is discouraged. (h) Money should be given to children to allow them to become aware of its use. (i) Children should be encouraged to take part in the day-to-day running of the home. (j) Visits by relatives should be encouraged with no undue restrictions as to times and with no monitoring of letters save in exceptional circumstances. (k) Children should have holidays. (I) Children should have a well-balanced diet. (m) Corporal punishment should only be used as a last resort. The Claimant wi ll rely on the following specific provisions in respect of corporal punishment pursuant to regulation 11 of the Administration of Children's Homes Regulations 1951 (which governed both community homes and voluntary homes) it was provided that: 11 2.7 (a) No corporal punishment except that authorised by paragraph (3) of this regulation shall be administered by any person except the person in charge of the home or in his illness or absence his duly authorised deputy. (b) No corporal punishment shall be administered to a girl who has attained the age of 10 years or to a boy who has attained the age at which he is no longer required by law to attend school (hereafter referred to as 'school leaving age'). (c) No corporal punishment shall be administered to a child under ten years of age except by smacking his hands with the bare hand of the person administering the punishment. (d) No corporal punishment shall be administered to a boy who has attained the age of ten years but has not attained school leaving age except the caning of the posterior of the boy with a cane of a type approved by the secretary of State applied over the boy's clothing to the extent of six strokes or less. (e) No caning shall be administered in the presence of another child . (f) No corporal punishment shall be administered, without the sanction of the medical officer of the home, to any child known to have any physical or mental disability. The above provisions provide the statutory backdrop. At all relevant times the Defendant owed to those children taken into its care and those children placed at community homes under its supervision and management a common law duty of care. Sequence of events 3.1 The Claimant was born on 1953. 3.2 The Claimant was taken into the Defendant's care as a ch ild. placed by the Defendant at Haut De La Garenne as a child. 3.3 Whilst at Haut De La Garenne the Claimant suffered sexual, physical and emotional abuse as set out below in the Complaints of Abuse section. 3.4 The Claimant has been unable to discuss the abuse in any detail that occurred at Haut De La Garenne as set out below with anybody until he was asked to make a statement by the pol ice in 2005. The Claimant was The duty of care 4.1 After the Claimant was taken into care and/or was placed at Haut De La Garenne, the Defendant assumed responsibility for the welfare of the Claimant and owed him a duty of care as set out below. 12 4.2 The common law duty of care owed by the Defendant to the Claimant included the following duties: (a) A duty to act in the place of the child's parents and to provide the Claimant with the standard of care which could be expected of a reasonable parent. (b) A duty to take reasonable steps to protect the Claimant from physical, emotional, psychiatric or psychological injury whilst he remained in the care of the Defendant whether such injury was inflicted by deliberate abuse or careless acts. (c) A duty to provide a home and education for the Claimant for such period as he remained in the care of the Defendant. (d) A duty to place the Claimant at all times in a home where his safety would be secured and/or monitored by the Defendant. (e) A duty to safeguard and promote the Claimant's development in a manner appropriate to the Claimant's stage of development at any given time. (f) A duty to provide any medical treatment which the Claimant required by arranging referral to a suitable medical specialist or otherwise. (g) A duty to secure the Claimant's right to family life. (h) A duty at all times to provide a competent and su itably qualified and/or experienced social worker or workers whose responsibil ity it was to monitor the physical, psychiatric and psychological welfare of the Claimant. Vicarious duties 5.1 Further at all relevant times each of the social workers employed by the Defendant who were allocated to care for the Claimant owed the Claimant a duty of care. The duty of care of each social worker for the period for which they were allocated to the Claimant included: (a) A duty not to injure the Claimant whether deliberately or otherwise and to protect the Claimant from physical, emotional, psychiatric and psychological damage whether by themselves or others. (b) A duty to monitor the Claimant's physical, emotional, psychiatric and psychological welfare. (c) A duty to make arrangements to provide such medical (including psychiatric and therapeutic) treatment as was reasonably necessary for the Claimant's welfare and to arrange for his referral to such medical specialists as he required. {d) A duty to speak to the Claimant and ascertain his views, wishes , anxieties and complaints in as far as was appropriate to his age and understanding. 13 (e) 5.2 A duty to have regard to long term planning for the Claimant and for his longterm welfare in addition to his immediate needs. Further, each of the members of staff employed by the Defendant at Haut De La Garenne Children's home who was responsible for the care of the Claimant owed to him a duty of care, which included: (a) A duty not to injure the Claimant whether by their own deliberate acts, their own careless acts or the acts of others and to protect the Claimant from physical, emotional, psychiatric and psychological damage. (b) A duty to monitor the Claimant's physica l, emotional, psychiatric and psychological welfare. (c) A duty to make arrangements to provide such medical (including psychiatric and therapeutic) treatment as was reasonably necessary for the Claimant's welfare and to arrange for his referral to such medical specialists as he required. (d) A duty to ascertain the Claimant's views, wishes, anxieties and complaints in as far as was appropriate to his age and understanding. (e) A duty to report to the Defendant any abuse that any employee was aware the Claimant had suffered, whether that abuse was in respect of members of staff or that of guests at Haut De La Garenne. 5.3 At all relevant times the Defendant was vicariously liable for any breach of duty of care and any deliberate acts of abuse carried out by staff in the course of purporting to care for children at Haut De La Garenne whether in the home itself or on trips or holidays from the home or elsewhere on the part of any of its servants or agents including those employed at Haut De La Garenne. 5.4 When the Claimant was placed at Haut De La Garenne the Claimant was then a vulnerable child . Complaints of abuse 6.1 Whilst living at Haut De La Garenne the Claimant was physically, sexually and emotionally abused . 6.2 The particulars of the abuse are that the Claimant was sexually abused on a repeated basis by a member of staff known to the Claimant as and identified by him as Thomas Hamon. 6.3 The particulars of the sexual abuse are: (i) The Claimant was required to take hold of Hamon's penis, and rub it; (ii) The Claimant had to perform fellatio on Hamon; (iii) Hamon would take hold of and rub the Claimant's penis; (iv) Hamon would perform fellatio on the Claimant; 14 6.4 (v) On one occasion Hamon anally raped the Claimant; and (vi) Hamon indecently touched the Claimant. In support of his case the Claimant relies upon Hamon's conviction before the Royal Court in 2006. Breach of duty and/or negligence 7.1 The said abuse of the Claimant was when he was in the Defendant's care. The abuse was carried out by an employee of the Defendant at Haut De La Garenne. The abuse was caused or materially contributed to by the breach of duty and/or negligence of the Defendant and/or its servants or agents for whom the Defendant is vicariously liable. 7.2 The Defendant is vicariously liable for the deliberate acts of its employees which are described above and which caused severe injury to the Claimant. Further, the Defendant is vicariously liable for the actions of its employees carried out in the course of their employment. 7.3 Further the Defendant was negligent as follows: 7.3.1 By employing members of staff to work with the children when they were unsuitable to do so as evidenced by the fact that a very vu lnerable child was sexually abused by a member of staff when they were supposed to be supervising and looking after them . 7.3.2 In allowing staff to work unsupervised with children before ascertaining whether they were suitable employees to do so and failing to ascertain that they were not. 7.3.3 In employing staff at Haut De La Garenne who were not sufficiently vigilant to prevent the Claimant being abused. 7.3.4 In employing staff who encouraged or acquiesced in the abuse of children, and in the Claimant's case 7.3.5 Failing to take reasonable steps to implement a proper system of care and supervision at Haut De La Garenne which would keep children at that chi ldren's home reasonably safe from injury and abuse including emotional abuse. 7.3.6 Failing to carry out regular and adequate medical examinations to ensure that any injury to the Claimant at Haut De La Garenne was identified, diagnosed, and suitably and adequately treated. 7.3.7 Failing to provide for the Claimant a social worker or other suitable responsible adult to whom he confide in. 7.3.8 Failing to provide a social worker or other su itable responsible adult who would have ascertained that the Cla imant had been abused. 15 Injury loss and damage 8.1 As a result of the negligence and/or breach of duty of the Defendant, and or the negligence and/or deliberate acts of its servants or agents for whom the Defendant is vicariously liable the Claimant has suffered severe personal injury loss and damage. 8.2 That damage includes the pain and suffering at the time of each of the incidents of abuse which occurred. 8.3 It also includes past, current and future psychiatric injury. It is proposed to obtain a psychiatric report from Professor Anthony Maden and we are prepared to do so on a joint basis, and to that end please find attached a copy of curriculum vitae. 8.4 The Claimant claims damages for pain suffering and loss of amenity and for the abuse he suffered. He also claims: (a) A sum for psychological counselling to be held in a fund by the Defendant and drawn on by the Cla imant if he becomes able to undergo counselling , which he is currently not able to contemplate. The amount of the fund will be ascertained from Professor Maden. The time limit that the fund would be available to the Claimant will be discussed with the Defendant. (b) A global sum for his past and future loss of earning capacity Limitation We do not consider prescription (limitation) to be an issue in this case because of the aforementioned facts, and given the circumstances but, nevertheless we invite you to agree to a "limitation holiday" without prejudice to any limitation defence that you might have. This would avoid the expense of having to issue proceedings. If you do not agree and proceedings have to be issued we reserve the right to refer to this letter on the issue of costs. During the "limitation holiday" further enquires can be made by both parties, medical evidence obtained and disclosure can be made. The ulimitation holiday" is terminable by either party giving the other in writing 28 days notice. Disclosure This is a case where disclosure must be made. We need you to disclose please the following: (1) (2) Al l records relating to our client in your possession and/or control; Al l records relating to Haut De La Garenne and for the avoidance of doubt and in particular: (i) punishment book; (ii) registers of attendance or intake or roll; 16 (iii) medicine book or details maintained by the matron or superintendent in respect of the administration of medicines and treatment; (iv) (v) guidance and information provided to staff concerning the administration of corporal punishment; visitor's book; (vi) guidance and information provided to staff concerning the care of children; (vii) details of staff employed including individual files; (viii) details of voluntary workers; (ix) correspondence, memoranda and other material relating to the care of the children, the administration of corporal punishment, and the use of solitary confinement; (x) the accounts; (xi) diet sheets, menus, and any other documentation concerning the client's dietary needs; (xii) inspections, and reports relating to these; (xiii) staff disciplinary records; and (xiv) all management records. Insurance It may be that the States is insured in respect of the Claimant's claim and therefore the insurer should be notified without delay, otherwise the availability of cover may be affected as well as the conduct of any civil action. Public Enquiry We understand that there is to be a public enquiry concerning the abuse of ch ildren at Haut de Ia Garenne. We must ask on the Claimant's behalf that: • His opinion is sought and considered at to the ambit and purpose of the enquiry; That he is given the opportunity lo give evidence to t hat enquiry; and That he can be legally represented at that enquiry. The way forward The Claimant has no desire to become embroiled in litigation and has been very distressed by the media publicity generated by the case. He has been further upset by suggestions in the media that claims have been made suggesting that the allegations of abuse have been 17 exaggerated, and of course you do not need to us to tell you that this could have the effect of aggravating our client's psychological damage, and in turn any award of damages. With that in mind we trust that the States will agree to resolve our client's claim outside the adversarial process. We look forward to hearing from you. Yours faithfully Verisona 18 _- ... , STATESOF~~J~··~fi1· ~ill dl I \ l ·' I ' I I ....F'I ~ WITNESS STATE:vJENT \-, ( '· I'( ,_. I ...---"' Page I of4 ,..:.·l . Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jerscy) Law 1998 Sl:1tement of: 124 Age (under 20 only) Recorded by: DC CARTER Commenced at L0:00 h rs on 09/1 112005 and Concluded at 13:30 brs on 09/11/05 "Thls statement (consisting of 4 page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and r make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, r shall be liable to prosecution if 1 have wil lfully stated anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true". Date: 16/11/2005 Signed: Wit en an inj111y results from an incident, tile folloJVing should be completed "In the event of the victim of this crime claiming compensation through the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, 1 hereby authorise the States of Jersey Police to release a copy of my statement to the board." Date: 16/11/2005 Signed: In the case of wit11esses who produce exhibits wflicfl /rave been created ot received in the course ofa trade, business or profession or otller occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the Jvitness statement MUST coutain the following endorsement:''l am employed as at . As such, part of my responsibilities includes making wimess statements on behalf of . I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from infom1ation obtained by me fi·om the business records of . These records may be either paper based or computer based, which have been subsequenUy printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of thc Police Procedures and Climinal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to and were compiled, at every stage by staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied." Date: Signed: I am the above named person and I reside at the address known to the police. I am currently following an about eight years ago. receiving and I contacted the police last week having read in the Jersey Evening Post on Thursday 3rd November 2005, the article relating to Thomas Hamon and his appearance in the Magistrates Court, relating to indecency with children. I don't normally read the section on the Magistrates Court and on this particular occasion I was reading something on the same page and saw the name Hamon, I said to my wife that 'cunt'. I can't say why, but the name Hamon really hit me, not Thomas. I told my wife before we got married that that I had been abused when living in the home; however I did not tell her everything that happened to me. As a child I lived in the children's home called Haute de La Garenne and the name Hamon brought back memories of the time I had spent in the home. To be sure that I was relating to the same person I contacted the Police Station and spoke to a police officer, Detective Constable Parker in the Child Protection Team. I asked the officer if these incidents happened in the Haute de Ia Garenne children's home and if Hamon had a wife who was working there at the time. . Detective Constable Parker was unable to disclose this information to me and asked me to contact Detective Constable Brian Carter. 19 1453 STATES OF .JERSEY POLICE Having contacted Detective Constable Carter, arrangements were made for him to attend my home address on Wednesday g'h November 2005, where he took notes in relation to my complaint. I know it is a long time age that I was In the home, the early nineteen sixties. I believe that I was in the home between the ages of eight and eleven and a second period when I was about thirteen years of age. When the abuse was occurring I was in the JUniors and slept in the junior dormitory. If I recall correctly there were ten beds in my dormitory. The junior, juniors were in an adjoining room and you could get to this room from mine through double doors. To get to my room, I would have to walk up the stairs from the direction of the dining hall and past a room used by a female member of staff who I believe was . I can't remember if this room had an upstairs and downstairs, but my bed was next to this room. 195 I remember that was in my dormitory, I haven't seen him for years, probably five years or so it is 152, 348, 41 & 342 and even longer since I have spoken to him. There was also 493 was the bully in the block and later took his own life. 493 whose parents were The first incident that I can recall is when I woke up coming [ejaculating] he was 'wanking' me in fact, I thought it was a great dream and I didn't know what was going on. It was like having a wet dream until you woke up and he was there. He would also suck me off, I know it sounds sick but that is the one I really enjoyed the most. On numerous occasions I would be in my bed and he would be lying on top of me, in factl1is weight on my body had woken me. I would always have my pyjamas on and more often than not there would be either a sheet or blanket between us. He would be rubbing himself up and down on me as though he was having sex with a woman. I remember it distinctively, his weight, he was so heavy and he was always dressed. I never enjoyed that, it felt like rape to me and of course the usual hand over the mouth so I wouldn't scream when I woke up. He became more confident and when he realised that I was waking up, he became more adventurous. He would get onto the bed and we would end up masturbating each other. He then started performing oral sex on me and after three or Four occasions he asked me to do it to him, but I found his penis too big, so I wanked [masturbated] him instead. lived in the room next to my bed. She would call me into the room saying that she As I have explained needed a job done. When I went into the room she would be standing at the sink facing the mirror washing her exposed breasts. I could see her reflection in the mirror and as a boy I would try to get a closer look. She would then act surprised, as though she has been caught out, however she never appeared shocked to me. I remember that she was always flirting. On other occasions she would make out that I had not seen her, Mr. Hamon would then come into the room. I remember being aroused and he would rub my penis over my clothing. He never touched me inside of my clothing when in this room. I really enjoyed this and I came [ejaculated] several times in my clothing. I cannot say exactly how many times this happened, somewhere between five and ten times. In hindsight she knew exactly what she was doing, she always had clothes on covering her lower body and she could see that he was fondling me. She knew what he was doing, she set me up. 1remember that as children we played on the field at the back of the home. I would always want to stay behind because I didn't really want to go back inside. He would always conduct examinations on me, almost like playing doctors and nurses. This never happened inside, always outside in the back fields during the summer. He would strip me and then masturbate me and he would ask me to do it to him. I would ejaculate and so would he. He would also give me oral sex and I would do it to him. I didn't like having to give him oral sex; I found his penis too big to put into my mouth. When I think back he must have had a big cock and this happened on two or three occasions. 20 1454 STATES OJ:l' JERSEY POLICE Th1s sounds daft but he seemed to gel more pleasure out of giving it to you than you giving it to him. This happened to me on loads of occasions and eventually stopped when I refused his advances when he wanted to sodomise me. Sometimes it was nearly every night, I can't tell what time of night this 11appened and I neve1 performed oral sex on h1m in the dormitory He also tried to sodomise me in the field. He tried to put his penis up my arse. It was so painful I refused and I remember screaming. His penis as I have said seemed huge to me I remember that he couldn't do it to me because I fought against him . Following this, all the abuse stopped. She was a real sod to me after this. In hindsight it must have taken them months to plan this. Soon after they left the Children's Home, no one can remember why he left and looking back they both left at the same time. I'm sure the system knew something about them and they were only at the home for a couple of years. He never forced me to do these things, he just coaxed me: he was never bad to me. I have tried to put everything that has happened to me to the back of my mind. As a teenager I had loads of girlfriends, who would go to bed with me, but I never wanted to have sex with them, I couldn't have sex with them. I was a virgin until I met my current wife, she seduced me in to having sex and she taught me everything that I now know. He really caused me to suffer emotional turmoil and even after I was married I had oral sex with a male friend. I won't name this person. The reason for having oral sex with this male friend is that after having sex with my wife and her wanting kids, I needed to find out where my sexuality lay. I needed to make sure that I was the right person for this before committing myself. Because of the abuse that I have suffered I have never let my wife give me oral sex. Too many things have happened in my life and I blame the Children's Home for this. I have always kept this a secret, I never told any of the lads what happened to me, it was my own private little secret. I have always been very secretive as a boy and I have always been a bit of a loner and that is how I have survived I have told my Doctor, Doctor Ellis of 51 David Place who asked me why I never prosecuted and I told him that I thought these people were now dead. This all happened a long t1me ago. I cannot categorically say that it was Thomas Hamon who abused me however the name in the paper instantly rang a bell with me. As I have said, the man who abused me, is, I believe Thomas Hamon and that he was the female who lived in the flat adjoining my dormitory. If I was to see a picture of Hamon I would be able to confirm if I have got the correct person. I remember that both the male and female were and that she had hanging around the boys, I never saw her with the girls. He may have had there was something about his hair colour that rings a bell. hair and eyes. She was always hair and the reason I say this is that I am prepared to go to court with my complaint. 21 1455 STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Pnge 4 of 4 D 0 Address (home) House No: 3 House Name: Street: DistrictNillage: Parish/Town: Island/County: Tel ~o. Home: Date ofBirth: DISCLOSE 124 Name of Witness: Address _(_work) House No: Street: District/Village: Parish/Town: Island/County: Tel No. Work: N 0 T " I Postcode: · l Tel No. Mobile: :-:. , House Name: I Postcode: 1953 Place of Birth: JERSEY Occupation: U/E SICK l have been told about the VSS servtcc and would --- to be referred BLOCK OUT DATES NOT AVAILABLE INCONVENIENT DATES -1 2 6 5 9 10 13 14 17 18 21 22 25 26 29 30 - 3 4 1 2 7 8 5 6 11 12 9 10 15 16 13 14 19 20 17 18 23 24 21 22 27 28 25 26 31 29 30 3 7 11 4 8 12 1 5 9 15 16 13 19 20 17 23 24 21 27 28 25 31 29 2 6 10 14 18 22 26 30 --- -·-· 3 7 11 15 19 23 27 31 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 1 2 3 5 6 7 9 10 11 13 14 15 17 18 19 21 22 23 25 26 27 29 30 31 1 8 5 12 9 16 13 20 17 24 21 28 25 29 4 2 6 10 14 18 22 26 30 3 7 11 15 19 23 27 31 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 1 5 9 13 17 21 25 29 2 3 6 7 10 11 14 15 18 19 22 i23 26 27 30 31 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 ,. 22 ISLAND OF JERSEY Particulars of the convictions recorded against T hom as Cha rles H amon in the Royal Court of J ersey on th e 20 1h day of January, 2006. · STATEMENT OF OFFENCE: PARTICULA RS OF OFFENCE: SENTENCE: Count I Indecent assault T homas Charles Hamon, on various occasions between 17th December, 1964 No sentence passed by the Court as accused died prior to sentenci ng and 16th December, 1966, in the Parish of St. Martin, indecently assaulted Child A, a child aged len or e leven years. Count 2 Indecent assault Thomas Charles Hamon , on vanous occasions between 24th June, I 966 and 23rd June, 1968, in the Island of Jersey, indecently assaulted Chi ld B, a child aged twelve or thirteen years. Co unt3 Indecent assault Thoma!> C.: harl e~ between 13th Ha mon, on an occasion May, 1968 and 15th February, 1969, in the Parish of St. Helier, Page 1 of 5 of the Certificate of convictions recorded against Thomas Charles Hamon 1 23 indecentl y assaulted Child C, a chi ld aged --------------------------------- twelve years. Count 4 Indecent assault Thomas Charles Hamon, on vanous occasions, other than Count 3, between 13th May, 1968 and 15th February, 1969, in the Island of Jersey, indecentl y assaulted Child C, a child aged twelve years. Co unt S Indecent assault Thomas Charles l larnon, on an occasion, other than Counts 3 and 4, between 13th May, 1968 and 15th February, 1969, in the Island of Jersey, indecently assaulted Child C, a child aged twelve years. Count 6 Indecent assault Thomas Charles llamon , on vanous occasions between 6th January, 1969 and 3rd June, 1969, in the Pari sh of St. Helier, indecently assaulted Child D, a child aged twelve years. Count 7 Indecent assault Thomas ( "harlcs !Iamon, on various occasions, other than Count 6, between 6th January, 1969 and 3rd June, 1969, in the Page 2 of 5 of the Certificate of convictions recorded against Thomas Charles I Jam on 24 Island of Jersey, indecently assaulted Child D, a child aged twelve years. Thomas Charlc<; !Iamon, on an occasiOn Count 8 Indecent assault between 13th February, 1980 and 12th f ebruary, 1982, in the Parish of St. Helier, indecentl y assaulted Child E, a child aged fourteen or fifteen years. Count 9 Indecent assault Th<)J11US Charles Hamon , on various occasions, other than Count 8, between 13th February, 1980 and 12th February, 1982, in the Island of Jersey, indecently assaulted Chil d E, a child aged fourteen or fifteen years. Coun t JO Indecent assault Thomas Charles I Iamon. on var1ous occasions between Jrd October, 1983 and 9th August, 1985, in the Parish of St Helier, indecently assaulted Child F, a chi ld aged twelve or thirteen years. Coun t 11 Indecent assault Thomas Charles I Iamon , on an occasion between 30th December, 1985 and 29th Page 3 of 5 of the Certifi cate of convictions recorded against Thomas Charles Tlarnon ) 25 December, 1986, in the Parish of St. Helier, indecently assaulted Child G, a chi ld aged thirteen years. Co untl2 Thomas Indecent assault Charl~ s llarn on, on various occasions between 9th March, 1987 and 8th March, 1989, in the Parish of St. Hclicr, indecently assaulted Chi ld H, a chi ld aged twelve or thirteen years. I certify that the above particulars have been extracted from the records of the Royal Court of Jersey. Addendum: On 2rf" January, 2006, Thomas Charles Hamon having pleaded guilty to Counts 1 -12 inclusive was remanded in custody to be brought before the Superior Number ofthe Royal Court on 10111 April, 2006, to be sentenced. Sentencing did not take place on the 10111 April, 2006, as Tlwma::; Charles !Iamon had been admitted to the General Hospital. The Register ofDeaths (ID 1973) records that Thomas Charles Hamon "died in the General Hospital, St Helier, on the morning of Wednesday 191" April, 2006, where he had been admitted ten days earlier from H.M Prison La Moye, where he was a prisoner, after rupturing his right patellar tendon whilst attempting to kick the ball during a game offootball (no other person being close to him at that time),· death was due to a massive pulmonary Page 4 of 5 of the Certificate of convictions recorded against Thomas Charles Hamon ) ) 26 embolism due to leg vein thrombo.r · ~. which resulted from immobilisationfo. A'ing surgery Lo repair the said ruptured patellar tendon. ,. Dated this 29'" day of October, 2010 Deputy Judicial Greffier Page 5 of 5 of the Certificate of convictions recorded against Thomas Charles I Tam on 27 / G:," " I ,, i i 'i STATES OF ÿRSEY?ÿOLI3CE! , \, :..5 / Page i of 4 WITNESS STATEMENT Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Precedure)(Jersey) Law 1998 Statement of 124 Age (under 20 only) Recorded by: DC CARTER Commenced at 10:00 hrs on 09/11/2005 and Concluded at 13:30 hrs on 09/11/05 "This statement (consisting of 4 page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have willfully stated anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true". Date: 16/11/2005 Signed: When an injury results from an incident, the following should be completed "In the event of the victim of this crime claiming compensation through the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, I hereby authorise the States of Jersey Police to release a copy of my statement to the board." Date: 16/11/2005 Signed: In the case of witnesses who produce exhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occttpation i.e. compttter printottts or copy bank records, the witness statement MUST contain the following endorsement:- "I am employed as at . As such, part of my responsibilities includes making witness statements on behalf of . I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of . These records may be either paper based or computer based, which have been subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to and were compiled, at every stage by staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied." Date: Signed: I am the above named person and 1 reside at the address known to the police. I am currently receiving following an about eight years ago. and I contacted the police last week having read in the Jersey Evening Post on Thursday 3rd November 2005, the article relating to Thomas Hamon and his appearance in the Magistrates Court, relating to indecency with children. I don't normally read the section on the Magistrates Court and on this particular occasion I was reading something on the same page and saw the name Hamon, I said to my wife that 'cunt'. I can't say why, but the name Hamon really hit me, not Thomas. I told my wife before we got married that that I had been abused when living in the home; however I did not tell her everything that happened to me. As a child 1 lived in the children's home called Haute de La Garenne and the name Hamon brought back memories of the time I had spent in the home. To be sure that I was relating to the same person 1 contacted the Police Station and spoke to a police officer, Detective Constable Parker in the Child Protection Team. I asked the officer if these incidents happened in the Haute de la Garenne children's home and if Hamon had a wife who was working there at the time. . Detective Constable Parker was unable to disclose this information to me and asked me to contact Detective Constable Brian Carter. 1 1453 STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Having contacted Detective Constable Carter, arrangements were made for him to attend my home address on Wednesday 9th November 2005, where he took notes in relation to my complaint. I know it is a long time age that I was in the home, the early nineteen sixties. I believe that I was in the home between the ages of eight and eleven and a second period when I was about thirteen years of age. When the abuse was occurring I was in the juniors and slept in the junior dormitory. If I recall correctly there were ten beds in my dormitory. The junior, juniors were in an adjoining room and you could get to this room from mine through double doors. To get to my room, I would have to walk up the stairs from the direction of the dining hall and past a room used by a female member of staff who I believe was I can't remember if this room had an upstairs and downstairs, but my bed was next to this room. 195 I remember that was in my dormitory, I haven't seen him for years, probably five years or so it is 152, 348, 41 & 342 even longer since I have spoken to him. There was also 493 whose parents were . 493 was the bully in the block and later took his own life. The first incident that I can recall is when I woke up coming [ejaculating] he was 'wanking' me in fact, I thought it was a great dream and I didn't know what was going on. It was like having a wet dream until you woke up and he was there. He would also suck me off, I know it sounds sick but that is the one I really enjoyed the most. On numerous occasions 1 would be in my bed and he would be lying on top of me, in fact his weight on my body had woken me. 1 would always have my pyjamas on and more often than not there would be either a sheet or blanket between us. He would be rubbing himself up and down on me as though he was having sex with a woman. I remember it distinctively, his weight, he was so heavy and he was always dressed. I never enjoyed that, it felt like rape to me and of course the usual hand over the mouth so I wouldn't scream when I woke up. He became more confident and when he realised that I was waking up, he became more adventurous. He would get onto the bed and we would end up masturbating each other. He then started performing oral sex on me and after three or four occasions he asked me to do it to him, but I found his penis too big, so I wanked [masturbated] him instead. As I have explained lived in the room next to my bed. She would call me into the room saying that she needed a job done. When I went into the room she would be standing at the sink facing the mirror washing her exposed breasts. I could see her reflection in the mirror and as a boy I would try to get a closer look. She would then act surprised, as though she has been caught out, however she never appeared shocked to me. I remember that she was always flirting. On other occasions she would make out that I had not seen her, Mr. Hamon would then come into the room. I remember being aroused and he would rub my penis over my clothing. He never touched me inside of my clothing when in this room. I really enjoyed this and I came [ejaculated] several times in my clothing. I cannot say exactly how many times this happened, somewhere between five and ten times. In hindsight she knew exactly what she was doing, she always had clothes on covering her lower body and she could see that he was fondling me. She knew what he was doing, she set me up. I remember that as children we played on the field at the back of the home. I would always want to stay behind because I didn't really want to go back inside. He would always conduct examinations on me, almost like playing doctors and nurses. This never happened inside, always outside in the back fields during the summer. He would strip me and then masturbate me and he would ask me to do it to him. I would ejaculate and so would he. He would also give me oral sex and I would do it to him. I didn't like having to give him oral sex; I found his penis too big to put into my mouth. When I think back he must have had a big cock and this happened on two or three occasions. 2 1454 STATES OF JERSEY POLICE This sounds daft but he seemed to get more pleasure out of giving it to you than you giving it to him. This happened to me on loads of occasions and eventually stopped when I refused his advances when he wanted to sodomise me. Sometimes it was nearly every night, I can't tell what time of night this happened and I never performed oral sex on him in the dormitory He also tried to sodomise me in the field. He tried to put his penis up my arse. It was so painful I refused and I remember screaming. His penis as I have said seemed huge to me. I remember that he couldn't do it to me because I fought against him. Following this, all the abuse stopped. She was a real sod to me after this. In hindsight it must have taken them months to plan this. Soon after they left the Children's Home, no one can remember why he left and looking back they both left at the same time. I'm sure the system knew something about them and they were only at the home for a couple of years. He never forced me to do these things, he just coaxed me; he was never bad to me. I have tried to put everything that has happened to me to the back of my mind. As a teenager I had loads of girlfriends, who would go to bed with me, but I never wanted to have sex with them, I couldn't have sex with them. I was a virgin until I met my current wife, she seduced me in to having sex and she taught me everything that I now know. He really caused me to suffer emotional turmoil and even after I was married I had oral sex with a male friend. I won't name this person. The reason for having oral sex with this male friend is that after having sex with my wife and her wanting kids, I needed to find out where my sexuality lay. I needed to make sure that I was the right person for this before committing myself. Because of the abuse that I have suffered I have never let my wife give me oral sex. Too many things have happened in my life and I blame the Children's Home for this. I have always kept this a secret, I never told any of the lads what happened to me, it was my own private little secret. I have always been very secretive as a boy and I have always been a bit of a loner and that is how I have survived. I have told my Doctor, Doctor Ellis of 51 David Place who asked me why I never prosecuted and I told him that I thought these people were now dead. This all happened a long time ago. I cannot categorically say that it was Thomas Hamon who abused me however the name in the paper instantly rang a bell with me. As I have said, the man who abused me, is, I believe Thomas Hamon and that he was the female who lived in the flat adjoining my dormitory. If I was to see a picture of Hamon I would be able to confirm if l have got the correct person. 1 remember that both the male and female were and that she had hanging around the boys, I never saw her with the girls. He may have had there was something about his hair colour that rings a bell. hair and eyes. She was always hair and the reason I say this is that I am prepared to go to court with my complaint. 3 STATES OF JERSEY POLICE 1 455 Page 4 of 4 DO NOT DISCLOSE 124 Name of Witness: Address (home) House No HouseName: Street: G District/Village: Parish/Town: Island/County: Tel No. Home: Postcode: ] Tel No. Mobile: Address (work) House No: Street: House Name: District/Village: Parish/Town: Island/County: ] Postcode: Tel No. Work: Date of Birth: 1953 Place of Birth: JERSEY Occupation: U/E SICK I have been told about the VSS service and would --- to be referred BLOCK OUT DATES NOT AVAILABLE INCONVENIENT DATES 1 2 13 4 5 9 13 17 21 25 29 6 10 14 18 22 26 30 7 11 15 19 23 27 31 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 8 5 6 7 8 5 6 7 12 9 10 11 12 9 10 11 16 13 14 15 16 13 14 15 20 17 18 19 20 17 18 19 24 21 22 !23 24 21 22 23 28 25 26 27 28 25 26 29 30 31 29 30 31 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 8 5 6 7 8 5 6 7 12 9 10 11 12 9 10 11 16 13 14 15 16 13 14 15 20 17 18 19 20 17 18 19 24 21 '22 23 124 21 22 !23 28 25 26 !27 28 25 26 27 29 30 31 29 30 31 4 1 2 3 4 8 5 6 7 8 12 9 10 11 12 16 13 14 15 16 20 17 18 19 126 24 21 22 23 24 28 25 '26 27 28 29 30 !31 ,iliÿ ::ÿ.ÿ'ÿ:ÿ,.i.?ÿ,' . '-').Lÿ,i"-" 4 1437 Form MG 11 (T) Page 1 of 15 124 Statement of STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Witness Statement Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jersey) Law 1988 124 Statement of: Age if under 20: OVER 18 (if over 20 insert 'over 20') Occupation: This statement (consisting of 11 page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true. 124 Signature: RN D ate: 27/05/2008 Tick if witness evidence is visually recorded [] (supply witness details on rear) In the case of witnesses who produce exhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the witness statement MUST contain the following endorsement:"I am employed as ...... at ....... As such, part of my responsibilities includes making witness statements on behalf of ........ I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of ....... These records may be either paper based or computer based, which have been subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to ........ and were compiled, at every stage by staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied." Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 1 1438 Date: Form MG 11 (T) Page 2 of 15 124 Statement of Signed Will state: 1 I am T 124 nd I am malting this statement of my own free will. During this statement I will describe certain events that happened to me whilst I lived at Haut De La Garenne Children's Home in Jersey. I have not given any names or identified any places that are not purely within my own knowledge. The Police have not forced me to say anything that I do not want to say or did not know before the Police spoke with me. 2 I was born on the 1 of D 953 and I first went into the Haut de La Garenne when I was about seven or eight years of age and I was there until I was about twelve Years of age. I went back again when I was roughly about thirteen and for about six month's something like that. But the second time doesn't really matter that much. I did have a t some stage when I was there and that was 3 When I first went into Haut de la Garenne, the main people that I can remember there were the TILBROOK's who were in charge, the 225 & 491 who were or I believe that they were at that stage. There were so many staff going in and out. But the main people I remember were the TILBROOK's, the 225 & 491 nd the WILLIAM's and they were couples. I never knew their first names because we were always told to call them Mr or Mrs and never be personal. The WILLIAM's were from Wales. There were the HAMON's who were just boyfriend and girlfriend and his first name was Thomas. There were loads of individual staff and I find it difficult to remember them and I think it is probably because they were the nicer people. There were some nice staff there and I believe some of the staff were just as scared as the kids actually. 4 The WILLIAM's were in charge of the intermediates and the 225 & 491 ere in charge of the seniors. But in the juniors we didn't really have one. When I first went to Haut de la Garenne, I was in the junior and I have been in all three groups through the years. 5 When I was very young the TILBROOK's were always there and when I left the TILBROOK's were still there. The 225 & 491 , the WILLIAMS and the HAMON's came whilst I Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 2 1439 Form MG 11 (T) Page 3 of 15 124 Statement of was there. But I cannot remember other staff that were actually there when I was there. None of these were there when I first started apart from the TILBROOK's. 6 The reason that I went into the home was because my mother and she had was single children. I was the oldest and did not have a father. I was hyperactive and I suppose naughty would be the right word. When I was a one and a half years old my father left. My mother did not like me, as she blamed me for my father going, don't ask me why. When my mother had another child, her boyfriend, who was an alcoholic, used to hit her about and all that. I used to fight him and she used to try and stop it. I didn't get on with them in my household and to get attention I used to steal things and be dealt with by the police. They were very minor things and I did not go to court over it. Eventually they said that I was not happy at home and so they sent me to the children's home at Haut de le Garenne. 7 My sister L s also sent to the home but she does not want to get involved at all. I have other siblings but they did not go to Haut de la Garenne. 8 My first few months I quite enjoyed in a funny sort of way. 9 The routine never really changed whilst I was there. You got up around half six in the morning and you had your breakfast about seven. We got ready for school and you got inspected by your bed to make sure that everything was all right. We were all given specific rooms to clean like the dining room, the kitchen or something like that and I had to do the cleaning of the dormitory. There were only two junior schools and two senior schools that you would go and the bus would come. You got on your bus and depending on what school you went to the bus took you to school with a pack lunch. We stayed at school all day and the bus would pick you up, back to the home. When you got back to the home you take your uniform off, get changed, polish your shoes and boots and sit down and have your tea. Different people would be told who to clean up the kitchen or do the washing up in the kitchen or who was to clean all the dishes. 10 Sometimes they would use this as a punishment because who would want to clean the dishes for seventy to a hundred people. There was a dishwasher that used really hot water and I was scalded myself more than once because of it and I still have . I was aged about 10 when this happened. You had to do the cleaning of the dishes in the evening and the Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 3 1440 Form MG 11 (T) Page 4 of 15 124 Statement of morning and that was used as a punishment. You try cleaning three courses of dishes for seventy people. 11 People like me and 493 lways used o get a lot of punishments because we used to buck the system and we would not be dominated by them. A lot of people were frightened by the staff, I mean really frightened by the staff. But there was like a small group of us, three or four of us, that weren't frightened of the staff and we would not be told to do things if we thought that they were unreasonable and we would say 'no I am not doing it'. It would be the same five or six that used to get these punishments. 12 I have been asked by the police to name boys or girls who used to be at the home at the same time as I was. There was my best mat who hung himself 342 152 & 348 303 493 301 ; and I am not sure of the other brother ; 172 302 194 can't remember his surname 41 ; but I nd there was a fourth one there but I can't remember his name. There were loads of others but I can't name them all. I have been asked abou 91 but I can't remember him being there. Because if I was in the juniors and he was in the seniors I would not see him very often apart from mealtimes that would be the only time you would see them often. 13 I know four or five people that I have spoken to in the last four or five years and some of they don't want to get involved in this case at all and who have all been sexually abused. Although some people have jumped on the band wagon on this and they don't know the difference between capital punishment and ordinary punishment. In my time to me, personally it was more mental and physical abuse. 14 The worst thing for me, whilst I was at Haut de la Garenne was the mental abuse because I had strong willpower and they knew that they couldn't get much from me from physical abuse. But the worse physical abuse that I ever had was the buckle of a belt. 15 The reason that I received the punishment of being beaten with a belt buckle was because I had run away. The reason that I had run away was because of the mental abuse that I was getting at the time, I found it a strain and I found it too much to handle. Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 4 1441 Form MG 11 (T) Page 5 of 15 124 Statement o 16 An example of the mental abuse was when I was roughly ten years of age. I went for my tea, I was never a man who liked sweets. I would have my soup and my main meal. I would sit on TILBROOK's table by the way. This is an example of how he was clever because he never used to hit any one because he knew how to punish people mentally. 17 I am not sure that TILBROOK was ever aware as to what physical punishments that we ever got and whatever went on. He didn't want to get involved and he would turn a blind eye to it. But he always did the mental punishments that we got, he was always down to that one. He did use to cane the children and he used to have a cane that we called the 'Black Bomber' because it was quite a heavy thing and it was black in colour. He has caned me in the past. 18 I sat at the table and he said 'you haven't had your sweet yet' and I said 'I don't like Treacle, I'm not having it'. He said 'You're having it, you're not leaving this table till you have it'. I said, 'Well I'm bloody well not having it'. I wouldn't have it and I sat at that table for three days, without anything to eat. I didn't even go to school. When I say three days I mean three days, sat at that table and it was TILBROOK that made me do it. The other staff were obviously well aware of it and there was a couple of them who, when no one was looking they would pass me a sandwich or something, so I could eat something. There wasn't someone with me all the time but someone would come and check on me. Sometimes I would sneak to the toilet. If I had got up and gone to my room or gone out then someone would have known. 19 It ended because everyone had seen me sitting there for a few days and TILBROOK had proven his point to all the other people that if you don't eat then this is what you are going to get. No one was going to refuse to eat again would they after that. 20 In my own mind I wanted to defy them any way, I wanted to see if I could do it. Because I had strong will power, but it's hard to look back and say that. All I can remember, well even to this very day and also when I was in that if I didn't see a reason for doing something then I would not do it 21 It was after this that I ran away for about four days. I was with someone but I can't remember who it was. This other person was going to rob a church and I didn't want anything to do with it. So I went to a local farmer and he contacted the police and they picked me up and I was interviewed Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 5 1442 Form MG 11 (T) Page 6 of 15 124 Statement o and then they returned me to the home. I told the Police about what had happened to me and they said that they would make a report. 22 When I got back to the home I was taken to TILBROOK's office which was below his flat and 491 was there, because he was the punishment man. That was when I got the belt buckle. TILBROOK said words to the effect that I would not be running away again. He said to that he would leave it down to him to whatever punishment he should give. 491 491 took me up to my room and he told me to take my trousers and pants off, which I did and to lie on my bed. I thought that I was going to get the cane but I looked behind me and I saw 491 removing his own belt from around his waist. It was only when I turned my head I saw him taking his belt off and I thought 'shit'. I do remember I did 'shit myself and I wasn't one who was easily scared. He hit me six times with the buckle end of the belt on my buttocks. All I can say that it was a big leather belt and it was bloody heavy. It 'fucking hurt', I remember that and I definitely bled. When it was happening I just put my hand in my mouth and just tried not to scream or anything. I tell you one thing if I had a gun there and then I would have killed him that's for sure. 23 After he beat me, he said to get up and go and have a bath. I know I had a bath and I went downstairs. I was struggling to walk and I met a female member of staff, but I can't remember her name. I really liked her and she was a lovely lass with hair and was , early . As far as I know she worked on the boy's side at Haut de la Greene on a day shift. Her boyfriend was in a and he used to come up and show us how to the 24 She could see that I was struggling to walk and she asked what had happened. I said 'that I had just had my punishment' and she said 'what do you mean had your punishment' and I said that 'I had the belt for running away'. She said 'does it hurt' and I said 'yes' she said 'is it bleeding' and I said 'yes'. She took me into the staff room and she had a look at it and she said 'you stay there my love and I'll be back in a minute'. She came back and put some lint or plasters on it or whatever it was stuff on it and stopped the bleeding. I think I still have my wife say's I still from this incident, well . The beating with the belt buckle only happened once. I know that I did not go to school for a week because I was too sore. 25 The other children were either at school or in the playroom when this happened, I can't remember which, but it was the afternoon when it happened. Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 6 1443 Form MG 11 (T) Page 7 of 15 124 Statement o 26 The way the beds and lockers were designed anyway, it was like having a private area and your own personal area. They could do things to you there and somebody could be a couple of beds away and unless they actually hear you scream, they would not know that anything was happening there. That is why sexual abuse could happen without people really knowing. 27 In relation to the cane, I was not scared of it, I've got to be honest. The cane to me was nothing and they even did that at school in them days. It was a regular thing. Even now to me personally I would not class that as abuse. There wasn't really a time when you didn't get the cane. I can remember the cane at school was a little cane but as I said the one at the home was called the 'Black Bomber'. I would just grin and bear it, whereas with other kids, once and that would be enough for them, they were petrified of it. I would always be caned on the hands, which left red welt marks and they were sore and I could not write for a few days. 28 Another example of what I would call mental abuse was when they built the new wing, because that was a disaster for quite a few of us. This was because they built two rooms and they were meant to be built for people on remand and they were two cells. They must be still there. They then started getting used just for punishment but I don't think people ever had as long as me and 493 did. I think most of them got a day if they were lucky. I would say the rooms were ten feet by six feet with a big heavy door. It just had a wooden bed in it with a mattress on it and a pillow and blanket. There was a big window in there that was about two feet by three feet. The view out of the room that I was in for the three weeks was onto a field. The other one faced the 'drive-in' as you drive into Haut de le Garenne. 29 I was placed in there for three weeks and this was because I had been fighting with 493 I had just come back from the psychiatrist that day and his parents had left him and gone to and he thought that they would never come back and he was also depressed and I believe that this was one of the things that we argued about. It was after school that the fight happened. HAMON saw us fighting and he went for help, but I don't know whether it was WILLIAMS or 491 at came but anyway we were sent to TILBROOK. He told us that we were going to be placed in the rooms but I can't remember him saying for how long, but neither of us expected that we would be put there for three weeks. We thought we were going to be in there for a couple of days. It was the early evening when we were placed in there. Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 7 1444 Form MG 11 (T) Page 8 of 15 124 Statement o 30 TILBROOK himself took us to the rooms and put us in there. There was nothing else in the room. You couldn't go to the toilet when you wanted to, so you had to ring a bell if you wanted to go to the toilet. I don't remember how long you had to wait before they came. I was wearing my own clothes but I can't remember if I changed them whilst I was in there. When I was in there, I was given breakfast, lunch, tea and supper. Once the others had gone to school then someone came along and took us to the washroom. Apart from that we never left the room and we had nothing to do whilst we were in there. I didn't know whether it was night or day. I know that I was in there for three weeks because we counted them and I think we even marked it on the wall, but that has probably gone by now. The female member of staff that I liked used to come in to bring a match and a fag for me. 31 This is what I call mental torture. I think that this was one of the things that 'cracked 493 up' and 'did him'. His parents had gone and left him and he was in that room opposite me for three 493 weeks and I think that was one of the final things for 493 I really mean that. as a year and a half older than me. He was already depressed and then to go in there. I think that he was going to run away again. I think we both were going to run away again. After this, we were arrested for an Arson and we went to the Magistrates Court and we were charged with the Arson. A few months after being put in the rooms he committed suicide. I knew he was suffering. He told me that he was going to hang himself but I didn't believe him. 32 I have strong will power but even with me, I was seriously thinldng of doing some bad things, I tell you. It was driving me crazy, not even jigsaw to put up or read a book, there was nothing. You couldn't smash the glass believe me and I did try a few times. 33 It ended because one day, TILBROOKjust came and said 'right' and we came out. However the reason I think that I was released from there because I was at the St Hellier Boys school at the time and I was eleven and a half years then. The reason I say this is because after I was released from the cell, I went back to St Hellier boy's school and my teacher, whose name I can't remember, spoke to me. I was the in the nd he ran the and he told me that he had been phoning up Haut de la Garenne for the last three or four days because he needed me to start practising for the Jersey competition and he was asking for me. I don't know if the pressure from him got us released but all of a sudden we were released and things carried on as normal. I did Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 8 1445 Form MG 11 (T) Page 9 of 15 124 Statement o not tell the teacher what had happened because I was 'shit scared' of going back in that room again and for the same reason I didn't te!! anyone. 34 When left the room I just wanted to run away again and tell everybody, but I was just too scared until I got my confidence back. When I did get it back, that was after about two months, the staff were more scared of me than I was scared of them because I thought 'you would never put me in a place like that again' and they knew it. I was never put into that room again. 3 5 Other people were put into the cells as a punishment but I could not name them. I believe that the reason that this was done to us was because me an had willpower. By just doing it to me and 493 493 l didn't give up very easily and we they knew that if they could break us two, and the other kids weren't stupid, then they could break them. Maybe we were the heroes for some of the other children because we would do things or say things that they would really want to do and say themselves. TILBROOK would know that. 36 However when I was about 12 years of age, I was placed into Haut de la Garenne on remand from the Court. They did put me into the other room whilst I was on remand but I did have proper privileges this time. I think that I was one of the first people to be put on remand there. By then the home had a lot of young kids there and so someone then used to come from the system or probation or social services to check on them every week, even the people on remand. For a long period of time there were no young children so there was no need for any one to come to check the cells, which was why they put children in there. 37 In relation to other occasions when I was injured or assaulted. There are a lot of things that I didn't look on as physical abuse. There was some things that I found were sore and I didn't like. I remember bars of soap being stuck down my mouth and I thought 'bloody hell'. My mouth would be really sore for two or three days. 38 This was done when I was caught swearing and it was whoever caught you swearing would report it to Mr TILBROOK and then the bar of soap would be put in your mouth and closed. That was horrible and your mouth used to froth up and you had to spray your mouth and your tongue would swell up. Your mouth used to be sore for days, for three or four days. You could never wash Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 9 1446 Form MG 11 (T) Page 10 of 15 124 Statement of it out because the more you washed it out the more bubbles were in your mouth to try and get rid of it. This happened to me on a few occasions and also a few other people got this. 39 It was a female that did it and I am trying to picture her but I can't remember her description but she was quite young about and was white. I have spoken to my friend about this woman and he reminded me that her name was first name and she was there under . I don't know her and I think that she looked after the girls and was also involved in the boy's side as well. She did not have a husband. She worked a day shift with us but could have worked a night shift on the girl's side and was not a teacher. She lived away from the home 40 In relation to the inspections, it really wasn't too bad in the juniors and intermediates, it was just normal inspections really, just like cleaning your hair, open your drawers, lift up your bed and search. It wasn't until I got older that it seemed to get worse I've got to be honest. 41 One of the other things that I did not like and I can think of no reason for them doing this and the only thing they could possible to this for was for fags, at the best. A few members of staff did this and that would also be WILLIAMS and 491 but it would not be TILBROOK. We would probably get it once a week or at least once a fortnight and they used to come into the dormitory and you would have to get by the side of your bed and they would tip all your lockers out and throw it on the floor and tip all your beds up and you stripped down to nothing and stand to attention. That would be like two or three o'clock in the morning. This happened on a few occasions. 42 When I was in the junior group, we had a bath and nothing happened to me that I saw that I didn't like. When I moved into the senior group we had showers. 43 I disagree with people about the abuse that occurred, apart from the belt that I had off 491 that one time. I can't remember anything nasty that any of the staff did to me in the home. There were discipline things which you would expect in an institution of any type. In them days some of the punishments like the cane, I would expect at school or fathers would do it to their sons probably, as I learnt from some of the kids at school that they would. So I would not Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 10 1447 Form MG 11 (T) Page 11 of 15 124 Statement of personally class that as abuse but obviously people have got different characters and I can only say about my own feelings. 44 We also used to be hit on the head and that used to be the normal and we used to get that all the time. Sometimes you didn't know why you got it for to be honest. You would not be 'bumping' the floor fast enough and then you would get a 'crack across the head' and told get on with it. To me that was not classed as abuse. It hurt though, it wasn't just a 'tap' it was a 'crack', you knew that you had it. I don't know if it was my generation. I would never do it to a kid or touch my sons. All the staff did this including 491 45 We also used to be flicked by a wet towel whilst in the showers but that was common place. We also did that to ourselves but we also did it to ourselves in . I would not class that as abuse, but I can only tell you how I feel, but if you want to class it as abuse. It 'bloody hurts', don't get me wrong and if you got a flick then 'bloody hell', you knew about it. I used to a red spot there for a while. To me in them days that was nothing and even in when I was 21 years, that was nothing. Mind you saying that, now I am looking at it with another perspective staff and grown men doing it to a boy, a ten year old boy is slightly different. That happened all the time in the home. 46 I can't remember which member of staff did that but half the time your back was turned to them anyway. Sometimes you didn't know if it was one of the boys. 47 Thinking about it now, it didn't happen all that often in t erhaps once a year. But you didn't mean to hurt anyone that much. In the home you would be hit on the arse and no where else as far as I know. This happened occasionally, it wasn't all the time. I personally didn't class it as a big thing, but every human person is different and to a weaker person obviously that could have been a real big deal. 48 In the home, on the boy's side there was a hallway that goes to the inner court and there's a big long corridor. Halfway down that corridor was what they called a laundry room. That was where 491 used to take the boys, to give them a 'hiding'. That was where we used to be punished by him personally. No one knew about it and it was out of sight of anyone. If 491 took you in there, you felt sorry for the bloke straight away you thought 'shit' he's in trouble. Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 11 1448 Form MG 11 (T) Page 12 of 15 124 Statement of 49 I went in there a few times. When I used to go home on weekends, I used to be allowed out of a day and my mother picked me up to take me out for the day on a Sunday. When ! came back, he used to take me straight away to the laundry room and search me completely. I would have to take all my clothes off and be naked. He would search you for things that you weren't allowed to bring back. There were no other members of staff there when he did it. He did not touch you sexually or anything like that but I don't know if he touched any of the other boys. This happened to me probably every Sunday that I went out and that was most Sunday's. He also used to do this to other children who came back from visits out. 50 I have had a couple of beatings from him in that room. Basically he would take me in there and say 'how many times did I warn you'. I would say that I hadn't done any thing and I would plead my case. You hadn't done anything because it was trivial to you, whatever he thought you did. That would be it and you would get 'crack' on both sides of the face with a 'backhander'. This went on until you said that you were sorry. It depended on how long it took for you to say sorry basically, as to how many 'cracks' you got. He never punched you, it was a 'backhander' and he was a bloke and it would knock you clean out. It gave you 'whip lash'. Sometimes I did not say sorry but some blokes did say sorry after they got just one. I am not saying that I was a big hard guy but some people have got different willpower and pain barriers. Probably because I have never given in to bully's. 51 When he hit me, sometimes it would nearly knock me out and it left yellow, red and maybe a bit of black, coloured bruises. The way that he did it, but I am not sure that it was deliberate, was he hit you and you would fall to the floor and hit the other side of your face and probably get the same bruise on your other cheek. That was probably why he didn't give you a black eye because if you got two black eyes you can't say that you fell over can you. 52 He did this on the weekend and I would say that the reason this was done then, was so that the worse of the bruises had gone down by the time you went back to school. This happened to all the boys that I can remember. 53 Apart from hearsay, I did not witness any of the other boys being assaulted. I don't think anyone really saw any one getting assaulted and this was so that there were no witnesses. So that Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 12 1449 Form MG 11 (T) Page 13 of 15 124 Statement of when you go to school and tell your teacher, it's your word against the establishment, so what chance have you got. 54 I know that people have told me at the time that they have been assaulted and that was all of them. My friend had, but he doesn't want to get involved in the investigation and refuses to 493 discuss it. and 342 assaulted. I saw 342 old me a few times that they had been with black eyes and a few bruises on his face and he said that he had been fighting with a member of staff. I guessed that it wa 491 but he did not tell me or if he did then I have forgotten. I know a lot of them had the cane and the soap. I can't remember any one else saying they had the belt. 493 55 I don't know how to explain it, but me and were different from a lot of people in the home because we would say something. With a lot of the others there was like whispers, like a dead silence but you knew. You just had to look at someone's face and you just knew, 'oh fucking, who's given you a bloody hiding'. It wasn't a language you used, you just knew, perhaps they were almost scared to get caught saying it. 56 I told the police when I gave myself up to them after I had run away of the abuse. I also told my psychiatrist as well of the abuse and she gave me advice to stand up for myself I told my mother of the abuse and also 'The Enquiry' after the death of 493 of the abuse. I also told my probation officer. I also told my maths teacher at the school but I can't remember his name. I don't think it was taken seriously at the time. There had to be people outside the home who knew about the abuse because I know how many I told and I am sure that I can't be the only person from the home who went outside and told other people about it and I am taking about people in authority. 57 During the course of my interview with the Police, I used the name of to identify one of my abusers and at the time I was sure of his name. I now realise that the name was not infact but it was 491 I don't know why I called him would describe him as an. He was a bastard but apart from that one incident where he beat me with the belt, I can't remember him doing that to any one else after or before that I know of. I sort of forgave him for hitting me with the belt. I don't know whether TILBROOK told him to do it. He was not bad like that again to me apart from the normal discipline things. He was a strict disciplinarian and he was in charge of the seniors. He was well known to Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 13 1450 Form MG l 1 (T) Page 14 of 15 124 Statement o have punched a few lads here and there and used his fist a few times. I don't know where he had come from prior to the home. He didn't mess about when he hit you and when you 'got one off him' you knew about it. It 'fucking hurt' and that's how much it really did hurt. 58 During the course of my interview with the police, I referred to a couple called the I actually meant the HAMON's and it was Thomas HAMON who sexually abused me and who I referred to in my previous statement. 59 When I was twelve and a half years, I left Haut de La Garrene and went to school in and was put into a special section. I found it a 'piece of piss' compared to Haut de la Garenne and I realised how bad it was there, it was a piece of cake in . You were looked after like proper kids. It was like going to a foster parent family and you learnt first names of the staff. 60 I left the system, at the age of 15 years and I became a at the age of 20 for and I did not ever want to go to a place like that again. I went into at the age of 21 and I was an , the by the time I was 27 years. I got married and had children. You start to enjoy life again and you just block things out. I have been very lucky. 61 I know a lot of my mates who went to Haut de la Garenne, that have either committed suicide, become drug addicts, become alcoholics and never had what I would call a happily married life and kids. I believe that the reason why is because it is the home that has destroyed them in one way or another and I do feel upset about it. But I was lucky enough and have very strong will power so may be I was lucky. Don't get me wrong I have had bad patches where I have hit the drink. 62 I have never in my life been able to touch my kids although I have never had to because my voice was always enough. But subconsciously because of the children's home I would never have done it anyway. 63 I did not receive any medical treatment for my injuries except for the from the hot water in the dishwater. 64 I have been asked by DC ROBINSON if I know Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 14 1451 Form MG 11 (T) Page 15 of 15 124 Statement of WATERIDGE, Morag KIDD, Tony WATTON, , MALLINSON and I do not recognise the names as yet. I do remember the name of but I can't say much about them. I have heard of 264 but I do not remember him being there. I believe that he was there before I was there and some of the older boys used to talk about him, I don't know anything else about him and don't remember him myself. 65 I have spoken to my lawyer Chris LAKEMAN who is representing me in my civil claim and I give permission for him to release any information that is relevant to me as I have also spoken about the abuse to him. Hand written by David ROBINSON This statement was prepared by me from he working copy of an audio tape of the interview of 124 the Headquarters of Jersey Police between 1005 and 1220 hours on the 23rd May 2008. On the 27th May 2008 I read it over to him but he declined to read it because he found it too upsetting. He signed it in my presence. DC Cameron was present throughout. Signature: 124 Signature witnessed by: David ROBINSON 2010/11 15 •• CJ..SE HISTORY 124 NAME : DATE OF BlRTH ; 53· RELIGION: WHERE CHRISTENED : ... REASON FOR CARE: SCHOOLS : FATHER : .... MOTHER: nereabout 8 'I:Ullalown . SIBLINGS : CHILD ' S ADDRESSES : t ~ .. - :n~ t:JO~ at St . Holier. a .,. 1 2 124 D/B 5). hth.era Sibli!!£!' ].).6). I t•l a pb.on.d llf.r. C&rtor tho Bead.Jaa.ter ef l'int 'fo.-ar School about hh letter oono.:rnia« 124 . Jlr. Carlar t ..l• ut:r.mel1 124 future and would b. glad of atJ7tbi~ we oan do to ~aoernM about help. Be feel• that he baa a raaaonabl1 good potential, but hie diffi cul t bebaYiour ie preYent ing h~ progreaaing aa he abould. I told Yr. Carter 1hat I hoped to aee t he mother aa aoon aa poae i bl e and would tb· o get 1n t ouch with. bia again. I called at t be houee and eaw e1 e ter. 14. ).6). Sinoe waa not i n at t he t~, I arranged to • •• b~r OD 18 , ) , 6 ) , 18.).6). 1a fri endly enough , but it i a eztr~l1 124 ditfioult to obtain troa her a detailed and c oherent pi cture ot O.haY1our. 8h. ..... quito reluctant to admit that be caueea her wor ry in an.y Wf43. ~ adaHted tha t be bad e~len eome a pplaa troca a local etor. reoeutq wbea ia the OO.p&.l'\1 of another bo1. Attn great p reaau'r'e abe aleo adaitted that he doe• tab 11t0n.y froa bo.e aa.eti.aee . Sbe ea.ya t b 1t be 1e ...nable and abe baa no d it~~cul ty in eontTOlling h im although be c an be va rr obeaq. 7or t unatel y, after a f airl1 abor t i ntervte•, d a ter joiMd ua . I found her ex t rellle l .Y Ulldore tanrl i ng et 124 • ditfioult1ea and Yery willing to t alk frankly about him and t o e ncour~ b~ r aiater t o do eo. haa l i ved wi th f or the ~·~ ~ 1? lltOntba. She ha a her own h.cl-a itting ro0111 which 1o on& or t.he fiv e rooma now baa at . She j e undoubtedly ve ry fond of t he children , p• rhapa p~t i cularly or 124 and the¥ rec ipro c&t ~ he r arr~ ct l on . 1beo t he children ~ in troa a obool at l unob time 1~ w~e i~~ dl aL~ l 1 apparent that t he1 f•el a real bond of atr e ct i on f or their aun t . Tboy B& l d, quite apontanaoual ,y, bow wonde rful she was , bow ab• wou l d p~ wl tb ·hea knd apend t ime with tb~, wbicb p4rhape tb e mot her doe e not do . f eola tha t 124 tri ea t o compe ns ate for h i e ..all ata t ur e and al ao for h ie backwardness in r eading b1 ebow i ~ orr, att en t ion aeeking, aggressive behavi our , e t c . Bo 1a e x ~remel y J e ~ l oue of bi a and compet i t ion between t he ch ildr~ n i~ al w~ys 124 rearonde very we ll t o praise ~nd wi l l ~aa t or th• tbt neu very keen. be can do well . app•a~e to handl e him very ft ~ns 1~ iv~ l y , prsisi ng hia good poi n ~s &n1 g1ving h im a tten tion, bu ~ aleo f i~ oontrol . qhe ta l ke~ frankl1 about his e teal1 ng and i t. s eems that he baa been in tbe b. b lL of tald ng money f r om home over a fairly l ong period . W'h -:n h h :.heft.e aoro do tec ed be • i l l t ell li e •fter 11 ~ to avoid th~ co nB~qu on cee . Th i~ eeeme to be a ma jo- rrohl ec witt h i m~· b~ ~llbougb Ur, C~rte r al~o C~ J l i ina or h~ e aggro r•iv ~ b eh & v3 o~r w11b other children i n school . 'ol-' rr- tb • L ehf'l did go t o t.he Child Cuid ance Cli nic in 1960 with 124 ,.ben he ll'& & caue ine cone-torr. , bu t h~ did n o' att end thoro for aLilY tr ... ~ t.me n t '-lld n<~ll.i nc furth er wae done. Sh"' • oulc! 124 he • 1111ne • o eo -~i.n to d1 e cuth pr obl ellltl . Tbe ~a te r i ~ condition e o ~ tt·~ bome arf'l ex r o )l ~nt ·nd t t ~ chlldron ~r"' obviousl y well cared for. Holl'over, th• r "' i K ~~al e f i gur- to • hMI 124 Ciin turn Mwi t he puta t.i ve f ather o'" t hto 1,._ only a v l'1 tor in the home . Durine eolll"" conversati on • 1th 124 ..nt hi P .. mt ahot • • b .. L'Ood 'hi nge be hoo at bo111e be OO!!JTe n~e d t.hu ~ }" ., di d t •O ' }; ~e ~ f k beT like othe r childr~ r. . Tb e mo tbcr' e husband, who 16 Lb ft r~tL~ r of 124 144 'II 124 ~t 2 - de ..:rt.d tbi!IC when be baa lacked ~ ra~b~rl1 124 influence or WU OD}J 18 IIODt:be old, 80 oon~rol. I told t.bat I would be eee1~ -.r. Carter 124 baa been pereonall7 and would then get in toucb with her as-in. told that ad-. t oe ia being sousht about hie beha-.iour:, aDd aa quite prepared tor .. to v1•1t. Be 1e a friendly, r:atber ..otional little bo7 who &pJ>e&.n to find i t quite eu1 to talk about hie inhr.e\8 aDd fMlinp. It doe• •e• that he would beneti t fro. treat.ent at the Child Ouidance Cli»io. CJIJL:I CARE OP'nCER . BPjr:B 145 - 2 - When we got home I had the chance to talk to 124 on h1B 011m . Be at.ooC: nt.h his back turned e.11 the time l ooking out of the rtndow . I aaked him whet be had dieoussed with Dr. Collin& at Child Guidance . Be said the~ talked about eehool Gnd be than aai d be had told Dr. Collins tha t he bad been wicked aod tbnt h e had been s"teal.in&. I asked him i f he bad told her where he had got the mOlle~ he hadapent. Be replied that. he had M d told me bim&elf without e.rq queet1on1nB on my part. Bo appareotl,y had taken it from the pUrSe of lire- CbanotD~h OJ:UI of the tea ohere at the eohool. Be said he did not know wb¥ be had not told but that he hM mnde up bie mind bo •aa goins to tell hill to::aorrow morning. We had a long t alk. I got the i.lll'presaion th3t 124 ie obvioue}7 soared nt all t4e trouble that hao arisen out or tbie, but there aleo aeema to be a wi.ab for approbation and a very srea t lo1J81.D8 to:r atfecUon . ell I and t hat what he 414 put it to him that he wu the would follow and that tbia put a trpeo:lal reapone1b1l1 on him. There w.x-e genui.ne tean 1n bia 8788 ao:l ba 414 o~ he fol t very ashamed of hi.taaelt . Be sa1d he wOUld lilca to tq to replaoe " ho.t he had taken and al t.housh he gets nc regular pooat JDOne,T, hie 1110ther does glve him eome aone;r tor 57eeta dt.tri.Dg 'the woek. Be ea1d he would tU:o ilia and give 1 t to to repa;y Ura. CballDin«• U ia perh"P* rather eigniti~~ 'bat 124 Yfl%7 that raoney and thinp \hat he has been given YOre pven to h1Ja bJ his fathe r - in f a ct hi s ta\her lot't hoce when 124 was 18 mo1:1the old. oft~ ~ • • I a.oked him about breaking in"to the hut. Be aa14 he bad done this with SOllie ot the other boys, that it was duety and apparently unused liUld he t boUS}lt the boolca •ere probabl7 not wanted by arl,Tone . Bon..,r, he admitted that he lcn91r what be waa doin8 wau W'l'OJl&• Durin8 our oonvereotion I asked 124 who be loYed beet of everybody a t homo and without a cecondtl hesita tion bo eaid hie mother. Attar UO' oonveraation with 124 , I had a long t alk with . I told her what 124 had said end abo looked r a ther surprieed and admitted that ehe did not trr to ptt Aside e:rq particular time to Ulk:1.nc to 124 bo11t hi e eehool and his feelillge and th t she did not apend a.:rv ~ocial time with him but tha t her time was much IDOre takell up with tho ones . She aecaed to undere~d t hat thlo lllipt cake 124 f eel not eo wanted &8 hie and M id eha had not thought about it. I tried to point out to her tha\ i t he oould feel the eeouri ty o f her love and aocoptanoe behind him tha t thi e would bo the beet 124 w~ to help by which I did not me&ll 1n 8.rJ;1 w&~ t.ba t aha should tq to st!Uld between hi.m and the consequences o~ h1a actions , but that she should help hi.cl to taco real ity and to let him k:n01f that she wee behi.M him. did mention \hat 124 had told beT t hat hatea hiJI. I telephoned who said he had not oeen 124 yet . Be hc.d po.oeed b.il:l in the passage and ha.t1 eaid to him , " Well , wh did TOU g et \he mono;, t>rom?" , Md 124 bod told him. Be wu go1!14f to ... the bo7 l nter in ~he monning. said nt onco th a~ he had made up his mind be did not want to ke op 124 ill the eohool . I told b1a that D'r. Collins ha d oai d abo ns going to ring him u p this gorning and I asked him it pooei ble ~o del~ seeing 124 until she had telephoned . We discussed the poanibil1t;r of 124 oing to R&ut de la Carenno ant! I suggeoted strongly to 'at it would be a great pity t o proaent this as a punitive measure /MJc!'" ~ould only b&ve an:r ret.l chaoce of being therapeutic i t t ho obild co11ld bo auldod to think ot i t aa a oonot~cti vo otep, i.e . a completely new enviroraont 4lld a treah chtmce to ehow what he is mde of. agreed w1 t.h tb1a in principle . I aaked bi.m to let us have a report on tbeee recent hap;- e n1Jl88 and hia own oploion oonoornillg them, and odd that I was also eoing to aek Dr. Collins to give ua her views. It was o.rC npd that I should t alk to again later whon be baa eeen 124 . - A l ottor - 142 - 3 - A letter was eent to .Dr. !:ollins aaJdn& tor her op1n1on in wr1 till8 about ths preuent ai tuaUon with 124 o.nd u;plo.' ni114 that thernaa ooz:e thought that be raifsbt 'bone!U for a t~ a~ Baut de la 0Q.r(Jnno . I also diat:Ue&ed thia with llisa 'lbo:rnton who aereed in principle but s aid ehe would rather wait 1f poaaibla until Chriatmal betor. 124 was sont to Baut de la Ouerme. I ~lephoned who aaid that he had ~ sent hia written report. He reiterated that he YBDted 124 to leave hia s chool u GOOD ae possi ble and that al tbou,sb ho was preparod for the bo7 to recei.D unUl Cbrietmaa i f th1o had to be, he felt that tbe awslln& vould continue and that t.Mre ould be turthor t.roubla, and fo:r his atm pe.rt lte would like him to leave as soon u poaeiblo . eaicl tlut he had aent oopiee of his report to the Direotor of Educdion nod to Dr. CollUie. Hr. Cnbot ulephonod l ater. Re h ad read r•port and wanted to know wh& t wao proposed tor 124 I e.xplail*l the baoqround or tho case and told him tb4t I bad diaouea«ld this with lliea Thomton rmd that the idea at the u;omelrt waa that 124 should go to Raut de l a Oarenne, but proba'bl.J" not until Cltriatrll40 . Ur. Cabot said that he knew that thore was a boy n-om Guornse7 for whom a place had been requea\ed at Haut de la Oarenne, but he tol ~, "obar1t7 'b-aino at hCII:Ile", and that ill view or the \UihaPP7 ai "WaUon that 124 was in he tel t that ba ahou1cl be given prloriv and that he would put forward the re~aUon that 124 whould b9 taken into Raut de la Oarenne ae aoon aa poaeible. I &lao epoka to Jlr. 'l'Ubrook on the telephooe before llr. Cabot' a meosage c:::me thro"'Bh aDd he '\old me tbon '\hat M:iu -Pbonrtcm had mentioned 124 to hila, and that althous:h he would prefer to wait unUl ChrietQ48, i t tlUnp got reall)' detJPera te ho oould have him. I feel that in this veq trau:maUc ai~ti011 a move ehould be Cl8de aa soon aa possibl e and there will be nothing to be seined in poatpollina i t. A.o I earlier pointed out to 1t ~b ll:#fe oan be presented to 124 ae a frea.b ob&Doe , and iD oo •03 put forn.rd ae a punitive meas ure, tAle m31 well have a 'bonoticial arteot • CHIJ..D CARE omCEB. R'ljn 143 --......,..---·------~-,---------~ J./,ploon• .,t,.ol 1•1!42 L .xt; 275 } sychietr ic ClL~ ie 22. 10. 196 3. 1o lss "oor nt on C,lildren~ ON'icer Colomberie Close S t . HeH.• r Uear )'.is s Th o rn ton , He: of t he f SJ;,il,y hist o ry of t ,.:Ls ye ar. 124 aged 9 j e~rs . You w ~ ll slreedy :.ave neerd of:' ice ca. .e i nto t ue 1 icture in .t..srcil t :Jis ooy ss 124 is severe ly oisturked ' . t..ec::use of r.is family hac k:)ro und . --e pr e sfo:nts Lo t ypic al JJicture of the o~~ r ived c ... i]d snd has :P"e~ t e ... ot i~Jn sl nee 124 -::res t llf S P. t ~t SC"hvol • .,';, il&t ,.,3~- i nd the f •int t r.:1 lying D:':.ti Q'!. e.s1 i n,s a r e undouLtt.ly :>. i-1 tv ..ts l) f 11is &re C 8 U!S it15 tflji t , .e uest i SC't: ; Jr IJLill ,, ~d l c. >-.9\l te Uc.. 13 l7STtl!'l:lC, t>l•ere flO , \, j\J r,:..ve \.1 C ~t·,Ll e f:1'l•.irol'lfl.ent .. <: ~e 7 ·1. \%.-ere t .!' !: i:tff' H ulJ , e at- le t • SUJJlY t. .c t>e i•l: l'l( :.c nec..-c"' , ~ ~ t .... ::- ; t r. t ..e ~ ffec ti on 3't•) u•1d.;r~ t s·11i · ~~·~ .J~S ~u lscJ...cd J f o r: r·;.3~ jeurs. : ...-~ e t r.t !'ll:t t r.uu~b , ti. i s r.k.l ve t o t he ho e ,., !'.11t t J ,u t 1· ·r urs :._ r uly A~~uu .J 1 Ct~~~ t ...r . .. . ... ~ . l1SJ 140 - -- -- -- -- - -- - - - - - - -------. 124 f\lrthor to your telor..hoDO convernat.ion ith iea awn t.ha morning, theN l"''~ntl7 'bc;m a era t deal of won-1 concomtna 124 who baa 'bMn d1eoovercd \o bn sto ling t"roCl looo.l ahopo ont1 to be Uldlla ~J f"ro:3 ~acber ' o • urso o.t school. ' • Carte, 1.ho n lor of r inJ-t Tower Sohool hns boon do pl7 oonoem a'bout t bin fool . that a cb.nn.ce of oebool o1 t 124 . bo tho boot '\b.1ng 1'01: I 1-hG boy, to.gother w1~h ancl.oaJ..Ds a co-;;7 of ll:r. Car\cr*o roport on od.mla..S.oft fom~. 124 hen VDIJ 1fl &:.OIStb.O , nothi.na bao been board of hb sJ.noo. rocet1•1Da rt.un:c1al hal p hom tbe ~ A itrtanoa BoQ"d~ other chUdran , boco ~ putative t a 1 1c et ore . hooo 1D ~ oqo 'that oro ba.o C£lwa,ro 'ti08n ::d 'th.nt ho dODD GO' do h&t cl;.a tollA him to clot ~t oh.o 14 not real.l)- Ablo to eontrol him, PAl'tiCU.lc..rly ovor thotJC at lt epid 124 124 em rr. IICIIlO timo, ~~ t b1 ~ r or bao hocn a t r-::1n ~ho ChllU. GUitl nco Clitdo a too, hao t'ol -t tobtl\ tho 1'1~ nt t.'nO ph ro di f f 1cul' f~r 124 Gt 1f he OOUld in a H ocopUtl(f emiromcon he voul.d havo =or-e n® o.r ae"'el<>piqg bi p:ro;ti l ot nUol. Sho ~ yo ~ha\ abo foela the boa"t IJlan f ol:' hiD 'bo n ui do l a Carclltle, ,;hero t-.t> would hDva n e10ra et nble envi. nt, h 138 - 2 - tbe S'tatf would stv-• hiQ the aupport be eeode. Dr. Call tha-t, u poutbl e , 0 oona14&ra he abould eo thoH with Ule 1 poulble dol~ . 124 U 70U1' Coa=1ttee would e to have t!Wm irlto care at Bwt de 1.4 Cuanno, we would have a ft04.Dc.y Cor 1J:a on r.s.aq, ttCJVe:Zlbu t t , 1963. 0v ( J .. A. Gb.e'n7t E&q. , !b Seort\Uf, Ueliv l841stuoa Eoud• s,. Ballt s,. 3.-n.7• fot,n ~iar• 139 124 D· ~ .. (.cf ·ck.i -~ /I. L, 5 ./ ?:n-cered on Ccr.uni'tt·'O nntificd n()r~in:;l -,. ... ! "_... ~ 110. i.;r t· ,-~·•. ~ ·- r :-11 J \.I ; ()f·l th·.lr:.ic: ir.,·-; (·C ~:. o:~ . •/. '-' / J h -="'i !• :; rU ·• r i ..;~-: --~---'--------- :lcl"oo! ·c C-Nc v, ) ,4 J____ r-=:-.r.() _ _ I) 136 STATES OF ,/~-- JERSEY ED UCATION COMMITTEE r - v •.. A'( \964 \' CHILDREN'S SECTION \ Form of application for ndrniMion of n child ro the can of tbe Educat1on Commttt:U,-.....t• 124 Apphcauon for admis~ ion o f ___ - --· ··· ·· --·----··----· ··---~- ·-~ R tnson (or application ._ ..... ~.!..?.f..~~-~?.~.l7.'.~ -~9.~~:t:?-~:. ·---- ···· ·····- . At th~ u .pen!e o f -=TI:le'/~-~!.:~~t.- ...... ----·--- -- --·--··--· Signed Dnw.l ... ..... ...... - - .. j. '! f------19.63... - - -I'T'-C _o_ ns_t...,..,f-- - L - - - - - - - - I 1 r Full Name of Child Dart ,..,f 1 Plat ,. of · Religion . - - - - - -- -·--- _ .. -· . IJ1rth _ _!_3_'~~----hrr-;:m:r---t i1 124 . rJ 3 J e rsey . Ij --------~--~~----------~-------- Full Names of Parents Age c. of E Age 2 l:lOntbs . Home Addru3 i; l l~ ot known . ( -- ----- ............ ................ ---··-- ----·--····- --·-·- ---- Parhu'! Q ,·c upnuon • __ M othe-r'.) Occupatiou Nnme~ ... F.QJ.l.~~.lfj,f.e........... ..... ..... end a ..idressea of any other relat1ons who may tab· an lntcrut in the child- .P:t~n::n_~__ A\-V1i: , --- I .... .. . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. •. ......... # •• .._ . . . . . . .. .. . ..... ----···-·--····--···----··· .. · ------ -·- -· - -· ---·-· . . . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ....... .... .. ...... _ , __ _ .. _ _ _. . . . . . . ....... ...... - · - · First Towe:r . Name of Sdu'>ol ( 1f any) ath:nded by cln l d.~--- --· --·--·-·------------··-- -- ·---- ·- ------ -- --------- · --··-Stnndard Rea chea ......... ....... -- -----···· ...... .. . .... .... .. ........ ...... ...... ... --- · ln fo rm at1on a:~ to Prt".viOus Medical Hi3tory ol Parents !Jnd ChildJ'en. h1c luJ n.il va c.d n:lllons and diphtht". rla •mmunJ~a110ns o f childr en. and name any infe ~ h<•d l'llEH~;'llef3 in:. -ril 1962 . • •• •• 0 · ···· ·· ········ · · · · " - · · · · · ·_. . . . . . . . . . . :-. .~h~.9~~~P.9.;... ~ .t.l.../.YT!?.. :1.9Ra, .... . - tne'lsles irt t!ay 1962 . ~-.._.._ .. . . . .. . . _ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . . ._ _ _ ~·~ - ·- - -- --·----------·-- __ ___ ............ -- ··--···-- _________ --~ ------------------- -- -DOCTOR'S CERTIFICATE (W•thout ... 124 l htrt-by ctrtt£y that th ~ above-na rncd . -~--· u pcrf~ c t l ~ lr~" from any cnntllQ IOUS cutaneous d1sorder o r otheMnleCIIon and ls fie 10 associate with o ther l hlldrt-n - ~) NOTE : .. .. .... 19. --- --· Slg ncd .. .. .. Medical ~'tfuner. )_~~~-:r.::'... __ _ Th1s form ~~ to be completed and sent to th e Children's Officer. Colombe ric Clost. lor ((lllSidcrauon by the Education Committee b{'fore the child IS sent to the Childrtn's Home. FOR OFFICE USE ONLY. NumbFr in AdmiSSIOn Register.____________ Date admitted __ ....... -------------- - Cnmmenl • or Constable or Authority appl)•illQ fo r Child to come JO tO Public Care - 137 - t. 124 lepon OD to t 2 3 t lrootor or Ucn. CbUI!nD' a otfl08!'. Dr. ColUna. 'l'hU bo7 la •• ~tat~ tho Child Cu14artoe Clinio • vor;r ~ ' Stnco '"- time I Uv. 41aoovoro4 poriocUo w\b!'eGite of at. .uzaa tJooea Ghopa, tlovore priwa -.r..,._.. , tor- ti'CD cllllArca, a b1atle rrc. ~1. I • qu.iM comi.Docl4 thia b a ooaUwoua PJ'OOM - &:lOch of' which 1.'«afdJuu w:xta~tea. tet\cnc.r to ti(i.b\ 1D tb pl a,; baa been oontJ'Oll.a. ... Ci.ret ntert'e4 to tho ChU4rcn• a Officer 1n 1960. at~ ot C'rida7 , Ootobo%' 1tth, 1 notieod ball . _ . cbocolate. ea14 thia bad been nn b.J I UCDI4 bia ba ~1114 b.o bad t ou:Dd 2/6 1D ~ puk. 01:1 Ul site I toun! ba b4 epmt l/-· n. aoveJ"eA...up b,7 ee,y1.Da b1a ' f a' had YU W.:. Uao aU. a • oo. Ch114rcm 1D hta o1 thoD wlunt.GNd U. 1Dfo tice t ts. b4 4Joop»ad abou1 7/- 1D clu e 'tbt C01'D1 • Ro CGlloG tk• .U lice to~ tacea. ndq I oon\imo4 itn'eeU4;t~UOOD ~ouD4 be bn4 t a .f"Urtbor 7/6 CD Tb1o time bo an14 t. bod rooaiv.ct ?/6 trae u ol4 11M &D4 bad f ocm4 6d . 1b a 1"CC'll3 1n bia lloaca when 80QO DaD • ~arftins'. 1:tU'dq. na u s.n..utsationa O'D ~oct.q N'IO&led that be ha4 UDlooke4 CD4 ~ 'bu114on' bu'\o OJ) n.~ at~ , cn4 ~ tol e ecae 1m'o1.oe booka, 4 Udlt bll'bo o~ ortice IDatariAl from He triod to p t into. tbUd b.ut ~. elq'l t. eadq 1 hrd a . . ...Us at aobool at 4· 30· with bU IDOtbu end • eerooc1 t '\be bo7 v ~on4 bar (.X)J)\rol Ni4 ~ oooa.td • a i.nnQOI')Ce to reatn.ln biD. waa ~ for bill to to QaJ:wm.- U thia would b4t !'o r bia (;Dod . U ne obYiGUa -.. no\ ~'11... '10 ~ ~ ~ bia poueedana, to-, ~mew be bad 1D bia ~ • h1eh hod Wld b.Sa to retum w acbool. Be a t.lll den1. . ba At1u a tiecu•10D at h1a with tho Qdld Cu-. ort'1oe:r, be et!cd.tt.d to t.erin~ a oluo.roa~~~ (1)0\ bio D) ~t. pla;rUCle on ~ %"Dina, Gn at.oa.~u.n.s h'ocl • to:"cbe:' . h:.Dd~ . On ..uit. oonrtDco4 thai 1t !aa 1 a lo,..'t at !le~~~e tlllAt n..liDs • W c=U , f. t OlldGO~ hao doDe !'o r DODtha. fkme of illeM NCGDt e»i . woa14 b.aft ~ w l1t,h\ b.o4 I no\ 1 n e;tol\t 4 :U of tilll6 ·~ in lDY U.pUoa. u, al~ be ll:no1r I ne o tc ooatimD ~ auqu1rl.ee on , thia ill ao •03 ~ternd hiD f'~ .teal UUO.q . I • U ~ to c. a.- C!JVUo '\ '"'o1"tlnr1th• '1'o ~ M.a of h1o ha'blta. fu-entAl control i a tota117 1Mdoq to end ~l"'I"Demt un:JJi table. u now e~ hie !Dtluoooe. ho~ are lD UJ' n~ oao4 or In., opiJUon he .tould be 1. 1. 3. 4. Vl'Oteot:ioD. Da lo c. 110at plcuaible liar end ~opt tbo 3tUtu • of t1oa h ill. a ood br: 1Jl a ( uiok eQJ .-qgiq, no 111 h1a i'roc:a a&UJ'ta 1Jl1118 ble OtG!7o TJe i o qu i to ~'tant t un..;o-opor 1•a t ocol'l'11;1 o. ool 9"QZ'k h~ tmpro\'04 , un.1 ho 1a l1 tt.lo trouble 1n olaea. • • top of o.J'\ Ar1 tm:.Uo te.1 its a B atrosa or 1a ~ ~ ~· '\ a 70&r 1D tho retardod cl...a , bui hca no-y \Ul'no4 to 1a ~ ool e n-.a. c!ne to 1110\'8 to a ooon4ar.J 3ebool 1n t'lo1 tombe.l', ic::o41a\Cl.7 to llal\ • l a r.4~r.ezl4 ~ 'bo ~el.'ftd t.e.ot wporrl.ei , .nd 1965, until cb 1.D Cl"4o7 t ho.l"' nll to=;)\aUOD \o e e l U be Sil;nocle n.s. cartor. 133 Copy . 124 124 seems to be a cbeorful r 3t h or too talkative child. ,.J. tboUe;h ve ry s::n.:J.ll :'or Lis age be appoa.re qui te intellisent i th a good. gooornl k:no- ledge . He is u.nxiouc to make f riends W"i th the other boT& ...nd tri"'e so bl.:.l"d to "get ~lone" with them that bo often sntagonio eo them. eo is thrillc~ ~itb the bod he bas boon allotted nnd ~ unused to such accomodn t i on. He i s restl eeo at night ..u'ld t~es n while to eo~·. le . I!is .:lp-petite is oxc He seems to ~~ve been very well provi ded for material!: nioe clotbee, many toyo, eto . but thi a doos not oompensato for his emoti onal l ~ck of eecurit7. Be £~6ls no real affection for hi s mother bu\ feole [Uil t,- beoauae o f tbio. He h as'"'tO'i'd mo that be ..Ueaes his mother but I r:.in the i.n:preesion that he feel s he ohould say thi3 . He did not t:rr7 when 3he loft ru:d ho didn ' t want to ceo her orr . On tio f irst dq hero he left the othero bile out on a walk and wandered back here . After bein8 acol dod hu kissed me ~~odni [ht xnd mede no cention of home or his mother . He wnlkod o f ~oc~· oe hu ss1d he wac bored ith the walk. His cother does not a1?.~ur to feol deeply for him eHher . She al ~o '• re~ to have a e:uil t cOt:Jplex atout 1 t . :)be tolJ .:1e repos.ted.l3 how Bho d isci lined him - made him wash thoro~ Wld eat eve~ and SO to bed oa.rly . :lhe scema to have told him ru. co what a good ::Jtrict mother ehe io boonuoo tho only t~ea I he ~ him ~ontion her ia •hon be e~ to met " 1 do :.e you s:.y bec a.uee you are strict 'lfi th me , 1f1¥ J:ot.bcr is, she 8&78 she must be'' . He ie very untruthful but I 1 ttel tha t when his artiiicial. " 1 ront" baG beE>n worn dolfll and I'I'O s ee him ~ ... be really is ho ill trust us ~nd bo more truthfUl . I ~ tel l when be i s lying because ho assumes an unm13take~blc .acial expression. 131 ... c, . :n: F'EREI\ Ci': h lcJ a'l tlftut do lo OaretJ~o, Go~ , on ~e-dnead.q 1 tth teoocber, 1963. 1Uae r .L . ~cnontan . J:U.e Il. VatoJ'S. ~r. arA rg . c. B . T~l~ok . 225 & 491 124 124 CT!t.D CARE 0~£1T. 1 ~\ ,;cs odr:l.ittod on 1ot foO'ntlber, 1963. Rf. OR'!' . 124 J - t-'!sn '-:ll\er f!.C.VO S ~r.'l of ~~ hOt'lf'l mt~~. tat'-er 1l"~ rt~ ...,...,,.. t ht- ohild V'IO V<'.r:"f y~ . and V·• child ~ually 10t blsyortd hh motb.or' e oor.trol . ~o eeaa.'! tc "e~l tbe 1 C:C c.i" A f .. tt.er ver.1 in~ . 'to cH-t not t. on -: t · 1 11 R~ ~i " t 'l'owr :-c •ol, --.r.:S 1! t:P. Col Hr,.. f'olt !~Tt th1. .. ~rna proll.,b~ t" hC:C or ~tb7 loon·•"' 124 beaan ~ tbiaga fTO:t rborr. Oa:rtor, tho Re•~mMter, en~ 124 ~~ froaa ocbool . tu"ll.Y ·an r te:rt' "'\ d .n lntorrlev 1ritb and M tiJ'lR11.7 a1.Utted tbat. 124 ~• bo;ronJ ber eon'trol , r:c ft.C'"Cd ttr.~ 14 ~ odllitt~d tc '"ut de la Oarem.a. ~ lcrr• alee '".1.-e Wat.re bad of 124 w tt:ol't s-o 1a en 1nso~ oh11d , d rived ot atfeoUca 124 M ~ • ic of a 1"0&.~ n nbl~ ~o od e: b ial ~ tv.tard. to be vel)' fond cf b1.r; ~t.enH.1 ! emf. , !fho liver w! tb hi l' OO"tbnr. :~1'1" . 'N.lbrook ro:::orto•) 1 "Jo t tha doctor who exaclned 124 for tio -e . '!b pro)'h,7l a.xe• are not. COGtJ le rc~m4 ~ very 1'! t., ~ r'r . Tilbroo· s:rld t h.A t 124 1& o c5ol1abUul bo)" ln ~ w~ , l O foo1G th::t, flltb:> .,b tbo bO,j ~Ill' hill f'l"'bl "Ut thore le 8 rood cl\Pnc& t:u~ t we 111 111 bo cl>le to hcl r h!JD. 124 1e oaw becoainG ll0%'8 &£8'1'8 dvo . "lie eot.her d1d not co to b1 bl rtb~ ~ rty, tl.tld he wr,r ~:;et about th.ie . !!e now ueGJH to b& tre t~in on bettor tr1tb the o tho:P bo,.o. said t bat 124 tolls etorloe t'b')nt htceol f , Md .,1t" life, wtl1.cl\ tare not true, but •llioh ~ ...ar rob: bly cor:Yl to ~U~vo '11mael f . Ro 1u, h~voJ', be;r1nn1nr. !o ovoroo: .o t. ~ 'l r> tcndcno;y . 124 lioeo not • e • !n ret on very vell w1Ul biA r:10t r , r.4 n o &ee l"Ot fO to t he Cuild •rld•roa C11.n1c vhen t e 1• o b7 , Md fore .,i ndoloPion t o !but de h C"rt'f'r., , he uood to llttcr.6 on bh om . «:!lid ~ at 124 ' ll.l' t·ottlod all rl( ht nt Crouvillo o ir: no-t N1 unJ.•Jtol lie-tmt br!·.- . ~ehool. It woa OU." LII'"W t • t 124 c t~ ld be ,.llo~ to tul.ve o Cllrie 11 holidq a t hoc:., JOI'ld i:' th b ~It -e11, t ut ho choulcS bo lloued to rr.:ond tb1t fb'tlt ve krnd of cvar;'l' r.-.or. ;h at hooe . It uu aeTOed t \ the ccnteot with hio O:>tber r boull' no.t b~ broltm . It wu r.eroed tbnt e t rorte r: null o m... ~~ t? o I)Our,.,.o • o  o to t hft CbilrJ Guldl!'.n CUnio . 1 t.h 124 • J.,.e· n1onn. 1. Thnt 124 r hould rou.in at :.ut de la Ce!"'nnG tor ~ho in. t ld, if ~ he C" J'i"'t t:.D liolt.dey 1c e;JCOCAtl ul t thnt he abould t4 nllo-. c2 t o or.,r.d l,l 0 f1 J:'(It li'O' :tnnd 0~ el\f'h O'J!l !h ~ boo.t . ~t /"'U . • • • • 126 . ... 2 124 ... ........ .-.:: - I I~· 127 22nd January 1965 ( Dear , 124 Ae bo.e been i nvolved 1n rather ·a lot of otooling rrcm here during tho past ~oek I have told hie tbot ho wi ~ not be going home for tbo next ~onth . 1o will not thorororo have a e - end until the first wePk-cnd in Uaroh . You w1ll ot course bo olo~o to vioit hore o t any timo to ouit you~ convon1cnco . I rum oorry to havo to do this but you will cf courso apnrccinte thQt we must enauro that 124 approaiatoa tho seriousness of' his behaviour. Youro s inoettolt, S\U)o~intendent . 109 124 •• •• • •• •hns pan&e~ tho t1rot part o£ biB 11+ examination • • • •• ••• • •••• • •• • SUperintendent • .. 108 14th April 1965 , Booauoe ,of 124 's oont1nuod nda-bohav~?~ lat~~~~ riigbt in hie bedro m ~nd 1n sp1 to of ropentod nrnim;n ,~i':t ho boa not beedo~, I have been compollod to atop him bnv1ng a boli447 at homo th1o Easter. Ho 1Jill {)O homo r:or the dQY on Ranter SUnday but should be back l>~ o!ll"1Y" overune. I tu:1 sorry to have to do tbi but I nm afraid thot be ouet learn to boh3ve hirns el~. • Yourn oinccrely , Supor1ntondont. 100 13th 124 Ap~11 1965. • 124 .... han been easing Fo.r about throe ott four wo ka now a gre11t deal of disttli'barac e in b1a bed,Jtoom lat(J at night. oometictos ao lnto ao 11 or 12 p . m. Ho hnn boon constantlY warned that 1f that kin~ of behaviour continued he vould not be nlloucd to go home for h1n ~nst~r holidays. Tn18 has bas hnd no offeot nnd he Will not , therefore ba allowed heme. I Will write t o his mothor. Ono wondero 1f this litt l e boy 1s ~orr1 od about bame end mother. ~ w -,, .•.•.•...... .. Superintendent • .. 101 HAUT DE LA GARENNE 25 oy 1965 Doar J.11o s Thornton , 124 & 342 On one of my periodic ' snap' i nspections i n tho &arl.7 hO\U"S of th e morning I found the above two boys wandering downstairs. Tncy were on a s t ealing spree . I smocked their bot t oms and sent them back to bed. Are we haVio.g the homoo vioi ted regularly in an attempt t o !!10d1t'y the pa z·e nts at .. itudoo or , 1f vro.havc given up . Qre tre t r~1ng to f1nd aubot1tutes for t hem 9 It oeacs pret ~y dr~ drul thot t o ouch young ob1ldron . bould be oo unhappy that tboy d o thio sort of thing nnd hevo this difficulty in gett 1ns of~ to sloop . (eoo my memoo 124 on file . ) I n.'ll told that hos refused t o hove tho bOys borne for s i x months becaus e or th o r ocnet trouble, is eaid to be hard and un.1'oc 1 1 ng abou t 124 . I rc there no other rol o.ti vos ? i.'hat abou t B.O . ? Tho c.c.o•o c omp l ain that much of their timo 1o taken up u1 tb umnar 1ed mothe rs - sureqthes o cf)ildr-en are more impDrtnnt ? Your n sincere l y , Super i nt e ndant . 97 124 124 .1_.0 ~ Y:> IX\ t'"\f(\ ;k, \\-e. 4 lOJ-Lt\1 l tooJ )\.c oltt"-. . ~~c.~'\t o.. ..t.o ~.,....\tv.> e._~ ~~ OW) J.o~Vf\~ d.J..d ~ rf'"f\ . \-\-e. \()$$~·~~·

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---------------St. llolior Palriah Cl.urc1l 1953

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1.

124 should remain o.t B..;ut de la Garonne for the timo being, om i t the Cbr1.atm.oa hol.1day 1D auooe.odcl. , bo ahould be allowed to GJl&nd the first neko.n4 of ench J:¥mth at booo .

2.

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3.

fhat the eace obould be reviewed 1n lbrch, 1964.

ahoul.d bo ono~a to 1:akG o.

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posi.t i.vo int-reat in

124

BRIEF hiSTO:::Y 0'£ i:o:.::: CIRCL~·~s:'.'Jit:E:S EI C. s.:::·cE U .:.:i7 C01~mru::;: ~E ( I f fire t Confercl co give fu,l l.i:nory . inclu"ins dt!\'"' ...... ;:::::en•al hi$tory !'rom cir·· ht ctar~Pe!" ~4' s.:h.oo'l , CC!iOP.SC Of • ~u:-es!! , €13 1 ::.::r::;• :o: frorr. ;t "ent(s) in:::lu:5ic~ .:t;·i :al:.z&~ion, hi.;tol:; of parentG' bac~-:·.:>:..:.:~:: •. c::-.e e:.·:i.~r.:r..:nt ··z.:i m::ic;hbc:;r~aoc! , :nterss~ed relct.ivea al'l.! n·lareesoc:) . I )lrYo rcoentl:f been t o cee end had a '!rank d1£autm1on with her 124 reeardillB h:lr attitude to Bl'JCl tho f.rOCont o1t'. l:\tiC:t. She told tlO thnt che Yd.cl:.ed tho preoout arr:mceoonts to contimle aa reec.rdts l:.ic T.cekondo end .holidcy-a at ho::lo end t b.at alth,ous:h Ghe i'lbie him dU'fiC'Ult durlJ::Ic his out'bur:rts of 'te!:lf'Or, etc. cl:e hoped thc.t e'YOntual.ly he w1.ll have ~-erred !r'Jfiicicnt1.1 to :roto.J.m h.o!::3e to st :r. occu;tes a four-~o:x:d tl...t rt.!11cll c~ C::croo tith hsr c1cter, rt-.o lotD her 1unw a rocc f or 124 men be 1s o.t h:>:le . s~ - recoivee e;.l3.6d. tro:t 01. liel.i.or l Aaoi%it e Bo=rct, 15/ - n \'leek r A.llawune!! , ,.,s/- trcr.t ~r port-tb emplo;r=nt nna. £4. o. t:'Cek !'ron , the - ether ot he:children. Sbo pcy11 .t at 1:4. a week at tb1cn .cr ointor contributes 5 ( 124 ~ttend Jlirat !mrcr School). 124 Al!lo Aceol'd1zl4 to vi:Jit1) ~r orA. t..:.:oa l. r .. !'d thO 124 chl.lt.ren out . uhe to t.:0 thnt :oe tio:..chip with h1;:t 1.o eood ..l4 !:1.o ~ 1 ti.occl:!i t.o h1a brothcrtl ..!lld ei ot .ro ~ quito ~ ~ . a:d.nt!d...W t~t :he 18 at:.!.l.l ..:.t crcGtOO 1Jl 124 ~ J 1:'0 Te \T.l~a prcoen't L"'X'..:llJC~::.CntO to 0 0. ti.m.to • .... ?.::.o. 75 ( J Con't 1 d • ... Cart er.. tl10 Houdl':ltloter o~ l!1rut Towor tlchoo1 , \-.hioh 124 uaod to nt'tend. I spoke to h1l:1 roat.rd111,& o·ther mot:lbcra o 124 \lho nttond th:io ncbool . is :f'c:z11y, Ur. Oerl"'r told De tb4t had improved beyond :eeogcj.tio!l e:tter bcillO ceparntocl !ratA 124 but ehe Dtill hca to bo \"latched care.full.y. c.s ohe bna o. ~ et%'0tilt of to~:iX'r , rc~tn't:mnt to authot1ty and o. tc~J to be dlabonorrt. She lwl, ho\revcr, ~ en ~ 110 roel for o.t l ec.ot the pc..ot oi% r.onthJ.l. bas only just otm-t..,d ochool ~ !!r. C.r.rtcr wc.o tu.ll 0.1. }n'tliBa ! or hL.... .le 'io a brl()l-t.. f rlc:ndl.7, r.ell behaved bo;y, llhO Dh.<:me -~ ot bcMl:linB en intc111... t p1pU. Jtr. Carter bas no cotipl.eint o roaen\lll..,. the cbi.ldren' e tu.r.:u-Ou:t , a~ , and ph;yo1.cel care . I havo olno sean ~ I nr. 124 ternal ~tiler, ltb.o 11-vee ·s t in~wed . Hor attitude towudo her cleuGlrt~r, l:lOX'C J»l..J.dtr '\han i t nuo tot:~D "tim QBO . Sl.o rolu rD ~t , hno cl.&o been , T:'OUl.d appear to bo 124 bd oct-..te.lly been onrri~ tho :tether mui tbo.tt ~..e , ll:ld bittta']J 124 Datl:.or b""!oro hi» eietcr nppocod tho C\lbeequ.ent ~ . laf't lt:!O born and l1hon 124 \Tl:UJ ~ bot ..,een one c.ld 't71o :rears of OG•. He h fJ: not been oaen or heard o:f' oil::.co. Accordille to -o.t.bcr baa a ~ to r , bu't cbe i s :reaoonobl,J' corbin t ll4t her ~ 4oes not Tecent 124 boc aw:e of her experi.onaes. Sbo :teclo t hore 1e s till o. bani betvce n J:~Cther and D born be:f'oro lU.8 t:10tbor He oontim.t8 at &.ut de la Ga.rarc.o end t.bnt cont imted eUorla are cede to atfeet a bettor r elat1onM1p \'Jith 124 and b1s nother. • J 76 124 ~r osent t 1ea ~ • • :bo~ toA. - ... .:ell in o. I 225 & 491 .a-. Ocu&b. a::r. ~- ~. Gc~ .,..a..,41acu si on on 124 . It • ~a ~el t th4' bie homo cway anoour. _.nt . ::-. Oout;b ae t o atec:un w.1tb b-U call• •• 1t 124 c.oul cl be ucow It waa deo14fd to hUt a t h.:ce n l'7 •"~ , 3~ 1 124 d tr.r ~UE:iCY OF HO:~ \"!SITS. 74 MEMORANDUM To :From:· Ch ~ 1 o · rff co Date ....~.. .~ 5 .. 66~............................ 124 220 _. • t co ool P to ov o. .. cl b y P 1c no 1c t 220 0 d. h d e 220 0 p 1 • 220 69 124 I 5-!! c. B. cow to: j:: ,~ ) 0 SEp b vh JEitS~"( ~ I Tilbrook, "Esq . . (~~ I /V"' 1 124 me about -.7bllo I wae pt Bcut de 1e 11 124 It ap;po4rs that bas been &.eti!lg up11 during t heir ab seDCe Uld tbat his behaviour \illB a d i szuptive el&ElDnt at the Ho~i:e Gild to tbll 500 otatf. exproaeeo the opinicn t hat the t1.mo had now been reached in the absence of a Court Oroer, the ~ feasible atop wc;uld appear to be to di.ocbarge 124 to hie Om:l b.Ol38. 500 tpqke t The boy does not appear to have· responded to his throe yearo at 500 124 Haut de ln Gar0nne . I t old tbat I knew that oothor hod the oar:o troubl e Vlith him and that eho ohcmcd no oigna of belng anxious to have ber son back hom , I said t hnt I hod an open mind on tho matter, but agreed that 1:f no progreao wero bei.Dg zoode with the boy, one would have to acc e pt a situaU on Wbore he roturn!to hie cn:m hoas and thereafter :tece'i the oonac quenceo ot hie actions be!oro tho Court. I promised to oce 6ll4 thereafter d1GCUDo tho matter turther wi'Ul tbe Ohllaren ' e Otticor ,!tllld .sa. o:t Huut de la Ge.renne . ... 21. 9. 66 o.t ,.FJ.rst Tower and explA:lncd t o her the tro.y the ui.nd waa blowing . repea ted much of vJhnt ebo bne told 124 1l8 previously about She t old me thet he hao no rospeat tor hor aut hority or 1n fact for 8JlY authority1 axxl the.t while be wae at home She had to keep a ve ry c l ose watoh on oiga.ret tae ~ ,1110~ that he \"nUl nlso inc11ncd to bully therr~ • would not welcome him witl open ams 'by lUl,y means, abc would not refuse to have him. Saw Later that ~ · r.!r. Tilbrook telcphonod me a t hoD!! tuld eGlald m what had been tbo out cox:e of r:sy convol"f.).!tion with . \'Then I t old him• Llr. 'lllbrook indicated that he thou.gb.t waul diaotwrge 124 to his mother ' s oa.re that evening. I told Ur. Tilbrook that I bad not had an opportun:lt'f to apeak to the Ch11dren 1 o Officer, but he said that he ~ould do t hio. 124 , I 00\"1 124 a t St . Hel i e ;:- Boys ' School with !Jr. Dormer. ae usual 'imo onge.gillgly frank. He cede i t clear that he proterred to be nt ' Bout de la Garenne rather thnn at homo , but aloo Ctl1d bluntly t hQt boi.D« awu;y from hoii:O had not mde him fJrJ3 batter• lio appears to bave a c cepted h.ia discharge aXld undBrat o.nde that be 1.8 a.,_~/ now 1n a pooiti.on when be will stand or talJ. on hi.a ow mer1to, e:t--~ will only be re-adnitted i f he folio foul o-f the Lnw and tbllt th1.e 1 v1ll o.l.coat certainly mean him going to the nninland . I will keep in touch >lith 124 and hie mother on a purely Yoluntor;r basis . I am quito c ertain lkn my own mind that wlmt over bappellll Will whntevcr 124 decidoo . I f be w..mtn to go stra18bt and e1io,y out ot trouble he will do so. II not , nothirl8 that 9.lllbody aan do w1ll. probabl,y make any difference . A 1 hiL olhile by no mcllJl!J being a suitable solution in thia onoo , particularly 1n relation to tbe Cb1ld G..ddunoe Clini.o , 1t flOU.ld appea r to be about the only courae open to tho Dop3l"t.J:lellt at tho present t1.me ' and tibo lmous, 124 :night vcrr well do o1.l right a t hoae - Lot ' e hope ao / ' '_, ! ., -------55 124 & 220 )('Covi •• t o .Mr , 'lilbroox (2) '~ Do te 6 . 2 . 6~ Telephone oo.Ll from M.r. \ea tte , Hea\Jmae ter , Le e l,(uennevaia !)Choo l 124 & 220 to the e ffect tbot he be.lieved 124 vere truantin& from acbool. Mr . Wa tta indicated that bad been in aome trouble the prev ioue ony over the al.le6ed dJ. a a pJ.>earo u oe or money and he Eeula tha't ~be boy a mi~b t hilYe arra.n~eu to truont . l co.l.led to aao abort.ly ot t er an~ aha C(lnJ.' irmod 'that bad loft homo t o jl"O to ecboo..l that ~ornine~ . bbe told oe 220 "t'be t abe had had 8011)0 di ! .fiou.l ty wit.b the previoua 220 eveni.na . bhCI roaenta hJ.m uoing to ••• his w.thor t oo a~uch and taking other youn8 or aembera of t he tami .ly wit h hLm . 1 .lat e r col.led at H. do .La G. ond h nd a ge ner~ .l diacuaeion witb 220 Hr . Tilbrook abou t the ndviaabilit~ of readmittinG a a be ia not doina parti cu l arly wo.L.l thia t orLI throu~ h bia 124 aa eoci a tion with . ) However , enr.ly in the o£tornoon a tolephon~ c~.l l wu a received !rom !h1.ppint; At;onta, /'...,.., .•oz Lt 1 o~ i ur , thut tho Capt aa i.n of the , a coal boot which wae uuo l.o a ~;~.i.l toni ~ht , bad fou n d t wo boya in a lifeboat on board ehip . o n beinL remoTed Crom 124 tho veeao.l , one of tho boy e } ho.d g iven bia DAme • • nnu e u id tha. t h e h u.u ~n appo ntu eut vi th JJr . ColliDJt a t ~n u ~ h~.l~ vui dnnca C.linic that o£t rnoon . Lnfortuna tel) , i t wa• t bia v ery alibi wh ich cnuae~ hia downLe.ll , aa ~he Cot-tain had boon on tho vorue of cha•in6 both boy e uwny frog ~he nroa l However, they t hen chuck od with ~r . Col.lina and loornt tba~ t horo wa a no truth in tho etory . Tboy contac t u ~ the Chi l dren ' • Of!ice and 1 waa informeu wh o n 1 cumo in and p rocoodod 1 umuuiate.ly to the Uocka. ln tho meuntLme t he ~olice h ad a..leo boon intormod J ano 124 Cpl . l' orcy und two Constab le • arrived. M oxpoctod , lt waa 220 a nd - aa larGe aa lif o i ~ 124 Cpl . 1-'erc) checked l.luf.{'.,l bas and i t we.e crll.IDed-tull with v nrioua ar ticle• which a l l looked nbaolute ly new . At that ti•e, 1 t houbht tho boy a bau bewn on o e hoplif t1. n~ expo uit ion. 124 \o 0 8 i neo.lo n t anu un- co -opttrn l. i Ye t o the l'olioo . Throug hou t , Cpl . 1-'•.rcy c o n t inued to ae u rch hi~ and rounu 7/ ~d . in caab and a 124 was uno.ble t o account o ne pound note hidden in a .uu t cbbox . 220 tor t bia bu t c on ti. n uod to bo iuaolc r. t nco-o J.>er0.tive . rc•oi"t qu i e t anu bad l i t t le to any . ~ot h boya wore then roaovod to H • '< • f"or que a t ionin& , wh i.l• .l mude arr~ omen ta !'or t t. oir 220 odmJ.tonce t o H . oo lo O . p o nuing a Court a v vaaru11ce . ln ceae , l had &lr o Auy mad e t h o doci ai on,~ i t w~• o u vieable ~ha~ he return t o H , d o lo v . un\Jer ~he p ro een t Ordor . l t 124 ~ ~h are•• pro f' terod o e a i ne ' hia , then it woul u be a= u via nl>le £or hi.a to be a t H. d e .lo c. . in c u •to c.ly p enuint,. h i. a Cou.t t o pvoa.runco . I later c u ll e~ d to aeu S be wa a n o t p arl.icu.l ..r y DO ~ i ufona hur or d ev u lopmon ta . u p aet , ta.n cs o rov~a.lin£ reCJork a b e ..ado lf&a that ahe hopod t ha t t h ia wo ul d not h vo on ndv orae a! t ect on cho.ncea , I told t hut wou.ld be u e a l t with eoparo t ely on t h ui r mo ri~a . ~ u n tinu d • •• • • • • •• 7 1 51 Cont'd . ~ not 'l t h otMt wb•n l. cnl l 11d aa e b o 1 J..u .rt wor d - 1.\h tbo t woul d p roba bly be a unt to H. d e ~- c . 124 ._,.,. v ~• a t "'ork. 1.n troubl e a n4 ~ . . . ~ ---tt , 6 N:r. Til b rook l..a t u r \hilt *" ' U&~ 1 vae advi•ed by Cpl • .l'.rcy/that both boya bad boeD aent to H . d o lo o. pendLn4 Court appear ano••• 124 & 220 wore to • P ••oar bet'oro Cont . i.uoo at PolJ.ce u. •• 124 !"-tornoo n 1 bu t Mr. T.llbrook. ~dviaod .no ~bat ... ru.nninc a tamporatura . and in the circu •a t aacoa 1 wo n t round to ll. -.. . ~ in!o,-...d Cant . Luoo t. nd Cpl. l't~rcy ot' tbo poaitioD. ... 124 vaa t'it .nd It vaa oar-ed to p oat pone tbo onq~ until Eor arrona ••onu to b o '"""" tor tho boro' p ..ron t o to .,. 'bia , 1 prool ---------~ 52 CldlU.. • • Of11o.. 13th JebruU'1 1968 124 220 As soon u b.e bad reoov~red cu.f'fiei ttntl¥ f'raD hie Ulneaa alloweill out ot tbe Deten1ion roaD. 'l'fdq na hb MCOnd dq ot :tairl.T •pen1a10D and he helped 1n tba ld:~oh- . A' lunch ti.me 811JJp1cioua ot h1a ful"ti•el3 ud IUIU'lta 220 by wu looM beo.&~ZN and later notiCed \bat he wect to tho wu followed 124 toile~ %"at!uar . Stta ~ediatel.Y Womod & who 1ook all the boya under hie control and Wormed ae. I queat1 ned them all emd o.tte1• tba u.ual aad evafJ1011B the_r admitted that tbe,Y were pl • ni.Dg 124 to abscond. It aeca that thirc1 Part.T• I plQCed 124 b.a4 eont a ~Qeaaap back in tb& DeteDtioo to the other tYO bOTB Yia a :room. Be wUl allowed cut dlll"iDs tbt 4~ • ben the othara aro ·~ •obool. 220 will be read¥ for ~ool to::10rrow bu' 220 Do- DOW ~ be ana tirat haa 1o ... "entea1er n _ l ................ 124 RsY• n~ and be oont11'1:1:) that i t wee hia wggee'Uon. in the dormito17 pro-ta and .U aloep in the . .tontion .roc.c 1 47 124 124 vas first ack:itted at tho age of 10 to Haut de la Carenne on Novecber 1st. 1963 on a voluntary basis by order of the Constable o! St . Holier , following a roport of his stealing f r om local shops and from school . At that time ho was seen by Dr. M. Collins ,_senior Registrar, 124 was a severely Psychiatric Clinic who, in her r eport , noted that disturbed child who presented the typical picutre of the deprived child who had great ecotional needs which his mother was unable to supply 124 should because of her own difficulties in this respect , but that be encouraged to keep in close touch with hie mother. Dr. Collins ' assesscent was quickly confirmed by ~e and' at the time I noted that within the environment of Haut de la Caronna the child had a very agreeable personality and much charm; coupled with a degree of gullibility. Reports f r oc school were consistently favourable . 124 needed const~~t supervision but even At Raut de la Cerenne under these conditions he us eve~f opportunity to thwart authority and when given any freedoc , or ~ supervision was relaxed , he became even more unreliable and untrustworthy and was frequently involved in minor sots of indiscipline as well as stealing froc cecbers of staff and other chUdnn . In a Depart mental report early in 1956 I noted t hat although basiscally 124 friendly , often a delightful child, was lacking in stability, resentful of discipline , deceitful and often trucc~ent . I n May of 1966 l was involved Parish of St. John . 124 absconded frot!: Haut de la Carenne and with 220 ling and also with damaging an unused car in the The boys were severely cautioned by the Constable . In September 1966 it was apparent that no real p:ogress had been made with 124 and it was decided to take the calculated risk of returning him to his own home under supervision of a Child Care Officer to see whether he could make a better r esponse there . However, within weeks he was involved with others in furtter trouble and was eventually charged in co~plicity ~~th arson (see Mr. Thomson ' s present report) , 124 s very deep seated unhappiness are not difficult The reasons for to understand . He has been able to establish any warmth of relationship ~~th his mother and has, trJoughout cost of his life been completely lacking in all the essentials necessary to a developing personality. He fe els himself to be unloved , rejected ~,d unwanted . Bis mother ' s attitude is basically cold and fre~uently 'hostile to the boy, who is now uncaring and frustrated and 1.8 una~le to face t he futuro with even tho slightest hope of any real cocfort . A tremendous w:ount of time he.s been spent by the Children ' s Dopartment in 124 attempts to get a better underst~,di~~ between nd his mother but I fear 124 the reasons for a:1d attitudes are noli too deep seated for us to hold out ~"'!Y f"urthe::- hopes of success . The Children's Depart~::e:nt has no11 exhausted a ll po5sible chan."lels of help for t his boy , who so badly needo the stability of a norcal loving home , and is left with no nlternativo than regretfully to recommend be be sent to an Approved School . - Supe~ . 45 _____ELf!_ ----------L,.... - - - - - Form E. 0 . I STATES OF JERSEY EDUCATION CO MMITTEE S chool R eport for bearing at tht.. .. ...... ......... . .... . . . .. . ..... Court, Jcrs~y. ... 196 ... sitting on.. .... .. ... .... ........ PART 1- REPORT OF HEAD TEACHER 124 I. Name of Ju vendt: . 2. Address ............ .......... .. J . ( a) Ag e . '1 . /-¥- .. ......... .. . .................. . (b) Date of 8irth :...f -?. (C) Reli9ion Present School or las t School ;mended .. .LJ?;.. f adroitted .!.fJ.:I.CJ. :. f.(;, ...... (b) Attendan cc... 1'rn~•.~ ....... .. - lb. 11. . ". .'\.! (c) If left. date of lt~aving .. ~~~.'J4.rtif. ..fl:l;l,•f.J... .......... :...... .......... . 5. 6. C}f't'MJ.:.l.'ff:t...f.c;-hr.v.f.. ........~t!J 9 J.5 .. ...... ... .. .. . ... . .. .... ... ... ... ... ..S. t:: .!f.4{.C.r..P!!'J!..~ ...f!.J.t:. ~f..-:.P.d: t.t Prev1ous s chools 1f any, wllh dates. Standard of attainment 10 comparison w11h pupils of sim llar age : (a) Formal Subjects ... .. .. /h:r.rr:.ye............................................. .. ( b) Prnwcal subjects . .. ALl:r,t. J.i(j4t!J okn(( .. f!.A.~t... ......................... . Gt:ner;,l ;,bi hty ...... At~r't/e .. tP. o.6.(1(f!J!-:{.t;f,!fje. ............. .. (c) Games ..... (dl 7. ............................................ . . ... 8 ehav1our and d1spOS1UOo : (a) General school character an d {b) AS-"~oc•atloo (c:) Obedience conduct.flf. ck,y:/..J~· '· 1J.¥ttf.~!), fubl"/!11~. others cfftc-r"'Jciffl!1).4;c~. t4... h/fi!c:f:«1ifl~. 0~ ~~" ' ft /d ... • . TU~ i(f~ ·c'-~ ...aA.f.~tf.i!1..!l.!.~~fJ... f-.~~.. ........ • w;th IAI 1ft' Cft.IP1"\ .. P'~. t/i!;. ............. . A ftartc.Hd ./f~( ..~!.~?. d.1fL:j. ................... . (d) Pe rsonal hab11• an d clea nliness .. (t) M o r01l ddecls .. .. No. ftc..1Jft:l(to/.t.. P.~:.... ............. .. ( f) Is {s)he easily led. (g) Any "bnormahuts 10 ch01 ractcr o r a tUun ment. ........................... . ts. Has the Juvenuc ever attend.:d. or been recommtnded for. a spedal school ~ clllM fo r backward scholara 1 If so. ple:ut giv e d etails : ... ffq_,, 41 ___t... 9. Any oth~r infon:nauon which the H ead Teacher thin~ would be helpful to the Court : 124 '!. .~ ..t.~!lJ~~9.!!J.d,fc}to.(t. f!!J,.'=~~..lJ!!WJ . .('!J4l.fJ£J~ ..~tlY-(j:...lf:¥...1!~~~{.'M.~ .. J!. V / Head Teacher. DEP AATMENT AL USE School Medical Report. Att4chcd/ Nil. Children's Offic;r·, Report. Attacb~d/N•l. lnltiab. (delete PART 11 - wbich~v~r does not epply). DECISION OF COURT ---------- - - --·-42 124 .. Preaen~ly t a t Haut de la Father1 hereabout a Mother; llouaewi1"o . Siblinsaa Home addraaa t • S t . llolier . Previous Offence6 : Jersey Husiatrat ea Court , 66 - Arson - Probation (Order aubaequently discharged) Present O:ffence, - Larceny of money • 124 waa admittod to Hau t de la Garenne on the l .~L. 63 vhen be waa about ten years old . A~ tha~ t 1me, hia admiasion wae requested because o:t acute behaviour dif:ticultioa in the home and at school and he waa admit t ed undvr a Constable ' s Order from ~be ~uri ah o.f St . Holier . 124 father w4JS a who subsequently deeurted the family when 124 wae abou t two/three yeara old . There ia a history of considerable difficulty in the boy ' a relationship with his mother nnd there ia a good de~ o1" o~dence that ehe rejected hi~ in his early y•ara. After his admission to Haut de la Garenne , he remained there con tinuously un til Sept ember , 1966 . All efforts to rehabilitate him within his own home met with lit tl e auocesa and his behaviour often posed considerable problema . Ln Sept e~bur , 1966 , he returne d io tho core o£ hie mother and very dhortly after be involved in the o£fence of Arson . ~eforo the Court proceedings boen completed , one of the otbor boya involved in the of:t~noe , 493 , contmit ted auicido , and tho c-.ae vaa ultiQ&tely 124 dea l t w'i t .h y being placed on. Probation . An underat4U1<1ins had been rtiachvd with tho Probation Department that an attempt would be made by the Childrcn t s Of~ice to obtain him a place in a Reeidentinl 5pecial School E.ffor te to obt ain a place :tor him in such a school were and eventually in J anuary , 1967 , he vaa placed in Chi ldren's Home , , in the hope that a comple~~ change of enviro~ent might have aome beneficial 124 effect . Before long , hovever , vas expelled from two dayachoola and prolonged ne&otiationa tu ou~uin bia admiaeion to a keaidential Special Clinic for maladjusted boys proved unauccoaaful . Ult~ate ly , ho returned to Jersey in Ue c umbvr , 1967 and vas once again allowed to return howe to tbe care of his mother and to attend Lea ~ucnnevaia School , St . ~r~lade . Owin to the particu1ar circumetancoa o.f hie case, there ie no CoUL t Order in force in re&pect of him . uneucc~saful , Continued • •••• 36 2 • '· '' 124 J:n due course , became invo~ved i.n. the present offence and hie admission to Uaut de la Carenne wee arranged pending the disposal of hie case at Court . 124 Althout;h only previous recorded. conviction i.a the one Cor Arson , hie record bears no relation to tbe very great problems posed by b~a behav1our . Complete ly deceptive in appearance , be ia a cunning and persistent thief ae well ae a fluen t and ree courceful liar . He baa no ret~poct i'or authority , a.nd hie ability nt e vodi.ng guilt ia worthy of a profeaeional criminal . He ie of average intelligence , with above - average ability at mathematic• . He is darin8 and excels at physical euucation . Among hie contemporariea , he baa ~be ability to lead otbere who are older and bigger than himbolf . He ahowe no romoree tor any of hie paet conduct and his o~y regret ia at being caught. ~arninga , c.dYi.ce and appeals to hie better narure f'all on dea.t' .e are . K~e home is clean and comfortable . Hie and are well cared f r and have not p oeed 124 any ?roblems like . did make a genuine effort on thia most rec ~n t occasion , but ~here . ia noY little love lost between. motbgr and son . The Children ' s Service haa oxhauated thei.r own reavurcee in efforta ~o holp this boy a nd feel ~bat they can make no o ther recommenua~ion other than Approved bcbool Tra~ning • • 26 . 2.68 ______________________ ....._ -- - - - - - - 37 CHILDREN ' S OFFICE 124 8 . 9 . 68 Aa I ~as v ery near leave, I visited unexpectedly, Lovely old hou::.e and grounds and v ery ! riendly and atmosphere in the school . I met a number o! ~he otatt. since 1942 when he opened the Schoo:. . able t o have a long t~ • are WIU'lll have be en t here I lunched wUh the and was 124 ia in a small houcc , , which t akes 16 boys - there at present , Youngich hc;,;..<:::cparents , ?.lr, and Mrs , who have 124 obviously likes them both v ery much al:ld o! their own . ly with them, i s an He is coming over to Jer~ey to play in Fe he c an meet er..d nnd 124 ~'as very ;>leused t o eec mo , us obviously I was the ! irst v isitor be had had . He has no~ gro,·.n in hci<;h~ , although he tells me he has put on a few pounds in weiGht . He likes i t at the school and says i t is tar better t hen he thought i t wo\.lld be 11 they allow you to get on with t hings , al t hough it is up to you how you get on" . He has a ain£;le bedroOJD . He tells me that he hear s !rom and !rom at iiaut de le. Garenne . He seemed interested o have news ot every-c{.1e . I nas able ;;o tai;e some pol,yroid phot os and brought one back !or his mother, She does not wri te v ery o!ten evidently, , 124 a Housem1.1oter , told me that he thinks 124 s t ill hankers aft er ! inding t he 17i'.erl'abouts of his t nther and I explained to him h ow we had really pulled out o.ll t 1•<' otrings trying to :!ind him. 124 is in the t op streo.n for wor~ a."lrl really doing quite well . He plana to do his C. S .E , Engineeril'lt) next year and while we were t alking t ogether wi'th the Headm.cster .,,e talked abou t him starting mnch of which , o! course, h e already has a basic knowledge , 124 went !or two weeko' c :-.">J.! with some o! t ho boys , in He enjoyed this :..tr'.d CJ..il:lbed He hopes he will get back tor some leave at Ch.rict•r.:.. o , lJt4s;;::i ' A~ told hie Roueemaeter that if be had :c.a.vc !.r. ;;~ S ..:==-...,.~r his mother v1ould k eep him in a great deal nnd the Housemaeter .felt t.liut r a ue he.d not b~en v ery long at , it would be better to deldy r~o lc~ve , 124 certainly scerr.s qul te ci'lceri'ul and he sends mesnagos to all b:ia ditterent !riends in Jersey , I l Children ' s O!!icer. 28 M-EMORANDUM From:- To:- Date _ :::, _ - J . • l 0 .. . _ 124 124 124 21 STJ.TES OF JERSEY . CHILDI?.F..:~ TO : EDUGA'l'I ON COl·:tHTTEE 1 S SECTI ON THB S1J.PF.RIKTEKDEN T, lLiU T DE L.\ G;.RE}\Ni: . PLEASE RECEIVE :- ~~---~~124 .... XAME • .. • • DJ~ TE <1 _:;-~ OF BIRTH ADDR~SS ~:;,;;:~~- . "5-.c:.~: :. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . ..... Sig nod---;-/l./~e.~1t.. Pc- 9:(, .• .. .. . ·• •. .. ••• •. .•....• .•••••••• Dntc ... ~:4 :-:~-:-:7t?. ..... .. ... ..... . . . Desirrn~tion Ra nson for ad~ i ss ion Adr.ai t. ted by 23 Ht\UT 124 C 1sc· "'1 /o. ·c- v ,.,..t..£:1 vc a -:;ir"'•::C'n Co:,.=: •i is tr,ry ':·hc-f · r '""r: c~ •v~c~ uicn j fern NC!f'd for Cc•)':.tot.- • · s :. ccts . (: \(.Pf"•""" J '-1~1 t---,_,--,~. . J I_ jl r::; I I Regi5ter ccmp l e t ~d .J J I . . MEDICAL . ,' tcr" 1·i J.- ~ x::na. ~J··d Pu::.•t: Hr,:'"llt"1 ~ •• ilk .... ,i.,:--:::1 0'1 t.r.·•:"" t\ =o-ol,.: -, f\J."\ --- C ·., ;n ICtr"ing lrSteu \i'lclu'Jir"\Q p.-·rsonol ;:,oss• ~sions) ,3:-:. . -3 · v:· . z J' llt -IOU t dQ Jr ~r-n"' , __ _.r _• L 24 ~~ STATES ~:: OF .JERSEY EDUCATION CO MMITTEE CHILDREN'S Porm of appltcarion fo r ;f~ SECTION Educataon Committee 124 . Apphlat1on for aJm1ss•on o f ... Rtn~on A< '" for clJl( --~~/e/~ - .¢,.¢/ ~ #T./ ~~ - ?/ . .;H :":'_.:__; ~J.•.~ 19,..-rc ......,......,...o.o-lt:"t:rr. ~_ ~ hcatloo D<•tci. t=ull Nam~: of C hild Date ol Bmh 124 Place o f BITih I Religion BaPttsm P!act o f Date of --, .iJ j ru ll Names of Parents .. Jl;Hhcr'~ Q.-, IIJ .11 .: P lace of Btrlh on f\ l01hrr" ~ Or< up;-~ lion r\amr" of nrl:o·r duiJrcn N.nn,· of !>1.hool !::lr,ond<~rd I~ ca. (of tn fam .!-.·. nnJ Ja:cs of buth ,,nyJ att.:udnlll\ .-hdJ l11•d l uflllni!l.oa .h 1(1 I'll"\ ol)\. < " ' · · !l_.d llo~!OT\ ,,f P<11Cllt~ •• nJ Cht•.l•c:l n.luol.nll \.a,qn . .:.on-. c.Lpllllwr ..s nnmut.t ;ltao:h .. r duoJr<'IL and n;,mc an' nl.:< L:>('S th.: d!ll,:r,·n ho' ,. h;~d cllld DOCTOR'S CI'RTIFICt\TE I h•r !-' < { tl.h •i..,t 1 H" ,, p\, .• , .... ,,,. t:.•,• trnm , I ...·r .;I'" 1.'· ' otl:\ "" •,: l•'t.ta~U)' "' ('IJ~dOl"VU' dl~ ,rJ~r or Cllht;; r :ilf•."t. f.un ri:HJ , .. II .d t-l.'o:O.•h •·Jtl• 'U.'Uh \h~.-.lh7rt r.ir.l~e,1, I' nl•t•ont r Tl ' I· •rm ' '" 1 .• I• lol o,· CC•mr··~ · ·· l u:J ···nc '" th(' ChdJt 1.'11' Ot!Jo'"' :,s• "'' ~. th, f 1-.dt.nn Commlttt'<' h rfn rr tlsc d11ld •·· ·•·l 7J p .,. Rood • s '-'I .Jt.:r,\ !It ll•t' \:mube1 111 J\d1111'''~'.1 1~•' \J' :n Date admuto:d 25 14642 Haut de la Oarenneo March 1968. Use of Detention Rooms° 1966o Period o NSnle 14-22 Feb° 16-29 Feb° 172 16-19 Feb° 26 Feb- II March 26 Feb- 2 Nay 4 Mar- I Apr. 13 Mar- 22 Apr. SB 14 Mar- April (absoonded) 20 Mar- 20 Nay !, 24 Mar- 6 Apro 26 ÿar- 28 Mar. ......... 28 Mar- 4 Apr. 13 Apr- 18 Apro 22 Apt- 23 Art SBÿ 7 May- !3 May 13 May- 20 May 27 May- !5 July ;I q SB I 340 27 May- 14 June. 28 May- 31 May SB 11 June- 14 June III I:! 29 June- 2 July iÿ,L: I July- 2 July &irt I July- 5 Aug. I July-16 Deo0 i I July- 11 July 22 July- 8 Aug° i !'# 29 June- 7 Sept° i! ;ÿ 30 July-31 July SB I!, .) 1 Sept,-7 Sept. i 7 Sept.-17 Sept. i 13 Oct°- 14 Oct. [, L 24 Sept °-25 Sept. ) Iÿ ii! )! SB SB 493 17 28 Sept.-29 Sept. 1 14643 '7 Use of Detnetion Rooms 29 1967o Nameÿ Period o 303 1 night 126 * 6 Jan - 13 Jan. * 18 Jan - 6 Feb° * 25 Jan- 5 Feb. * 20 Feb.-25 ÿar. * 21 Feb,-23 Feb0 * 17 Maro-20 ÿaro * 29 ÿ[aro- 7 July * 9 ]ÿ%v" - 9 ÿsJ" (2 a.m. - 7 a.m.) * 18"Nÿ7 - 19 June 26 May - 26 Oct° (odd days in det,room,) 26 June- 27 June 30 June-7 July * 21 July-12 Augo * 11 Aug.-25 Aug. * 27 Ang.-29 Aug° / 4 Sept.-18 Sept° * 28 Oct.- 24 Nov° * 18 Nov.- 23 Nov° . * 4 Jan°- 17 Jan° 354 31 Jan.- I Febo * 28 Jan.- 3 Mar. 124 ,- present date° 1 1 Mar.- '1 " 7 Mar.- 8 Nar. 7 Mar.- 8 Mar,, (Staff room. ) 416 indicates child in det, room al! the time (eEoept for work etc.) B " " " sick room. i' . here have been times whenÿ if detention rooms are fÿllÿ we have needed to place hildren for temporary short periods in sick bay or dormitory, he following children have spent brief periods in the rooms when beyond "control urlng staff shortages: 220 41 123 452 2 LA CEY A D V O C A TES Independent Jersey Care Inquiry Education Sport and Culture Department Documentation DELTA D ESC D 00034 Relevant Education Committee Minutes, Children's Sub-Committee Minutes and Reports 1967 1 10. (1st M t g , ) 4.1.67. understanding that she could not suh^eq^uently expect to be offered a post at Haut de la Q-arenne. Children 's SuhCommittee minute s 14.12.66. 36. The Committee received the.Minutes of the Children's Sub-Committee dated 14th December, 1966 (Appendix C) and approved iteias Nos.l, 3> 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 , 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23,'24,' 25, 27, 28, 30 , 31, 32, and 33. C.l Iv!iss Matters arising Thornton 2J F j c V. T t (a) Mrs. Lake man - The Committee instructed the Dire c tori of Education to send a letter of thanks and appreci a tion to Mrs. H. Lakeman who had completed her term of office as a co-opted member of the Children's Sub-Committee on 31st December, 1966. (b) Holidays for children in care - The Committee decide^ that the Children's Sub-Committee should consider t he holiday plans for all children in care at Haut de 1 Garenne and the Pamilj'- Group Homes as a whole and bring forv/ard their recommendations at a future meeting. The Sub-Committee's attention was drawn to a previous decision of the Committee that children at these establishments should not, . . necessarily have a holiday away from them every year. The Committee v/as also of the opinion that it was in the interests of the Houseparents of Pami Group Homes to make arrangements to take part of their leave av/ay from the Groups. (c) Moral Yfelfare Worker - The Committee considered the request of the Children's Sub-Committee that, having regard to the increase in the number of cases of unmarried mothers, the Establishment ' Committee should be asked as a matter of urgency to proceed with the appointment of a Child Care Officer as recommended in the Committee's Act No.1 6 (a) of 24th August, 1966, and to consider the appointment of an additional Child Care Officer rather than grant aid the Diocese of Winchester to enable a Moral Welfare Worker to be appointed by the Diocesan Council for work in Jersey, Before considering this second appointment, the Committee asked that its representatives should discuss the case for appointing a Moral Welfare Worker with the Dean of Jersey and the direct representatives of the Winchester Diocese. 355 L 355 355 2 1-9. :id M t g . ) ■18. The Suti)-Coimnittee rjhad heen readmitted to |this ‘girl's ifuture'," the ^reports on her progress noted that (d/o 51} the Centre and, in view of the concern about Supervisor was requested to submit monthly to the; Director of Education is. 'The Sub-Committee referring to its minute No. 8 of 9th November, 1966 was informed that e continued tocause trouble on the Centre's transport and at the Centre. It was decided that his fccase‘should be reconsidered when reports had been received on him from ^the'School Kedical Officer and! Dr. Fogarty. a*u . The Sub-Committee approved the attendance of &the N.A.M.H. Conference at Wes^tminster on 24th and 25tli ’ebruary, 1967^ i-:21. 'The Sub-Committee received the report of the Children's Officer for November, 1966. ;''22. !The Sub-Committee expressed concern at the increase in the number •;of cases of unmarried mothers and the amount of time spent by the Child Care Officers on these cases. ^ In this connexion the Sub-Committee vas informed that the Mothers' Union Presiding Member for Jersey had written to the President of the Education Committee saying that in the ^opinion of the Mothers' Union it was .essential to have a trained Moral ;>Welfare VJ'orker in the Island. The Sub-Committee recalled t:n.t the I .t. Education Committee had previously decided that it cc’.i.l': not offer '^financial assistance to the Diocesan Council for this purnoseThe Children's Officer supported by the Child Care Officers considered that as they would in any event be required to deal with Vthese cases at a later stage they would prefer to handle them from the , outset provided the d.epartment was adeq^iately staffed. ■ m In this coruiexion the Sub-Committee decided to ask the Education ’Cqmittee to press the Establishment Committee to approve the. appointtneht of an additional Child Care, Officer as requested bearing in *jiiind that as an alternative the States might be asked to make a ^substantial grant to a voluntary body. ■ ' ,'23. The Committee, referring’,to its Minute No. 20 of 9th November, 1965 Mvas. informed that had now been declared by the Royal Court as being in need of care and protection. She was vforking at and living at the Girls' Hostel, Cam'elot.' : ?',24. The Sub-Committee referring to its minute No. 20 of 9th November, ij.966, was informed that Hr. Sherry on behalf of the Constable of St. Helier, had interviewed and as a result the rent ^nharged to Mr. and Mrs. for accommodation at | had been reduced from £4 10s. Od. to £5 Os. Od. per week. . ; ■ ' | ‘ ; '^^;25. The Sub-Comalittee was informed that the family now living in were in financial difficulties and decided that it ' ;'-was unable to concur ’with the suggestion of the Children's Officer that; ?ythey should be given financial assistance. The Sub-:Committee were ^informed that it was within the powers of the Children's ; department to assist this family in ■,accordance with the terms o &Act, 1963 , and instructed the Children's Officer to inform the ^Authority of its decision. ,. . 26. e decided to- recommend to the Education Committee > 124 •that d.b. 53 should be admitted to a special \ ^boarding school in the United Kingdom. . | 5 81: EDUCATION iV CHILDREN'S COMMITTEE SUB-COHMITTEE ^Minutes of a meeting of the Children's Sub-Committee held at the ^Education Department, Pier Road, on Monday, 9th January, 1967. Deputy A. C. Queree - Chairman R. H. Le Cornu, Constable of St. Mary Mrs. St. J. Birt Mrs. J. B. Norton Present: X, &;in ^■Attendance: - f 'ta 01- r ; 'V;j ',;" >‘ i3 K. P. Carlin, Administrative AS^WajLint Miss P. L. Thornton, Children's ^ ^ i c e r C. Smith, Deputy Children's Offic^ id%i^, Ha^lt de la Garenne C. H. Tilbrook, Superintend (items Sos. 5s. I % ^ o 17 ) Mrs. M. E. Abbott, Supaji^isor, Junior Training Centre (Iten/Nfetg^. 18 to 25) Mrs. L. Bygrave Mrs. H. Jackson ) Child Care Kiss M. Preece ) Officers J. H. Thomson Mrs. J. E. Bovrmai? Secretary =>;i ,■ ‘.'ft-'i tte e 1 cow "A®--I . >r*> 'Hm\ spyl'-ril C fro u p e n e n ts W-i-'. 1. The Chairman -welcomi opted member of the Sub-ComS to the meeting as a new co5ee. 2. The Sub-Commii^e nofled that Sir Lindsay Parkinson Ltd. had given an assurance that t W ^ J a M l y Group Home at Le Sequee would be available for occupation M a r c h ^ l 9 6 7 , and that the contractors had now found j that it would b e p ^ s i b l e to provide a play area in front of the house I 3. The S u b ^ o ^ i t t e e was informed that as from 1st January, 1967 279 had accepted the post offered to her as Housemother at the FaJu^y Gr55\ip Home to be opened at when the present Growi^move to Le Sequee, and that ■until the house was available 279 for oo^ppetWJm arrangements had been made for to work at Haut de^*^^Garenne | Sub-Committee noted that the 1967 holiday arrangements for all |ly Group Homes and Kaut de la Garenne would be discussed at | meeting of the Sub-Committee. i i 5. With reference to Minute No. 15 of the meeting held on Wednesday,| 14/n December, 1966, the Sub-Committee recorded its thanks to j who had undertaken the cooking at Haut de la Garenne over the Christmas Holidays free of charge. E d e 'l a peBn$ ph€aent S o u seIn ts

i

6. The Sub-Committee was informed that had accepted the joint appointment offered to them as Houseparents at Haut de la Garenne from 1st January, 1967.

18

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j 7. With reference to Minute No. 22 of the meeting held on Wednesday, ! 14th December, 1966, the Sub-Committee noted that arrangements had been ceban made for the Chairman, the Director of Education and the Children's |¥elf^' Officer to meet the Establishment Committee to discuss the appointment of an additional Child Care Officer.

I

After discussion it was decided, when a decision had been reached regarding this additional appointment, to invite the Mothers' Union Presiding Member for Jersey and the Dean of Jersey to • a meeting of the Sub-Committee to discuss the Mothers' Union's suggestic^: that a Diocesan Moral Welfare Worker was required in the Island, and that the Committee should bear part of the cost of this appointment.

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Vfednesday, 8. With reference to Minute No. 32 of the meeting cation 14th December, 1966, the Sub-Committee noted tjiat ommittee's Committee at its last meeting had approved the be attended by that recommendation that a child in a foster home sh' rom Children Boarded family's private doctor, the accounts being met Out Vote, No. 2941.

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The Sub-Committee received the C December, 1966 and was given further i children:-

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.61)

'\i| , ,, •M

ill;:

64).

(

'M

124

.54)

(

126 '‘i!

.55)

49)

124

10.

The Sub-Coramittee’> < ^ ^ that efforts to place .53 ) in a s p ^ i a l r^idential school had been unsuccessful but that arrangements m^i^ieen made for him to be admitted to a small Children's H o m ^ i n on a trial basis whilst he attended a day secondary school /ith the prospect of later admission to a residential clinic for malad^>^^ed children.

: 11. The Sub-C^mittee decided to recommend to the Education Committee j that con^kaiiililLlou be given to a boarding out payment of £2 10s. Od. a ' week to tn^i^randmother of .61) in which i had bgen a g r ^ d by the Chairman on 9th February, 1966.

^F:i lldren I 12.1 The ^b-Committee decided to recommend to the Education Committee arded Out ! tha^fl-utJaiority should be given for payments to be made from the Boarded 5ut Children Vote No. 2941 for any child who vfas boarded out away from Sftside of rsey iV. ! M'l ...i.

'Vijiti

pardi^ ivLitem

The Sub-Committee agreed that the Education Committee should act as Guardian Ad Litem in the follov^ing case pending adoption:

'1'.: to adopt T!

' Il

, -iij PI ’ '! |. 1 I '1 ! i‘.ii

ll/'l

!i

M

'h

(

I'i*\ i'ldren in

66).

14 . The Children's Officer placed before the meeting the six monthly reports of the follovring children in care: 144 428

78

427

i'l. )■; '.i t

1 1 •I 1 j ••

19

124

NAME _____

Date

_______________

Brief History of

124

DATE OF BIRI'H ------- - - - - - - - - - -

.

124 the children, was first referred to the Children ' s Office and the Child Guidance Clinic in October, 1960 whilst still six years old for pilfering at school. This be~ a fixed pattern and at the age of nine he was said to be ' stealing on a large scale and 124 to be a ready and fertile liar ' although quite intelligent . was also seen as ' disturbed ' and ' deprived ', a possible contributory factor 124 being his father's permanent desertion of the family when was about two years old . Also at the age of nine his violent temper and aggression towards other chil dren was noted .

In November, 1963 ,

124

Mr . H. Coomer,

'I

Child Care Officer .

124

48

f ^

y

States of Jersey Police

(

OPERATION RECTANGLE FINAL REPORT Prepared by Detective Inspector Alison Fossey September 2010

r

11

2.

EVENTS LEADING UP TO OPERATION RECTANGLE

2.1

Police enquiries into suspected child abuse at HDLQ began with an investigation

in 2003. The suspect in this investigation was I(a former resident o f HDLG 1963 - 1969) and the |. He was a frequent visitor to the

home who was allowed by staff to take boys out on day trips over a number of years.

alleged that he was the victim o f buggery, indecent

assault and acts of gross indecency at the hands of

during these

trips and this was the|

Unfortunately whilst his complaint o f sexual abuse was believed to be genuine there was'no corroborative evidence and therefore it was deemed by the force legal adviser at that time that there was insufficient evidence to mount a prosecution. This was indicative o f the legal position at that time which is still current today, namely, that it is the long standing policy and practice of the Jersey courts that in cases involving alleged sexual offences a corroboration direction must be given as follows:

.

“Experience has shown that people who say that sexual offences have been committed against them sometimes and for a variety o f reasons tell lies. Such false allegations are easy to make and frequently difficult to challenge even by an entirely innocent person. So it is dangerous to convict on the evidence of the complainant alone unless it is corroborated, that is independently confirmed, by other evidence.”

8

2.2

how ever, n ot only alleged that he had been a victim o f sexual abuse at the hands o f ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ b u t also Thom as H A M O N , a previous house father at H D LG . In 2005 Thom as HA M O N w as charged w ith num erous offences o f historical indecent assault relating to nine separate com plainants These occurred during the tim e that he was associated w ith HDLG and St Jo h n ’s Am bulance, betw een 1964 and 1989. H A M O N pleaded guilty in A pril 2006 and w as due to attend court for sentencing w hen he suffered a heart attack and died.

2.3

D uring the investigation into Thom as H A M O N it becam e apparent that was not an isolated victim at HDLG. In addition, according to a report prepared by Acting D etective Inspector Peter H EW LETT, there w as a perception w ithin the Island, w hich had existed for m any years, that H D LG was a sinister place w here residents w ere abused. Som e o f them w ent on in later life to becom e involved w ith the Police on a regular basis and it is also a fact that a few w ent on to take their own lives as they struggled to cope on a

1

day to d ay basis. In accordance w ith ACPO G uidance on the Investigation o f H istorical Institutional Child A buse (2002), A cting D etective Inspector Peter H EW LETT, undertook a scoping exercise to ascertain the size o f the potential enquiry. This docum ent was subm itted in April 2006 to the States o f Jersey Police M anagem ent Team . N o action was taken at that tim e, however, the report w as not specific about w hat type o f abuse occurred at the children’s hom e and identified no victim s.

9

Independent Jersey Care Inquiry

Education Sport and Culture Department Documentation

DELTA D ESC D 00033

Relevant Education Committee Minutes, Children's Sub-Committee Minutes and Reports 1966

1

states

of jersey education

committee

CHILDREH'S SUB-COMMITTEE Meeting to be held at the Children's Office, 23 Pier Road, on Wednesday, 13th April, at 2.30.p.m. Haut de la Garenne. Superintendent's Report. Number :>f children in residence during March all agessB(iys Girls Remand Boys Girls

35

23 5 3 M II

66

- 11.

u

( 51. - 15+) was admitted on 4th March by order of the Magistrates Court after pleading guilty to the larceny of money from gas meters.

i!

f

i

1;

V

,

I

?

I I

( 49-16+) was admitted by order of the Kagistr-a: Court on 24th March where he had been charged with possessing an offensive weapon- a .45 revolver, ( 49) was admitted at the request of the police pending his appearance before the Coarl charged with robbing wifcu violence. ( 49-16+) was admitted on 28th March by ordar of the Constable of St.Helier at the request of the Police. who is facing charges for motoring offences, ran away from home and became destitute in Jersey. 1954-12) was admitted on 31st March by oi-dor the Constable of St.Helier after he and his mother had become homelcs;: following a threat of eviction. The detention rooms have been in ' different times.

for eight children at

42

f

-

DISCPIAP&ES;

2

-

6

( .50-15+ )was transf erred to the J .A. r.F.” 0irls' Hostel, on 11th Jiarch to join , leaves school this summer and will, therefore, have a chance to settle dovm before she com.nences employment. .50-15+)who had been admitted the preVi0us"”mon'th and was charred at the Police Court with drinkinr under are, was sent back to his parents on 11th Ivlarch. ’■'’e have had a report from the-Children's Officer, 64.- 14 months) v/as discharged on 20th March to* tiie care of her mother, when they v/ere both committed to ( 49- l6+)appeared before the Police Court Magis tra"'te and was ordered to return to the care of her parents. The Probation Officer escorted her back to England , but she has again run away from home, ( .49)was returned home to the care of his adoptive parents after being birched in H.Li. Pris on. ( to adopters on 29th March,

.65-5 months) was discharged

( 5 .5-50) This boy has been for an interview to . He has been accepted and v-/ill go to the school on 2nd i/Iay. As he appeared before the Royal Court he is chargeable to the Prison Board. He will need a complete outfit of clothing. EENEBAL. The followin.g children were admitted to hospital during the month and have now been discharged stemperature'” .

(15 months)beca use of a high (6 years) Had

( .50) a girl who had had many difficulties and v/ho has been at Haut de la larenne for four years. Recently passed as «-uide 1st Class and has also qualified in the Duke of Edinburgh Bronze Av;ard , S 'TAEE_. (Residential) houseparents for the in termed ia te group, who joined the staff at the beginning of the month, appear to be settling down all right. v/ere interviewed during the month and were offered ano accepted the post of houseparents with the senior group. They are nov; in residence. , Nursery Assistant, left at the end of the month to get married and Hursery Assistant, left as she preferred to live in town, '■'e are now short of Mvo ITursery Assistants, but are being helped temporarily by 3 sixth form students from College and one 15 year old girl from Les Quennevais School.... .continued .

43

has been interviewed and offered the post of relief housemother at a salary of £520 , plus £6o for her Home Office qualification , less £133 emoluments , I'lr. T.C. Hamon has been interviewed and offered the post of relief housefather at a salary of £595, less £133 emoluments. S'ilAPF. (ifon-Residential) j who v/as employed on a part-time basis at the Westaway Creche and subsequently moved to Haut de la Carenne, lias found the v/ork too much and has now left. daily domes tic, has resigned, and has returned to the staff as a daily domestic. '7e are now 7 hours short in the daily domestic staff. IE COU'MR PRIZE.

Two of the conditions of this prize are that a child must have attained the age of 12 years and have been resident at Haut de la Carenne for tv/o years. These qualifications would recommend that the Committee of Trustees for the le Couteur Fund vary the conditions so that any child who has reached the age of 11 and has been resident at Haut de

C .H . T i l b r o o k , SITPERK 'jENDEHT.

44

EDUCATION COmiTTEE

STATES 0? JERSEY. CHILDREN’ S

SUB

COMMITTEE

1 Meeting to be held a t Haut de l a Garenne on Wednesday, the 7th September, 1966 f at 2,30 p.m.

HAUT DE LA GARENNE. SUPERINTENDENT'S REPORT I Number o f ch ild ren on r e g is t e r as a t 31st August, 1966

VRemand;

G ir ls Boys

29 42

G ir ls Boys

— 1 72

o f which 21 were away on h oliday Total nvunber of ch ild ren d e a lt 7/ith during month

Remand;

G ir ls Boys

30 43

G ir ls Boys

2 1 76

10 (plus 4 on h o lid ay b a sis)

Holiday; ■L

were admitted on the 13th August, 1966 by order o f the Constable o f S t , Lawrence, a fte r the m other's d e sertio n . These ch ild ren were p revio u sly a t Brig-y-D on, 41

,5 4 , 12+, was admitted on 13th August, 1966 by agreement able o f S t , H e lier, a f t e r the b o y 's foster-home placement broke dovm, due to fo ste r-m o th e r's i l l n e s s , ,5 3 , 13+, v/as admitted from the Family Group Home a t Clos de Roncier on 17th August, 1966, by agreement with the Constable o f S t, Brelade. 463

b, .66, 2 months, was admitted on 22nd August, 1966 by order o f the Constable o f S t , H e lie r, a f t e r an adoption breakdown on medical groiinds, ■ ’ b. .6 6, 1 1 days, was admitted on 23rd August, 1966, by order of the Constable o f S t. H e lier, because o f the sudden i lln e s s o f h is mother, and her admission to h o s p ita l. Dr, T aylor f e e ls stro n g ly th a t t h is sm all baby, who was being b re a st-fe d , should have remained w ith i t s mother. were admitted on 3rd August, 1966, a f t e r the d esertio n from the home o f th e ir f o s t e r fath er, which resu lted in the f o s t e r ^ o t h e r having to leave her home,

a

t b, 66. days, was admitted on 23rd August, by order o f the Constable o f S t, Saviour, a f t e r had refused to accommodate the baby, i s ille g it im a t e .

103

DISCHARGES

5 (plus 2, who were on h oliday) fi‘4)

Holiday: b, ,5 2 , 14+, was presented before the Royal Court, to geth er with b, .5 1 , 14+, on 5th August, 1966, was placed on Probation and was allowed home, ’’ v/as a lso placed on probation on condition th a t she remained a t Haut de l a Garenne u n t i l fu rth e r order. b, ,5 0 . 15+, v/ho had been admitted as d e s titu te on 22nd J u ly , 1966, appeared before the P o lice Court M agistrate to face th a t charge, and a fu rth e r one o f la rcen y. He was bound over f o r th ree years on 8th August, 1966, and was ordered to be escorted to England by the Probation O ff ic e r to face fu rth e r charges in England, b. .6 6 , days, was discharged to the care o f h is parents on 26th August, 1966, a f t e r h is m other's discharge from h o s p ita l, GENERAL .':n

452

b. ,5 3 , 13+, was knocked down by a m otor'Scooter on 26th August, 1966 and su ffered abrasions and a puncture wound to her le g . The 452 Local Centenier was informed, and v/as attended to by the Deputy Medical O ffic e r o f H ealth, b. ,50, 16+, the p rin c ip a l w itn ess in the Sodomy Case, is now in detention each n ig h t, but jo in s the Sen ior, or Interm ediate group during the day, under the s t r i c t su pervision o f a male mem.ber o f s t a f f . Pour ch ild ren , , who v/ere here v/hilst studying fo r t h e ir C .S.E . Examination, have passed and a l l have obtained one or more equ ivalen t 'O ' L evels, which i s very encouraging, STAPP

-

(Non-Re s id e n tia l)

, an a s s is ta n t cook, has found a job as a canteen manageress almost •3, ^ .b C next door to her house, and w i l l be le a v in g soon. 6TAPP

-

(R e sid e n tia l)

was interviev/ed by the Chaiimah o f the Sub Committee, Mr. Smith and m yself, and was appointed as Nursery Nurse a t a sa la ry o f £600 p .a . plus £60 f o r her N,N^E,B, q u a lific a t io n , le s s £133 fo r emoluments, I would recommend I would recommend Sub Committee and fu rth e r recommend

have now completed t h e ir s ix month's probationary period, and th at t h e ir appointments be confirmed. Before doing so, however, th a t they be interview ed by the Chairman o f the C h ild ren 's the C h ild re n 's O ffic e r a f t e r my retu rn from lea v e , and I would th a t t h is procedixre be adopted fo r a l l s t a f f in fu tu re .

Junior Nursery A ssista n t has tendered her re s ig n a tio n and w i l l be leavin g on 30th September, 1966, Mr, T. Hamon has resigned from the post o f Housefather and he w i l l be returning to the S t a t e s ’ Ambulance Service

\

C.H. TILBROOK Sune rintendent

104

982 Statement of:

342

Form MG[ 1 (T) Page 1 of 8

STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Witness Statement

Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jersey) Law 1988

342

Statement of:

Age if under 20: OVER 18 (if over 20 insert 'over 20')

Occupation:

UNEMPLOYED

This statement (consisting of 6 page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true. 342

Signature:

UD

Date:

10/05/2008

Tick if witness evidence is visually recorded [] (szLppIy witness details on rear)

In the case of witnesses who produce e:vhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the

witness statement MUST contain the fol!owing endorsement:"I am employed as ...... at

"

As such, part of my responsibilities includes making witness

statements on behalf of ........ I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of ....... These records may be either paper

based or computer based, which have been subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to ........ and were compiled, at every stage by

staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied."

Signature:

342

Signature witnessed by:

D ROBINSON

2010/11

1

983 Statement of:

Date:

342

Form MG 1 l (T) Page 2 of 8

Signed

Will State: 1. I am making this statement of my own free will and during this statement I will describe certain events that happened to me whilst I lived at Haut de la Garenne. I have not given any names or identified any places that are not purely within my own knowledge. The police have not forced me to say anything that I don't want to say or did not know before the Police spoke with me. 2. The circumstances of me going into Haut de la Garenne are that my mum used to go in and out of hospital a lot and I believe that I went in there on two or three occasions. The first time that I went in there was between-the ages of four, five maybe six years old. I was only in there for I believe two to three weeks. The person who was in charge of the home at the time was a Mr MAGGS. I was too young really to go in there and I was just petrified 3. When I went into the home on a full time basis I remember that a Mr TILBROOK was in charge 491

of the home and a TILBROOK was

was his

and he was married.

491

was

when

I cannot remember if this was what I am calling the second time that I

went in.

4. I know that When I went into Haut de la Garenne on a fuli time basis, it was either 196 l or 1962 and I would have been aged seven or eight years old at the time. I cannot remember if this was the second occasion that I went in or a subsequent occasion. I can say that nay mother died in 1966 and I stayed at the home because of this until the age of 16 years. 5. When I went into the home, I started off in the junior group and I cannot remember who was in charge of this group. At the time there were the juniors, intermediate and then the senior group. During my time there, I moved up through the groups to the seniors but I cannot say the ages that I moved between the groups. However when I was in the senior group then I had started at the St Heliers boys school.

Sig-natq.lre:

342

D

Signature witnessed by:

D ROBINSON

2010/11

2

984 342

Statement of

Form_ MG I ! (T)

Page 3 of 8 6. i cannot say who was in charge of the groups when I was there. However ! do remember that a

Mr WILLIAMS and h

ere in charge ofthe senior group. She was in charge of the senior

girls so I calmot say a lot about her. Mr WILLIAMS was in charge of the senior boys. 7. The other boys that I can remember who were in the senior group at the time I was there were

338, 284 & 186

here was boy called E

and a

There were so many people that were coming and going that i cannot remember. I am unsure about the spelling of these names. 8. I can remember that my

as also in there but he was five years

older than me and in a different group. There was also a

493

and we were later

told that he had been playing in a tree and that he had slipped out of the tree and the rope went round his neck and it was an accident and he had died. I later found out that

but

we were never told about this at the time. 9. They were saying thatpeople were disappearing, well they were but not like that. People would be there one week and gone the next and all we were told that they had gone back to their parents or gone back home I would not have questioned this. I had no reason to believe that there had been any foul play or anything like that. I do not remember the names of any of these children. 10. In relation to my experiences at Haut de Ia Garenne, I can say that I was never sexually abused and I might have been physically abused because of some of the things that we were made to do and I saw this as a punishment for being naughty and this was considered the normal and you did not

think any thing of it. 11. I can say that one of the punishments was known as 'buffering' the corridor. The staff would wme aÿuulxd vviÿi ilallU±U_lo oi I..]uiiÿ11 allU CliiUw IL Ull LI±ÿ:; l.Iuul uJ_ tIIU tQUlllklUl. I ULI Wgig ÿIVUIJL Llllb

lump of steel with a rag on the end and you had to use this to buff the flooring. The reason that you

were made to do this was if you were caught play fighting with the others or pillow fighting with them, smoking or you were out of bed when you shouldn't have been. If you caught doing this during the day there was a different form of punishment. This punishment only occurred at night if

Signature"

342

Signature witnessed by:

D ROB INSON

2010/11

3

985 Statement of

342

Form MG 11 (T) Page 4 of 8

you were caught at night. I used to hate doing this punishment but you just got on with it and accepted it as your punishment and that was it. 12o Williams who was in charge of our group, was prone for this in coming and 'lobbing' you out of bed. This would happen if you were caught mucking about and it happened to me and nine out of

ten times it would be he that did this. However if WILLIAMS was away and charge then it was

491

491

was in

that would do it. Every time that you made the bed he would strip it

again.

13. I remember that there was one occasion when WILLIAMS tripped a boy backwards and the

boy hit his head at the end of the bed. The boy had said something to him and Williams thought he would try to be clever by tripping him up. The mattress had been stripped off and exposed the metal. The boy split his head wide open and it was frightening that night because there was so much blood. They had to rush him off to hospital and we thought that they had 'done him in' because of the blood that was in the bedroom but he came back with a load of stitches in his head. I think the boy's name might have been

.

14. Another punishment that I can remember is that if I was caught smoking for example then

TILBROOK would make me go and stand outside his flat all night. When this happened there were • .

occasions when I didn't know that he had forgotten me I thought he had done it on purpose but as an adult looking back on it, I believe that he has forgotten me and gone to bed. It wasn't on every occasion that I was left there all night and I believe that this happened on about three occasions. The rest of the times that it happened it was only two to three hours possibly four° If I had walked back to my dormitory I don't lmow what he would have done.

15. Me and

did not like each other that much and we were always fighting and

niggling each other. If we started to fight then WILLIAMS would clear the dining room and close the dining room doors and tell us to 'get on with it', until one of us came out and touchwood that was always me. You would come out with split lips, cut eyes and literally you fought until one of you were standing and the other one had given up. That happened quite a few times but also to the other kids but it

. We were made to go into the

room and c!osed the doors and told to get on with it. WILLIAMS used to wait outside until one of us came out.

Signature:

342

Signature witnessed by:

D ROB INSON

2010/11

4

986 342

Statemen

OBERT

Form MG1 I(T)

Page 5 of 8 491

16. I did not see much of TILBROOK or duty or away as it was th

TILBROOK look after us it was

and it was only when th

were off

who were in charge of our group. Very rarely did 491

mainly when the

17. There were occasions that I was going to the others by bus and also because the

ere not there. and I used to have to go to they used to put me in the detention

rooms so that I did not disturb the others. I used to sleep in there and the door was unlocked so I could come and go when ever I wanted to. It was just like having another room because there was no where else they could put me. 18. However there were other occasions when I was put in there after I had run away from the home and this was as a punishment. I used to run away because I was sick to death of being made to

do things that you did not want to do and I did this six or seven times. It was always TILBROOK who put me in there. I would describe the room as a room with a window that looked out over the car park or hedge and it has a mattress and nothing else. I had to ring a bell that was in the room to be allowed out to go to the toilet and then the staff would come and ask you what you wanted and let you out. They didn't always come straight away. There was no toilet in there and no washing facilities but you were allowed out to wash in the morning. There was a light in there but it was controlled by the,staff. There was no recreation and you just stayed in there and slept. If you were lucky then someone might have left a book in there to read from a boy that was in there before you. ! can remember a tray coming round at six o'clock with food. I can't remember breakfast time but I think that I had toast or cereal and for lunch something like macaroni cheese on toast for lunch. 19. On these occasions which were quite a few times I can remember being held in the detention rooms all over the weekend from Friday and you would come out on either a Sunday evening or Monday morning.

20. When I was put in there I would be 'cheesed off' and thought 'oh not this again' but you put up with it and get on with it because there was nothing else that you could do as it was part of the life in there. You couldn't say that you didn't want to go in there because they would just end up putting you in there anyway

Signature"

342

Signature witnessed by:

D ROBINSON

2010/11

5

987 342

Statement of

Form MGI I(T) Page 6 of 8

21, I can remember when I was seven or eight years old that the senior girls seemed to be put in charge of us. For some reason it was always

who was 15 or 16 at the time and ifI

did something wrong then some of the senior girls made me get into her bed and lie there with her until I was told to get out again, This happened on four or five occasions, i was petrified when this happened and I used to lay there and nothing happened and I did not move, I was mortified that this happened and thinking about this now there would be no member of staff around at the time. I don't know how she felt about this at the time. At some stage the girls would then come to you and tell you to get out and go back to your own bed which I did. This also happened to other boys who were made to get into other giris beds. 22. Williams used to give you a clout every now and again and he was quite violent. He would

deliberately shoulder barge you and knock you up against a wall and things like that and knock you flying. TEat happened loads of times no matter where you were he would do it. He did this loads of times to me but it wasn't just to me he was doing it to everybody. 23. I never complained to any one about this because there was no one to complain to you just accepted it. I did want to c'omplain about the treatment but I was too scared because you didn't know what would happerÿ to you. Other people did complain and they were taken,away and I thought they might be caned. I was scared that if I did then I would be caned but I never was as it was just the fear of it. 24. There was one occasion when the senior boys and I cannot remember who it was butt we had

been told by

123

that WILLIAMS had been touching her up and been touching her

breasts. She had confided in the senior boys about what had been going on and she said that she did not know who to turn to. We had then asked

he did and we told him what had been going on.

491

to come up to the dormitory and eventually 491

said not to be so stupid and that it did

not haopen_ and s_he hÿct made it ÿlp nnd tent ÿrÿ fhÿ 1ÿ- *hoÿ- !-, ...... +ÿA +ÿ. 1-. .... ÿe;÷ ÿ_a :.c'u_ ÿ ..... _1 LJ_zcÿ.,ÿ .tz,.ÿ VVCLZ.tL,,.,,,.X LU il',.,Oÿl. U± IL CtllU II Iiÿ lllStl.[(.[

anymore that we would be for the high jump and we could end up making WILLIAMS lose his job if we said anything. 25. I used to wet the bed and as a result I used to have to go to the shower and I always seemed to be late and the last in the shower. I would be naked and WILLIAMS used to get a towel and wet the

end of it and would flick me with the end of it whilst I was in the shower. This used to hurt and I Signature:

342

Signature witnessed by:

D ROBINSON

2010/11

6

988 342

Statement of

Form MG i 1 (T) Page 7 of 8

would get red 'whelt' marks and lumps over my back, legs, arms and backside where I was hit so hard. I was never hit in the testicles because you would move fast and get out of the bathroom. I was 13 or 14 years old when this happened. This also used to happen to other boys who had also 491

wet the bed. This was done to them by WILLIAMS but I saw was off. There was also some man called

do it to us if WILLIAMS

but I am not sure of his name who was member

of staff who also used to do it to us and other members of staff also used to do it but I can't remember their names. They used to do it with a wet towel because it hurt more.

26. Us boys used to flick each other with dry towels but this was in fun. The staff did it to get us 195

out of the showers quick. The other boys that I saw this happening to were and 371

27. I have been asked by DC ROBINSON if I know the name of not. I do know the names of

the names o

126

nd he was in the same group as

184

nd

348

memory of anything happening to any of these people with towels. I remember 188

nd

91 & 493

nd

and I do . I know

but I have no 169

and

other brothers and they were possibly flicked with the towels. There was

ut I would only see

91 n the dining room because

he was older, I don't remember anything happening to them. 28. I saw in the news that some one had said that TILBROOK had been seen carrying a pillow when he used to walk around the dormitories and that he used the pillow to muffle the girls. I used

to see TILBROOK walking around with a pillow on a number of occasions but I thought that he had just picked it up and I never saw him 'muffling the girls' or being horrible to any body. Looldng back on it now I do think that this was odd. 29. I used to wet the bed but I do not know why I did this and I also used to 'pound' the pillow with my head when I was asleep and I also found out that my brother

also used to do the same.

The night nurse used to wake me up and take me down to where

was sleeping and used to

show me that this was what but she had

hair and a

did and also what I did. I can't remember the night nurse's name dog. Me and

also used to sit there and rock back

and forward and I didn't realise that I was doing it. I don't know why we did this but [ assumed that

Signature:

342

Signature witnessed by:

D ROBINSON

2010/11

7

989 342

Statement of:

Form b!iO i 1 (T) Page 8 of 8

it was a f'anlily trait, I still pound the pillow with my head when I am asleep especially when I am stressed,

30.

is now dead and his wife

contacted me and my wife to say that

that he had been sexually abused whilst at Haut de la Garenne. I have no knowledge of this and 1 am sure that

would have told me if this was the case. I was never sexually abused whilst at

the home.

31. When I look back at it now yes I was physically abused and I cannot remember other incidents of assaults. I do have fond memories of the home but I have blocked out all the bad bits and kept the memories of the good bits. There was always things happening between the staff and other people in the home but you didn't get involved as it wasn't happening to you. This statement was produced by me from the audio tape and notes taken during the intelwiew of 342

at occurred between 10:28 and 11:48 hours on the 10th May 2008 that

occurred at his home address, Present was his wife and DC CAMERON. Later that same day

myself and DC CAMERON attended his home address and in the presence of his wife the statement was read over to him and he then read and sig-ned it in my presence

Signature:

342

Signature witnessed by:

D ROBINSON

2010/11

8

11085

342

' . CASE HISTORY 342

NAME : DATE OF BIRTP. :

RELIGION:

-

VI HERE CHRISTENED:

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de lo GQrenne .

1

705 Case Ref:

Operation Rectangle

Signatures

Haute De La Garenne.

Exhibit No. No. of pages

24 Twenty four.

Tape Reference No: BC/

TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH 169

on Thursday 6th December 2007.

BC. Civilian Officer: 602 Brian Carter LL. Detective Constable 678 Lynn Lang 169

BC

It' s Thursday the sixth of December two thousand and seven, and we're here in 169 with and it's now five to ten in the morning. We started recording a witness statement yesterday. Dueto Iack of time we were unable [break in recordingl yesterday. I've subsequently prepared the second paÿ of the statement

with photographs that you gave me yesterday. Are you quite happy with that? 169

Hm-hin.

BC

I will take those photographs back, but you will have them returned to you...

169

That's okay, yeah.

BC

...okay, in due course. Just going over the first statement very quickly from yesterday.

Cfin you just tell me what effect living in the home has had on you, throughout the rest of your life and through your time in the home? 169

Urn. Wel! basically I don't know how to, to carry on a proper relationship with a man

and now I'm fight-, fighting, with my second marriage I'm fighting to, to hold that together.

. Yeah I, I can't really explain that, Brian,

you know, just.

BC 169

BC

169

BC 169

Okay, not a problem, it's, don't feel uncomfortable... Yeah. Okay, uh-huh.

• ..with the tape, because we are just going to take the bits that are appropriate out of the transcripts basically, okay. We, you, we didn't cover it in the statement again yesterday, you said that your, you tarted to geah.

And can you just explain the reason behind that? • I, I suppose it was probably because of the situation up af the home, yeah, because my belief is, is that we shouldn't have ever been put up there anyway, because it was in brackets supposed to be for children that were naughty, yeah? And, and that, as we

1

1706

169 Page 2-.

rence No: B

all got split up, you know, that's what did it, I think. And that, we were told we were oniy going to be at the home a year and that, you know. And the, it just went past, one year, two years, three years.

BC

169

Okay. And how would, over all would you describe the home? Your, your, looking back now on it, how, how do you feel about the home itself and what you've you went through and you explained yesterday. Well I hated it. I hated it. You know- and, when I had boyfriends, when I was. at school and they used to want to come pick me up I, I would say no, because my parents, I had to, I always lied about where I lived, you know, because, yeah, it was

just embarrassing to be living there. And when the boyfriends found out that I was living at the home then they didn't want anything to, to do with me any more, you know, so yeah.

BC 169

BC 169

Okay. You, you mentioned a

esterday in your statement.

Hm-hm, yeah.

Could you just explain what he used to do it to?

sed to do and what, and which boys that

Well when I first got in the, the group, into the senior group, I supposed I'd been in the home now about six months and I'd started in intermediates, and then when I finished primary school I, and just before I started secondary school, I went up to seniors an were the of the group. And from the very first week that I Was in the group the boys were, were being hit and beaten by

him and he used to have a lighter in his pocket that he always used to have. And I mean if he didn't have that in his pocket then he used to pick up a billiard ball and 41

throw it. And

the, he abused

342

41

.

BC 169

BC

342

.

Right, okay.

169

. And um,

121

and

, there, there's a, a whole crowd of boys.

BC

Okay. Can you just explain what the abuse was?

169

Well it' s, if they looked a little bit urn, if they gave a smirk then he would ask, why are you doing that? And then they would give a stupid answer. And then they'd get one, you know, so.

BC 169

BC

And when you say get one, what do you mean by it, what - ? Hand or fist or, or pushed into the wall and held up against and then hit, you know. Yes, I mean, it, it's not, it's on tape so...

2

1707

169

Page 3

Tape Reference No:

169

BC 169 BC 169

BC 169

BC

Yeah. ...you're, you're throwing like a, a punch, yeah, yeah?

Yeah, a punch, yeah. That's fine, that's brilliant. Hm-hm.

And how regularly would he do this? Couple of evenings in the week before we were waiting to go down to supper, yeah. In relation to -

169

Two or three, two or three times a week it would happen.

BC

Okay. And throwing, you say he had a lighter, did he throw that lighter?

169

BC 169

Yeah, he threw it.

And did he, did he, where about would it generally land? On the urn, I can't think in,

On the torso...

BC Yeah. Torso, the chest area there? 169

BC 169

...yeah of, yeah. Chest area.

Okay. And the golf, theYes, the same.

BC

Not the golf ball, the snooker ball.

169

Snooker ball on the chest area as well.

BC

And you describe-

169

Or if the, if the boy had turned his back then it would hit him in the back, you knowl

BC Okay. 169

But there were, there was one in particular,

41

he, he was always, always

getting picked on and he would always put his hands up to his head to protect it.

BC

And how re-, you know, you mentioned punched and slapped, I think you said

slapped as well, I mean how long would he do this for? Would it be one slap, two slaps, or would it be like -

3

342 342

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oerta1n17 beeD aat to N81be4

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.... ......................................... . ,......... ., ...... ~

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151

Copies for

Mr. Til brook

.....-::--r be>-,~ ~

A11 co~ni6tions to

Tolophone: CENTRAL ~1/5

.dd~ d IO tho CHt!:.DREN'S OFFICER.

..

f,. . } 1,.

~

~ -

STATES

OF

EDUCAT I ON C HILDREN'S SECTlON

JERSEY

COMM I TTEE

Children's Office r

7..

f(~ .qbco I

~{ljs

Miss P. L. Thornto n.

JERSEY.

O..r Rei.

Unfortunately there have been some

dif'f'ioultie~

/ I~

with

tmd I had to re-admit him to Baut de la

at

Gorenne in the early hours of SUn.da1 monling the 28th. enoloee Admiaeion Fom3 and would be return 1 t to no. ma.intoncnce

grat~ful

Jenua.rr~

I

1£ you would sign one and

is uorki.n& and ShoUld be ablo to J183 his tull

at Haut de la

Gs:tenne.

I shall nov have t o consider what further steps to

t ake

~or

the

oa:rG ~

Oh:lldren 's Offi.cer.

J . Sherry, Bsq.,

eoreta:ry,

t. Belier Vel.tare Department, rwn &ll, Jersey.

63

Dote

[jl.l.o

if he had at any time told anyone that a "Queer", stressing that i t Yas terribly important that he to he truth in thia respect as I intended ta1king with nd wanted to know exactly what had happened. denied emphatically saying this or anythLng like it to anyone . Before leaving, I again asked if at any time had made i1npropor suggestions to him and he assured me that he had not . Cont'd •••••• • ••

57

Dote

:1.. 2 . 6ts

I then saw and ~ediately pointed out to him extrem&y foolish he had been to sleep in the same bed aa . I made it clear to him that I disapproved of this but i t was quite obv1oua to ae that he himself had seen nothing wrong in i t and bad not realized the situation in which he might place himaolf .

~~

I told him quite directly of the allegation.& that had made and hie first reaction to this ~as that he ~ould consult hie Solicitor , but after some d1scussion, he agreed with me that this wo uld eerve no useful purpose . Having discussed the situation completely and freely with I am s a tisfied that the s l eeping arrangemunta ~ere made quite innocently and that n oth ing intentional happened . I am perfectly

satisfi~d

to allow

342

to remain at

Informed by Mr. Tilbrook that had been allowed to go out last ~aturday evening and arrived home ve~y late having been drinking. Mr . Ti1brook had establish~d from that he had obtained and consumed alcoho 1 a t ~pring£ield and I agreed ~ith Mr . Tilbrook that we should write to the Constable of St. He1ier bringing this to his notice . Le1:ter to Constable o£ St.He1ier :in.Lurming him o£ above .

v· .. 58

1002 126

Statement

Form MG 11 (T) Page 1 of 11

STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Witness Statement

Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jersey) Law 1988

126

Statement of:

Age if under 20: OVER 18 (if over 20 insert 'over 20')

Occupation:

This statement (consisting of 7 page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true. 126

Signature:

ne

Date:

08/05/2008

Tick if witness evidence is visually recorded D (supply witness details on rear)

In the case of witnesses who produce exhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the witness statement MUST contain the following endorsement:f

"I am employed as ...... at ....... As such, part Of my responsibilities includes making witness statements on behalf of ........ I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of ....... These records may be either paper

based or computer based, which havebeen subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to ........ and were compiled, at every stage by

staff members, acting Under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied."

Signature:

126

I

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

1

1003 126

Statement o

Date:

Form MG 11 (T) Page 2 of 11

Signed

Will state: 1

I am the above named person and I am making this statement of my own free will. During

this statement I will describe certain events that happened to me whilst I was a resident at the Haut de La Garenne children's home in Jersey between 1957 and December 1965. I have not given any names or identified any places that are not purely within my own knowledge. The police haven't forced me to say anything I don't want to say ordid not know before the Police spoke to me. 2

I first went into the Haut de La Garenne children's home at the age of 7 years of age in

1957.I had previously asked for my personal file from the Jersey Archives and all I had back from them was one piece of paper that did not really tell me a lot about my days at the home. 3

From what I have gathered, I went into the home because I stole money out of my mums

purse and because of this I• was sent to the home. I had not been in trouble with the Police before and my recollection is that the Police dumped me at the home and I was placed into a dormitory with 30 to 40 other kids. I do not know if there was any other reason for me being in that home.

4

I know that I was joined later by

195

nd

..............

nd I believe that this was in the 1960's. The reason for this was because my mother became ill and so they were placed there and this was after I was placed in there. When my mother got better then

195

were taken out again but then

was placed back into the home. I have t

195

ho are J

got into trouble and and as far as I

know they never went into Haut de la Garenne and when I used to go back home to visit,

did not know Who I was and thought I was just a visitor. 5

When I went into the home I would describe myself as a normal 7 year old and would defy

your parents that sort of thing. But when you are put in the home you learnt not to be defiant and even at that age I realised that if you stepped out of line then you soon got 'a belting'.

Signature:

126

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

2

1004 126

Statement of

6

Form MG 1 I(T) Page 3 of 11

When I went to 'the home in !957, a Mr MAGGS was the superintendent incharge ofthe

home and directly under him was a Mr MALLINSON, who ended up malTying was there most of the time that I was. There was a M

nd he

who was also there when I first

arrived and he left after a couple of years. At some stage, but I don't know when, but a Mr TILBROOK took over from Mr MAGGS, as the superintendent, when I was aged about 13-14 years old,

491

arrived to start work.

7 When I first arrived at the home I was placed into the Junior group and this was situated on

the left hand side of the wing as you are looking at the front of the building and later when the girls I

....

moved inthey took over this dormitory.

up by the junior dormitory and I

remember that when I first arrived there and at the age of 7 years, he used to come into the junior dormitory and take me by the hand. At the age of 7 years I had not got a 'fucking clue' as to what was happening. He would then lead me to his room and took my pyjamas off and I would be naked.

He then used to 'play with me' and by this I mean that he used to take my penis with his hands and he used to masturbate me. He also used to get me 'ÿco play with him' and by this I mean he used to get me to masturbate his penis. I can say that his penis was hard and that I used to see stuff coming out of his penis. I later realised that he was ejaculating. 8 I cannot remember him ever saying anything to me as he was doing this and this went on for about a month to six weeks. This happened on a number of occasions and it was always at night. I can say thatn0 0ther sexual assaults occurred such as anal or oral sex and he did not ask for this to

happen. I did complain at the time to MALLINSON and I think that he hit me and told me not to tell lies. As a result of this I did not mention the abuse to any one else. However shortly after telling

MALLINSON, the abuse by

stopped but I don't know if this was connected but I think it

was because I had said something. [

9

..

I did not ask him to stop, because at the age of 7 years you don't understand do you. I do not

know ifany other of the boys in the dormitory saw him coming in and taking me out of the room and if they did they kept quiet about it. I never told any of the other boys what was going on. I don't knOW if any other boys were being taken from their beds in a similar manner and were abused. 10 I was also s_exually abused by a man called

264

and the circumstances of this

are that he was not a member of staff as I far as I am aware. He and his wife used to visit the home Signature:

126

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

3

1005 126

Statement

Form MG 11 (T) Page 4 of 11

and then after a period of time he used to visit on his own. He would visit about once a week and this was mainly on the weekends and the purpose of this visit was to take the boys out. The reason 264

that I believe that

mainly visited on the weekend because we were at school during the

week. I don't know why he was allowed to take the children out and I am assuming that he must have had authority to take the boys out and this could only have come from TILBROOK. I don't

know if he was particularly friendly with any member of staff but if he was then it was kept out of sight. He would take no more than three children out at any one time to my knowledge and normally it appeared to be two children at a time. "i"

!1

-

I can say that I have seen him in a

occasion that he was

:

and that he and his wife had said on an

and worked fo

. His wife used to

say on a few occasions that he had gone away and I assumed that was in the course of his work. 12 He used to drive a silver c

hat could have been

in colour but it was

in good condition. When I had been in the car, in relation to the event I am going to describe, I

thought that it was an automatic and right hand drive. It did not have any seatbelts and the date of the incident I believe was 1964 and you did not have to wear seatbelts in those days. I have been asked to describe the inside of the car and I am unable to remember this but it may have had a radio in it. He used to turn up in this car at the home.

13 I was told that he had a speedboat that he kept at Gorey Harbour and he used to take the boys out in it. I never went out in it because I did not trust him. I cannot give you any more details about this boat.

14

His family used to own th 264

go over there wit over there was becaus

338

nd I used to in his car with

338

The reason that we went

Used to keep pigeons at the home and there was a pigeon loft at the

and we used to go over there and look after it. There was always the two of us in the car with him on these occasions.

15 There was one occasion and I remember that it was a Friday, because I had been to the playing fields and-t was waiting at a bus stop for a bus to go to Gorey.

264

came past

in his car and picked me up. He was in the driver's seat and I was in the front passenger seat and we

Signature:

126

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

4

1006 126

Statement of

Form MG l l (T) Page 5 of ! 1

hadn't gone far. Then he leant over and placed his hand between my legs and I felt his hand touch my testicles over my clothes. There was no way that this was an accident as the car was automatic so he wasn't changing gear and there was no seatbelt to fasten and I then punched him on the jaw and got out of the car. Theabuse only happened on this one occasion

16 That was the last time that I got into his car and it was the only time that I got into the car when there was no other child with me. I never told any one about this because there was no point and there was no one to tell and you kept things to yourself.

17

After I left Haut de La Garenne at the age of 15 and a half years, I joined the army and this

would have been in 1966 and I was discharged in 1967 at the age of 17 years. I then returned to Jersey and I started work with a

. One of the houses in

which we cleaned the windows was in

264

and it turned out to be

house.

There was his wife and some friends there at the time and I've never known a bloke try and get 264 someone into a business so quickly in my life. said to me that he would set me up

in

further and I did not take him up on his offer. My belief is that he was attempting to buy my silence because of what he had done to me in the car.

18

264

I do not know if any of the other boys were also sexually abused by

as

you kept things to yourself. 195

19 I have since spoken to 195

was done for

nd I can say that about 5 years ago I spoke to him just after he had been

. The circumstances of this as I was told by 264

in the street in Jersey and although he recognise 195

recognis

20

195

195

My belief is that

id that he had tried to

264

were that he had met 264

264 195

which was why he

ver him abusing

he never actually told me the details. My mother told me at some stage that 264

a tape and that he was

did go out with

264

did not

195

195

but

. I believe tha

195

n his boat but I don't know what happened.

126 Signature:

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/1i

5

1007 126

Statement o

21

Form MG 11 (T) Page 6 of 11

i was never sexually abused by any other member of staff at Haut de La Garenne, although I 491

did suffer physical and mental abuse at the hands of another member of staff, who was

22 The first time that I met G

491

338

the home. I was with

s when he and his wife went to an interview for a job at nd we were playing football in the playroom and he

said to kick the ball to him so we did and the ball hit 491

n between the legs. When

ot the job then he took every opportunity to be abusive to us at every chance that he got. 491

23.

491

me to Haut de la Garenne when I was aged 13 to 14 years and I had moved from

the junior group into the senior groupand I stayed there until I left the home.

491

used to live

in a flat upstairs from the senior group dormitory. At night sometime between 10 and 11 o'clock when some of the boys, including me' used to talk and if

491

heard any noise then he would

come downstairs and into our dormitory. He would make us get out of bed first and there were about 20 beds in there. He would then tip up every one of the beds and the mattress and bedclothes would go everywhere. He would then force us to make the beds and if he wasn't happy xvith this

then he would tip the beds up again and force us to make the beds again and he could do this up to three times a night. This would happen at least once a week. This happened to me on a number of occasions and I also witnessed it happening to other children in the same dormitory.

24

If we still.did not do it properly then we would be forced to wire 9.7ool and polish the 491

corridor. We had to do this until

ould come back. Sometimes he would notcome back

until the morning and we would be left there all night. If another member of staff came and told us to go to bed then we knew that he would make our lives hell in the morning. This happened to me on a number of occasions and I also witnessed it happening to other children in the same dormitory and this happened about two or three times a week.

25

491

If G

ought that we were swearing then he would ask us what we said and if he

wasn't happy with the answer then he used to make us stand in the downstairs toilet all day. This would happen at least once a week or once a fortnight it depended. This happened to me on a number Of occasions and I also witnessed it happening to other children in the same dormitory.

25a

491

sed to give us 'backhanders' with his hand on the back of our heads and this would

hurt but I was not able to say if it left any marks. I believe that he did this because he felt like it or 126 Signature:

e

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

6

1008 126

Statement

things hadn't gone his way. If

Form MG 11 (T) Page 7 of 11 491

had an argument with his wife then the treatment would be

even worse. He also used to throw things at you, such as ash trays, books, snooker balls, slippers or what ever was to hand. These would hurt and some times these would leave lumps and bruises and depending on whether you were walking to him or away from him then it would depend where you would be hit on your body, your back on your chest, legs and shoulders or on the head if he caught you properly This used to mainly happen in the TV room as this was where the snooker table and balls were kept and other children who were in there would see what was going on. This happened to me on a number of occasions and I also witnessed it happeningto other children from the same dormitory. But we never said anything as you had to go through TILBROOK first as he was the boss and there was no point.

26 I went to TILBROOK on three or four occasions and complained about my treatment by 491

nd all he said was to go away but not in those words. So I knew that there was no point

in reporting anything as it was a waste of time so I stopped. 27.

491

ed to verbally abuse me and would say things to me like 'French bastard' and

'Your mum's a whore' . .

28 G

491

o used to abuse us when we were in theshowers. If he had a bad day then he

would get a damp towel'and 'whack' you with it. The reason he used a damp towel was because it hurt more than a dry towel and by 'whack' I mean that he used to flick you with the end of the towel all over. your body. This would be all over the body and on your legs, backside, the top of your body and a couple of times I was hit in the testicles. This hurt and would leave 'welt' marks and redness. This happened to me on a number of occasions and I also witnessed ithappening to other children in the same dormitory. I saw injuries on other boys but we never reported it. This used to make me 'pissed off and angry and you wanted to hurt him but if you did you would just be.in more deep trouble,

29 All the boys spoke about what they would like to do to

491

nd I said that I wanted to

.....

knife him and the other boys had the same opinion. I would have done so if I thought that I could have got away with it. There were a lot of big boys in the senior group who wanted to get him,

however they never did. After I left the home I never saw

126 Signature: 2010/11

491

again but if I did have then I

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

...............

7

1009

126

Statement

Form MG l 1 (T) Page 8 of 11

would have stabbed him. I thiN< that one of his biggest fears was to bump into one of us in the street once we had left the home. 30 I felt very angry about the way that I was being treated and I left as soon as I could. 491

said that the only way to get out was to join the army and so I did but I didn't want to join

but I had to in order to get away from the home: I left the home at the age of 15 and a half years and joined the army as a boy soldier. However I wanted to get out so I broke into a house to get caught

but I was not caught. A friend of mine had a bike and I bought it from him and it turned out that it was stolen and then I got chucked out of the army. However I joined back up in 1971 and stayed in the Army for 9 years. 31 At some stage when I was in the army the first time, I received a call from my mother to say 493

that a friend of mine called

ad hung himself. That my mother said that it

was due to an impending court case and his family would not go to Court to support him but I don't think that this was the case. I have felt very guilty over the years that I was not there to 'protect him'.

I believe that he was being abused in the home and that was why he did it however I had not been told this or witnessed this because 'they were too crafty' but this is my belief. I could not say who was abusing him as the staffjust came and Went soyou couldn't keep track of them. The staff who stayed there were MAL

491

N and GETLIFF ....

32 I used to go to a number of schools in Jersey and on occasions I used to receive the cane. This was as a punishment for something that I had done. I usually received three canes on each hand and you accepted this. However in the Haut de La Garenne home, you would receive six canes on each hand andthen six on the buttocks. The punishment was meted out by TILBROOK and whoever sent you up there for the punishment which would also be present when you were caned

and this would either b

491

or MALLINSON. However if TILBROOK was away then the

punishments were given to MALLINSON or

491

o carry out. The punishments were done in

such a way that I believe that they enjoyed it and it was different from the punishment that you got at school. Looking back on this form Of punishment Icould have killed him and he doesn't know how close he came to getting killed. It was a pleasure to him to cane a child. 33 TILBROOK was a 'sadistic bastard' and he didn't just pick on anyone he picked on everyone. It was his role to dish out the punishment and the code of punishment at Haut de La Garenne 126 Signature:

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

8

1010 126

Statement o

Form MG 1 I(T) Page 9 of 11

seemed to be to 'beat the crap out of you'. if they dished out punishment like that nowadays then you would be locked up for it. I would say that we were treated like 'shit' at the home and everything was done the way they wanted it done, you couldn't do anything that you wanted to do. By 'they' I mean the staff that worked there. 34 I was aware that there were detention rooms but I was never put in them I thiN( that he got his pleasure out of physical and mental abuse. I never went into the rooms and I did not want to go in there and this was based on a feeling of fear. There were two brothers who were 62

and

who were both a bit backward and I know they were placed in there although I do not

know the circumstances of this or what happened to them once they were in there and I didn't ask them. It was sufficient to know that I did not want to go in there as I thought that I wouldn't get out. 35

I know that there has been a lot of media interest in the investigation at Haut de la Garenne

but I have tried not to watch it. My mother was going to send me newspaper clippings about it but I

said that I did not want her to. I have been asked by DC ROBINSON about the cellars at the home and I have not seen much about them on the news. I don't know where they came from as I never went into them and I never saw the cells that they are on about, but we used to play under the floorboards. The room was on the left hand side wing as you are looking at the front of the house and under the play area and the floorboards had been cut into a square and could be lifted up, but I don't know who cut them. The only reason that you would cut the floorboards like that are as an inspection hatch. There were no steps or light down under these floorboards and we used to use torches to see down there. We used to play down there and to see what we could find which was mainly oldnewsPapers, magazines, old tins and bottles that has been lying around for years. I never left anything down there although I don't know if the others did. There was always graffiti around

the building and you got into trouble if you got caught writing graffiti. I don't know if there was any graffiti in the area under the floorboards but I certainly did not write any. I do not know any body calle

301

This area under the floorboards was the width of the wing. If you got caught down

there by the staff then you were dragged out and you were up for a 'hiding'. It was a game between them and us and we always used to come up covered as 'black as the ace of spades'.

36 In my dormitory all I can remember was that there was a

Signature:

126

..

284, 338, 62, 186, 342, 493

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

9

1011 126

Statement of

Form MG 11 (T) Page 10 of 11

. I am able to say that I witnessed abuse against all of these boys at some time or another whilst we were at the home. This abuse included having the beds tipped up and made to make the bed again, having to clean the stairs with wire wool and buffing them, having to stay up for long periods of time to do this. We were also made to stand in the toilet for long periods of time. Being

hit and hurt by the wet towels and being hit on the back of the head with the hand and hit with snooker balls, books, ashtrays, slippers etc. The person responsible for all this wa

491

. Also I

am aware that although I did not see the canings I saw the marks that the canings had left on the other boys and they saw mine. I never received any medical treatment for my injuries to my knowledge but you tended to keep the bruises to yourself. The person mainly responsible for the

canings was TILBROOK, although if he wasaway then

491

or MALLINSON used to do it. I

would like to add that I believe that every one of the boys that I have listed above may also have 264

been taken out b

but I am unable to say if he abused them or not.

37 I am one hundred per cent sure as to the identity of

491

s being the person who

physically and verbally abused me. I am also sure as to the identity of sexually assaulted me. I am also sure as to the identity o

264

who

s being the person who

sexually assaulted me even though I was 7 years of age at the time. I am willing to support a police 491 prosecution against my abusers and I want to be in court whe is there, I shall make a

point of being there 38 My experience at Haut de la Garerme has affected how I deal with my own children. They may have got a slap on the leg but being Sent to bed and not being allowed to watch television had

more effect. I would not discipline my children in the way that I was disciplined because the treatment at Haut de la Garenne was cruel and barbaric. The impact of my time at Haut de la Garenne has made me very distant from people and although I have acquaintances I only have three what I call close friends. The experience of this.place is always there and you try and put it to the back of your mind and get on with you life and I feel that there was never anyone there to give me any help.

Hand written by David Robinson

Signature:

126

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

10

1012 126

Statement o

Form MG 11 (T) Page 11 of 11

This statement was produced by me during an interview that occurred between 0952 and 1132hrs

on the 7th May 2008 from

126

t his home address. Present throughout was DC

CAMERON between 0915 and 0950 on the 8th May 2008 at the home address

126

We read the statement over to him, he declined to read the statement but he signed it in our presence. David Robinson

Signature:

126

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

11

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195 220

2

1010 126

Statement o

Form MG 1 I(T) Page 9 of 11

seemed to be to 'beat the crap out of you'. if they dished out punishment like that nowadays then you would be locked up for it. I would say that we were treated like 'shit' at the home and everything was done the way they wanted it done, you couldn't do anything that you wanted to do. By 'they' I mean the staff that worked there. 34 I was aware that there were detention rooms but I was never put in them I thiN( that he got his pleasure out of physical and mental abuse. I never went into the rooms and I did not want to go in there and this was based on a feeling of fear. There were two brothers who were 62

and

who were both a bit backward and I know they were placed in there although I do not

know the circumstances of this or what happened to them once they were in there and I didn't ask them. It was sufficient to know that I did not want to go in there as I thought that I wouldn't get out. 35

I know that there has been a lot of media interest in the investigation at Haut de la Garenne

but I have tried not to watch it. My mother was going to send me newspaper clippings about it but I

said that I did not want her to. I have been asked by DC ROBINSON about the cellars at the home and I have not seen much about them on the news. I don't know where they came from as I never went into them and I never saw the cells that they are on about, but we used to play under the floorboards. The room was on the left hand side wing as you are looking at the front of the house and under the play area and the floorboards had been cut into a square and could be lifted up, but I don't know who cut them. The only reason that you would cut the floorboards like that are as an inspection hatch. There were no steps or light down under these floorboards and we used to use torches to see down there. We used to play down there and to see what we could find which was mainly oldnewsPapers, magazines, old tins and bottles that has been lying around for years. I never left anything down there although I don't know if the others did. There was always graffiti around

the building and you got into trouble if you got caught writing graffiti. I don't know if there was any graffiti in the area under the floorboards but I certainly did not write any. I do not know any body calle

301

This area under the floorboards was the width of the wing. If you got caught down

there by the staff then you were dragged out and you were up for a 'hiding'. It was a game between them and us and we always used to come up covered as 'black as the ace of spades'.

36 In my dormitory all I can remember was that there was a

Signature:

126

..

284, 338, 62, 186, 342, 493

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

9

1011 126

Statement of

Form MG 11 (T) Page 10 of 11

. I am able to say that I witnessed abuse against all of these boys at some time or another whilst we were at the home. This abuse included having the beds tipped up and made to make the bed again, having to clean the stairs with wire wool and buffing them, having to stay up for long periods of time to do this. We were also made to stand in the toilet for long periods of time. Being

hit and hurt by the wet towels and being hit on the back of the head with the hand and hit with snooker balls, books, ashtrays, slippers etc. The person responsible for all this wa

491

. Also I

am aware that although I did not see the canings I saw the marks that the canings had left on the other boys and they saw mine. I never received any medical treatment for my injuries to my knowledge but you tended to keep the bruises to yourself. The person mainly responsible for the

canings was TILBROOK, although if he wasaway then

491

or MALLINSON used to do it. I

would like to add that I believe that every one of the boys that I have listed above may also have 264

been taken out b

but I am unable to say if he abused them or not.

37 I am one hundred per cent sure as to the identity of

491

s being the person who

physically and verbally abused me. I am also sure as to the identity of sexually assaulted me. I am also sure as to the identity o

264

who

s being the person who

sexually assaulted me even though I was 7 years of age at the time. I am willing to support a police 491 prosecution against my abusers and I want to be in court whe is there, I shall make a

point of being there 38 My experience at Haut de la Garerme has affected how I deal with my own children. They may have got a slap on the leg but being Sent to bed and not being allowed to watch television had

more effect. I would not discipline my children in the way that I was disciplined because the treatment at Haut de la Garenne was cruel and barbaric. The impact of my time at Haut de la Garenne has made me very distant from people and although I have acquaintances I only have three what I call close friends. The experience of this.place is always there and you try and put it to the back of your mind and get on with you life and I feel that there was never anyone there to give me any help.

Hand written by David Robinson

Signature:

126

Signature witnessed by:

David Robinson

2010/11

10

RESTRICTED

233

Statement of:

5750 Form MG 11 (T)

Page 1 of7 STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Witness Statement Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jersey) Law 19 88

233

Statement of:

Age if under 20: OVER 18 (if over 20 inse1i 'over 20')

Occupation:

This statement (consisting of 6 page( s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true. 233

Signature:

..J

Tick if witness evidence is visually recorded

o110712oo8

Date:

D

r"

I

(supply witness details on rear)

In the case of witnesses who produce exhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the witness statement MUST contain the following endorsement:"I am employed as ...... at ....... As such, part of my responsibilities includes making witness statements on behalf of ........ I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of ....... These records may be either paper based or computer based, which have been subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Critninal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to ........ and were compiled, at every stage by staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied."

Signature:

233

Signature witnessed by:

C A CAMERON DC3872

2010111

RESTRICTED 1

233

Statement of

RESTRICTED

5751

J

Form MG 11 (T)

Page 2 of7 Date:

Signed

Will state: I am making this statement of my own free will. During this statement I will describe my time whilst living at Haut De La Garenne Jersey from 1962 until1964. I have not given any names or identified any places that are not purely within my own knowledge. The Police have not forced me to say anything I do not want to say or did not know before the Police spoke with me. 2

233

I am

1949 in Jersey. On the

and I was born on

1962,

Out of all of them my father survived

3

We saw an ambulance come home in the afternoon and brought my father back. In 1962, it

was a different era, it was explained to us that our family had

I

. My father stayed with us for

a while, he used to drink quite a lot as well and he was given quite a lot of money in those days through quite a lot of people, which he drunk most of it away. 4

My father decided to go and live in England and take my

sisters, who were living at home

at the time. The rest of us he put in Haut De La Garenne and we never heard from him again. That was the last we heard of him. I was going on 12 years old. 5

Some of my family I never knew, because some of my family who were older than me were

adopted. It was only when I went in to Haut De La Garenne, that I found that I actually had a in there called 6

who was 19 years old,

left to join the

.

:J

The members of my family that went in to Haut De La Garenne were myself, 341

7

was adopted at 18 months old and he did not ever live

at Haut De La Garenne. Signature:

233

Signature witnessed by:

C A CAMERON DC3872

2010/11

RESTRICTED 2

233

Statement of

RESTRICTED

5752 Form MG ll(T)

Page 3 of 7 8

passed away in 2003 in

My brother

I think he died in

Bospital.

We brought his ashes back to Jersey, otherwise he was on his own. I had him buried with my mother over here. 9

Haut De La Garenne was a massive place that for us coming from a house was something that

we had never seen before in our life. It was divided into Juniors, Intermediates and Seniors. I was in the Intermediates with my brother 10

and the others were in the Juniors.

There were two dormitories, Junior and Intermediates with a door in between. There were

about 25-30 beds in each dormitory. 11

The staff that I can remember at the time that I was there are: Mr TILBROOK, he was in

charge of the whole place, he was known as the Head. I cannot say what the order of staff in seniority was as I cannot remember now, I can just remember that

491

the Juniors. I did not know first names of the

the Intermediates and

staff as we would always refer to them as Mr, Mrs or Miss or Sir etc. I cannot recall any other staff, it is only these three that stick in my mind. 12

Mr TILBROOK sticks in my mind because he would enjoy giving you a good caning if you

got into trouble, which I had quite a few. If you got caught for instance at night time messing about 491

then

would then tell you that you had to go and see Mr TILBROOK because you had

been breaking the rules. This could be throwing stuff around the dormitory, being late back from school. We used to walk to school and you had to be back by a certain time, if you didn't get back by a certain time you would get the cane for that. I used to be in the church choir at Gorey, many of us would go to Choir just to get away from Haut De la Garenne. If you didn't get back on time from Choir you would get the cane for that. You would be told that you were what they called wicked in them days. Nine times out of ten you would get the cane from Mr TILBROOK. If say you were caught messing around at night and the other boy said that, no it wasn't him but you, that statied it then straight away and you would get the cane. This happened to me quite a few times. 13

It was always Mr TILBROOK that gave me the cane, this would always be in his office and he

would be alone. Sometimes you would be caned on your hands, sometimes on your backside. I was caned on both, it was not very nice and I was frightened. I was always caned over my clothing. You Signature:

233

Signature witnessed by:

C A CAMERON DC3872

2010111

RESTRICTED 3

RESTRICTED

233

Statement of:

5753 Form MG ll(T)

Page 4 of7 got always got six strokes of the cane that was for sure. He used a very thin cane like a walking stick to cane you and it was the same cane that was used for your hands as was used for your backside. I cannot recall if he ever said anything to me when I was caned. There would be other boys waiting outside to be caned and when one came out the next one would go in. 14

This would happen to me say twice a month or once every two months, it didn't happen every

day or every week, but it happened to me quite a few times whilst I was there. 15

I have been asked if I thought that this caning was legitimate punishment. In them days you

were just frightened, you didn't think if it was legitimate or not, you just thought 'oh God I am going to get the cane'. 16

I never got on with

491

I do not think he liked me. I had problems with wetting the

bed, this was not a problem that I had before going to Haut De la Garenne and the problem began almost straight away. I actually got paranoid, because what I used to do was when I wet the bed, he would march you down to the showers and you would have to have a cold shower. I was only 12 years old at the time and used to be really frightened of it. Half the time you would not sleep at night for worrying about it, and if you did, you would end up like I used to, putting the sheets the other way around, so that he wouldn't find it. But he used to find it. He made a habit. of once you had gone to school, he would go and check your bed. You would come home and see your bed stripped and think "oh no". You would go to school worrying about whether he would have found it when you got back. 17

491

used to love just coming up in the middle of the night, not just to me, but

everyone, if you used to muck around between the Juniors and the Intermediates. He would love coming up twenty times a night to strip your beds and throw you out and think nothing of it. That happened to me quite a few times. He would come into the dormitory and start at one end and pull all the covers off the beds, whilst we were in our beds. He would then make you make your bed, you would get back in and then he would come back and do the same thing again, over and over again. He would come up at any time of night, 10 or 11 o'clock at night. But he would stop at a certain time, but I cannot remember what time exactly, but it was pretty late, bearing in mind that at our age, then we would go to bed at about 8 - 9pm. We would sometimes be asleep when this happened and get woken up. Signature:

233

Signature witnessed by:

C A CAMERON DC3872

2010/11

RESTRICTED 4

233

Statement of:

5754

RESTRICTED

Form MG ll(T)

Page 5 of 7 18

On a Saturday we would have cleaning duties, so you would have to clean the courtyard,

hallways, and the rota would go round in a circle to Juniors, Intermediates and Seniors. For a week you would do it. To try and get out of it, you would throw stuff from one dormitory into the other and hopefully they would start throwing stuff back and you would get out of it. Then you would listen to see if anyone was coming up the stairs and you would get into bed quick and the others would still be throwing the stuff in, then they would get the blame and they would have to do the cleaning. You would be told to get back into bed and be quiet but then

491

would have to

come up and stati. Like I said not just to me but to everybody in the dormitory. He would just pull the covers straight off whilst we were still in our beds. 19

491

If at anytime

came upstairs and he found that I had wet the bed, then he would I

say to me "Downstairs showers", and he would take me downstairs to have a shower. This would be a cold shower with no option of a warm shower. He would always stand there whilst you had a shower. There were no curtains or anything and he would stand right in front of you for the whole time whilst you were there. 20

On the nights that we used to have our normal showers, he would always be there just standing

there watching you. If he thought that you had not washed properly then he would make you go back and do it again, but he was always watching, the whole time that you were there. That was the way he used to do it, if that was his job I don't know. 21

Whilst I was at Haut De La Garenne, I was not sexually or physically assaulted. If I had been, I

would have 'punched their face in'. I am saying that now as an adult but I think looking back, that had anything like that happened to me then I would have stood up for myself. 22

I did not ever see anyone else be physically assaulted or sexually assaulted and no ever said to

me that they had been assaulted in any way. If it was going on then I never knew about it. I never saw anybody with any injuries, although I have to say that I cannot actually remember, as it was such a long long time ago. I have no knowledge of any detention rootns or cells. 23

My brothers, whilst we were at Haut De La Garenne never said to me that they had ever been

assaulted physically or sexually. I never saw them with any injuries.

Signature:

233

Signature witnessed by:

C A CAMERON DC3872

2010111

RESTRICTED 5

RESTRICTED

5755

233

Statement of:

Form MG ll(T)

Page 6 of 7 24

The only other children that I can recall as being at Haut De la Garenne at the same time as me 186

are: 172

284 & 338

I cannot recall any of the girls. I didn't really have any good friends, I was a loner. Even

after I left Haut De la Garenne there was no one I actually went around with after. 25

During my time at Haut De La Garenne, I was only ever in the Intermediate Group. I left Haut

De La Garenne, when I was fostered by

480 & 481

Garenne and take us out. They used to live at

They used to come to Haut De la at the time. When I was 14 and a half I '

went to live with them, my brothers stayed in Haut De la Garenne. The 480 & 481 moved to and then they fostered the rest of my brothers that had been in Haut De la Garenne 26

I actually left the

480 & 481

when I was 15 and a half and went to live in a boy's hostel. My

brothers stayed with the 480 & 481 . I lived in the hostel until I was 18 years old and then I moved in to a flat and tben learnt my trade as a 480 & 481

27

were lovely. I am grateful to them for keeping us, especially my

brothers and giving them a normal family life and they have all turned out well. I have to be grateful to them. However when my brothers called them mum and dad, I had a chip on my shoulder and that was one reason why I could not actually live with them. But I never had any problems with them and am not aware of any problems with my brothers. 28

The schools that I attended as a child were StJames Primary School and St Martins School.

29 Whilst at Haut De La Garenne, we got to know a

He used to come up there

regularly and he used to take us out for walks or down to the beach, he was always at Haut De La Garenne. To me he was such a nice bloke because we used to get out of Haut De La Garenne, because we were stuck there all the time. 30

There was also a

today. They used to have a farm up at

they were brother and sister. They are still alive with their parents, we used to go there sometimes.

They were lovely.

Signature:

233

Signature witnessed by:

C A CAMERON DC3872

2010111

RESTRICTED 6

233

Statement of:

RESTRICTED

5756 Form MG 11 (T)

Page 7 of7 31

My view ofHaut De La Garenne, looking back personally, is that it did not do me any harm.

The discipline, my children will tell you, I brought them up and disciplined them very strong and I have 32

children who have never caused me any trouble whatsoever.

f

It was a sad place to be. It was sad that I had no family, when it comes to Christmas, birthdays,

father's day, I do not like them, I cannot relate to anything like this. I put this down to Haut De La Garenne because we never had it. Christmas there would be to go down to the town hall and get an orange and an apple and that was Christmas. I suppose that in the 60s it was different what people expected to what they expect now. When we were at home and we had all our family there, we had a big party, Christmas trees and everything else. At Haut De La Garenne there was no such thing as Birthdays or that. 33

It did change me, of course it changed me, but if somebody lost six of their family in one day

could you be the same. It is very hard to engage with Haut De La Garenne, I do not think it helped me at all. It made me very determined, because I am a very determined person and I have built up my own business. 34

At 1000 on 01/07/08 I handed to DC CAMERON photographs which were taken during my

time at Haut De La Garenne. I can identify these photographs by the reference

I have

provided these photographs in order for the Police to make copies. I will retain the originals and will produce these if required at a later date.

Signature:

233

Signature witnessed by:

C A CAMERON DC3872

2010/11

RESTRICTED 7

10686 ··.

r .

CASE HISTORY 233

NAiv1.E:

DATE OF BIRTH: RELIGION : WHEP~

Ch1..1 rch of England.

CHRISTENED :

Chu,rch...

REASON FOR CARE: . Hother

SCHOOLS :

l;Ll+t.i l FE;b,

in ~Jiiss

from 16tho Peb:::."'Uary 1959 fJ.:'om Serrte:nb;;r, 1959o

...........~- - ' 1-~ lj ...

EMPLOYMENT :

1959..

cla.ssc

.

FATHER. ·

MOTHER:

SIBLINGS: 341

.. . .:£,-~Y?c.l_1jJ:i.tl1 ~P?.-:J:'t:;l1'tE:. ~t S.tL H~J.,iere. . F.e1)r'L'.,a.ry 1959 .fE,mi ly brought t o notice of Police because of appcdling living conditions.. 16th. Feb~· - ..1959 233 adJTiit'ted tc; · ·-nc>m~ for··Boys ~ ···· ·· ... Family·· re;;.;.hottsed · · irr 233 )~
· ··· 24-.. 8.62 ···· ·

233

e,dmitted·· to Haut · de ··la· ·Ga·renne·o · 480 & 481

.4.81~;·· · · · ~B=~~~~M

480 & 481

..

Moved to !te_·c_u.r-~~d . to

22.,9.67. . 23..(1~?~~ 67

GrotivjJ.le.

.: family Gr()l1P H()m?

. Admitted ..to ..Boys 1. . Hostel, 233 m'?_Y.e.~ t()

o ..

..

~- .JJ~ ~Cl.uez Estate

1

Independent Jersey Care Inquiry

Historic Abuse Redress Scheme Documentation 233

Application Form and Supporting Documentation Consent of claimant was sought - the claimant explicitly objected to the disclosure of their records

1

States 10 of Jersey Historic Abuse Redress Scheme - Application Form

Established in respect of Historic Child Abuse suffered when in the Full-Time Residential Care of the States of Jersey: 9 May 1945 - 31 December 1994 The completion of this Application Form is required in order to consider your claim for financial compensation. Therefore, please take time to provide the requested information as accurately and as fully as possible. The States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozanne.s, may require additional information in respect of the content of this Application Form if considered necessary to evaluate and process your claim. If there is insufficient room for any answer, a separate sheet may be attached to this Application Form

1. Personal details

233

.......................

Forenames: Surname: .....

Any former names or names by which known whilst in care

JV/A . ................

I

...............

Current permanent address ........................................

Contact telephone number: Date ofbirth:

............................................................

Place of birth: ..(Z.S.i

.

When submitting this Application Form, please provide certified copies of any two of the following: (a) passport; (b) driving licence; V (c) birth certificate; (d) marriage certificate; (d) a recent utility bill; V (e) any other official document confirming your identity

1

2

States otJelsev 2. Claimant's representative (if appointed) Name of representative Address of representative:

Relationship of representative to

3. Details of care Dates when in the full-time residential care of the States of Jersey:

M.A4c4lRk2LL 4, I4TPliA( i.A S o4€ . C' .i.t*Q...................................................... .....

Care Home(s) in question: .. '

Any relevant family background (if known):

PAn...... 341

Jui'1. .R3Th2 likE 233

..

$L&) I1L'f, - Names of any other children in care who were your friends or associates when in care: 284 186 338 i*i ........... I3tL ..QLR) SNO t'4 ............. 2 3 States WZPI ot Jersey 4. Abuse alleged to have taken place The following information is required to evaluate and process your claim. If there are events or matters you feel unable to commit to writing, please contact your representative or the States of Jersey's legal advisers, Mourant Ozannes, in order to discuss how to proceed. Detail if lengthy may be set out in a separate sheet to be attached to this Application Form Detail of abuse:............... it.c.. Th . NO -c a o5t1 . . PIJ, 0S Ncc.E.Th&.iLL - *is 233 a. iE3 . . CTC) . . ThYZOLto.Lkr Date(s)/time period(s) of abuse: ab (11 err....... .140 491 Perpetrator(s) of abuse: cçUi&3 Any witnesses to the abuse: 1LL1IC........ tS . . . (A$E. . ..

..............................................................

5.

Complaints of abuse

If you complained or confided in any other person at the time or shortly thereafter in relation to the abuse in question, please confirm to whom you complained or in whom you confided, what you advised them and of any action taken they or you took as a result: . . ..

NO---- .cQ. LI

.- (tE

233

.

.......T(..

TfRIT ..

.

...(p4 .cAft ...fgJ.,

(o.. o& .cAuM

co1 (Ao(E.

. t ....

3 4

States ot Jersey I

6. Criminal proceedings Please confirm if you provided a statement to the States of Jersey police as part of the YES I N historic abuse inquiry: Please confirm if any previous police statements have been provided in relation to the abuse / NO to any police force at any time: If YES, please specify the (approximate) date(s) of any statement(s) provided to the police:

tuc t1is-Cc.

2

YW2

If YES, by submitting this Application Form you are giving your unconditional consent to the release of all such police statements to Mourant Ozannes in order to consider your claim. If NO, please explain the reason for not providing a statement to the police: .................................................................................................................

Please confirm whether to your knowledge any of the persons named as abusers have been subject to criminal proceedings (whether found guilty or not) in any jurisdiction and give any detail known to you: . .................... ... .....

...... .......................... ................ (
Please confirm if you have ever given evidence in any criminal proceedings in relation to the abuse and if so state the Court and approximate date evidence was given:

............ ............................................................... . TC ..................................................................................

4

5

States otje r S e\T 7. Criminal Injuries Compensation Board application/award Please confirm if you have previously submitted a claim for compensation in respect of historic child abuse to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in Jersey:/ NO If YES and you did submit a claim, please confirm the outcome and the amount of any compensation received by you: historic abuse inquiry:

If YES, by signing this Application Form you are giving your consent to the release of all papers held by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board in respect of your claim and the outcome of it.

8. Previous civil proceedings Please confirm if any previous civil proceedings have been threatened or commenced by you or on your behalf against any party in relation to the allegations of abuse: : / NO

5

6

States of Jersey

WR

9. Claimant's personal declaration By signing this Application Form, I acknowledge and confirm that: (a)

I consent to the States of Jersey Police releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statement I have made in relation to an allegation of historical abuse;

(b)

I consent to any police authority releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any statements made in connection with any alleged abuse;

(c)

I consent to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board releasing to Mourant Ozannes any documents in their possession in respect of any claim submitted by me for financial compensation for any alleged abuse and any award made in my favour;

(d)

I consent to the disclosure of this application form to the States of Jersey Police and the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board;

(e)

I acknowledge and accept that in order for my claim to proceed, I may be required to meet with and discuss my claim with a psychiatrist in order that a psychiatric evaluation/report be prepared for the purposes of considering the compensation claim. I confirm that I agree to co-operate fully in such a report being prepared and provided to Mourant Ozannes and further agree that any material obtained pursuant to this application form may be shared with the psychiatrist preparing the report;

(f)

I agree that to the best of my abilities I will otherwise co-operate fully with Mourant Ozannes in providing information relevant to the determination of my compensation claim and to provide any relevant material in my possession to Mourant Ozannes for that purpose;

(g)

Save as explained above, I confirm that I have not received any form of damages or compensation from any source in respect of any of the allegations put forward in this Application Form;

(h)

I confirm that any records held by the States of Jersey, including social services records, hospital records, education records, medical records and mental health records will be reviewed as part of consideration of my claim;

(i)

I consent to the release of my private medical records (including general practitioner records and records held by any hospital or other medical practice, as I detail in the attached authority) to Mourant Ozannes for the purposes of assessing my claim and provide the attached authority for the purposes of obtaining those records from any medical practitioner(s).

6

7

Statc! iers of

10.

Warning: Risk of criminal prosecution

I understand and acknowledge that the provision by me of any information that I know to be untrue or false, or which I do not believe to be true, with a view to obtaining the payment of financial compensation under the scheme established by the States of Jersey is a criminal offence. As such, I am fully aware that, should the States of Jersey's advisers at any stage become concerned as to the truthfulness of any statements made by me, this Application Form and any other information supplied by me with a view to obtaining the payment of financial compensation will be referred to the States of Jersey Police for investigation and possible criminal prosecution.

11.

Declaration of truthfulness

By signing below, I HEREBY CONFIRM AND DECLARE the contents of this Application Form to be true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief.

233

Signed

233

Claimant Signature: 233

(Print Name): Dated:

2 2cz-

In the Presence of Signature: (Print Name and Professional Qualification):

k-'

-Ai

All communications in respect of the Scheme should be addressed as follows:PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL HISTORIC ABUSE CLAIMS Mourant Ozannes 18-22 Grenville Street St Helier Jersey JE4 SPX Tel: (00 44 1534) 676371 Fax: (00 44 1534) 676333 Email: historicclaims@mourantozannes.com

7

8

States oF el-sev Authority for access to Medical Practitioner Records I, hereby authorise the Medical Practitioners listed below to release to Mourant Ozannes of 12 Grenville Street, St Helier, Jersey, JE4 8PX all of my records held by them to include, but not be limited to, copies of all consultation notes, hand written notes, computer records, test results, imaging results and any other records held by the medical practitioner. I understand that the request for all records will include everything held by my medical practitioner whether the medical practitioner considers them relevant to the allegations that I am making or not, so that a full medical history is known.

233

Signature:

Print Name and Address:

Date of Birth:

Names of both past and present medical practitioners that you have been registered with since birth:

Date A coov of this authority shall be deemed to have the same authorit y as the oriainal.

8

9

HISTORIC ABUSE REDRESS SCHEME 233 Further notes to accompan y application form Paragraph 3 - Al - Details of care 233

nd his f siblings were put into care when their father leit, the Island soon after 1 I Its father survived the accident 2012 when 233 but he never saw him again until he died. was 11 years of age and his siblings were all was 18 months old when his younger than him when the y were put 11110 care at the Home. mother died and he was subsequently adopted by a who lived at 233 His brothers were all in the Junior part of the Home and he was placed in the Intermediates. was resident at the I home for 3 years and left there just before his 15 11, birthday in 1965. 480 & 481 Just before he eti the I lome a used to come and visit them at the I lotne and he 480 & 481 went to live with them for a while with his brothers. became his siblings foster parents and they were offered a house at where his brothers went with them to fi v e. 233 did not go with them and went to live in a l3ov's I lostel \vhere he staved until lie was about 18 years of age and was able to get his own flat and live independently. I-he could not accept his siblings 480 & 481 'mum and dad'. I lowever he understands now that his calling , , was 3 ears' younger than brother, , was only 3 or 4 years of age and the 233 at the Lime. 233 the

started working at

where he learned his trade as

and lie now works at

Paragraph 4 - A2 - Detail of Abuse continued 233 siblings when he arrived at the was a young boy with time spent at the I Ionic F-Ionic. F-Ic had just lost hi and his fattier, , then abandoned them and vent to live in lngiand. I Fe was separated from Ill, younger brothers and was put in a dormitor y with other boys his age or older. He started to wet the bed and con6nued to do so throughout his Wile at the I Ionic. No one ever talked to him about bedwetting, no help was offered, no emotional support, no medical intervention or other assistance was forthcoming. cannot remember how to spell a certain carer's name but it was pronounced ' 491 491 491 soon realised was in charge of the mieritiediate dormitories at the tune. 491 that was wetting the bed on a regular basis and if this happened would strip off all the covers and leave it like that until all the boys arrived back from St. Martin's School. All the 233 oilier boys would know what had happened. was grossly embarrassed and humiliated and 491 this caused hu immense distress. (_)n occasions would make him take a shower and watch 491 him whilst he did so and if idn't think that he had washed properlY he would send him back to shower again. 233 '.

233 If ad wet the bed and had to go to school the next morning he would worry all da y about 491 the consequences and vliat would do which invariably leach to hum being taunted with cruel the dormitory. During certain evenings if the boys had been naughty remarks made 1w the other boys in 233 491 would come and had been in trouble or if ad wet the bed on a particular cla y into the dormitor y whilst they were sleeping and throw everyone's sheets onto the floor so all the bo ys in

[)1r,:J,,1t)/ t.NID/

10

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11

233

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be - - a ftl . n. IDINt

233

at the • tM ~. 9• &2, M walb fw .. 1aaarc ...a .,. w a 1-.r talk allc!a' 1111111, bu\, 111e aooe an ill8olr 233

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all hl• ,_. U.. after IIOboa1 a'\ tbe

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8

15764

TIME-LINE 264

233

05/06/63 visit frmn 186 20/06/63 sore anus 13.5 years 233 07/03/63 visit to 17/07/63 admitted to home Aged 8.5 years 186 21/09/63 visit by 233 21/09/63 visit by 21/09/63 visit from 05/10/63 visit from 233 26110/63 visit from 26 '10/63 visit from 264 186 26/10/63 visit by October 63 186 sore anus and area between buttocks* see above. 264 30/11/63 186 visit by 233 30/11/63 out with 30/11/63 out with 186 264 01/02/64 Day with 233 0 l/02/64 visit from 233 16/02/64 visit from 186 264 07/03/64 visit to 24/04/64 186 visit to 233 24/04/64 out with 28/04/ 64 out with 265 16/05/64 out with 264 11.5 years 265 264 20/06164 out with 233 20106164 out with 265 18/07/64 out with 264

1

1 5765

284

27/06/64 27/06/64 30/06/64

04107164 04107164 11107/64 11/07/64

taken out by 264 out with out with

123 284 284

taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by

264

aged 13 11years

264 264

Aged 12 y ears.

264 264 264

18/07/64 taken out by 264 19/0764 out with * 13 years 264 284 01/08/64 taken out by 03/08/64 : Herpes on lip* 08/09/64 : Herpes on lip* 264 493 27/08/64 Post card sent from

12109164 12109/64

284

19/09/64

284

taken out by

26/09/64 03/10/64 10/10/64 17110/64 24/10/64 31/1 0/64 07111/64 21111 /64 28/11/64 12/12/64 02/01 65 09/01 /65

284

taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by taken out by out with taken out by

16101/65 16/05/65' 06/02/65 /65 27/02/65 03/04/65

taken out by taken out by

123 284

264 264 264

Aged 14

264

264 264

284 186

taken out by 264 : 264 day with aged 14.5

284

taken out by of

284

264

taken out by taken out by

264

to 264

2

15766

264 284 10/04/65 Aften10on with 15/04/65 Afternoon with 17/04/65 Afternoon with 284 264 23&25/04/65 Weekend with 284 264 15105/65 Day with 264 15105/65 afternoon with *.... 284 264 21 &23/05/65 Weekend with 264 284 29/05/65 Day with 11/06/65 Herpes *.... 284 264 19/06/65 Day with 284 264 3&4/07/65 Weekend with 264 07/07/65 wife unable to cope 284 & 338 brothers 284 264 10/07/65 Day with 284 264 16 to 18/07/65 Weekend with 20/08/65 Herpes and headache 264 25/07/65 discharged from home photo at 284 264 23 July to August? 1965 Holiday with . 186 31/07/65 discharged 264 284 13/09/65 Inten1alletter re boarding with 264 to 30/10/65 123 264 20/11/65 out with 17/01/66 Herpes 195 22/01/66 to 264 for afternoon.llyea~s 05/02/66 to for afternoon I 123 264 19/02/66 day with 195 264 05/03/66 out with 11/03/66 constipated abdominal pain [exams] 22/03/66 Rash top of legs 26/03/66 Herpes on lip 264 23/04/66 out with 195 18/06/1966 transferred to seniors. 123 264 23/07/66 afternoon with 30/07/66 out with 264 aged I 0 years 264 195 03/12/66 out with . 264 18/02/67 day out 12 years

3

15767

1 1/03/67 28111/67 68 /68 21/04/69

*

195

herpes on lip herpes today Listed 2001 dia1y. listed 2001 diary discharged to reception area UK. 14 years

195

195

numerous outings listed between 17/04/66 & 19/06/66: 13/11/66 & 22/10/67: 08/10/1965 to 11/04/66 12/05/68 to 15112/68: 24/12/68 to 21/04/69 not involving 264 except for dates listed above.

284

264 file: Letter from CCO referring to and the 264 284 & 338 stating that his wife would not be brothers. able to cope with housing both boys however he could cope with one namely 284 284

file: 13 September 1965 a letter referring to of being boarded out to 264 and the amount they were to be paid.

284 195

result of

284

: NO MEDICAL RECORDS IN FILE

started 195

when at the home. Was this as a being an alleged victim?

264 Congratulations card re and his wedding sent from Haute de La Garenne.

Board meeting La Chasse: Member of any board?

4

1 5768

Person 's spoken to who were taken out by

186 265 284

123

264

x 4 ......... ..... Spoken to. x3 : x 33 ....... Spoken to :x3 :x1 x4

x3 x1

All individuals when spoken to were asked open questions. Conducting enquiry into serious historic incident at Haute De La Garenne during early 1960. I understand that you were at Haute De La Garenne during this period. Can you recall the names of any staff members when you were at ! the home? I Can you recall the names of any children at the home at this tin1e? Friends etc.

i 1

Any concerns relating to any staff members? Did you hear of any concerns relating to any members of staff? Were there any adult visitors to the home?

5

15769

Did you go out with any adults who did not work at the home? Ifthe name of 264 was mentioned or any other adult further questions were put in relation to any concerns regarding this particular individual i.e cars boats locations etc.

6

15778

RESTRICTED DOCUMENT RECORD PRINT

Officer's Report Number REF:

TO: STN/DEPT:

SIO OPERATION RECTANGLE

FROM: STN/DEPT:

SUPPCARTER,BRlAN OPERATION RECf ANGLE

REF: TEL/EXT:

SUBJECT:

CONTACf INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE TAKEN

DATE:

01 /02/2010

TITLE:

Action 3965 TFST 186 N171: 186 has not been contacted at this time. He was spoken to 264 enquiry in 2004; he did not disclose any concerns at that time. He later during the provided a witness statement during Operation Rectangle and again no concerns were identified.

284 Action 3966 TFST : He has previously been spoken to regarding 264 264 . He has no complaint to make and is pro ; therefore under these circumstances he has not been contacted this time around.

Action 3967 TFST : He has been spoken to on several occasions and there 264 264 is no complaint regarding . He is not recorded as going out with ; his name was initially mentioned during the 2004 enquiry as being a person who may be able to provide background information relating to HDLG. For this reason he has not been contacted on this occasion.

123 was initially spoken 2004. She has also een Action 3968 TFST 264 on more than the four spoken to recently and has stated that she went out with occasions listed on her personal file and that three or four children would go out as a group. 264 She went to 's home address on where his wife cooked a meal. She Wrut also 264 which she believes was separate from the taken to 's apartment at the 284 & 338 were normally part of the , at this time he was a single man. group and he would also pick another couple. He is described as being a nice, kind gentleman. The normal routine would be collection from the home at 2pm, then onto the cinema, tea and then back to the home and in bed by eight o clock.

A3969 TFST has previously been spoken to and reiterated 264 . When he was asked how many times that he had been that he had no concerns about 264 he said about a dozen times, which worked out about once a month. He also out with 264 would take two or three children out on a weekly basis. It was mentioned to stated that

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15779

RESTRICTED DOCUMENT RECORD PRINT

264 him that his personal file showed him going out with on only three occasions. He replied that it was a very long time ago and that he may have got this wrong. When pushed on this matter he agreed that it was likely that his initial estimation was more accurate. He is prepared to provide a witness statement.

Action 3970 TFST : During the initial investigation in 2004 was spoken to, no concems were reported. He has also been spoken to during 264 Operation Rectangle and again he has stated that he had no concems regarding 264 is not recorded as going out with ; his name was given during the initial enquiry as a person who may have knowledge ofHaut de La Garenne. Action 3971 TFST : Sibling to has stated in report R 7AC 264 that he and his brother went out with on a regular basis. There are no outings with 264 recorded on personal file. The only known association between 264 264 and is a photograph of with in the foreground. The back of the photograph is endorsed with the name . Action 3973 TFST has previously been spoken to where he provided the following information.He was taken out on his own on several occasions by 26 264 4 in what he describes as a car', maybe a . He would be taken to the cinema or for a pizza. He was also taken to a property which had a small swimming pool and that the property bad large glass windows and there were also louvre doors. (This is likely to be the 264 rented by 's parents). 264 however he thought it strange cannot recall any inappropriate behaviour by 264 that he was taken out on his own. He seems to think that when he was not taken out by , 174 342 either or went out with him.

Action 3974 . He does not want to help the enquiry as he wishes to put the 264 and he certainly cannot past behind him. He cannot recall a person by the name of recall going out in this man's car. 233 Action 3975 TFST 264 the investigating officer that He has not been spoken to on this occasion.

was spoken to in 2004. At that time he advised 264 was not the that he had been out with.

265 265 : On Monday 1st February 2010 was Action 3976 TFST 264 spoken to on the telephone and he has stated that he went out with on at least twenty 264 occasions if not more. He is recorded as going out with on three occasions.

Following a meeting with on Friday 15th January 2010 he has stated that the recording of witness statements from the aforementioned be put on hold at this time pending contact 338 with in . B CARTER C602

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LA CEY A D V O C A TES

Independent Jersey Care Inquiry

Education Sport and Culture Department Documentation

Relevant Education Committee Minutes, Children's Sub-Committee Minutes and Reports

1967

1

a p p e n d ix

EDUCATIOi^T

2 6 .7 .6 7

140. ith M t g . )

COMITTRR

CHILDREN'S

SUB-CQM'^ITTEE

1 Minutes of a meeting of the Children's Sub-Committee held at the ' Education Department on Wednesday, 12th July, 1967. Present:

Deputy A. C. Queree

Attendance;

H. C. A. Wimberley, M.A., Director of Education Miss P. L. Thornton, Children's Officer C. Smith, Deputy Children’s Officer )

Children Care Officers for Nos. 17 - 19

480 & 481 279 C. E. Tilbrook, Superintendent Haut de la Garenne for

■ 1.

Apologies for absence were received from

i 2. The Sub-Committee received the report of Houseparents of F^nily Group Home No. 3 at .

Lunch arrangements for children.

480 & 481

The Sub-Committee, referring to

1 its Minute No. 5 of 14th December, 1966, requested the Children's ; Officer to arrange, if possible, for and : and attending St. Mark's School to be taken home . for lunch between 12.00 noon and 1.45 p.m.

279 ly Group I 3. The Sub-Committee welcomed who had recently taken ISo. 4 up her duties as Housemother at the Family Group Home No. 4,

4.

The Sub-Committee approved one of the children and decided out of his pocket money towards

302

the purchase of a violin for living at Family Group Home No. 2 at that he .should contribute l/- a week the cost.

5. The Sub-Committee was informed that the pool of equipment maintaine^il by the Organiser of Outdoor Activities was in full use during the summer and approved the purchase out of the Boys Trust Funds of two sleeping bags for use by the Children of Family Group Home No. 2 at

6. The Sub-Committee received the report of the Superintendent of Kaut de la Garenne for June 1967 and noted that on 30th June there were 56 children in residence (l9 girls; 3^ boys; 1 boy and 1 >>rirl on remand and 1 daily trainee girl); and that the number of children resident in the Home in the month had totalled 77 (29 girls; 4k boys; 1 girl and 2 boys on remand and 1 daily trainee girl). .

90

■VS ■> >- !v

140. ;th M t g . )

(a)

Elizabeth House. Arisin^r out of the tenporary admission of 438 to Haut de la Qarenne because she was refused admission to Elizabeth House (where she was living?) for returning late one evening, it was decided to ask the Education Committee to invite Mrs. G. Huelin, President of the Elizabeth House Committee, to attend a meeting of the Education Committee on 27th September to discuss the general policy of Elizabeth House.

346 (b) and The Sub-Committee approved the 346 payment of a grant of £3 10s. Od. eadh to and to be charged to the Holiday Vote towards the expenses of a holiday with their father and step-mother in England for three weeks during August. (c) Birthday Gifts. The Sub-Committee recommended the following increase in the present allowance of 7/6 for each child for birthday ; presents: ! i

1 - 3 years 3 - 5 years 5 - 7 years 7 - 1 1 years 11 years and over

j

j i

7/6 9/lO/12/6 15/-

I i (d) Library. The Sub-Committee approved the purchase of books to a ! i maximum of £80 from the Renouf Library Grant to replenish the stock of j I books in the children's library at Haut de la Garenne. j : I ! The Sub-Committee agreed that it v;as essential for the staff to ■ i have a small library of both professional and general books in the Home: and decided that an amount of £30 should be included in its ordinary 1 • estimates annually for this purpose. j (e) The Sub-Committee, r Minute Mo. 5(f) of 14th June, 1967, was informed that as marriage had ■ been postponed she wished to withdraw her resignation for the time ! being. The Sub-Committee accepted her withdrawal of notice. j

P'S

5J. t

7.

The Sub-Committee approved the following appointments: - Assistant Housemother from 25th September, 1967, - Nursery Assistant from 1st August, 1967.

'|Ja^ Sfifeents med

8. The Sub-Committee confirmed the following appointments on completion of the six months probationary period:

'P.

9. The Sub-Commit.tee was informed that Miss P. Maurice H.M.I. would be coming to the Island from 30th October to 4th November, in connexion with the proposed scheme of Training. 10. The Sub-Committee considered an application submitted by the . 158 Guernsey Education Council for the admission of ( .58) to Haut de la Garenne. The Sub-Committee approved the boy's admission in Senteraber 1967 subject to a vacancy being available and to the Guernsey Authority being charged an economic rate for the boy's maintenance.

91

140. 1th Mtg.)

11. The Sut-Committee was informed that the new National Joint Council scale of salaries would be issued shortly and that it would be referred! direct to the Rducation Committee. I 12. The Sub-Committee approved the purchase of tickets for the Battle , of Flowers at V/- for adults and 4/- for children to be charfred to the Rolston Bequest. 13. The Sub-Committee received the report of the Supervisor of the Junior Training Centre for June 1967 and noted that there were 53 children on register.

14 . The Sub-Committee was informed by the Superintendent that

1

has been appointed Matron at liS Preference Vegetarian Home, would be suitable for appointment as Assistant Supervisor for the proposed adult group. It was agreed that the post could not be offered until the adult work room was ready.

15 . The Sub-Committee was informed that the question of the adult work room would be considered by the Education Committee again at its meeting on 26th July and it was decided that should be invited to attend. 16. The Sub-Committee decided to recommend the erection of a lean-to shed for the accommodation of bicycles and tricycles at the Junior Training Centre-.

17 . The Sub-Committee received the Children's Officer's Report for June, 1967 . 431 (a) - The question of the Education Committee's accepting responsibility for the payment of bail for children in care 431 was discussed arising from the case of and it was decided to consider the matter again at the next meeting of the Sub­ committee. 18.

The Sub-Committee decided that the return fares to London of and who were living at La Preference Vegetarian Home and who were having a holiday in London should be charged to the Trust Funds. , I tefof 19 . The Sub-Committee decided to hold its next meeting on Wednesday, Ht fleeting I 16th August, at the Education Office.

92

233 233

continues to bs b s erratic as ever and since our last report has :|his Job with He is now y/orking in v/arohouee where giegeems to have found employment within his capabilities, elthough he has *|»ot^een there long enough as yet to be of this, We have experienced I^Ci^lderable difficulty in getting to keep himself clean. He was to Overdale Hospital for two weeks dtiring the middle of June with onoSkind of and, fortunately, has kept nself a lot cleaner since being discharged and is trying hjird to be helpful latBome. At the present moment he is helping with the garden,

'■W

341

b,

,56.

r The thought of starting at St, Elolier Hoys’ School next term is delighting 341 and after a recent visit to the school he came home full of all the new ?6 he is hoping to be able to Join in. He io rather like and tends ;to be erratic. He does try to help everyone in the family no matter what they lare^dolng, which at tinses does not always produce the gratitude he anticipates.

We find the most nontiul of all the and he is full of loves sports and is hoping to go horse-riding in the near future. He is lously of average level at school and finds it lees of a strain now, b.

59.

is really settled dovm and enjoys school. His glasses have roved to be a great help. He adores the two rabbits which we have as family pets, b

60.

is full of fun emd continuee to look forv/ard to her father's weekly Lsits, Although she is being referred to Dr, Durell by the school doctor for ttvestlgation, she appears to be a nonnal healthy child, She does, of course, Iwiffer quite badly with her v/hioh gives us many disturbed nights,

439

A-‘

. b

[i

64,

439 first came to ur three days before Christinao and stayed for three 3th9, She has recently returned to us as her mother is in the final period pf her pregnancy, ie an elder sister of the boys, 439 has been far more settled during this second stay and we haVe seen qui.d [a lot of her mother, who visits a couple of days a week, Pa;rdlyt These are being daily minded by us as their mother ie in fthe Karie Louise "Tard of the General Hospital, Their father collects tlienj each jevening and cares for them until the next morning.

93

FAMILY GBOUP HDMI.? yo,?.- House'o^^rents* Report

a^difference our now hcmcfc icskeR, and we oan only say that the whole de^ghted. We feel that all who wore connected with Its planning ctton ohould bs coroplimented on the result, ^before Christinas visited the boys for the first \th8y have been in our care. Although the younger boys did not really fltlffl, -rfche eldest obviouely did and we think it possible that his return ^Ith/their sisters(who were with may well have i't being so unsettled. The children are continuing their at|5t,'^ark's at present, fl'ereTpleased wj.th the Committee’s approval of our plans for another , Camp'holiday this year. So for we have not been abla to complete our 0, [felnly due to the tv/o eldest boys changing their jobs, NeverW0 ?are expectir^ to go the first v/eek in September,

(signed)

480 & 481 Houseparcnts,

94

STATES

OF

CSILBRSN’S

f f

EEUCATIOS

JEHSEY>

SUB

CXJmTTEB

CCBMITfgh;

Meeting to Be held at the M u o a t i o n Department, Pier Eoad at 2»30 p.ra. on ------------- ----Wednesday the 15th» November. 1967«

FAMILY Q30UP HOME JSUMBER 3. HOUSE? ASElfTS'

RSPORr

233

233

b. 49 and b. 50. and left ua to stay in the J.A.Y.F. Boys' Hostel while wo went on holiday with the rest of the family at the ond of 3aptember. They settled quits well and it was agreed that they should ramain thare.

341

b. 56. We were pleased St. M a r k ’s School and that ho reoeived a prize accepted into the St. Helier Boys' School Band on a school Ke is looking forward next week.

with 341 ’s final report from for progress. Ho has bean and hae been practising at home to ;joi^ng the

v-i

, b. ,58. aeems very happy in his present class. He makes friends well, is very sensible for his age and obviously likes hia new teacher. Ea gets on very well with the rest of the family and in particular with had a very satisfactory school report. b. *59* continues to make progress although he Is atill well below average for his age. His teacher has said that he still finds it very hard to concentrate. mixed very well at the holiday camp and joined in most of the ohildreti's activities inoluding the children's concert. This was particularly noticeablo to us as, at one time, he would not leave u.3. b. "shell” and at home is noisier going to need a lot of help as longer attends ,

439

b,

60. has certainly come out of her than any of the others. She is obviously far as her sohooling is conoemed. She no and her is almost noTBial.

second baby was born on the has remained with us. She is a lovely little girl but is becoming very awkward lately and goes out of her way to aggravata the others. We feel that this is due to her feeling unsettled and possibly to the fact that ahe had expeotod to return to her mother.

1967 > Lut

64.

439

b. 66. stayed with us for two and a hal.f weeks diiring October, prior to her going to She was a marvellous baby.

Our holideiy at Holiday C a ^ , was a great auooess and all the children really had a Bjarvellous time. They had horse-riding, boating and many aoti\tLti©3 to interest them all. They took part in the Junior Qaap Show and five of the children were in a party-piece of tksr own whiob. was given groat applause. We have settled very nicely in Le Squez and all agree it is a completely ideal place for a Group Homs. We can let the children take themselves to the beach and wa have plenty of opsn apace quite nearby. The children have made many little friends. The introduction of to help at six o'clock each evening has made a tremendous difference end means that we esan have plenty of time with the children before they go to bed. and then have an evening free from chores.

126

n/67 -

2

-

We were sorry to lose 233 and although it was becoming a strain trying to oope with them and keep t h ^ happy. They had become very restless and at times resented ua. 'We do hope that our influence on -chsD will be of some help in later life and that they have learned the happiness of family life. We have seen quite a lot of them in the past two of three weeks and 233 bought the children some fireworks which we thought was very thoughtful.

m

-4 CXtr first five months at are the happiest w© have had since W 9 were appointed houseparents and oan tell by the children's progress that they are certainly very happy here.

480 & 481

Houseparentac

ii

127

12707

Statement

Form MG 11 (T) Page 1 of 4

STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Witness Statement

Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jersey) Law 1988

Statement of: Age if under 20: OVER 18 (if over 20 insert 'over 20')

Occupation:

This statement (consisting of 5 page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true. Signature:

ER

Date:

07/03/2008

Tick if witness evidence is visually recorded [] (supply witness details on rear)

In the case of witnesses who produce exhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the

witness statement MUST contain the following endorsement:"I am employed as ...... at ....... As such, part of my responsibilities includes making witness statements on behalf of ........ I do so from my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of ....... These records may be either paper

based or computer based, which have been subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, form part of the records related to ........ and were compiled, at every stage by

staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied."

Signature:

Signature witnessed by:

DC3371 SLATTER

2010/11

1

12708

Statement of

Date:

Form MG 11 (T) Page 2 of 4

Signed

1. I am the above named and currently live at the address overleaf with my husband

.

2. We moved to Jersey in July 1962 moving from 3. We initially lived in a flat but moved to our first house almost two years later after approaching the islands children's officer with a view to fostering. 4. Our first house was a three storey four bedroom semi detached house at

341

233

5. At this time we took in fi

. These boys had the surname o 6. Their father had been involved in a

hortly before we arrived on the island and

had subsequently left the children to be taken into care. The and he also had a drink problem. 7. There were other siblings who we did not look after but did meet periodically and not until a few years after our initial contact with the boys. 8. The boys for about 1-2 years prior to us fostering them had been living at the Haut de la Garenne. We initially made contact with them at Haut de la Garenne and took them out for days here and there in order for them to get to know us. 9. We were not particularly happy with the way the children were being treated there. Nothing

particularly bad but just a lack of respect for the children including not allowing them out with us if they did not eat their meals.

also stated that a staff member also kicked him under the table

because he would not eat his meals. 10. In general the boys were well behaved and did not give us any problems. However, 341 was

always a problem. He had problems with his behaviour, including bullying the other boys, playing

Signature:

Signature witnessed by:

DC3371 SLATTER

2010/11

2

12709

Statement of:

Form MG 11 (T) Page 3 of 4

truant and stealing. He was difficult to get close to and always seemed angry. When he was about 14-15 years old he left our care and moved into a hostel at Basil Lodge. We felt we could not cope with 341 anymore. We have slowly lost touch with him and his brothers have little to no contact with him. 11. At this time we also fostered a girl called old when she came to us.

as about 2-3 years

came from Westerway Creche.

12. We also had two children of our own

born 1960 and 1963 respectively.

13. In around 1966 we moved to a house on

. This was a house built

especially for us to look after our children and was effectively gave us

. This

. The house was given to us by the Children's Officer specifically for our

fostering. This house has recently been featured on the television due to a family who moved in after we left being investigated for child abuse. 14. When we made initial contact with Haut de la Garenne in around 1963 and began making contact with the boys we had very little contact with members of staff. However, through the

Children's Officer, Pat THORNTON we met the superintendent Colin TILBROOK. TILBROOK did not particularly like us as we were critical about the punishment methods including them not being allowed out with us because they hadn't eaten their meals. We were only allowed to see the boys dormitory on one occasion and we felt that we had to stick up for the boys.

15. Pat THORNTON would also do anything for the children and we had a good relationship with her. She would invite ourselves and all our children around for tea. 16. About 2-3 months after we started looking after the

boys a couple who were

houseparents at Haut de la Garenne called us and visited us at our home. I do not recall meeting them before but they stated that they were leaving Jersey and wanted to see the boys prior to leaving. They were a married couple who had a surname o

omething as their surname

and had a strong accent.

17. They stayed at the house for some time. During this visit the lady stated that they were leaving and that "terrible things" were happening at Haut de la Garenne. This included children being Signature:

Signature witnessed by:

DC3371 SLATTER

2010/11

3

12710

Statement of:

Form MG1 l(T) Page 4 of 4

drugged and being removed from their dormitories at night. They also stated that Superintendent

TILBROOK was also involved and they felt that they could not approach the home directly. 18. At this time we told them if they were concerned to contact the authorities. I did not believe what this couple were saying and had not heard any of the boys stating the same. The boys were the only children we fostered from Haut de la Garenne. 19. I have not heard any other accounts or rumours about Haut de la Garenne and although I believe the regime was quite strict have no evidence to say that anything else more sinister was happening there. 20. Over the years we have fostered hundreds of children as we went into emergency fostering which worked better for us. Even now we bump into children who have grown up and remember their time with us. 21. We still keep close contact with the died about two years ago after moving to

ther than

341 and

who

.

22. Our last house which we had built again specifically for our fostering needs was . We left there after about 22 years and moved into our current address. 23. In 1974 we fostered another child from Haut de la Garenne. She was called and was 6 years old when she came to us.

was only in Haut de la Garenne for a short time

due to her father having mental health problems. Her father was upset that she was in a children's home and as a result the home were keen to foster her externally for her own stability.

lived

with us until she was 18 years old. We still have regular contact with her on a daily basis. 24. The

rothers all stayed with us until they were of an age when they met

girlfriends and got married other than 341 who left when he was 15 years and

who went to

when he was about 17 years.

Signature:

Signature witnessed by:

DC3371 SLATTER

2010/11

4

1185 341

Statement

Form MOll(T) Page 1 of 7

STATES OF JERSEY POLICE Witness Statement

Article 9 Criminal Justice (Evidence and Procedure)(Jersey) Law 1988

341

Statement of:

Age if under 20: OVER 18 (if over 20 insert'over 20')

Occupation:

This statement (consisting of 7 page(s) each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false, or do not believe to be true. 341

Signature:

LLE

Date:

10/03/2008

Tick if witness evidence is visually recorded [] (szlppl2 witness details on rear)

In the case of witnesses who produce exhibits which have been created or received in the course of a trade, business or profession or other occupation i.e. computer printouts or copy bank records, the

witness statement MUST contain the following endorsement:"I am employed as ...... at ....... As such, part of my responsibilities includes making witness statements on behalf of ........ I do so fl'om my own knowledge and experience and from information obtained by me from the business records of ....... These records may be either paper

based or computer based, which have been subsequently printed onto paper. These records for the purposes of Article 65 of the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence (Jersey) Law, 2003, folÿ part of the records related to ........ and were compiled, at every stage by

staff members, acting under a duty, in the ordinary course of that everyday trade or business from information supplied by persons, whether acting under a duty or not, who had, or may reasonably be supposed to have had, personal knowledge of the matters dealt with in the information and they cannot reasonably be expected (having regard to the time which has elapsed since they supplied the information and to all the circumstances) to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the information supplied."

Signature:

341

Signature witnessed by:

SZTYBER-OMER

2010/11

1

1186

Date:

Form MG1 I(T) Page 2 of 7

341

Statement

Signed

1. I am a fifty one year old male and I was born on

956 in Jersey. My father was an

alcoholic and my mother worked hard to look after us all. In my early childhood and my father couldn't cope looking after the rest of us. 2. We were first sent to live at BRIG-Y-DON childrens home and remained there for about six or seven months. When I was approximately seven years old we were sent to Haut de la Garenne. My

233

brothers

ame with me. My sisters who lived in

were sent to the

When we got to Haut de la Garenne we were all

split up on arrival and I was taken straight to a dormitory by a member of staff called

. It

was a great big long room on the upper floor. I could see the fields from the dormitory windows and there was a big black fire escape at the back.

took charge of me. I remember she had

hair. 493, 174

3. People I can remember being there wer 338, 579 and 342

.

It was an all male dormitory and slept about ten to fifteen of us. 4. We had a strict regime every day, being up early every morning for a bath or a shower° If you got up to use the toilet during the night you would be hit by the

as that wasn't

allowed° They would often punch you in the face or a kick you. This happened to me from day one. I was only a child and I was frightened. My parents had never hit me and this was alien to me. I didn't know what was going on or why this was happening. This happened day in day out. The staff were the ones doing the assaulting. 5. In the kitchen there was a big machine for skinning potatoes. The drain would freeze up in winter and

bleeding and

491 491

would make us dig the ice out with our bare hands. Often my hands would be

would stamp on my hand forcing it into the drain. It would hurt and I would

squeal but he wouldn't stop, he was a sadistic bastard.

Signature:

341

491

Signature witnessed by:

.

SZTYBER-OMER

2010/11

2

1187 341

Statement of

Form MGI I(T) Page 3 of 7

6. Whether summer or winter whenever it was dark we were sent to the dormitory to sleep. I

would regularly wake up in the night and someone would be touching my private palÿs, or i would wake up with someone's genitals in my face° I know it was the

and I wiI1 never

forget their faces, but I can't remember their names.

579

7. The one occasion that sticks in my memory was when I saw toilets by a

being raped in the

. He was squealing like a pig and she was being anally raped. I couldn't

intervene because [ would have been beaten or worse. If you said anything out of place you would get a hiding, and I didn't want the same thing to happen to me.

579

went into himself after that

and he never spoke about it.

8.

ad a room near the

I think she was in her mid t

regularly sexually assaulted the boys. I witnessed

She

giving boys oral sex and the older

boys, who were twelve to fourteen often had sex with her. These things would always take place in her room. I remember she was very fond o

who who was well endowed. The

younger boys used to watch it regularly. She would lift her skirt up and show you her private parts. I used to give

ral sex when I was about seven or eight years old. She would take me in

her room, open her legs and me to lick her private parts, therefore I would. I thought it was norma!, and was too young to realise what was going on. I didn't know that it was wrong. 9. I remember a lady called She was also in her mid

oo. I am not sure if this was her Christian or surname. and she was a

lady. She was another one who was sexually

assaulting the boys. I recall she used to stick candles into her vagina in front of the boys° 10. At that time the only people I did trust and who were 'nmÿal' were ok me to her mothers house and after I had a

operation and was brave.

ave me a medal

knew what was going on as I confided in

her. She always wanted to adopt me, but wasn't allowed to. She told me that she couldn't do anything to stop what was happening as she would have been sacked or assaulted. 11. There was one lady who was really f

but I can't remember her name. Rather than hit you

with an open hand she would punch you hard. She would grab you by the testicles and squeeze hard. She was

Sigÿnature:

than the others and was nasty. She looked like an old matron in the war. 341

Signature witnessed by:

SZTYBER-OMER

2010/11

3

1188 341

Statement of:

Form MG 1 I(T) Page 4 of 7

12. I remember one time when a girl, ! think her name might have been

was crying.

TILBROOK went mad, took hold of her and threw her down a full flight of stairs. She must have been about fourteen of fifteen at the time. The stairs were high and I saw her at the bottom and she wasn't moving. I never saw her again after that. We were grabbed by the hair and told to bugger off was a little skinny thing with friends was a girl called

hair which was

who later went to the

in colour. One of her

.

13. The male staff members were always sexually assaulting the girls. Some would get pregnant and then later the baby would be gone. it was so long ago that I can't remember names, probably because I was so young. I remember a girl called

who was pregnant when she was

about fourteen years old. She wouldn't say who the father was but we knew it was a member of staff. One minute she was noticeably pregnant and then she disappeared. I asked where she went but they wouldn't tell me, they just said she had moved on, I remember her being really pretty with hair. 14. Girls were sexually assaulted all the time. We used to touch the gifts as well, as we came to think of it as being norma!, even at that age. We learned this behaviour from the staff and didn't realise it was wrong. It was a regular thing that girls were assaulted by male members of staff ha the showers and toilets.

15. One incident I remember was being thrown into a boiling hot shower by TILBROOK. I couldn't reach the taps to make it colder and he held me in there. He held my face against the glass of the shower. As this was happening I remember seeing a girl curled up on the floor of the shower, naked. TILBROOK dragged me out of the shower by my face. When he had gone I made my way over to the girl and I picked her up. She was shaking like a leaf and saying 'it's him, he does it all the time', meaning TILBROOK. I still become upset and angry when thinldng about the things that

TILBROOK put us through. 16.

493

nd I were very dose. He was my best friend in Haut de la Garenne, but

prior to this we used to be

. 493 and I were troublesome kids. We were

always in trouble for getting tip to pranks. We used to run across the aircraft runway as the planes were landing and silly thfngs like this. I was at the home first and then 493 came to Haut de la Garerme later. He changed drastically in there. He kept saying that he needed to get out and he Signature:

341

Signature witnessed by:

SZTYBER-OMER

2010/11

4

1189 Form MG 11 (T) Page 5 of 7

341

Statemelÿt o

wanted to go home. One day hÿ said that he couldn't take it any more, and that h;_Vd had enough. The next day he disappeared and we were looking for him all over the place. As we were on the minibus going to Grouville School the following day we saw him

We didn't realise that

it was 493 at the time and didn't think it was a real person when we saw him 491

drove on and didn't stop the bus. We were told later that afternoon by 493

They said that he was accused of

wasn't responsible for

491

just

that it had been

the day before. I know he

because I had been with him all day. They used to always

threaten 493 with Borstal and he was frightened. 17. I didn't think

493 ould h

e wasn't a coward. It broke my heart. They told us . 493 was being abused in the home° He never put it into

words but he changed so much whilst there it was unreal, and I knew what was going on death greatly affected

91

493

.

18. In 1965 my brothers and I were taken for weekends to

house, which

must have been about seven or eight. I went with 233

was in

. We were taken for weekend visits at first and brought back to Haut de ia Oarenne. We would sometimes stay overnight and I hated it. They had their own

children

They would often scream and shout at us for even using the wrong toys. We would often get a slap. I used to dread going there and used to hide at Haut de la Garerme so they couldn't find me and make me go. I was always forced to go there. 19.

sed to expose her breasts to

hated going too.

and perform oral sex on him whenever

was away. He was about fifteen at the time and was

I woke up one night

when she was givin him a blow job in our room and I saw everything.

told me I would

get a hiding if I told anyone but also gave me five pounds to keep my mouth shut.

told me to

say nothing too.

20. I remember once I stole a bag of sixpences from confronted, but it was me. As punishment

house. I denied taking it when ame into my bedroom and she jumped onto

my chest. She pulled her skirt up and began jumping up and down on my face with her vagina in my face. This frightened me and I didn't know what to do. I got a hiding for that too. She hit me

Signature:

341

Signature witnessed by:

SZTYBER-OMER

2010/11

5

1190 341

Statement of:

Form MG1 !(T) Page 6 of 7

anything she could get her hands on, belts, sticks, canes, all sot-ts. S he most hit me on my still bear the scars on my

and i

to this day.

21. I remember one occasion bringing a newt home which escaped and went behind the cooker. I got one of the worst beating of my life for that.

continually hit me with a stick across the

until I couldn't get up. I crawled up the stairs and got into bed and I couldn't move for two days. She wouldn't even call the doctor. I kept running away after that belt around his fist and punch me in the face with the buckle

would wrap a once hit me with a

drum stick. I had touched it and she laced me with it around the head. I was nearly unconscious when she was finished. 22. I told THOMSON, head of Social Services that I had to get out of there but he wouldn't listen. He was childcare officer and he said that I was a liar and he didn't believe me. I told him everything that was happening. Amongst others t told Ian SMITH who was the head of Childrens Services at that time. He didn't want to know. I told another called COOMER who I think was a Childcare

Officer, and he wouldn't listen either. I told Miss THORNTON from Child Services who knew the well. Miss BYGRAVES was lovely when I told her and she said she was going to help me.

,

,

23. I was eventually stopped from staying with the

ecause I got so out of hand. My

behaviour worsened and I was too naughty for them to handle. I kept running away and when I was about fourteen years old they sent me to Basil Lodge, Clarendon Road, St Helier. 24. When t was older I started getting into serious trouble because my head was all over the place. I got into alcohol and drugs with led me being involved in crime. My experiences in childhood have left me scarred both physically and mentally, i have had to live with these memories which will never go away. I don't want my children or grandchildren to go through what I did. Someone has to be accountable.

25. I have seen the pictures of the underground rooms on the television with the bathtub in it.

TILBROOK,

491

nd

ould take me down to these rooms to administer their

beatings. It was underground and low and accessed from outside.

I

Signature:

341

Signature witnessed by:

SZTYBER-OMER

2010/11

6

1191 Statement of:

341

Form MG 11 (T) Page 7 of 7

26. Children often came and went from Haut de la Garenne. i remember a girl being there for about three months and !'m not sure if she got pregnant, but she disappeared, i knew the staff got rid of the babies, because I witnessed it. Not proper abortions, but something else. They would use a coat hanger and pull them out. I saw it happen at Hant de la Garenne in a basement room by the stairs near the kitchen. There was a long marble slab next to a sink with some type of washboard to the other side of it. I saw a girl sitting there who was about fifteen years old, bleeding profusely and screaming. I saw the baby covered in blood and it was alive, it was moving. I knew this was happening regularly as I saw it about four or five times during my time there. It was a f that was aborting these babies but I don't remember her name. She was old and she used to give us all cod liver oil and something black to swallow each day. She would have been in her forties or fifties. I never knew what happened to the babies after they were aborted.

27. I remember boys going to see

at Grouville School with problems with their

penises because they had sores, and she would treat them. It was common knowledge and we all laughed about it at the time. Thinking about it now they must have been sexually transmitted diseases.

28. As a result of so many beatings my

is ruined. I am going to need surgery in the future. I

have never had a normal relationship due to the fact of what happened to me. It is on my mind constantly and it has effected my relationships. I have taken it out on my partners and I regret that. 29° I have not spoken to the media at all in relation to this. I would not go to the press and would not give an interview if approached. 30. I am happy stand in court and give my evidence in front of people who offended against me and others in my childhood. I want just to be done and the truth to come out.

Signature:

341

Signature witnessed by:

SZTYBER-OMER

2010/11

7

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at

.

returned to

Ag a in 341 left the Home ~ returning earl y December . until he moved into a Guest House , arily.

341 at

moved into a flat

in , St . Helier .

Stayed with Mrs . .tempor -

St . Helier , then a Guest House

Magistrates Court - 2 years' Probation . left the Island . Will be staying at a Hostel in 341 Probationary Service undertaking supervision .

.

• • 1. ,

2

14434

Ref. Jersey- Haut de la Garenne

Page I of 24 10059 91

D

1 of 2

How old are you? How old are you by comparison with493

91

then? If493

was -

I was er...

D

When were you born? 1950. I was born 1950. So 493

91

- then he was fourteen so I would have been

sixteen.

D

OK

91

D

Yeah, I was about two years older. And were you there at the same time? Er, not in sixty-six, no, I'd left. I'd left there. I think I was there about 63-64 Right. Yeah. And of course 493 was there too. He was there as well, at the same time.

91

Yeah, yeah...

D

But you'd gone by then. And er... your parents - how many chil- or bothers were there,

D 91

D 91

or children? 91

, myself and 493

Erm. There was er... let's see ....

l-

and

D

Right

91

So there were s

D

And how many of you were in that home do you think? Just me and 493 Why's that then, why do you think you Erm, well I was sent there by the Royal Court

91

D 91

D 91 D

of us.

Right. Yeah. I was sent there because there was a gang of us who'd b

.

Oh right, OK...

So I was sent there by the Royal Court. But I think with M493 I think there was problems at home. D Right. That's what it sounds like really doesn't it? 91 Yeah. There was problems [at home] D And presumably.., there were problems at home - that's why you were off doing the 91

in the first place kind of thing. 91

Yeah, yeah .... Well we didn't have a very happy home life you know...

D

Right. Tell me a little bit about your Mum and Dad - what were they like? Well Mum was all right, but my Dad was a boozer. Used to come in sort of beat us up, beat my Mum up... wasn't a very happy life

91

D

Right

91

And of course [laughs] when they sentenced me to the Haut de la Garenne I thought: great - get away from this for a bit. I got [the] worse D

Bit of a reprieve... Erm... so your parents - so this is later, they'd gone to

- is

that later on that happened? 91 After he h

D

Right

9 We all went to Ir 1up to me -

D

9 1

well, not all of us. Myself, erm... D

who's the next one

Yeah - and M

my sister.

D Erm. But your parents - did they not go to Ir hile you were - because it seems to suggest that they were already in when this happened. When493 fis that - no?

91

D

No. they were over here.

Oh right, OK... that's interesting. Your Dad worked? He held down a job?

91

Oh yeah, yeah...

D

You were living on No - G

91

?

1

14435

Ref. Jersey- Haut de la Garenne

Page 2 of 24

D 91

D

91

D 91

D

91

OK. And that'd also be an area for families that didn't have lots of money and stuff? Yeah.

What were the - what kind of place were you living, was it a flat or a house? House. Three-bedroomed house.

Right. And your Dad kind of terrorised the house did he? He did, yeah. Definitely.

What kind of work did he do? He used to - early in the morning he used tot do the

D

Mm...

91

Until half past seven, quarter to eight, then he'd go off to the ??? where he was a

D

A what, sorry?

91

D 9 91 1D 91

OK. And er, you think he just drank at weekends or do you think he drank all the time? He drank all the time. Right. Yeah...

And your Mum couldn't sort of stand up to him and 91

D 91

D

91

No Did she drink as well or...? No. No... But she ended up

Did she?

Yeah. well what happened was, I was walking past there - I think this'd be seventy, seventy-two - and I was walking past and I see the Police going up. They were living in

D

{3.49} place at the time You'd left home by this time?

91

Yeah. Yeah. I was married. And erm, I went up there - she was divorcing him and he'd broken down the bedroom door and put a rope hanging from the light: go on you bastard, hang yourself - and he never got arrested. He'd never been in trouble with the

No. Er and er, I said to the Police well, you know, can't you take him away? And they said no, domestic like you know?

D 91

huh And the next morning erm, unfortunately, my Mum was dead

She was forty-seven

D

91

D

She was 47? Yeah.

91

And that's seventy-two? I think it was '72 yeah. 71 or 72.

D

91

D 91

D 91

D 91

Er. my Dad, he married again

really and he lived up 'til about.., late nineties Did he have any more kids? No, no. No...

What were your Mum and Dad's first names? Er. My Mum's name was

D 91

D 91 91

sorry.

But I always knew her as . And my Dad's name was Do you have any nice memories of your Dad? Erm. No. Not really. No, being honest, I can't say I have.

D

Mm... So it was a gang of kids

91

Yeah

91

From school or whatever? And you fell in together

Fell in together and started

at night

2

14436

Ref. Jersey- Haut de la Garenne

Page 3 of 24

D

Your parents didn't pay much attention to what you were up to?

D D

Your Dad was in the pub? Was there a particular pub he used to drink in? No. he just used to drink all over. And er So you nicked - what -

91

Yeah

91

No

91

D

After something in particular or just... Yeah. we had which is in Snowhill and we got caught after, walking down the street with a load of stuff. Yeah... D So you went to the Royal Court - it wasn't one of these parish hall enquiries then -

91

91

No, no

D

It was too big for that was it?

91

yeah, yeah.., it was Royal Court. And like I say I got sent to And was there a time limit? Was it for a period of time or...

D 91

D

I don't know. I can't remember what it was.

And had you ever heard of this place - was it kind of famous among the kids for, you

know, being-

91

D

Well I knew about it from 493 being there So he'd already been there by this time?

91

He was there, yeah.

D

So what year do you think this is now then?

91

I'd say sixty-four. 63 or 64

D

OK. And he was there. Because - you think - you don't -

91

I think it was the home life, something to do with the home life. For some reason I think, he wasn't liked. Er. I mean we weren't liked but - he always seemed to get the worse -

D

He copped it more?

91

Yeah. I don't know what it was. I don't know...

D Have you any memory of people coming to try and help you at home - like social services, anything like that? 91

No. No.

D

91

No. The only... [laughing] memory I have is the truant officer used to come

[D laughs] 91

The only person I remember

D

Really Used to be

91

[7.00]

91

D

Yeah...

So would other boys who were in Court with you, how many of you were in Court at the

time? 91

D 91

Quite a few of us Was there? Yeah. I think.., six, maybe seven.

D

Right. And did you all get sent up to -

91

No. Just two of us.

D

Who was the other one?

91

D 91

D

Right. Yeah...

And you thought: oh this is all right. Give me a bit of respite from home

and er...

91

Yeah.

D

And what was it like when you first went there, what were your kind of memories...? Well... my first day there I was taken into a room and er... told what a bad person I was and er .... told me they were going to clean me up - I was just bad news, you know?

91

D

Mm...

3

14437

Ref. Jersey- Haut de la Garenne

Page 4 of 24 91

And er... I was taken - and I was taken down to the cellar - And I was there for the weekend. I was stripped naked and chucked in the bath D Do you think that's the bath they've shown in the photograph?

91

I don't know. So long ago you know...

D

Sure. Christ. So... erm, they left you there the whole weekend?

D

91

On your own, or with your mate? Yeah. on my own. I was dragged there - pulled by the hair and ears, pulled along.

D

By [G491

9 1 D

Yeah

9 1

91

Yeah

{8.31}

So he was the person you first No - the first one I met was - I met both of them, Tilbrook and 491

. Tilbrook was

number one and he was

D And you reckon G 491 ame is - because I can't find his name anywhere, rve asked the Police if they can tell me anything about 491 but I don't know what's happened to him or

anything. Did they tell you anything about him?

91

D 91 D

91

D 91

D 91

No.

What was he like? A young bloke or Well it's hard to say Now. of course.

I suppose he would have been twenties.., he was a M ?

Yeah B Yeah. Bl

yeah.

D

That's quite unusual. So he wasn't from Jersey you think?

91

No no no. no .... he was the first

D

That's a nice welcome. Nice introduction

91

person I'd ever seen. Yeah.

yeah. nice man.

D So as he was - it was him who pulled you - and would be verbally - you know - being rude, being verbally abusive to you at the same time

91

Yeah. Punched, kicked and er... pulled my hair, ears...

D

Were you kind of stroppy - were you fighting or were you just -

91

D 91

D 91

D

Terrified Yeah I was terrified.

They would have brought you food and stuff? [he] brought me - used to bring me a sandwich in the morning.

Right

91

Sandwich and a glass of water

D

And that was it?

91

D

91

Yeah.

Nothing else - all day? No.

D No clothes. [10.00]

91

No.

So what did you do? In this 91

Cell

D

cellar? 91 It was erm.., there was an old sort of bedspread - sort of lay there terrified. It was dark. I don't ever remember any lights going on. used to have a torch D You had a torch? 91 No - he had a torch. D He had one 91

A

torch. Yeah ....

D

Did you spend a lot of time in that cellar?

91

Yeah. Yeah. Always seemed to be weekends. From the Friday. From the Friday 'Til the Sunday evening.

evening.

4

14438

Ref. Jersey- Haut de la Garenne

Page 5 of 24

D

You'd be locked up in there?

91

Yeah.

D

91

Yeah. And not only that, erm, I could hear screams coming from - close to me like

D

Really?

91

Yeah. it was quite horrendous. And did you ever find out what those screams were for?

D 91

I knew it was other boys - ill-treated, molested...

D

Did the boys - did you talk to - did you talk about it among yourselves?

91

Yeah, yeah...

[11.00]

D

What would people say? What language would they use and stuff? How would they

describe it? Do you remember? 91 It was like, fuckin' hell what's going on - you daren't say anything you know? D No sure 91 - the staff we were terrified. Terrified of everyone there you know... They seemed to... it was a fairly strict environment you know. couldn't trust anybody.

D

Tilbrook?

91

Yeah.

D 91

A - there was a that's right She was on the staff as well or she was involved? Yeah. she was on the staff.

D

491

D

And how many other staff - lots of other people? Or just a few? Quite a few but I don't remember them all. The only ones that stick out in my mind are

91

D 91 91

Tilbrook, 491

D 91

D

91

and er... two ladies...

and

.

Were they also No. they seemed to be nice people.

But they didn't do anything to stop

No. I think - they had to know what was going on. You know, when I was being dragged along and that, you know- people seen me you know...

D 91

Were you given lessons there? Did you have any schooling? No... no. still went to school

D

You left there to go to school?

91

Yeah And did you actually go?

91

Yeah.

D

The same school you'd been going to?

91

D 91

D 91

D

Yeah Which one was that? {D'Hautree ??}- it was ? boys So you'd go there in the morning, you'd come back Come back You never told the teachers - did the teachers say how's it going at the home or

anything like that? 91

Nah. Never mentioned. D Then in the evening what would happen? Typically - what would be a kind of typical so you'd get back from school.., and then what? 91 You had to do a lot of cleaning

D 91

right Get your uniform ready for the morning and basically have your tea and then.., that was

it more or less, day over...

5

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Page 6 of 24 D 91

And where did you sleep - you slept in big rooms? Dormitory, yeah. Dormitory. Ge491 ed to come along late at night with his torch and

he'd pick on some boys, interfere with them...

D 91

In the dormitory? Yeah...

D

And that would happen to you?

91

Yeah. Happened to quite a few people.

D

91

D

He'd touch you or erYeah. Yeah.

91

Would he make you touch him? Yeah. And er... in the cellar like he'd masturbate himself

D

In front of you?

91

Yeah, yeah .... he'd be touching you and masturbating. And then he would sort of change after he'd start kissing you and: you're the boy and all this nonsense

D 91

D

91

D 91

D 91

D 91

After it had happened? After he'd ejaculated? Yeah.

And would he do that in the dormitory as well? No. that was in the cellar Right. He'd touch you up in the dormitory Right. But he wouldn't masturbate himself

No Or get you to masturbate him? No.

D

Did he ever try to sodomise you?

91

Not to my memory.., no, not to my memory

D

Did he make you perform oral sex or did he No, nothing like that. Not that I can remember... And then how - when you say he would be nice to you after - can you kind of describe

91

D

that? What would he do?

91

He'd start kissing you.., giving you sort of compliments: You're a good boy and that.., a

nice boy and.., load of nonsense.

D Obviously. Did you learn much about him? Did you ever learn anything about where he'd come from or anything like that? No. 91

D 91

No...

Was he the only person who abused you

Yeah

D

- or would Tilbrook abuse you as well? 91 No it was - well Tilbrook was.., he'd er... I've had the cane and a whack off of him like but he never done D Didn't sexually abuse you 91

No.

D And... you would hear screams. Where would those screams be coming from? Other cellar rooms? 91 Close to me anyway.

D

Right

9 1 D 91

there must have been rooms next door or whatever, you know

D

And then he - so he would put you in the cellar Yeah - I always got the impression that when I heard the screams it was after he left

91

That would be absolutely terrifying yeah. Yeah, it was.

me, you know

D

Oh really

91

So I always had the impression it was him you know D So would he put you in the cellar and then come back to you to abuse you? Or would he take you there then abuse you 91 He'd abuse you straight away - and strip you, take all your clothes off and dunk you in the bath, dunk you under, pull you out, dry you off a bit and start -

6

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Page 7 of 24 D

Would he undress you himself or tell you to undress? Tell you to undress and other times he'd be pulling at your clothes D Did you ever - I mean not that you could have done anything - but did you ever try to stop or say no, this isn't right or 91 Loads of times

91

D

Right

91

- screaming and

D 91

really?

D

Yeah. loads of times. How many times do you think you were abused ...?

91

I'd say .... A dozen. Maybe more.

D 91

And would other boys tell you that they had been abused? Yeah

D

Yeah.

9 1

Yeah

D

And did you tell other boys as well, would you talk about it between you?

91

Yeah

D

And was the same thing happening to them?

91

D

Yeah And that was also 491

91

491

as well?

D

and er, Tilbrook There weren't girls there then were there?

91

Yeah

D

There were girls there? Yeah there were From fifteen or something Yeah. there were girls. I don't remember a lot of the girls. But there were girls there Do you think they were - were the screams of the girls or do you think they were all the

91

D 91

D boys 91

It was always boys that I heard.

D

And did you - what was your relationship like with 493

91

Yeah, yeah... Yeah.

D

And do you think he was getting abused?

91

D 91

D 91

- were you kind of close?

He was, yeah.

You knew that? Yeah, yeah.., he was. [Also] 491 What would he have said to you about it? what would he have talked Well he was.., he used to be a happy-go-lucky sort of person, you know

D

493

91

l?

D

Yeah. that was knocked out of him While he was there

91

Yeah. became quite sort of morbid, you know ...

D

Did he?

91

Well... he was terrified I suppose. Same as we all were. I mean I was happy-go-lucky when I went there. That soon changed. D And the other guy - what did you say ? 9 le 1 D Was he abused? 9 I don't know. Because he was older than me. He was in the ??? {18.00} 1I didn't see him very often D Was he in a different dormitory or something? 91 A different dormitory, yeah. and I never seen him that much. D How many boys do you think were in the dormitory you were in? 91

Cor ...... at a guess I'd say fourteen. Twelve. Something like that.

D

Right. And do you think all of those were abused?

91

I wouldn't say all of them but ... some of them were.

D

Do you have any sense of why he picked on some and not others?

91

No. No idea.

7

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Ref. Jersey- Haut de la Garenne

Page 8 of 24 D I often wonder whether er, people like that pick on - you know - people who are particularly vulnerable, who don't have parents who care 91 Yeah, that's right. It could be yeah. D I don't know 91 I never remember my parents coming up there or anyone visiting

D

No-one came to see you?

9 1

D

No Probation - or anything like that? Was there anything like that in them days?

91

I don't remember anybody.

D

Did you ever try to escape? No. I didn't, but M493 did.

91

D

Did he?

91

He ran away a few times yeah. D Right. Did he feel bad because he was your older brother and he couldn't sort of protect you? 91 Yeah... yeah. Used to feel terrible D Was he in the dormitory with you as well? 91 No, he wasn't in the same dormitory D And did you ever try to think - did you ever sort of fantasise about you know, killing this

bloke

91

D

[laughing] Yeah. many a time, yeah. You'd sort of imagine it in your mind?

91

Yeah.

D

What kind of things would you imagine...

91

I have to kill him And did you feel that you deserved it, did you feel he had some right to do it or did you

D

just think: this is wrong... No. It was mixed feelings, you know.., because it was drummed into me that I was a bad person

91

D

Yeah

91

That was drummed into me. So it was mixed feelings, you know? D And after he'd done that to you, would he leave you then, in the room or would he go back to the dormitory do you reckon? 91 He'd come down on the Sunday evening and just open up the door and er, OK, come on then, and go off as if nothing had happened. D And you'd have been there since? 91 I'll have been there since the Friday. Since the Friday evening D And why do you think you were singled out to be put in the cellar, or do you think other kids were put in the cellar? 91 Like I say, there were other D There were other rooms around? 91

-I heard other screams, you know

D

And you think that was also where people were on their own?

91

Yeah

D

And he never brought anyone else in to - to abuse you or anything like that?

91

D

No

D

And did you hear stories of other people coming in to hurt other people or abuse them I heard Tilbrook- Tilbrook's name mentioned loads of times. Really.

91

Yeah.

D

By other kids? Yeah The same kind of abuse? Or different types of things? Different types of things Can you say what types of things?

91

91

D 91

D 91

D 91

Well sodomising.., rape, I suppose

Anal rape basically. Yeah ....

8

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Ref. Jersey - Haut de la Garenne

Page 9 of 24

D

And he would have abused other boys?

91

Who - er

D

Tilbrook

91

D

Tilbrook, oh yeah. Not the same ones that491

91

Ah

was - that's what I meant -

D

You don't know I don't know. I couldn't say, like. I know- I was told he had anyway. D Were there boys who had breakdowns, who tried to kill themselves - anything like that in the time you were there - do you remember? 91 The only one I remember was 493 91

D

Yeah

91

Yeah

.....

D

So you think - you were there from sixty...? Sixty-three - it was either '63, '64 but how long I was there I'm not too sure. I'm not too sure how long I was there. D And what happened - do you remember being let out, or released or whatever

91

91

No, I don't, what happened, I don't-

D

You don't remember leaving there No. No. I think a lot of it I kind of block out you know?

9 1 D

yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure... Erm... and er, when you left 493

must have stayed

there

91

Yeah .... he was still there yeah.

D And you don't have any memories - so here it says that the family had gone to I your parents had gone to for your Dad to try and find work or something, you don't remember any of that? You think it's not true? 91 No. it's not right

D 91

Is that right No, they were.., we were all there when

D

493

,

we were all in Jersey

What do you remember of the sequence of events around.., can you say? I just remember the Police coming up and saying to my parents that he'd

91

D

Right

91

And er... it was some time after that that we went to

[22.50] D

Right. What do you remember about your parents' reaction to hearing that he'd

? 91

Er, my Mum couldn't believe it. erm. You know, she really couldn't believe he'd do that.., that's all I remember. And it was [just sad/aft she said?]

{23.15} She said ??? might have.., to take the

D

91

or something like that.

Really? Yeah. some remark

D

That's how people talk about - or used to talk about a lot. 91 Yeah, both being Catholics and you know it was against the church and that. but then again at the end of the day, he . D Yeah, that's right. That was her ? she would put it. 9 Yeah. So... as you can understand everything is mixed up in my head, you know. 1 D Yeah, of course. What was he like, 493 ? 91

Oh as I said, he was happy-go-lucky you know. but I always got the sort of impression, I don't know if I overheard it or what, but it seemed to me as though my Dad had had an affair with someone else, and 493

D

Oh right OK

91

That's the way it seemed to me anyway.

D

And that might explain why he was treated differently to the others

9

14443

Ref. Jersey- Haut de ta Garenne

Page 10 of 24 91

D 91

??

D

91

D

Yeah...yeah... I mean we were treated badly and [he] was treated worse.

By your Mum as well as your Dad or just by your Dad? More by More by my Dad, yeah. More by my Dad .... See I mean we were made to call him ?] {24.29} not to call him 493 for some weird reason.

Do you think that was a [cruel] thing? Yeah, it was. Yeah... and he was sort of like to be our slave and all this, you know

Really?

9 1D

Oh yeah. he had a terrible life. It couldn't be the other way round - that he was your Mum's child and not your Dad's would that make more sense?

91

D 91

D

Maybe. Maybe, see I'm not sure.., yeah...

He was younger, he was the youngest? He was the youngest boy, yeah. Can you write the names down and the ages - the different -

91

Er

D

Shall I do it

91

D

was the oldest. [writing] Yeah.

. How much older? Oh let's go through the names first

and then we can -

91

There was

D

And then a

91 91

And then , yeah. Where does she fit in? She's the youngest.

D

So... you were born i